EXCLUSIVE: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano Summoned to Vatican to be Excommunicated
(www.thegatewaypundit.com)
😠 Vatican’s Poor Decisions 😠
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I just see it as God, and then everything else. I don't recall Jesus claiming to be God. He claimed to be accurately representing God's nature and character, that God was his father, and that he was on a mission from God and was determined to complete it.
I see it more like "big brother obeyed Father perfectly so he got to rule all the household and we must listen to him (hence why he is now called Lord of all creation)". He also made a way for us all to be reunited with our Father (God) despite our falling short of His requirements.
Furthermore I view the Holy Spirit as an extremity of God. Since God is holy, he chooses to interface with man via this extremity. It seems kinda simple to me. The splitting up into 3 persons part is quite confusing. It makes God seem like some sort of hydra, but we know that we were "created in the image and likeness of God" so show me a person who is actually 3 persons??
Regardless of where you stand it's worth looking into and pondering without dogmatic glasses on. So much of what we've been told has proven false.
edit- check into the myths of Horus, Isis and Osiris for further info
Heresy. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.
Well, refute something I said with the truth. Your comment adds little beyond "I disagree strongly"
kekekekeke downvote away! I don't care! You are wrong! Fight me!
You are literally making up your own theology without discerning the foundational beliefs of early christians. Your explanations are far off inconsistent from scripture which many of us that responded are trying to pull you back. You're interpretations are nothing more than material heresy. These false teachings have been repeatedly debated and failed over time. The extensive efforts to maintain the dogma of early Christian separates Christianity from all other forms of paganism and misinformation.
I've read your other comments and here are some heresies you've stated; Adoptionism: Jesus was only man and gain the title Son of God. Arianism: The nature of Jesus' divinity was not part of the Trinity. Monotheliticism: Jesus only had either a human or divine will.
False. Jesus was divine and manifested in the flesh.
"the Trinity" as it has been commonly accepted is a heresy.
Jesus had both but chose to obey the Father, God Almighty.
I think Jesus was God in the flesh.
If He had come out and told people, "I am God," that would be a VERY different conversation than, "I am the son of God," because everyone else could claim the same thing.
God created Adam. But His people were not following his rules. So, he wiped out most of His people (not the entire world, but only a local area) via the flood, and left it up to Noah to repopulate because Noah was "perfect in his ancestry."
Later, His people were again not following The Law, so He sent Moses to make it more concrete.
Later still, they were still not doing what He wanted, so He made a special promise for Abraham, that his descendents would multiply across the world and spread the Word.
Again, His people were screwing up, so He came to Earth, in the flesh, to TEACH directly what He wanted His people to do, to set an example, to reveal more truth to again make it more clear, and also to die for their sins, so they would not have to die (as was the rule from the OT). He also clarified what sin is (1 John 3:4 -- Sin is the transgression of The Law), and forever removed death as the penalty for sin.
He gave a lot of information in His time on Earth, but most people (once again) have forgotten, never learned, or ignored.
Jesus never claimed to be God, true. But He did things that ONLY God could do, which (to me) makes it obvious that He was, and understandable why He would not come right out and say it.
This is explained by him being anointed by God. After that happened he got the power and authority to break or bend natural laws, hence the term "super-natural", or "above natural laws".
I think Jesus existed in Heaven with God long before he came to the earth, but I don't think he was God. I think he was clear in his relationship TO God, as he said he was God's son. Later on it was made more clear that he was God's FAITHFUL son, unlike Adam. I could be wrong and in the grand scheme of things I don't believe this is an ultra-important issue to debate and we should focus on what Jesus taught us, but I'm down to explore it more!
Jesus did claim to be God tho?
John 8:58 John 10:30 John 20:28 John 1:1 John 10:33 Matthew 4:7 Luke 4:12 Revelation 22:13
Imagine claiming OTHER people aren't Christians while espousing blatant Gnostic heresies refuted in the New Testament.
Educate yourself!!
Jn. 8:58 - claims he existed before Abraham, which can be explained as God having a son before Abraham was alive.
Jn. 10:30 - claims to be "one with the Father" (see: https://biblehub.com/greek/1520.htm to dig into the word used for one) this is not an automatic "I am Him" statement.
Jn. 20:28 - Thomas called him his Lord and God. Does Thomas' statement have enough weight to make the stretch? Up to you. Many of his disciples had wrong impressions of various aspects of his ministry, and not all were openly refuted by Jesus.
Jn 1:1 - The only one you posted which possibly could mean Jesus is God Himself.
Jn. 10:33 - Jesus told the devil that it's a sin to "test the Lord your God" , because the devil was compelling Jesus to jump off a cliff and see if angels would rescue him. Who exactly is being tested by this act to see if they'd help Jesus? Think about it.
Lk. 4:12 - Same as Jn. 10:33
Rev. 22:13 - Jesus is the alpha and omega, beginning and end. Was it not said something along the lines of "God created the worlds THROUGH him (his son)? So we have Creator and we have Maker (the one who does the work according to the Creator's plan)
I ask you, is being regarded equal with someone the same as you being that someone?
Why did Jesus pray to the Father if he was the Father? Why has "all authority in heaven and on earth" been given to Jesus if he was the one who gave it to him? Who had it before?
Jesus "ascended into Heaven and sat down at the right hand of the Father" - how is this possible if Jesus was the Father?? He sat down at his own right hand?
I must address one point of yours directly:
I disagree that the NT refuted them, that they are heretical, and that even if you were right, that somehow I'd lose MY RIGHT to call out Babylonian paganism wrapped in Christ's name! I also clearly stated that I could be wrong in my earlier comment above. This isn't a topic which alters the doctrines Christ taught us, so it shouldn't be one for Christian division, in my opinion.
edit- I assume the downvote will be accompanied by a response? Hello fren let's discuss, it shouldn't be hard and I don't bite! Well if I do I usually get convicted on the inside and relent my ego out of it 🥲
John 14:7-10 --
If the Father dwelleth in Jesus how does that make them the same person? It sounds like two different beings in some form of unity to me. If Jesus dwelleth in me as a believer, does that make me Jesus?
Here's my response to the other post https://greatawakening.win/p/17tLAw7P7v/x/c/4ZCZxBYuFqV what do you think?
This is a fun topic! I wasn't expecting it to turn into this discussion but now I'm having a blast, I love talking about this stuff. I learn a lot myself 😅
edit- I'll check out the work, thank you! As I said in my opening remark here I'm not 100% on this topic. I'm only relaying what I find more likely based on the passages I know.
First, I addressed most of these here: https://greatawakening.win/p/17tLAw7P7v/x/c/4ZCZxBYuFqV
Second, please explain these passages?
John 17:1-19
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Prayer for the Disciples 6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
You seem to have a problem with how God speaks through a prophet.
I am a Christian. I claim God was speaking through His pure son, Jesus Christ, who was with Him in Heaven before the world was made. God had another son who did not obey Him, and we know the result. Do you not see the same template with Jacob and Esau? Anyways, I addressed most of those verses in the comment that I linked to you. For the ones I didn't address, Isaiah 9:6 is the only one which is a challenge. (I'm not going back through to see which ones I responded to as you wholeheartedly discarded everything I said about them). I will have to study and pray on Isaiah 9:6, you just may have changed my mind.