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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

Psalm 146:3-7

3 Do not put your trust in princes, Nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish.

5 Happy is he who has the God of Jacob for his help, Whose hope is in the Lord his God,

6 Who made heaven and earth, The sea, and all that is in them; Who keeps truth forever,

7 Who executes justice for the oppressed, Who gives food to the hungry. The Lord gives freedom to the prisoners.

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Vengeance 2 points ago +2 / -0

What was the alternative? Would it have led to even more death?

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Vengeance 2 points ago +2 / -0

So many churches have been destroyed.. we must rebuild.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

I don't know what frustration you're picking up on coom brain, but I'm not the one saying:

"If you're someone who DOESN'T CELEBRATE BJs, I'd say there's something seriously wrong with YOU! Mainly...I'd say you've never got one. So you're hardly an expert on the subject...and it seems you're of the female variety that's never been properly serviced reciprocally. What a shame."

Yeah, definitely a coom brain. Maybe you got triggered because you're one of those degenerates OP was talking about?

Stop gooning and repent.

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Vengeance -1 points ago +2 / -3

You sound like those people in the Pride parades.

"What do you mean you don't celebrate butt sex!?"

Why can't you just celebrate it with your wife or girlfriend in private without broadcasting it to the world? Stop being a coom brain. Do young kids need to hear about this?

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Vengeance 3 points ago +3 / -0

Absolutely.. Rabbinic Judaism is a reactionary movement to Christianity that came centuries after Pentecost.. they hate everything about Christ.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbinic_Judaism

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

Ah yes but the problem with Sola Scriptura is, it's anti-Biblical and is an innovation from the 1500s by Martin Luther. With Sola Scriptura comes the claim of "The Invisible Church". Head on over to any search engine and you can find many arguments that shred Sola Scriptura.

2 Thessalonians 2:15

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Christ promised us a Church, not a Bible. Though Scripture is of utmost important, the Church is what Christ promised. The Church and the Bible are equal in authority. This is the promise made by Christ. In fact, the Church canonized the Bible, a fallible authority cannot generate an infallible one.

Matthew 16:18 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

So the passage from 2 Thessalonians was written by Paul to the church in Thessalonica. That Church which was instructed by Paul, just as all the other Churches established in the time of Christ, are Orthodox. They've never changed.

The position of Sola Scriptura leads to "prelest". All of the Solas are nonsense. These are inherited beliefs in the Western world that are often never questioned. Sola Scriptura leads to confusion and God is not the author of confusion, he is the Truth. The authoritative interpretation of Scripture comes from the Church which was established by Christ.

Dig into the Reformation. There were fair critiques of Roman Catholicism but Protestants threw far too much away and which is why Protestant denominations are falling fast to secularism. It leads to way too much confusion and error. From Sola Scriptura came Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, LGTBQ churches, Female clergy, unbiblical worship, etc.

I've never stated my position clearly but I am (Eastern) Orthodox. I disagree with the Roman Catholic church on doctrines like Purgatory, Indulgences, Papal Supremacy, and the over intellectualizing of the mystery of Christ.

I might be mistaken but I thought your position was that God the Father is the only God and that Christ is a created being and not God. Unitarian vs Trinitarian.

The problem arises from trying to understand the Trinity apart from the Church. The early Church Fathers agreed in Jesus' and the Spirits God essence.

St. Basil makes an irrefutable case using Scripture but there's no way I can share that amount of text here. The Cappadocian Fathers are the ones to study, they clear up the issues with razor sharp precision. I only shared earlier Church Fathers because it proves the point that the Triune God is not an innovation but is what the Early Christians believed. St. Iraneaus also clears up a lot of misconceptions early on in Against Heresies.

Endless amounts of videos on the topic:

https://youtu.be/DtkpwppTTls

https://youtu.be/rOF0T3Yq7gY

https://youtu.be/v6FcqnZ6MW0

https://youtu.be/Huf0J_zh5Zg

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

The Spanish Inquisition led to the creation of the Jesuits, which is crypto-Judaism. Many of the converts early on were Jewish and did not stop their kaballistic worship behind closed doors. This is why the Catholic Church advocates for ecumenism, when Pope Francis says Muslims and Christians worship the same God. The Roman Catholic Church has been infiltrated, they broke away from tradition which would have prevented this.

Sure here are two quotes from St. Ignatius (disciple of the Apostle John)

“[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

Here is St. Justin Martyrs defense of the Trinity

“We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein” (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151])

St. Iraneaus in Against Heresies

"For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, 'Let Us make man after Our image and likeness'

"Therefore the Father is Lord, and the Son is Lord, and the Father is God, and the Son is God; for He who is born of God is God."

Tertullian in Against Praxis

"We, however, as we indeed always have done... believe that there is one only God, but under the following dispensation, or as it is called, economy; that this one only God has also a Son, His Word, who proceeded from Himself, by whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. Him we believe to have been sent by the Father into the virgin, and to have been born of her—being both man and God, the Son of man and the Son of God... We believe also in the Holy Spirit, who has been sent by Christ from the Father as the Sanctifier and Comforter, as the Teacher of the truth... who proceeds from the Father and the Son."

Theophilus of Antioch

"In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom."

These are all 2nd century, predating any notion of the Roman Catholic Church. Ignatius of Antioch directly affirms Christ as God, which is an easy rebuke to Unitarian claims that early Christians were not Trinitarian.

Beyond the Church Fathers in the second century, like I mentioned previously, the Cappadocian Fathers offer the strongest rebuke to heresies by using Scripture.

St Basil - On the Holy Spirit

I know books aren't cheap and PDF copies are shiesty, but it's worth picking up a physical copy of the above text.

Beyond the actual historical claims + quotes from Scripture, the case for Jesus' Divinity is really case closed. We can go further though and examine the very lens which with we examine Scripture with, a meta observation.

You're using the doctrine of Sola Scriptura to analyze Scripture. Sola Scriptura is a non-sensical approach to reading Scripture since the Bible is not perspicuous. Meaning, the texts do not reveal themselves. This is why you have 100s of Protestant denominations all interpreting Scripture differently - not even being able to agree on core doctrine like the Eucharist. This should be self-evident if we're being logically consistent.

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Vengeance 9 points ago +9 / -0

American Christians are Zionists because in the 1900s, Scofield, a Zionist stooge, began printing Bibles that were partial to Jews. Historically Christians have never bent over backwards to Jews and often expelled them from functional societies.

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Vengeance 11 points ago +12 / -1

Biden cannot lead the country because it is a stolen office. The only righteous action he can take in his position is to reveal all the evil that has been hidden , step down, and await his sentencing before a jury of his peers.

Yet, for however much we hate these individuals..

Matthew 5:43-48

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?

48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

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Vengeance 5 points ago +5 / -0

I concur. I don't think it's a coincidence that Snopes of all sources recently updated this article:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/

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Vengeance 2 points ago +2 / -0

That's great to hear.

I would skip right to Ignatius of Antioch, disciple of John. He directly refers to Jesus Christ as God multiple times without any confusion.

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Vengeance 67 points ago +67 / -0

A prayer for the believers before the debate:

O Lord Jesus Christ, our God, King of kings and Lord of lords, we humbly come before You, seeking Your divine guidance and wisdom. We pray for Donald Trump as he engages in the debate tonight. Grant him the grace to speak truthfully, with clarity and conviction.

O Holy Spirit, fill his mind with Your wisdom and his heart with Your peace. Strengthen him to present his views with integrity and to uphold values that align with Your will. Help him to remain calm and composed, responding thoughtfully and respectfully to all questions and challenges.

We also pray for the moderator, that they may conduct the debate fairly and impartially. If there are moments of bias or unfairness, grant Donald Trump the wisdom and wit to overcome objections and to articulate his points effectively.

Above all, Lord, we seek Your will to be done in this matter, trusting in Your divine providence. Grant us the discernment to recognize Your hand at work and the faith to accept Your plans for our nation.

For You are holy, always, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

I hope you've been doing well.

I haven't read that book but have a copy of one that is very similar

https://www.amazon.com/Apostolic-Fathers-Translation-Lexham-Classics/dp/1683590643

The book you sent looks like a solid text, especially if it gives the texts to read separate from commentary. Any of these books will help to clarify the historicity in Church tradition.

Understanding of history and tradition is what helped solidify my faith. Apart from the historical stuff, you might find this text interesting.

https://www.amazon.com/Philokalia-Complete-Compiled-Nikodimos-Markarios/dp/0571130135

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia

It's a collection of writings from the saints of the Church with a focus on transforming our lives through prayer and communion with God. Very powerful.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

The free phone part is important. That's how they'll get deported.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

That looks like a summary of it, the full work is a lot longer but these are poorly formatted: https://www.elpenor.org/basil/holy-spirit.asp

This is the edition I recommend. There is a good chance you can find a PDF version of it. https://www.christianbook.com/on-the-holy-spirit/saint-basil-the-great/9780881418767/pd/418767 The chapters, formatting, and preface help understand the text and follow the explanation.

St. Gregory "On the Soul & the Resurrection" - approx 350 A.D

St. Athansius "On the Incarnation" - approx 315A.D

St. Iraneaus - Against Heresies - approx 150 A.D

St. Justin Martyr - 1st/2nd Apologies - 125 A.D

Didache/"The Teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the Twelve Apostles" - approx 80-100 A.D

The Epistles of Ignatius - approx 100 A.D

In Ignatius' Epistles he clearly and directly refers to Jesus as God. Who is Ignatius of Antioch? He was a direct disciple of John the Apostle. He was Martyred in Rome. Ignatius and the other Church Fathers present us historical evidence of the beliefs and practices of the Early Church and of Jesus' divinity. This is 200 years before the Council of Nicea which formally decreed the Trinity.

Yes that looks like a copy of Clements first Epistle. In it you'll see that the early Church tradition was being established and a deep worship of Christ.

This is an interesting discussion on Unitarian vs Trinitarian perspectives. There's tons of these that exist, if this is a topic you're really interested in it could be worth listening to in the background. https://youtu.be/u8jp73vNIAI

Good luck to you and God bless you brother/sister and may the Lord have mercy on us all.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

Sure, that's fair. Once you've gone through Church history you might come away with appreciation for it instead of criticizing it because "it is the traditions of men", when it is the teachings of the Church.

You can probably watch any number of Unitarian vs Trinitarian debates. The conclusion you'll realize is the Trinitarian view takes into account everything being said - 3 revealed as one - whereas Unitarian perspective has to deny specific parts of Scripture to reconcile their worldview. 1 Essence, 3 Hypostasis.

Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

The original agreed upon Scripture was the Septuagint. Martin Luther (please do research into Protestant founders and what they actually believed vs what's happened today) used the Masoretic texts. While there are and were genuine criticisms of Roman Catholicism, it is not reflective of all Apostolic churches. The Reformation threw the baby out with the bathwater. Interestingly enough, Martin Luther most likely wouldn't have started the Reformation if he had access to Epistles of Clement, which solidified Church doctrine.

When Jesus Christ came, he never said "I leave being a collection of books known as Scripture, henceforth these are your ONLY source of teaching". He promised and left us a Church. There weren't books readily available and the laity has no access to them either. This is why they used stained glass and icons to teach the laity. It wasn't until hundreds of years later that the Bible was canonized, various Churches at the time only has pieces of the canon.

Almost everything was an oral tradition in the early Church. We take for granted our technology and forget what it was actually like back then.

Good luck, you're genuine. I think if you steel man the Trinitarian position as hard as you can, you'll start to see why the Unitarian position doesn't make sense.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

Yes, by denying the Triune God you deny Christ, for if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, the Father, or the Son, you blaspheme them all since they are One. I can guarantee since you didn't reply to it, that you were a Protestant who fell into Gnostic heresies.

Matthew 23:9 is referring to the Pharisees. You continually show you are weak in the faith and have a poor understanding of the Church and Scripture.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel."

How do we uphold commandment 5 if we can't call our father, father?

When was Scripture canonized? You deny the Trinity because you think it's a Church invention, yet the Church Fathers before Nicea had a consensus which affirmed the Trinity.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 "So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter."

Do you see how your prideful nature stops you from even looking for answers as any earnest spiritual seeker or academic would? If this was about a conspiracy theory you'd be knee deep in it, clicking on random links and videos to find any bit of truth. It hasn't even dawned on you that your position is absurd and has already been debunked thousands of years ago.

If you have to ask who the Church Fathers are, then you are truly lost and without any guidance from the early leaders of the Church. Jesus Christ promised the Gates of Hades will NEVER prevail against his church, and here you are proclaiming Christ is a liar and his Church fell into a "Trinitarian heresy".

Start with St. Athansius and work your way up to the Cappadocian Fathers. If you want closer sources to the time of Christ, I suggest reading Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, or Polycarp of Smyrna - all who were in direct contact with the Apostles. There is also the Didache which fleshes out the authentic Christian worldview.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

You are NOT a Christian, you are a Gnostic. Jesus Christ is NOT just a prophet or Messiah, He is the Son of God who is One with his Father and the Holy Spirit. That is the definition of Christian. You are closer in belief to Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses. You deny the Trinity and you deny Christ who said "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven".

I take it you were a Protestant that fell into Gnosticism because of a weak faith. Your willful spirit makes you reject His Church and Her traditions. The Church Fathers already addressed all of the issues the blind sheep have raised in this thread.

Prayer is good, but make sure you're praying to Jesus. Pray for your soul and for forgiveness for denying the Lord and being a prideful individual who rejected Him. The Spirit will convict you only if you come with an open and pleading heart.

Prayers of an intellectual mean nothing to the Lord.

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Vengeance 1 point ago +1 / -0

Look, if you want to talk scripture, first go through the points I made. You're looking for every reason to deny Jesus, I hope you see that.

Jesus saying he existed before Abraham and specifically uses I AM, which is what the Jews at that time would have referred to as God, being itself.

Then in John 1:1 you say "Well, that's it right there" and you still deny.

John 10:33 - Do you not understand why Jesus became the Word Incarnate in Flesh? When you figure out why Jesus came into the flesh, it'll make sense to you why He was tempted and tortured and crucified. Why he said "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me" he was referring to Psalms 22.

Every other point you're making is absurd. We have manuscripts dating to the late 1st and early 2nd centuries proving that Scripture is unchanged. If you don't believe in Scripture, then I understand why you're skeptical of all the eyewitnesses calling Jesus God. I suppose you're also skeptical of all those who were Martyred for what they believed.

Honestly, it is so refreshing seeing all of your objections because it shows me how the Holy Spirit filled the early Church and protected it from heresy. Read St. Basils "On the Holy Spirit" - it addresses every single claim you've brought up.

If you're trying to debunk Christianity, first try and understand it outside of a Protestant or anti-Catholic perspective. Start with the Church Fathers, the Cappadocian Fathers were excellent in their rebukes of heresy. The Trinity is a very simple doctrine to understand, it is clear as day that Jesus Christ is God when reading the New Testament - not even atheists scholars like Bart Ehrman deny this.

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Vengeance 2 points ago +2 / -0

Yes, Jesus did. He proclaimed to be God many times.

Before Abraham was, I AM.

Where are you rookie researchers coming from??

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