I’m not religious but I’m a massive Trump and Q follower. I see lots Christians on the board, any other atheists around here?
How do you view the religious factor in the Q movement?
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Nice post. Wavering agnostic here (I don't like the word as it implies a lack of knowledge, but it's the best available and does describe some aspects). I enjoyed reading this- I've been learning a lot recently. I was never raised with faith at all and in fact would be ashamed to admit I wouldn't entertain the idea.
This changes with time and the more I learn about the world in general the more I can reconcile with the reasons religion (and particularly its lessons / laws) exists. It matters less to me the peoples involved than the message- the message was always the important part and people have tried to destroy it- all through history. That's what peaked my interest- I wanted to know why.
I'm gradually opening to the fact that something might have happened to me- the scripture people here quote that I used to skip over unread now holds my attention. I feel like I understand it when somebody uses it in context and explains it. I am slowly admitting to myself that there is something worth pursuing- in which capacity I'm still unsure. I'll stick with the historical / scientific interest for now, but my mind is very open to all things and will remain so.
Thanks fren. I'll continue for the moment on my slow path- I will pick up the Bible in its entirety at some point, not quite ready yet. It's been quite the climbdown from a previous life where I would have said regretfully unflattering things about faith. That kind of turnabout is quite a mental shock- still processing much of this as it is very unfamiliar. I'm gaining a slow enthusiasm for this, but it needs to be through a process of osmosis for me- a slow and less conscious absorbing works best for me to break down gradually the walls I have built (I am afraid they are/were considerable).
The hard part for me was to realize there is a God, and a Savior in Jesus Christ... but that doesn't always equate to what "religions" say and do. If you think of it from a perspective of the relationship you have with God, in your own mind and your life apart from other humans, you will see there is a God that is infallible, but humans create this fallible mentality because we will always try to relate to God as if he was human.
Once I was able to separate religion from a direct relationship with Christ, it felt as if that veil was lifted, I could see through the bs of pastors trying to build themselves up and churches making rules and laws and traditions that go against what the Holy Bible says.
I hope you get there! Good luck in your journey! Just always be honest with yourself and the true God will show Himself to you.
Thanks fren, appreciate your kindness.
Fren, all you have to do is to earnestly reach out. The Almighty does not turn away true seekers. It is baby steps and He is patient with those that are genuine. But, the catch is, you must go where He takes you. When man wants to run the show and do what is right in their own eyes, the Almighty will allow them to have their way - the way of religion. True faith is a relationship - He already knows us but we need to get to know Him. He speaks in a still small voice that will not yell over the noise of our own self dialog and that of others. Quiet yourself and listen for him to speak. Part of that relationship is getting to recognize His voice. I can only speak for myselfb but this journey of relationship has been life changing and precious. I pray you find the same.
God is good. I'm glad you are still here.
There were two different points in my response. I'm glad they are still with us is different than God is good. I understand the points you are trying to make because I too spent a lot of time questioning everything I had been taught about christianity and religion in general.
I was very close to commiting suicide (within minutes) about 10 years ago. I cried and prayed for God to help me and felt immediate peace and comfort come over me which I still have to this day. It's hard to explain but there is no way It wasn't a miracle. I was fucked up and then I wasn't. I pray now everyday and feel a deep personal relationship with God.
When I replied to Bernieisacuck, it's because I know what he or she is talking about.
Everyone has their own journey. There were many years that I thought God was not listening or that God was not real. I understand why you question it.
How do you know God saved you, and that you didn't recover naturally? What about the 1,000s of other people also on their deathbeds who don't make it, despite also calling for his salvation, equally vocally? Is God still good despite letting those people die?
Sounds like He has been trying to get your attention for some time. Glad you finally listened. He must have some big things for you to do.
Sometimes it take a brush with our own mortality to realize that there is something much larger than ourselves and the world we have made for ourselves. Welcome to the family my fren. God bless you.
I will politely recommend this very approachable and intellectual series of doodles that illustrates one of CS Lewis’ books:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9boiLqIabFhrqabptq3ThGdwNanr65xU
God bless :)
what's wrong with admitting you don't know?
I do admit I do not know. One cannot 'know'. I believe the idea is faith, nothing is wrong with not knowing- in fact, if someone claimed absolute knowledge of this I would react with immediate suspicion.
then why reject the term agnostic? those who claim agnosticism generally aren't those who claim to have faith as well. those who have faith have it for a reason. you dont know how you will be provided for, but you know that you will be,'. so faith is not agnosticism, but rather knowledge. agnostics are still wondering whether they can trust the universe. agnostic faith is saying "oh well, whatever, couldn't be much worse, might as well continue" and that is not faith.
source: have identified with every end of the spectrum, from angry atheist to agnostic to angry theist.
Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
My issue is with nomenclature, not knowledge. It is that word implies that this is not and cannot be known- I reject that notion because 'gnosis' is the general foundation on which I build the rest of my life- that is why I cannot commit fully to the idea of purely faith. I come at this from an evidentiary standpoint and am in the process of accumulating enough evidence to make an informed decision to justify a faith (faith with eyes, not blind faith).
This does not make one without knowledge, nor does it give one a platform with which to make a judgement in full. Applying label words that don't fully sum up a persons state of mind (for me at least) is to be discouraged. Can I not reject agnosticism, atheism and anger and work on faith independently of these destructive titles?
It's best to not be angry about it, regardless of where you end up. I've found a great deal more peace in accepting that there isn't anything pulling the strings of the universe than I ever did believing that there was someone behind it all, for good or ill.
Faith is stepping out and putting action to circumstances based upon the confidence that even though I do not have all the answers I know that someone greater than myself has my back and is guiding my steps. Faith is not having all the answers, but at the same time, being okay with that fact and still moving forward. This is the walk of faith. Those who do not experience this journey for themselves have no measure to compare it with and therefore cannot understand it. I pray you find it.
I have a lot more respect for agnostics than athiests. When you look into the difference between the two it becomes apparent that athiesm is itself a belief system, namely that no higher power exists, a hypothesis that cannot be proven to be true, not on a definitive nor a personal level.
Agnostics aren’t contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, and I find it hard to take issue with someone who just says “I don’t know”. Because you guys are at least open to the possibilities. It’s a very scientific mindset, and that attitude is good for a multitude of practical purposes.
And while it can be nice to not risk being wrong, I think it takes a certain kind of courage to say that you’re willing to “know” something that you’re not able to definitively prove to other people. But we’re all capable of it. Not gonna pester you about it, just gonna say that I highly recommend giving it a(nother?) shot. Maybe while you’re reading, like you mentioned you would in the other comment, try to keep a mental ear open, see if anything jumps out at you.
If you want proof, you’ll be able to find it for yourself. “How many coincidences before mathematically impossible?”
Exactly. I'm late to the party with much of this, but treat it all with the same scientific method (avoiding mainstream 'psy-ence' helps) and am gradually piecing it all together- Qincidences are building all over... It does help with people being gentle with it- everybody here has been quietly encouraging without force. It's nice, encourages people to find out for themselves. The scientific stuff is really helpful to me- I love to hear of the early discoveries (that we are allowed to see after censorship), it brings religious history to life.
Atheism isn't a belief system, it's the lack of belief in God or a higher power. It's the absence of belief.
I think most people who label themselves as atheists are really agnostics though. If somehow actual evidence of God was found, most "atheists" would switch to the other side and become believers, only real hardcore atheists would continue to deny the evidence in front of them.
Everyone has a belief system. It is hardwired within us. It is just that not everyone puts their faith in the same thing. Some believe in humanity, some science, some in God. Without faith in something, whether it is in our own efforts, efforts by someone else, or in God, we would be frozen to inaction. Everyone has a god to believe in - it is just that everyone defines that god differently. Therefore, Atheism is a belief system - it is just not a belief in God.
This has been a great thread. Thanks.