So as a highly cynical admitted skeptic, I facially reject the idea that the FBI seizing "classified" stuff from Mar-a-lago magically morphs it into becoming admissible. If we presume for the sake of argument that this was classified, and now the FBI reclaimed what shouldn't have left custody of the government, how does this magically make it admissible? It would be akin to saying all you needed to do was get someone to steal it, tell the fbi, have them reclaim it, and now its open season on whatever materials we want to see. This makes no sense whatsoever.
However, in my unable to be shut off constantly war gaming mind, I came up with a possibility. But I find it unlikely. Perhaps someone else could add to this. Or perhaps it will be agreed this is too far fetched. Looking forward to thoughts.
What governs admissibility of evidence in federal criminal and civil trials? That is simple. The Federal Rules of Evidence. What FRE rules would admit this evidence? Well...that isn't simple...I'll start at the beginning. Here is a link to the rules for those so inclined. https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre
This is not intended to be an exhaustive dive into the many rules of evidence and exceptions. I will try to stick with those most applicable here. To start, FRE 402 covers the big picture on what is admissible, subject to many caveats. It states as follows:
"Relevant evidence is admissible unless any of the following provides otherwise:
the United States Constitution; a federal statute; these rules; or other rules prescribed by the Supreme Court. Irrelevant evidence is not admissible."
Plainly, the gateway question on admissibility that must be answered is "Is this relevant?" If it is not relevant, we stop the analysis right here.
What is considered relevant? The answer to that is found in FRE 401:
"Evidence is relevant if:
(a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and
(b) the fact is of consequence in determining the action."
It only requires just the ever so slightest hint of a tendency to prove a fact is more probable or less probable. It is a very low burden. If some piece of evidence makes a fact more or less probable than without the evidence, it is admissible if that particular fact is of consequence in the action. "Of consequence in the action" is best explained like this: In a first degree murder case, the state, in most circumstances, must prove the essential elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. First degree murder is commonly defined as the unlawful killing of a human that is premeditated, deliberate, and willful. Evidence of the defendant's email exchange with a third party about plotting to kill his ex wife is relevant, because it makes it more likely than without the email evidence that the killing was premeditated.
But the analysis does not stop here. Just because evidence is relevant does not automatically make it admissible. But if evidence is not relevant, we have no need to continue the analysis. It is not admissible.
Sometimes, a judge can still refuse to admit evidence even if it is relevant and also satisfies the rules. FRE 403 states:
"The court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger of one or more of the following: unfair prejudice, confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, wasting time, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence."
It is not often that judges will rely on FRE 403. But it can and does happen sometimes. The key is the danger "substantially" outweighs the probative value. Not just that the danger outweighs the value. This is a high burden to meet.
Now to the meat and potatoes: If one wishes to introduce a document as evidence, aside from satisfying the threshold question on relevance, and complying with other rules, this document must be authenticated. FRE 901(a) states:
"In General. To satisfy the requirement of authenticating or identifying an item of evidence, the proponent must produce evidence sufficient to support a finding that the item is what the proponent claims it is."
FRE 902 describes self-authenticating documents. None of these categories appear facially to apply to non-public classified government documents. This appears to be a problem. Or is it? FRE 902(1)-(2) states documents with the below are self authenticating:
"(1) Domestic Public Documents That Are Sealed and Signed. A document that bears:
(A) a seal purporting to be that of the United States; any state, district, commonwealth, territory, or insular possession of the United States; the former Panama Canal Zone; the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands; a political subdivision of any of these entities; or a department, agency, or officer of any entity named above; and
(B) a signature purporting to be an execution or attestation.
(2) Domestic Public Documents That Are Not Sealed but Are Signed and Certified. A document that bears no seal if:
(A) it bears the signature of an officer or employee of an entity named in Rule 902(1)(A); and
(B) another public officer who has a seal and official duties within that same entity certifies under seal — or its equivalent — that the signer has the official capacity and that the signature is genuine."
(see TLDR at the end for this application)
FRE 901(b)(1) provides that a witness with knowledge testifying that the item is what it is claimed is both the most common method utilized for satisfying the authentication requirement. But who is going to do that? This is a problem. (see discussion below on FRE 1003)
But we are still not over the hurdle. Trump almost certainly did not have boxes of the original documents. They are most likely copies and the originals are retained by the respective agencies that originated them. Even if he did, he most certainly doesn't have the originals now - the FBI does. More importantly: he would be the biggest dumbass in world history to not have made 500 other paper and digital copies and stashed them in various places. We know he didn't fail in that regard. And that sets up an entirely new problem to surmount. FRE 1002 states:
"An original writing, recording, or photograph is required in order to prove its content unless these rules or a federal statute provides otherwise."
Yikes. Seems like he's screwed now? Not so fast...
I think FRE 1003 gets us on our way to solving this problem but not without its own hurdles:
"A duplicate is admissible to the same extent as the original unless a genuine question is raised about the original’s authenticity or the circumstances make it unfair to admit the duplicate."
A cucked judge would happily toss this evidence upon first objection by the defense that they "doubt" the authenticity. This is highly problematic. Second to this, "authentication" by one of Trump's inner circle - Kash Patel, John Ratcliffe, or Richard Grenell is likely to provide a cucked judge enough wiggle room to find the same, due to potential conflicts of interest. However, an uncucked judge is likely to accept their authentication. Except we cannot rely upon having an uncucked judge in this trial.
What happens now? Well, if you are looking at the admissibility of this evidence in a criminal prosecution of deep state actors, you are looking in the wrong place. Plainly, "how do you lawfully admit evidence" is talking about Trump's civil RICO case. Durham doesn't have near the same hurdles as Trump does. And Durham represents the government. It would be pretty insane to see a judge tell the government that a government document copy submitted by the government is not authentic without some credible evidence to the contrary from the defense - which is simply not going to happen. And would likely be referred to the jury as a finding of fact to answer this question - is the government's evidence credible? And Durham would have some pretty broad leeway under the "Best evidence rule" which is not something I'll go into in this post. Those so inclined can google that to find out more.
Now the specific procedure and order here is kind of up in the air. But Trump has to petition the court for return of his property seized in the warrant, as is his right. It is slightly more complicated than I am describing, but not necessary in order to get to the point. The government will then have to either return it, or explain why it can't be returned. When they claim "it is classified, he's not entitled to have it" then he's got them. He can call the agents involved in the raid to authenticate his copies. No conflict exists with the people who busted in his house for a judge to reject this. And those agents can either (1) authenticate them or (2) find themselves in a position of either lying under oath refusing to return his property or lying under oath claiming that the documents Trump wants admitted as evidence are not authentic.
TLDR; perhaps the crooked FBI agents that raided his house are going to be put in the position of helping Trump get them admitted in his RICO case by having to authenticate copies of the very documents they were sent to retrieve to prevent Trump from using them; because a refusal to authenticate them would be perjury. Or forcing them to admit they are not classified, thus providing FRE 902 self authentication of the documents as public records that bear the signature of an FBI or DOJ agent/representative.
We are told trump has the ability to declassify like all presidents.
This stuff was formerly declassified BEFORE removal from D.C.
That's how
While I don't dispute his authority to do so in the least, I am not sure that is enough. When they released the warrant, anything marked was subject to seizure by feds. The fact it is marked creates a presumption in favor of being classified. How do you argue that you did it? Given that statutes require so many agencies to sign off on the declassification, a bad judge can lean on an agency's failure to do so as a reason it didn't happen. Is that bogus? Yes. Does that give plausible cover to propaganda media to argue it was classified? Yes.
Certainly, a true decision according to the rule of law by an appellate court or SCOTUS overcomes this. But that is a multi year endeavor. With no guarantees of success. There plainly isn't any pre-existing case law on the boundaries of presidential authority to declassify. I'd go as far as to say it's never been litigated. I could be wrong. I've just never ever seen such a thing.
edit: I should add - I would not believe that a civil case trial is where the issue of classification is going to be litigated. It would be litigated as a result of this warrant; either in a separate § civil rights lawsuit, or in the filing itself for the warrant. The former being more likely than the latter; the latter likely requires criminal charges be filed against Trump for possession in order to litigate the issue there. Not 100%, but I doubt that the judge issuing the warrant is going to hear the issue on whether the docs are classified. I guess it could be possible if the FBI doesn't return the property.
I have also wondered if the seizure is related to POTUS needing to be publicly neutral.
Instead of "Trump falsely claims without evidence again Hillary involved in U1 scandal!"
It's, "FBI discovered evidence of U1 scandal in Trump's declassified documents."
Optics matter. Dems trust the group who just raided Trump.
One of the problems with the evidence rhe fBI has is it has shaky chain of evidence because they hid it.
Chain of evidence should be the first thing lawyer looks at. Procedural defenses are what usually win for a guilty party.
Procedural breaches can easily cost a good case.
This repairs all of that and because of the publicity the fbi can't claim not to have it.
That's a different angle that I had not considered as it relates to criminal trials. But aren't we expecting Durham to indict her? If so, he already has that evidence. Presuming, of course, that Trump/inner circle did as we currently believe - provided Durham with all these classified docs. I don't see the FBI involved in this raid going after Hillary with the results. Maybe I'm wrong.
I don’t expect anything from Durham.
I'm skeptical on that front too. However, we don't need to worry about how to introduce evidence if Durham doesn't do it. It would have to be another US Attorney...Currently appointed and controlled by Biden. Would have to get new ones in 2024 Trump victory. In which case, the government can simply provide those docs.
Huber
Excellent digging fren! Really helps understand the pickle the Feebs are now in 👍🏻👍🏻 MODS can we get this stickied please!!
deport -> other -> "Sticky Request"
The mods have said that this is the best way to get their attention to sticky something
Thanks fren wasn’t sure if that was it - didn’t want to risk deporting a good post
thankfully, our mods=gods and are not NPC's, they actually read the reports!
your username checks out! nice post
I like what you've done here. Very thorough and thought-provoking.
To quibble though-- can you elaborate on your use of the term "uncucked judge"? Is this a judge that had, at one time, been cucked but somehow recovered from it, or would it be better to refer to them as a "non-cucked judge"?
Apologies for the tedium.
Probably could apply to either. Basically, a judge that follows the law and is not corrupt. Somewhat rhetorical question: do we have any of those?
Q post 3850 is interesting.
current events have certainly awakened some people from there coma. If it weren't for the media attacks, brainwashed people would not be as interested as we are to know what info the boxes hold.
The nuclear secrets are most likely about Uranium One, info that Trump would love for the public to know all about.
But don't they typically use "nuclear" as coms for blackmail/compromising info/filth? Because that would totally make sense in this context. And perhaps it does have a legit nuclear component...uranium. Not sure on this.
I don't remember who posted it, but I saw video of Trump talking to reporters in 2019 saying he DECLASSIFIED everything possible to do with the Russia Russia Russia hoax - possibly millions of pages of stuff. That's proof he DECLASSIFIED it
Thanks! Head still spinning from way too much reading...
I've already found a few holes that need to be plugged in this, but I don't think it alters the overall concept, and I am pretty sure I could plug them within this framework.
Hence, Wray is a sleeper, and this is the way forward
I'm inclined to buy that. But he doesn't need to be for this to have happened.
What looks patently obvious is that this was a Hillary op. I don't believe Garland knew. Nobody knew. The responses were all over the place. No coordination, no canned remarks reciting the same crap. Just platitudes and cliches about nobody above the law. It was 2 days later before some kind of collective messaging took place. Even then, it was competing narratives.
Garland only spoke for 4 minutes because he never planned to have to speak about what he didn't authorize. But he had to claim it; the chorus of people + sitting representatives calling the FBI rogue and unhinged was loud. If he said "ya I didn't know shit about this, nobody asked me..." that would only amplify the "FBI is rogue and out of control!" crowd. He had to own it.
Nobody knew because Hillary kept it quiet. If word got out, it would have been nixed. Because it is predictable as sunrise and sunset that there would be collective outrage that crossed party lines. They got enough on their plate; nobody wants to handle more bullshit. Especially when there is no upside overall, just egg on the face of everyone.
How do you “inject” evidence! Wow Anon nice dive into the law and policy of what might need to be done to catch them up!
Check out the big brain on Brad. Nice analysis, OP.
I suspect the gestapo will do what they typically do by hiding the details of the legal procedures from the public by claiming special privileges, and exceptions based on "national security reasons," and concocted circumstances to allow for secret FISA court proceedings. Those people are literal nazi-commies, and will do what they do in secret, without regard for public oversight, nor optics.
Trump had the opportunity to destroy the unconstitutional FISA, but he did not. Let's see what happens.
Every agent in the operation would have to have proper clearance to conduct the raid. That in itself shows it was declassified. They were looking for something else or wanted to plant something. Or to bug him. It is now in a court ordered proceeding. Everyone wants to know what's in the box. Eyes on as they say.
Every agent at the FBI has a security clearance. You can't be an agent if you don't have one. We don't even know who they sent; for all we know every one of them has the highest clearance...
They are saying nukes. I don't know of any position in the FBI that has that classification.
imho that this is part of a multi-step process.
perhaps some of the documentation that needs to be introduced had not been completely declassified, but had only been moved to one of the lower levels of classification.
then, a bunch of ham handed fbi agents went and mishandled it. one would assume that that would drop it out of that last level of classification without the necessity of offering another reason to do so.
it would then make it easier to introduce once one had a reason to call upon it, wouldn't it?