So...a little backstory. I was raised Mormon. I'm not anymore. I stopped attending about 12 years ago. I'm not sure what I would call myself now. I think agnostic is probably a fair enough label. I'm not convinced that God and the Devil are real. I'm open to the possibility of it, but at this point I'm just not convinced. I tend to think of God and Satan as anthropomorphized/personified notions of good and evil. To me, they're ideas, but powerful ones (but I admit, if Satan were real, that might be exactly what he'd want me to think).
For a long time though, whether I thought God and Satan were real or not, I never believed that there were actual devil worshippers. To me it sounded like a silly Christian boogeyman. I figured you either believed in God or you didn't. I'd never seen or heard of any churches with his name on them (until recently), I'd never met anybody claiming to worship the devil, and I figured that if I ever did, they would probably just be doing so to seem edgy, get attention, or troll their Christian friends or relatives.
I'm no longer under that impression. It's become clear to me now that there are in fact many people out there who (secretly) worship Satan, or at least the idea of him, and I think those people are very, very dangerous. Because they'll never tell you what they really believe. Because that's part of the deal they make when they join the club. They'll tell you anything except the truth. Why? Because they'll die if they don't. It's all part of the deal. This movie that someone posted the other day sealed it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7G5CKX0je0
They are, who Jesus said were "wolves in sheep's clothing." And we now know that they've been around thousands of years before Jesus was even born.
I know this won't be a popular take, but in my opinion, Mormonism is a pretty damn good religion all in all. As the refrain goes, Mormons are by and large God-fearing people who WANT to be good people and TRY to be good people. I live in Utah and I love it. It's basically the American paradise that I hear many of you feel you've lost wherever you happen to live.
We're pretty racially and ethnically homogenous. Violent crime is rare. Everyone knows their neighbors. The women are beautiful. Unemployment is always low. The "homeless" (really just drug addicts) population is very small compared to most places. It's great. And I know for a fact that much of that can be attributed to the prevalence of the Mormon Church in this area.
It's also great if you're an Exmormon, like myself, because nobody appreciates a party quite like someone who couldn't attend any (at least with alcohol) for the first 20 some odd years of their life, and nobody quite understands what it's like to leave Mormonism like a fellow Exmormon, so I really do love it here.
Anyway, where Mormons tend to fall short, in my opinion--and this seems to be the case with any organized religion that I've seen in person--is that they CAN get a little too hyper-focused on keeping the "rules" to the letter at the expense of basic human compassion. They often come off as pharisaical and judgy to other members who are less concerned about strict adherence (it's not uncommon for strict Mormon parents to alienate their "wayward" children, making them feel like their love is conditional--and sometimes it is) and fake to outsiders, who sense that their friendships with them are invariably impacted by their secret (or not-so-secret) desire to see them converted at some point ("every member a missionary" is a common refrain in Mormonism).
The idea that they're the one and only true church of God and Jesus Christ also puts a bad taste in the mouths of other Christians, who tend to view the Book of Mormon as heretical, their founder, a false prophet, and the rituals they perform in their Temples a bit too culty for their liking (many active members would also agree with that last bit--if my dad hadn't been there with me the first time I went through it I probably would have walked right out).
And while I know that modern Christians love to say that Mormons aren't Christians--that they believe in a different Christ--and while I understand their rationale for saying that, which seems largely rooted in a very literal, dogmatical reading of Paul's take on the Gospel specifically (in my opinion at the expense of all other takes), and while at one time I may have been tempted to use that same argument myself since I wouldn't mind if a few more of my family and friends would join me outside of Mormonism (man, I'd love to have a beer with my dad someday), I really can't in good conscience agree with that take. The rank and file Mormons, without any question (I can't speak for those at the tippy top though) believe in Jesus Christ. The same one from the New Testament that you believe in. End of story. Don't try to argue with me on that. It's not even the point of this post--which I promise I'll get to soon.
So again, while I'm personally very convinced at this point that The Book of Mormon is a work of fiction (as evidenced by anachronisms found throughout the book, as well as programs that have scanned the text and compared it with that of other books Joseph Smith would have had access to back in 1830, showing too many correlations to not be considered source texts--as is always the case with fictional works, among other things) I still find the Book of Mormon satisfying, inspiring, and at times, eerily prophetic.
For those who don't know, in the book there are two main groups of people stemming from one Jewish family who believed in Christ long before his coming thanks to visions and dreams from God. As the story goes (and I do consider it just a story, so lay off) this family left Jerusalem around 600 BC, right before the Babylonians invaded Israel and carried everyone captive back to Babylon for the next 70 years, and traveled by land and by sea all the way to the Americas. Their "land of promise."
Once they arrived, the group that followed and/or descended from Lehi's son Nephi were called Nephites. Those who followed and/or descended from his son Laman, Lamanites. Nephi is generally depicted as "the good son." He believed his father to be a real prophet receiving real instructions from God, which he determined by praying and receiving his own vision from God, and thus, happily followed his father out into the desert without complaint and on a trek that eventually led them to the American continent (his brothers Laman and Lemuel were not so convinced, complained the whole way there, and they went their separate ways shortly after arriving).
But whether it's true or not, the book is super interesting when you take into consideration the fact that Joseph Smith was rumored to have been a 33rd degree Freemason (the ceremonies in Mormon temples being likely the chief evidence of that, but also on the day he died, as he was falling from the jail window where he had just been shot, he was also heard screaming what many believe was the first portion of a Masonic cry for help that the Freemasons were supposedly bound by with an oath. He reportedly yelled "My Lord, my God!" as he died. The Masonic cry for help is "My Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?")
But more interesting than the temple ceremonies, within the book, which is supposed to be a condensed version of nearly 1,000 years of ancient American history, the character named Mormon apparently finds it important enough to tell us a story of a secret society that sprung up in ancient America that was founded by Satan worshippers, or rather, by Satan himself, appearing to those with lofty dreams of fame and fortune, teaching them how to lie to get what they want, and how to murder, and steal, and subvert and bring down entire nations without getting caught or punished.
In the story, their existence first became known to the Nephites when a man named Kishkumen and his fellow "robber" Gadianton accidentally made their plans to murder and supplant their chief judge known to someone they thought was part of their club but was actually a double agent (he apparently knew some of their secret signs which managed to fool Kishkumen). He killed Kishkumen, but Gadianton got word and went into hiding. They were thenceforth dubbed "The Gadianton Robbers." Here's what Mormon says about them:
But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with that band of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their stealings. And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant...And whosoever of those who belonged to their band should reveal unto the world of their wickedness and their abominations, should be tried, not according to the laws of their country, but according to the laws of their wickedness, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen. Now behold...these secret oaths and covenants...were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit—Yea, that same being who did plot with Cain, that if he would murder his brother Abel it should not be known unto the world...and he has brought it forth from the beginning of man even down unto this time.
If that doesn't give you chills, given what we know today, you might wanna check your pulse. Cause that right there...that IS the cabal that we're dealing with today. They may go by different names, but the goal, the methods, and the source, are the same.
So, I find it very interesting that Joseph Smith chose to include this in his book and pass it off as an historical record.
It reminds me of a man I learned about in college as an English major named Geoffrey of Monmouth. He died in 1155 AD. Before his death he published a book in Latin titled De gestis Britonum or Historia Regum Britanniae (The History of the Kings of Britain). This is where we find the original stories of King Arthur.
For several hundred years it was believed that the stories in the book were true. He claimed in his dedication that the book was a translation of an "ancient book in the British language that told in orderly fashion the deeds of all the kings of Britain," given to him by Walter, Archdeacon of Oxford, but modern historians have dismissed this claim. In it, he traces the lineage of the monarchy and the people present in Britain at the time back to Brutus of Troy, who was the son of Aeneas and the notoriously beautiful Greek Goddess, Aphrodite.
It's believed by some that his goal in writing this book, and passing it off as history, when he likely knew it wasn't, was more than simple fame and fortune (after all, he was very old by the time it was published, and the printing press had yet to be invented, so it would have been hard to capitalize on that) but rather, it was his genuine attempt to inspire his nation to become something more than what they were, driven by the belief that they were descended from beautiful gods and mighty, noble, well-educated warriors, who had traveled to a land set apart for the settlement of fair-skinned angels (England literally means "angel land").
Joseph Smith, the son of two school teachers, likely had a copy of that book growing up, and was likely aware of the story behind it. Could the Book of Mormon have been that kind of a lie? Was the story he told about its origin what he viewed at the time as "necessary disinformation?" Could he have been hoping to inspire people, and maybe, warn the world about the Freemasons and their true beliefs while maintaining some semblance of deniability?
I don't know, but it begs the question, why did he use Freemason rituals in his temples in the first place? And if he was going to use them, why did he change them so much? Is it possible that he thought that the only way to fight a vast, evil secret society was by creating a good one that used similar methods but with a different aim?
It bears mentioning that much ill has been written about Joseph Smith throughout history. He was rumored to have been a secret polygamist. It's well-documented, but in light of what was in the book, and what we know about this vast secret society today, which includes their grip on the media, I'm starting to wonder how much I can really believe about what's been said and documented about him.
It's funny, one reason he's been maligned by history is for burning down a local printing press he claimed was printing lies about him (mainly about the polygamy thing). Was he a dictatorial philanderer trying to silence dissent and keep his sins hidden from the world...or is it possible that a greater plot to destroy him, his reputation, and his work was afoot, because of what he revealed about the Freemasons, and in his desperation, saw no other recourse than to burn down a seditious and libelous fake news outlet?
Could Joseph Smith have simply been another victim of fake news, the way we've seen with Donald Trump today? Do we really think this ancient Satanic cabal that has been secretly running humanity behind the scenes for millenia only recently realized the power of the press? Is it impossible to think that maybe, just maybe, they've been using that tool, and the good faith and naivety of honest Christians as a weapon against them long before the creation of CNN and Fox News?
Is the Book of Mormon really an ancient record of an ancient American civilization, revealed to Joseph Smith by an angel named Moroni, and translated into English by the gift and power of God? I don't think so.
But one thing is absolutely certain: there exist among us, and often above us, a secret society of people who believe in God just as strongly as you and I do, but who love darkness more than light, and see Jesus Christ and his followers as their mortal enemy. We know this now.
And Joseph Smith laid it all out for the world to see way back in 1830.
Make of that whatever you will.
My take on Joseph Smith is that he tried to make his own Secret Society using Mormonism as its Front.
Whether or not he did it to reveal the esoteric and whether or not he had an honest intent is open for debate.
He's fated to fall in line with the likes of L. Ron Hubbard, who made Scientology.
I doubt Smith had the same motive as Hubbard, but his approach is very similar.
90% of all organizations have started by someone who said "They just won't listen to me! I can do it better, so I'll just make my own!"
For better or worse, I suspect Joseph Smith was no different.
The purpose of mormonism is to deny the deity of Christ. Mormon Salvation is by works, not by grace. It is polytheistic whereas christianity is monotheistic. Polygamy is at the core of it's belief system. Man may become a god, and have multiple wives etc.... crazy stuff.. It creates a counterfeit christian. They act christian, look christian, and likely out christian many christians in actions.
I left it 30+ years ago in my mid thirties after researching and trying to defend it against the criticism of people like Walter Martin (Kingdom of the Cults) and Gerald and Sandra Tanner (Mormonism, Shadow or Reality).
With the information available on the internet today, there is little reason to remain faithful to the LDS church other than if one enjoys the culture which can be enticing. If you are raised in the church then perhaps you have more of an excuse of remaining in the church. Brigham Young is 4 greats and a grandfather to me, thru his 17'th wife, Harriet Barney.
For a good read on what it was like for the early mormons as they tracked westward may I suggest The Hoth Diary. I was fortunate, as I was drawn to the Bible as the Word of God and became a believer as I left the mormon church.
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/hothdiary_main.htm
It's...it's like you didn't even read my post. I appreciate you proving my point though. If you read my post you might know what point I'm referring to.
Oh we read it, and I would agree that Mormons do not believe in the same Jesus from the New Testament, just like Jehovah’s witnesses do not believe in the same Jesus. Jesus is the Christ, the anointed one, begotten and not created, as all things were created by Him and through Him, the second person of the trinity, being fully man and fully divine, who died and arose on the third day, who ascended into Heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father, and will return again.
The Westminster confession of faith states: CHAPTER 2 Of God, and of the Holy Trinity There is but one only living and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute, working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will, for His own glory, most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him; and withal most just and terrible in His judgments; hating all sin; and who will by no means clear the guilty. God hath all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto Himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which He hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting His own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; He is the alone foundation of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom, are all things; and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever Himself pleaseth. In His sight all things are open and manifest; His knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature; so as nothing is to Him contingent or uncertain. He is most holy in all His counsels, in all His works, and in all His commands. To Him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience He is pleased to require of them. In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
I'm familiar with the Westminster confession on faith and the definition of Christianity that you're using. I just don't personally care or buy it. I'm not sure why, after reading my post, you still feel this need to say this stuff but ok. You do you, buddy. I'll keep on thinking what I think about Mormons.
Ex Mormon here.. I too wonder the same things you wonder. I study the occult. ( Which is just the Hebrew word for hidden). But I think Joseph Smith was dropping some knowledge especially about the robbers. Excellent post by the way. No way is the book of Mormon factual. But it's a good story.
I believe Sidney Rigdon stole the manuscript from a print shop and shared it with Joe Smith who was into occult activities at the time. If I recall correctly it was written by a man named Soloman Spalding in 17th century elizabethan style english. Something for those who are interested to research.
I'm not convinced of that narrative personally. The Spalding theory hasn't really held up to scrutiny over time. For anyone who has read actual sermons and teachings of Joseph Smith, the guy knew his shit. He was very convincing. And if you go back to that time period when books were practically all they had to entertain themselves, it makes sense why there were so many good writers back then. I'm open to the idea that Joseph Smith had help writing it, and Rigdon and Martin Harris may have been co-authors in that respect, but there's no question it was fictional. It has all the hallmarks of fiction. Their sources were obvious: The Late War, the Journey of the Hebrews, the Koran, the Bible (obviously), just to name a few. You can actually find whole passages and even whole stories taken from those books and changed ever so slightly to make it seem original. All fiction writers do that. It's half of what we did as English majors at BYU--study source material. Fun fact, the entire story about Helaman's "strippling warriors" is taken right out of The Late War (which was either a story about the Revolutionary War, or the War of 1812, I forget. Regardless, it was standard reading for school children at that time, and Joseph's parents were both school teachers).
There is no book on earth that describes the pattern regarding what’s happening to our world right now better than The Book of Mormon. I know that pisses people off, but it’s factually correct.
As for the church, meh. Believe what you want… another fact is that their leadership has been and is part of all the secret societies you really want to avoid. So it’s a mess, as is everything else.
I disagree. It is a work of fiction, and a poor one at that.
It's definitely a work of fiction. I disagree that it's a poor one though. It absolutely describes the pride cycle we see in this world to a T. And the description on the cabal, I can see why Joseph would want people to think the book was real. Either way, I don't care. The book inspires me, and I read a lot of books. Nothing has the ability to make me ponder my attitudes like First Nephi. Great way to get you in the right frame of mind to have an attitude of gratitude and patience imo.
The pride cycle, amirite? Seriously it depicts it all so well. I don't care if it's true or not. I was an english major. I hold fiction in the highest regard. To me, the Book of Mormon is true in the only ways that actually matter.
Pride cycle, secret combinations, human nature, potential solutions to the human dilemma.
I agree… whether it’s “true” or not is irrelevant. It’s TRUE in the most meaningful sense of the word.
Exactly. I feel the same way about God. Jordan Peterson puts it beautifully. He doesn't know if God really exists or not, but he prefers to live his life as if he does, because there's no question that frequent contemplation of the greatest good a person could aspire to be can only make you a better person. He also talks about how his wife is starting to go to church, and how important he sees that activity, where a bunch of people with shared ideals get together to contemplate their relationship with God, study the teachings of Jesus, and just check in and connect with and support one another. We're social creatures so we need stuff like that in our lives. I don't care if God is real or not. The idea of Him is there and for me, that's enough. If He turns out to be a real being and that becomes obvious to me someday literally nothing would change for me. It would be little more than an "Oh. Cool." moment and nothing more.
Wow, quite a post, lot to read and digest. I only got about half way through it when I concluded my 2nd thought on it.
1st, I wonder this my self, how many God fearing people actually believe in Satan, or that there's a Devil? For certainly if they believe there is, then logically there must be people praising & worshipping him, and further, these same people would have ill will for Gods team.
2nd, I don't trust any religion, God is Holy, religion is mans interpretation. Stick with God, stay away from religions. With that being my belief, it's why I didn't read the entire post. Although of all the things I've heard about Mormonism, you do seem to cast some positive light on them, which is the only I can recall.
So I pose this, if you believe there is a Devil/Satan and he has followers/worshippers, isn't it logical to conclude there is a God?
God bless friend, WWG1WGA
More people are converted to the reality of God by the recognition of evil than the recognition of good. It’s a weird “feature” of human nature.
We're an odd species, that's for sure.
The reason I’m a Christian stems from a simple observation. Human beings, as a species, are irretrievably broken. If there is no Christ, there is only one logical end for our species, based on the available evidence (in my opinion): self destruction.
Christianity offers a plausible alternative. Does it have weird beliefs and a strange set of cultures that have grown from it? Yep. But logically it could work, if the conditions are met. So here I stand, and here I’ll die.
Yep, all of us are broken, looking to fill a void by one means or another. We all have some form of an "addiction".
I don't believe the earth as it is today has evolved organically, that life sprung from more or less pond scum and has developed into the complex multiple subsystem beings we find ourselves in and surrounded by.
Religions have been around as long as man, many absorb symbols and traditions from previous religions they replace. I think in origin, they all stem from God and through man's interpretations have sprouted the various religions.
So while God may not be exactly as presented in Christianity, I do believe God is our Heavenly Father, our creator.
I'm not sure I agree with that take, personally. I mean, the idea that we're all fallen and in need of a Savior in the first place is a Christian notion itself. Take the Bible out of the zeitgeist and what's to make people think there's anything wrong with them in the first place? The story of Adam and Eve's fall is the whole basis for the need for a Savior. Kind of like offering the cure to a psychological disease that you gave someone in the first place.
I like what Don Miguel Ruiz says about this topic in his book "The Voice of Knowledge." If you read the story of Adam and Even as purely allegorical (which I do), then it can be argued that the forbidden fruit that the serpent convinced Eve to partake of was the worldly idea that there was something wrong with her. That she should be ashamed of her nakedness and felt uncomfortable being in God's presence without covering up. It was this knowledge, after all, that caused them to cover up when God showed up in the garden the next time. The garden, representative of heaven, was no place for ideas of that kind. There was only room for perfection, and children of God know their perfection. Their fall was a psychological one. The fruit they ate of was the idea that they were imperfect. Ironically it's the story of Adam and Even, read literally, that proliferates that idea today.
I also find it interesting that Christ said "According to your faith be it done unto you" and "be ye therefore perfect, even as thy Father, which is in Heaven, is perfect." How is that possible? Apparently, according to Christ, through faith. That right there "saves" you from the "fall" of Adam and Eve--the idea of imperfection.
I compare it to roses. Is a rose with one thorn more or less perfect than one with two? God created them both, so who are you to say one is more perfect than another? Perfection, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. It's a subjective term. So who are we to say we or any other human being, created by God, is imperfect?
Not exactly in line with the mainstream take on Paul's take on Christianity but it rings true to me.
Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for thoughtfully and respectfully sharing them.
You too, fren. Fingers crossed that tomorrow is the day the cabal finally falls.
I find the story of the gold plates hard to believe. What I do believe is that Jesus probably visited every civilization somehow, would that not be something Jesus would do? Why would he visit the Jews but not the native Americans? There’s always that one superhuman in every story such as Galileo, or George Washington. Men who do amazing things, could they possibly be Jesus returned? Idk.
Also I have thought about our current circumstances and how it’s immoral to keep humanity in an artificially induced state of perpetual debt slavery. I have yet to think of a solution and its implementation.
I enjoyed reading your post, thank you.
Yeah I always laugh when people scoff at the notion that Jesus could have visited other peoples. The guy can walk on water, heal the sick, raise the dead, rose from the dead himself, but when he left the apostles and ascended into heaven there's no possible way he could have made a pit stop somewhere else? Whether it happened or not is one thing. To suggest that the idea is insane, when you believe all those other things about Christ, seems pretty ignorant to me.
I really enjoy thinking about things like this and I sure hope that we will at some point gain the knowledge we seek. Jesus said knock and it will be opened for you so I’m counting on learning the mysteries of the universe.
And you know what, I’m starting to learn the purpose of this life. God could have wiped us all and started from scratch but maybe this is how he filters through which ones of us please him and cooperate with our fellow man. All of the original Hebrew laws and the 10 commandments were rules to follow while interacting with each other. Can you imagine living in a paradise with some of these cabal assholes? I think this life is to filter out the bad eggs.
Just more thoughts, I’m always thinking about something.
You know, as much as I want to see these people suffer for the crimes I've been told they've committed, there's also this part of me that just hopes they genuinely repent at some point. I think we still have the obligation as a society to punish them here, for our own safety, but as for the hereafter (if there is one--I'm still not convinced either way), where there's no damage they can really do to anyone else, I still can't help but hope for their salvation at some point.
In the Doctrine and Covenants section 130 verse 2, Joseph Smith says that "The same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy."
Basically he's saying we'll all be in the next world together, the good and the bad, just the way we are in this one. We just won't be able to physically suffer or die, etc., limiting the harm we can do to one another.
But just like here we'll live with who we want to live with, visit with whom we want to visit, listen to the music we prefer, eat the food we prefer, and do the things we prefer. Whether or not one is "in heaven" or "in hell" is less a matter of physical location as it is a matter of the mind.
Those who live the way that God knows is best will likely look upon those who don't and think, as they do now, "Too bad. They could be a lot happier." And those who don't will look at those who do and think "Suckers."
But over eons it will become clear to all who is truly happy and who is not, and one has to think, that those with grievous sins on their conscience will likely at some point humble themselves and seek out relief.
And when they do I suppose they'll come to realize that forgiveness was always available, and peace was always within reach, it was simply a matter of changing their paths, of feeling genuine remorse for the way they've treated others, and genuinely desirous to make amends for their crimes.
And little by little perhaps, as they experiment with repentance and righteousness here a little and there a little, they may wake up one morning to find that they have become genuinely good people, and will look back at their former ways, just as people do here in this life, and see the foolishness of them, and eventually depart from them forever until they wholly reunite with the human family they belong to, and take their seat at the great dinner table willingly, and welcomed, just like the Prodigal Son.
As C.S. Lewis likes to say, "The doors of hell may be shut, but they're locked from the inside." God will not force a man to heaven, but the door is always open to anyone who would actually feel comfortable there.
I find it interesting that President Nelson put priority on the membership to re-read the Book of Mormon and apply its teachings before all this nonsense with Covid and stuff started.
When I read through it, I was impressed deeply about the Gadianton Robbers and the warnings for our day. It was like we were meant to be ready for the great reveal that is coming soon -- that almost our entire planet is ruled by a cabal of grossly evil people who have made blood covenants with Satan himself.
Would sure be nice if Mormon leadership actually talked about that kind of stuff out loud though. I also would have liked to see them refuse to cave to the Covid fear, ending in-person meetings for over a year, and encouraging members to get a vaccine that we now know was a bioweapon. Oh well. Maybe the next church president will have better discernment.
I mentioned this to an old-timer, and he explained that back before the 80s there was always at least 1 or 2 talks about secret combinations and communism in GC, but then in the 80s they started to do less of that. He had an opportunity to ask an apostle or something why that was, and he said that if the membership was going to pay attention to that then they have already been given enough warning.
I think the days of the ten virgins are approaching sooner rather than later. Those who read the Book of Mormon and miss that whole point are going to find their lamps are dry.
That's a weak excuse in my opinion. You have a whole new generation growing up not getting that message. I'm 38. My friends in their twenties often don't even know who the Gadianton Robbers are. And they certainly don't see how it applies today.
Nauvoo is not all that far from Racine. It's around 240 miles, as the crow flies. It might be interesting to do some research to see if there's a connection of some sort between the two.
I mean Christians have been accusing each other of not being Christian for centuries at this point. It isn’t a new development. And have fought several brutal wars over the question of who is or isn’t Christian only to still have it go unanswered. Nowadays we’ve mostly moved past the whole violently purge the opposition part.
To just having heated arguments about theological differences and why said difference is the difference between which faith is Christian.
Anyway. Onto the rest of your essay. Certainly is an interesting idea. Can’t say I personally believe it. But it remains a possibility.
If anyone is interested in mormonism, start your search at exmormon.org. I went down hundreds of rabbit holes during my own explorations, and when I finished, I couldn't decide who was more evil, Brigham or Joseph.
There is an essential element to early mormonism that involves pedophilia and it survives to this day. Polygamy included Brigham Young marrying 8 year olds to old men and Smith married and consummated his marriage to a 12 year old. Oh, and read up on the Mountain Meadow Massacre.
As an ex-mormon, this is the best gathering of info about many things I think about, that I've ever read. Though I have couple theories with a different slant. Thank you tremendously, for your post!
Would love to chat, brother. We exmos are a strange breed :)
Interesting! My brother and his whole side of the family are Mormons and my Mom and Dad were converted to Mormon! Needless to say, anytime I visited my Mom and Dad I would always get the conversion speeches by my Dad! It didn't work, I'm a Pentecostal type person and I've always believed in Heaven and Hell! We have free will to believe or not to believe! Luke 16:19-31 spells out Hell directly from the lips of My LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST! So, if people don't believe they might want to visit the Scripture! I've read the book of Mormon and I liked it a lot, but anytime Mormons try to convert a person, they bring up you'll be like GOD and you will be ruling over others on other planets, etc., I Don't buy off on that, and I believe in the Temple they pray for people who have died. Kind of late for that according to Scripture Hebrews 9:27, but Mormons pray and gift thanks for everything and praise and glorify JESUS CHRIST. Hopefully, you will get back into the Bible and put your faith in the LORD!
Mormonism is Polytheistic. Christianity is Monotheistic. Therefore one cannot be a mormon and be a true christian.
I'm aware of your definition.
Oh I like to think I have plenty of faith in the Lord. Just like the Book of Mormon for me, I don't need the Bible to be true, or for God to be real in the literal sense. The idea of God for me is enough. The teachings of Christ for me, and the life he led, if only via text in black and white, is enough. I like to say I have faith in faith itself. I also have faith in love. Thinking about God only makes you a better person. The better your conception, the more powerful and effective the meditation.