A question for everyone that says read or study the Bible. The Bible was corrupted by men and the church....some parts and sections have been hidden, some changed. To trust that we, meaning ordinary people living ordinary lives vs those in highest levels of the church (Vatican) have the complete Bible is not believable. Why do you think the Bible is complete when the Vatican has secrets and hidden areas?
What really changed is how Christians today interpret the scriptures. The Scofield Reference Bible (1830) added many un-scriptural doctrines. It viewed "the church" as totally distinct from national Israel. What's interesting is that the group that bankrolled the publication and distribution of the SRB was a group of Jews from New York City. Ask yourself why Jews would bankroll a Christian Reference Bible?
You raise some common questions and concerns regarding the Bible's integrity and completeness. Here are responses to each of your claims with a little sauce on the side:
Corruption of the Bible: While it's true that there have been variations in biblical manuscripts over time, scholars have employed rigorous textual criticism to reconstruct the original text of the Bible as closely as possible (almost 98% accuracy). The Bible's integrity is supported by an extensive body of ancient manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls, which confirm the accuracy of many biblical texts.
Source: "The Dead Sea Scrolls: Discovery and Meaning" by Hershel Shanks, National Geographic, 2010.
Hidden and Changed Sections: There is no concrete evidence to suggest that entire sections of the Bible have been systematically hidden or intentionally changed. While there have been differences in manuscript traditions, the core message and teachings of the Bible have remained remarkably consistent.
Source: "The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration" by Bruce M. Metzger and Bart D. Ehrman, Oxford University Press, 2005.
Trust in Completeness: The idea that the Bible is complete is based on the careful preservation and compilation of ancient texts. While there may be variations in specific manuscripts, the fundamental teachings and narratives of the Bible remain consistent across various versions and translations.
Source: "How We Got the Bible" by Neil R. Lightfoot, Baker Books, 2003.
Vatican's Role: The Vatican, as the center of the Roman Catholic Church, has indeed played a significant role in preserving and interpreting biblical texts. However, the Bible is not solely in the hands of the Vatican. It is widely studied, translated, and interpreted by scholars and theologians from various denominations and backgrounds.
Source: "The Oxford Handbook of Early Christian Biblical Interpretation" edited by Paul M. Blowers and Peter W. Martens, Oxford University Press, 2019.
'There is no concrete evidence to suggest' entire sections of the Bible have been changed or hidden my response, those words are the SAME words used by GOVT and MSM re 9/11, election of 2020 re cheating, WACO, Las Vegas massacre, etc.
All it takes is one example of concrete evidence to prove me wrong. We’ll wait for you to provide it, rather than Jedi handwave well thought out responses.
Corruption of the Bible: While it's true that there have been variations in biblical manuscripts over time, scholars have employed rigorous textual criticism to reconstruct the original text of the Bible as closely as possible (almost 98% accuracy). The Bible's integrity is supported by an extensive body of ancient manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls, which confirm the accuracy of many biblical texts.
OK so explain me this :
Numbers 31:17-18 (rape and murder):
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Samuel 15:03 (infanticide and murder)
3 Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction1 all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman,** child and infant**, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”
What, exactly, needs to be responded to here? I would need a little more context as to the reason why you think these verses need a response or an explanation? What, specifically, are you having a hard time understanding in these passages?
Because we have lots of physical evidence and proof. You can go to websites to see original manuscripts. In the caves of Kumran in the 1950s original manuscripts were just found, with a COMPLETE scroll of Isaiah, which foretells Jesus. This means that God and Jesus are real, and Jesus tells us to follow the scriptures. Now if there is still some corruption pray about it. Because remember, God is real and He will Lead us to Him if we want to be with Him. Honestly the biblical documents are some of the most well kept artifacts to this day. Do some research and you will see that the Bible as it is today is not corrupted. Find biblical scholars and ask them questions.
God is real. That I believe. This site allows us to seek truth via efforts of the many researchers... don't think ordinary reading of the published 'Bible' is enlightening as it may not be accurate anymore. Look at what's been done to history books when they've been republished.
I understand where you’re coming from, but the Bible is very well in tact. You can do research on this. We have full early manuscripts of Greek and Hebrew texts. Find a biblical scholar and send them an email. It is their mission as a Christian to help spread the truth, so they will be happy to help if they have time. Here is a good article to read, too: https://crossexamined.org/is-the-new-testament-reliable-erhman-refutes-ehrman/
The Bible has been preserved with amazing accuracy throughout the millennia’s. This fact is supported by more evidence than any other book from ancient antiquity.
I understand your concern and I share a lot of sympathy with it. Removing the apocrypha from the Bible as a notion to help "clarify and omit "fake news " as was the final product of the KJV and all of its iterations since has not been the best for mankind. But at the same time, knowing more isn't necessarily going to get a net positive out of a majorly uneducated society. Of course I know the true intention wasn't to make it easier to understand, but the scholars involved weren't all out for that negative agenda. I guess you could consider me a Christian metaphysicist, at most an amateur one, but I would say to your comments in this thread that you are on the right track of attempting to understand why the old testament and new testament are so vastly different and being a critic isn't always a bad thing or to be shunned, hell look at this entire movement and how it works. And you are validated in your criticism of organized religion, but it favors you to distinguish the institution of religion of which is corrupted to an extent to the fellowship of faith, which Jesus wanted for us, and you have already highlighted on this as I edit this comment reading your others. Stick with that. If you at least know the path, you are already doing well. It's going down that path to the "source" is where most won't go, but I think it's our duty as Gods children to do so. I think maybe reforming some of your questions slightly may help, but as you know this is your path and agreeing or disagreeing isn't the point, you are rightly concerned.
A question for everyone that says read or study the Bible. The Bible was corrupted by men and the church....some parts and sections have been hidden, some changed. To trust that we, meaning ordinary people living ordinary lives vs those in highest levels of the church (Vatican) have the complete Bible is not believable. Why do you think the Bible is complete when the Vatican has secrets and hidden areas?
What really changed is how Christians today interpret the scriptures. The Scofield Reference Bible (1830) added many un-scriptural doctrines. It viewed "the church" as totally distinct from national Israel. What's interesting is that the group that bankrolled the publication and distribution of the SRB was a group of Jews from New York City. Ask yourself why Jews would bankroll a Christian Reference Bible?
Why would they? So many moving parts, so many incidents of deception... please explain
To completely corrupt the message of Jesus. It's not hard to figure out.
Thanks...so they succeeded as that was a 'better kept' secret
Because many dispensationalists are pro-Israel and pro-Zionist. One of their good qualities, despite their poor hermeneutics and eschatology.
You raise some common questions and concerns regarding the Bible's integrity and completeness. Here are responses to each of your claims with a little sauce on the side:
Corruption of the Bible: While it's true that there have been variations in biblical manuscripts over time, scholars have employed rigorous textual criticism to reconstruct the original text of the Bible as closely as possible (almost 98% accuracy). The Bible's integrity is supported by an extensive body of ancient manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls, which confirm the accuracy of many biblical texts.
Hidden and Changed Sections: There is no concrete evidence to suggest that entire sections of the Bible have been systematically hidden or intentionally changed. While there have been differences in manuscript traditions, the core message and teachings of the Bible have remained remarkably consistent.
Trust in Completeness: The idea that the Bible is complete is based on the careful preservation and compilation of ancient texts. While there may be variations in specific manuscripts, the fundamental teachings and narratives of the Bible remain consistent across various versions and translations.
Vatican's Role: The Vatican, as the center of the Roman Catholic Church, has indeed played a significant role in preserving and interpreting biblical texts. However, the Bible is not solely in the hands of the Vatican. It is widely studied, translated, and interpreted by scholars and theologians from various denominations and backgrounds.
'There is no concrete evidence to suggest' entire sections of the Bible have been changed or hidden my response, those words are the SAME words used by GOVT and MSM re 9/11, election of 2020 re cheating, WACO, Las Vegas massacre, etc.
All it takes is one example of concrete evidence to prove me wrong. We’ll wait for you to provide it, rather than Jedi handwave well thought out responses.
Wow, I didn't realize Metzger and Ehrman wrote a book together. Interesting 🤔
OK so explain me this :
Numbers 31:17-18 (rape and murder):
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Samuel 15:03 (infanticide and murder)
3 Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction1 all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman,** child and infant**, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”
What, exactly, needs to be responded to here? I would need a little more context as to the reason why you think these verses need a response or an explanation? What, specifically, are you having a hard time understanding in these passages?
please don't play the fool.
Because we have lots of physical evidence and proof. You can go to websites to see original manuscripts. In the caves of Kumran in the 1950s original manuscripts were just found, with a COMPLETE scroll of Isaiah, which foretells Jesus. This means that God and Jesus are real, and Jesus tells us to follow the scriptures. Now if there is still some corruption pray about it. Because remember, God is real and He will Lead us to Him if we want to be with Him. Honestly the biblical documents are some of the most well kept artifacts to this day. Do some research and you will see that the Bible as it is today is not corrupted. Find biblical scholars and ask them questions.
God is real. That I believe. This site allows us to seek truth via efforts of the many researchers... don't think ordinary reading of the published 'Bible' is enlightening as it may not be accurate anymore. Look at what's been done to history books when they've been republished.
I understand where you’re coming from, but the Bible is very well in tact. You can do research on this. We have full early manuscripts of Greek and Hebrew texts. Find a biblical scholar and send them an email. It is their mission as a Christian to help spread the truth, so they will be happy to help if they have time. Here is a good article to read, too: https://crossexamined.org/is-the-new-testament-reliable-erhman-refutes-ehrman/
The Bible has been preserved with amazing accuracy throughout the millennia’s. This fact is supported by more evidence than any other book from ancient antiquity.
You are so wrong about a lot of this, I’ll pray for you. The Catholic Church is bad, correct. But the Bible is real and true.
I understand your concern and I share a lot of sympathy with it. Removing the apocrypha from the Bible as a notion to help "clarify and omit "fake news " as was the final product of the KJV and all of its iterations since has not been the best for mankind. But at the same time, knowing more isn't necessarily going to get a net positive out of a majorly uneducated society. Of course I know the true intention wasn't to make it easier to understand, but the scholars involved weren't all out for that negative agenda. I guess you could consider me a Christian metaphysicist, at most an amateur one, but I would say to your comments in this thread that you are on the right track of attempting to understand why the old testament and new testament are so vastly different and being a critic isn't always a bad thing or to be shunned, hell look at this entire movement and how it works. And you are validated in your criticism of organized religion, but it favors you to distinguish the institution of religion of which is corrupted to an extent to the fellowship of faith, which Jesus wanted for us, and you have already highlighted on this as I edit this comment reading your others. Stick with that. If you at least know the path, you are already doing well. It's going down that path to the "source" is where most won't go, but I think it's our duty as Gods children to do so. I think maybe reforming some of your questions slightly may help, but as you know this is your path and agreeing or disagreeing isn't the point, you are rightly concerned.