Does anyone have any insight on “The book of Enoch”?
🗣️ DISCUSSION 💬
I recently read thru it and I’m trying to get a little more background and resources that can fill in some of the blanks. Thanks in advance!
Edit: holy smokes, thanks everyone! I will definitely be making another thread after I do some digging!
Differentiate between Enoch 1 and the others, 2 and 3.
There has been more validity accorded to Enoch 1 than the others. Enoch 1 is quoted in Scripture, and was accepted as "Scripture" by first century Essenes, I believe.
Info we have on unholy angels comes primarily from Enoch 1.
Yes, Enoch and Elijah were "translated" to heaven, without physical death.
interesting, I didn't know there were that many manuscripts.
do you have a translation that you prefer? I downloaded the Geneva Bible, and have enjoyed that so far. but I was raised Catholic, so new to Bible study...
Thanks, yes, I am familiar with the history.
The "chain of custody" was not broken within the Ethiopian Orthodox church as far as I know.
We seem to be a little near sighted at times, thinking that only the western RCC interpretations matter.
I hope this is all still helpful to MNisahellhole poster! I didn't really know how much detail was needed.
A reference to Dead Sea findings, and below that, recommendation for in depth "Commentary" on Enoch 1 by Dr. Michael S. Heiser if you prefer to read books.... he can probably have about the last word as far as I can tell!
(A semetic language specialist and prolific writer/speaker.) Can find him on Youtube, too. There are a number on this topic, but this one is about how the early church viewed Book of Enoch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og4TkHso4Egenter text
The Enoch Scroll The Enoch Scroll The Enoch Scroll Translation of the Enoch Scroll
Hanokh 4Q201(En ar[superscript]a) Parchment Copied ca. 200-150 B.C.E. Fragment A: height 17.5 cm (6 7/8 in.), length 17.5 cm (6 7/8 in.) Fragment B: height 6.4 cm (2 1/2 in.), length 6.9 cm (2 11/16 in.) Courtesy of the Israel Antiquities Authority (11)
One of the most important apocryphic works of the Second Temple Period is Enoch. According to the biblical narrative (Genesis 5:21-24), Enoch lived only 365 years (far less than the other patriarchs in the period before the Flood). Enoch "walked with God; then he was no more for God took him."
The original language of most of this work was, in all likelihood, Aramaic (an early Semitic language). Although the original version was lost in antiquity, portions of a Greek translation were discovered in Egypt and quotations were known from the Church Fathers. The discovery of the texts from Qumran Cave 4 has finally provided parts of the Aramaic original. In the fragment exhibited here, humankind is called on to observe how unchanging nature follows God's will.
Reference: Milik, J. T. The Books of Enoch: Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4. Oxford, 1976.
For anyone interested to be as discerning as possible about Enoch 1, I would suggest** "A Companion to the Book of Enoch: A Reader's Commentary, VOL. 1;" ** by Dr. Michael S. Heiser. He addresses multitude of details, including different translations, original languages and manuscripts sources, how the second Temple Period Jews received it, how the Early Church viewed it, and even the relationship between Enoch 1 and the Book of Giants found at Qumran.
Thank you. This is all great stuff!
It's been a while since I've read it but the book of Enoch is full of insights as to how the world evolved (so to speak), Nephilim, spiritual warfare, biblical cosmology and many more topics.
The book of Enoch was purposefully left out by the Roman Catholic church because it alluded to time travel and space beings. The church felt this was not something to be included because it would "confuse" the people...the books were hidden ....and for sauce here ya go "Eleven Aramaic-language fragments of the Book of Enoch were found in cave 4 of Qumran in 1948 and are in the care of the Israel Antiquities Authority. They were translated for and discussed by Józef Milik and Matthew Black in The Books of Enoch." They are still being discussed and disputed to this day....but actual writings are there...I make no claim on their content but I know they were written and excluded by MAN...not by God
Thank you....I'm a bit of a bible buff lol.
Was this mentioned by Q? Not being snarky, only trying to figure out the relevance here
Very tangential. When you go to mainstream theories of Satanism as Q describes, you get to some theologies that incorporate some of the more reliable information from Enoch. I was going to comment generally but u/Flowerpotz and u/LurkerWill have covered it better than I would have.
I haven't read it yet, but I do remember someone saying that Enoch and another
man went to Heaven without dying first, thought that was interesting....
That’s the part I want to dig into more. ??
me too, think those old stories will help explain what's going on.
thanks, and that sounds so interesting.
and exactly the kind of stuff they didn't talk about in church when I was growing up.
sad because I would have read the Bible more, but they made it so rigid and boring.
When Jesus died, many dead elders of Israel rose from their graves during the earthquake and were seen among the people after his own resurrection. Having risen from long death, they too may have bodily ascended to heaven. The 24 elders in heaven came from somewhere! You didn't learn that in Sunday school. Matthew 27:51-53:
wow, I had no idea about that. have a lot of catching up to do. thanks for sharing.
thanks for the great answers!
and I love how you're able to break apart how you learn best. a lot of people can't do that, so they have no idea how to teach themselves:(
I have ESword, and I've tried to read through the KJV, but I'm not a huge fan of it. looked at the Geneva Bible, and I liked what I read about the Puritans, but couldn't find many ways to search by verses, etc.
so I'll have to check out the NASB, I want accurate, and since it's a modern version it should be easier to find.
I'll also have to check out Joshua and Esther. sounds like it will give me the best value for my time. so much to read and catch up on. I have taken so many philosophy classes over the decades, but only one in the New Testament. feels like I missed a lot.
yep you explained it just fine:) it was my reply that was confused.
get typing too fast...
The guy in this video has way too much hand movement, but he touches on Enoch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zz8_MxcnzY
Thank you! ??
Chuck Missler is your guy
https://youtu.be/a810KOU_x_4
Something about Enoch was a time traveler that got stuck back in time.
I have it through audible -- probably not a good idea to listen vs. read and I'm not through the whole thing yet. If I didn't know it was a couple thousand years old, I'd swear it was written by someone from the scyfy channel.
From what I gathered so far..... Enoch who is the Grandfather or Great Grandfather of Noah, was "chosen" by GOD to come to GOD's "house" or heaven to learn. He was given the name "metatron" by GOD and the nickname "youth" because he was only 400 yrs old.
He was introduced to all of the archangels and told what their specific job description entailed.
He saw Earth from afar--- that's about all I know right now.
ya guy jumped back from the future. He didnt see it from afar he just came from afar in the future and knew what was coming.
Well there is a section that describes Enoch looking down on Earth for the first time since having left it and his perception of how beautiful the planet is.
Ya the aliens were fucking amused that a human figured out time travel. Maybe they had not done it yet.
So "god" or the aliens brought him up.
Inneresting-- I haven't gotten that far into it yet. It's a challenge to listen to it. I should've opted to read it instead.
Anyone that wants to read it:
https://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM
Gary Wayne, author of Genesis 6 Conspiracy has a lot of info, Bible based.
But, he doesn't have his own vid channel so have to deal with him being interviewed and some of the interviewers are loud and occasionally bombastic.
Here's one interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9uRUGNvHAg Genesis 6 Conspiracy Interview
Hotlinks are the same. Just trying out the linky gizmo.
Commenting so I can find this later- I would like to read and discuss!
Michael S Heiser is an expert and has lots of material about it, both scholarly and accessible, a lot of it freely available. His book Reversing Hermon is an excellent read. Check him out.
OP, don't be swayed by what the CoN decided to keep from view. They were men and men have agendas. Especially when those men are part of a theocracy which at that time they were. They were convened by and served the Roman Emperor Constantine. So maybe government was censoring as far back as AD 325.
Jude speaks of the Book of Enoch in Jude 1:14-15 (KJV):
And to amplify what you said earlier, it is the basic credibility of other historical-theological works of man, supported only for the fact of the immediate quote made by the human author in its utility as a general principle that God can use by allusion to the outside author. So when "All Cretans are liars" or "we are his offspring" are quoted by the Bible, they are not quoted to support the full context of their authors, but to support the general principles and to give God's context for them. (God has Paul state that the testimony of Epimenides "is true" and not a paradox as we play that it is.) So Enoch is useful for historical context but not for independent doctrine.
Rob skiba and zen garcia did a whole series where they read it and compared it to other texts. Its pretty good
NO! It shies away from what the Catholic Church says is the truth and Word of God. But one quick look will tell you the Catholics have continually acted against the will of God, and when confronted, their Pope will simply change the narrative of what they Catholic Church allows or finds acceptable.
Catholicism is the cult of Mary and idolatry, and the pope is a pedo loving heretic.
This. I grew up catholic. What if?
Enoch is older than Christianity. If you want to know why it's not part of canon, ask the rabbinical scholars. The Council of Nicaea probably didn't even know of its existence.
Not true. They debated it.
Are you sure? I was taught that it was a topic at the Synodicon of Vetus, along with a number of apocryphal texts, and the only thing really decided there was the inclusion of Revelations as canon.
Nicaea only affirmed the four Gospels truth as writ and voted the Book of Judith into the canon, but didn't exclude anything that was already accepted.
Edit, and adding that one of the sticking points was that Enoch was largely oral tradition at that point, and the copies stored by the Coptic church were probably compiled by Athnasius himself while in exile.
I'm totally not sure. And my idea of the debate came from my increasingly poor and muddled memory conflating Nicaea with an apparently previous debate which had one of the church fathers (I can't remember who) being ultimately the last defender as, one by one, other fathers were persuaded against its divine origin, and he, too, gave up on the notion. That was well before Nicaea, from what I can tell now. I was not familiar with the Synodicon of Vetus at all (so that should tell you of my level of knowledge on church history); however, looking it up, Wikipedia (and I know that's far from an infallible source) said some interesting things about Nicaea in its article about the S of V. :
Why? The council of Nicaea chose which books we should read. Why trust them?
It’s sad when you don’t know who to trust.
Off topic. Does the world seem different to you now? Much of these topics aren’t news to me, but now everything seems different. Even my previously apolitical wife is deep into this stuff and she agrees. It feels like we’re “breaking the simulation” is it just me?
That’s a lot of reading LOL. At this point it’s safe to say all the religions have been corrupted over the years. Which denomination teaches all 66 books?
https://youtu.be/T28TY79RLT8
excellent - thank you
Thank you!