Adjacently related, I stay on Facebook for mostly two reasons: (1) to private messaging a few friends & family, and, (2) to observe all of the woke people I personally know who are constantly parroting the propaganda .
The second helps re-assure me that I'm not in an echo chamber when reading conservative news or frequenting forums like this one (i.e., echo chambers that might highlight the lunacy of the Left and magnify it to look worse than reality). Given that > 10% of my Facebook friends have posted woke garbage, with a few prolific woke-ists, it's pretty easy to see that this stuff has infected a great many people I know, that the Leftist ideology is really prevalent, and that I'm not stuck in an echo chamber or captured by "right-wing propaganda".
To your question about what do you say, here's how I've approached similar conversations:
Provide the evidence. Drop some serious truth bombs. Be as brief & concise as you can, at least at first
If they try to swamp you with 3-5 counter arguments, pick their most powerful one, and demolish it.
If you know that you are right but cannot recall the specific facts needed on the spot, don't address that point fully yet, and circle back to it in a later conversation. This maintains your credibility & helps prevent re-enforcing a false narrative they have in their minds (that there is no merit to your claims & that you are stuck in "conservative propaganda")
There's probably a few other tactics that would work well, like the Socratic method.
Right. They're at a stage where they are really dug in and don't want to hear it.
In that case, you probably should start small, be concise, and just plant the seeds of doubt in their minds. Let it fester.
I wouldn't start with the vaccines, people have been drinking the "anti-vaxx people are hurting us all" kool-aid for a few years now (prior to COVID). I'm personally not anti-vaxx on all vaccines, just this experimental "vaccine" in particular, BUT, many people you try to convince likely won't make that distinction (at least if they're caught up in the propaganda/narratives).
On the mask front, you could go into the papers/science which shows their ineffectiveness, that might be too in the weeds for this person.
You might want a simpler, Tom Woods-like approach, of showing people COVID case/death plots, for different cities/states/countries, and ask, when did they implement their mask mandates? Don't give the name of the city for them to look it up right away. They'll most likely predict early on in the rise of the cases, and, their predictions will almost all be wrong. Thus showing, with empirical science, that the mask mandates have no effect on the rise/fall of cases. This doesn't explain why masks don't work, it just shows that the mandates don't have the "intended" effect of slowing the spread.
I put quotes around "intended" because I don't believe that is their true intention, much more cynical about their motivations (i.e., manipulation, division). That's probably too big of pill to swallow initially for them, though.
See here for a sample of Tom Woods' charts/graphs:
I gave up. Tried and tried. Wife is considering divorce claims I'm smarter than this. I said its been a year. So to me its all BS. The LIGHTS NEED TO GO OUT ON MSM. As an individual it is near impossible to break down that wall. Cognitibe Dissonance is a bitch. Now she wants vaccine. I give up. Keep feeling maybe she is right. And nothing is gonna happen. Just frustrating. And am running out of energy for this. Still 150k in school loans, been unemployed for over a year. This Nation was never supposed to be like this. Something needs to happen soon.
I made my own clear plastic mask. (I have to wear one for work, damn OSHA to hell)
I can breath just fine in it, and people can see me smile now.
All-and-all, that alone is enough to prove the masks do absolutely nothing to stop my breath from becoming your breath. In other words; at best they do nothing, at worst they cause serious sinus infections.
I've gotten some looks from people and all I can say is they look utterly defeated at the prospect that some jackass wearing a plastic bag over their mouth is happier than them.
Sometimes I go in stores wearing my motorcycle helmet. It's an open face helmet. If they make a fuss at the entry I flip the shield down. They don't like it either.
They just look very disheartened, like they've lost a beloved pet or something.
I also sometimes wear a headlamp with a UV light bulb in it aimed strategically so a spotlight appears on my crotch.
I guess the latter would definitely keep them from asking questions, come to think of it.
The more ridiculous I look, the faster people will wise up to what is in store if they permit the government to force them to wear whatever the hell Fauci wants on this particular clown day. Hazmat suits for everyone are just a few months away.
If I can get them to internalize "I'll never let them force me to wear that" now then it's more likely they will resist when told they have to wear a yellow star of David.
I’ve had many antivaxx friends. I have always vaccinated my kids- this is not a vaccine. I always said to my friends that I understand where they are coming from. They fear the vaccine more than the disease, I feared the disease more than the vaccine. I don’t feel that way anymore. I get to choose what is best for my well being. Ask them “is there zero risk of any reaction to this gene therapy?” “Can you tell me 100% that I will never have any issues with it in the future?” Well this virus for me in particular has a 99.997% chance of not affecting (edit- affect not effect) me at all. To me and my kids it’s pretty much like any other cold because yes coronaviruses are just colds and we rarely get colds. this one just happens to be deadly to a small small majority of the population. So go back to the risk, because the gene therapy has killed people, it has caused face paralysis, Steven Johnson syndrome. Are they telling you that you HAVE to risk your health and life on something that is NOT FDA approved to make others feel safe. We get to decide risk and benefit, not others, that is liberty and medical freedom.
Adjacently related, I stay on Facebook for mostly two reasons: (1) to private messaging a few friends & family, and, (2) to observe all of the woke people I personally know who are constantly parroting the propaganda .
The second helps re-assure me that I'm not in an echo chamber when reading conservative news or frequenting forums like this one (i.e., echo chambers that might highlight the lunacy of the Left and magnify it to look worse than reality). Given that > 10% of my Facebook friends have posted woke garbage, with a few prolific woke-ists, it's pretty easy to see that this stuff has infected a great many people I know, that the Leftist ideology is really prevalent, and that I'm not stuck in an echo chamber or captured by "right-wing propaganda".
To your question about what do you say, here's how I've approached similar conversations:
There's probably a few other tactics that would work well, like the Socratic method.
Right. They're at a stage where they are really dug in and don't want to hear it.
In that case, you probably should start small, be concise, and just plant the seeds of doubt in their minds. Let it fester.
I wouldn't start with the vaccines, people have been drinking the "anti-vaxx people are hurting us all" kool-aid for a few years now (prior to COVID). I'm personally not anti-vaxx on all vaccines, just this experimental "vaccine" in particular, BUT, many people you try to convince likely won't make that distinction (at least if they're caught up in the propaganda/narratives).
On the mask front, you could go into the papers/science which shows their ineffectiveness, that might be too in the weeds for this person.
You might want a simpler, Tom Woods-like approach, of showing people COVID case/death plots, for different cities/states/countries, and ask, when did they implement their mask mandates? Don't give the name of the city for them to look it up right away. They'll most likely predict early on in the rise of the cases, and, their predictions will almost all be wrong. Thus showing, with empirical science, that the mask mandates have no effect on the rise/fall of cases. This doesn't explain why masks don't work, it just shows that the mandates don't have the "intended" effect of slowing the spread.
I put quotes around "intended" because I don't believe that is their true intention, much more cynical about their motivations (i.e., manipulation, division). That's probably too big of pill to swallow initially for them, though.
See here for a sample of Tom Woods' charts/graphs:
https://tomwoods.lpages.co/covid-charts-cnn-forgot/
I gave up. Tried and tried. Wife is considering divorce claims I'm smarter than this. I said its been a year. So to me its all BS. The LIGHTS NEED TO GO OUT ON MSM. As an individual it is near impossible to break down that wall. Cognitibe Dissonance is a bitch. Now she wants vaccine. I give up. Keep feeling maybe she is right. And nothing is gonna happen. Just frustrating. And am running out of energy for this. Still 150k in school loans, been unemployed for over a year. This Nation was never supposed to be like this. Something needs to happen soon.
I made my own clear plastic mask. (I have to wear one for work, damn OSHA to hell)
I can breath just fine in it, and people can see me smile now.
All-and-all, that alone is enough to prove the masks do absolutely nothing to stop my breath from becoming your breath. In other words; at best they do nothing, at worst they cause serious sinus infections.
I've gotten some looks from people and all I can say is they look utterly defeated at the prospect that some jackass wearing a plastic bag over their mouth is happier than them.
Sometimes I go in stores wearing my motorcycle helmet. It's an open face helmet. If they make a fuss at the entry I flip the shield down. They don't like it either.
I've gotten no one to confront me on it thus far.
They just look very disheartened, like they've lost a beloved pet or something.
I also sometimes wear a headlamp with a UV light bulb in it aimed strategically so a spotlight appears on my crotch.
I guess the latter would definitely keep them from asking questions, come to think of it.
The more ridiculous I look, the faster people will wise up to what is in store if they permit the government to force them to wear whatever the hell Fauci wants on this particular clown day. Hazmat suits for everyone are just a few months away.
If I can get them to internalize "I'll never let them force me to wear that" now then it's more likely they will resist when told they have to wear a yellow star of David.
Cui bono.
Who would profit from an Anti-Vax, Anti-Mask propaganda? No one. Always follow the money and power/control/fear.
"Will see who is responding to the lawyer commercial asking about "did you take the covid 19 vaccine", cause it won't be me."
I’ve had many antivaxx friends. I have always vaccinated my kids- this is not a vaccine. I always said to my friends that I understand where they are coming from. They fear the vaccine more than the disease, I feared the disease more than the vaccine. I don’t feel that way anymore. I get to choose what is best for my well being. Ask them “is there zero risk of any reaction to this gene therapy?” “Can you tell me 100% that I will never have any issues with it in the future?” Well this virus for me in particular has a 99.997% chance of not affecting (edit- affect not effect) me at all. To me and my kids it’s pretty much like any other cold because yes coronaviruses are just colds and we rarely get colds. this one just happens to be deadly to a small small majority of the population. So go back to the risk, because the gene therapy has killed people, it has caused face paralysis, Steven Johnson syndrome. Are they telling you that you HAVE to risk your health and life on something that is NOT FDA approved to make others feel safe. We get to decide risk and benefit, not others, that is liberty and medical freedom.
Here's a hot anti-vaxx stance you can take:
https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy
I have narcolepsy. I got an H1N1 vaccine (not pandemrix)
My symptoms appeared after the vaccination.
Take it from me, don't let them get the vaccine. They will be asleep forever, literally.