9-11. Couldn't have been a better witness than detail oriented builder Trump. Think about it. He KNEW the minute the first tower collapsed that it was a controlled collapse. He's been working toward these next 4 years ever since.
ITA and I think it’s a main factor in running for president and saving the country. I think that disclosure will be a giant red pill. Talk about brain-breaking.
Such an excellent write up. Israel will get hers. The zionists and all their secret societies around the world will get theirs. Their sins will soon be known shouted from the rooftops, and the knowledge of the Lord shall cover the earth like the waters cover the seas.
Not to mention they used darbyism spread by the Schofield reference Bible to push pre-millennial dispensationalism that tricked the modern evangelical church into thinking that Israel has some sort of place in the future fulfillment of scripture.
The belief in the rapture and that we lose down here as Christians is the greatest lie that is ever been injected into the Christian church. No one polishes brass on a sinking ship.
God wins.
Belief in the rapture was virtually unheard of up until about 200 years ago.
You can believe what you want but you’re wrong about Pre-Tribulation being unheard of before 200yrs ago. Early church fathers did believe and discuss it. Irenaeus (2nd century) being one of them.
I have been soaking in info from both sides of the argument and so far Dr. Gene Kim has the most influential pro Pre-Tribulation arguments. He claims dispensationalism is undeniable when thought of rationally and with a measured approach. He blames hyper-dispensationalists, like Darby, for giving dispensationalism a bad rap, as with anything taken to extremes.
As far as Zionism goes, I tend to agree with you that most pastors and churches think about Israel too much as the land with physical borders rather than the nation of Israelite group of men and women that God made a covenant with. The land mass known as Israel is mostly filled with the synagogue of Satan.
I said "virtually unheard of" as in it was not even remotely a mainstream Christian eschatological position.
I'm not sure if you're just being intellectually dishonest and trying to misrepresent me or you just didn't read what I said.
Either way my point still stands.
The men that founded this country weren't premillennial dispensationalists. They were thinking generations ahead unlike people that believe in the rapture.
I'll end with these words from Jesus.... "This generation shall not pass till all these things take place"
Belief in the rapture and a future tribulation makes Jesus a liar.
He said that approximately 32 AD and Rome was destroyed in 70 AD. You know who felt pretty damn tribulated? Christians around the time.
Look brother, sorry I misread and didn’t notice “virtually” as I should have.
Now step back and use the same straw man fallacy on yourself. Belief in the rapture does not make Jesus a liar. Jesus’ statement and Pre-Tribulation can both be true. There are strong arguments that the tribulation that Jesus was talking about was a different tribulation. There is not just a singular tribulation in the Bible. There are many uses of the word tribulation and Christians are warned that they will face many tribulations in life. However, there is distinction made for a Great Tribulation, Jacob’s Trouble. It’s possible that the destruction of Rome and the last week (7yrs) of Danial’s prophecy, Jacob’s Trouble, are separate events and both true as well. As I said, Jesus and a pre-tribulation rapture can both be true and coexist. Btw, that very argument is addressed, and quite well, by Dr. Kim using the Bible to cite the Bible. That’s called rightly dividing. Using scripture to hone one’s understanding of other scripture. Something Timothy advises us to do.
I honestly don’t even understand why you are even bringing the founding fathers of this country into this biblical argument? They have no relevance whatsoever.
The bottom line is nobody knows the mind of God and certain details of His word. Perhaps that is why Paul speaks of being caught up, pre-trib rapture, as one of the mysteries revealed to him directly from Jesus. It had never been spoken of before that. Paul reveals it.
If you think you're about to be yeeted up into heaven any day, you're not going to start a project you're great grandchildren will have to finish. You're not going to go settle a new nation.
The founding Fathers did not have a defeatist view of eschatology. Dispensationalist churches, on the whole, have minimal impact on culture from what I've experienced. They dont fight and take dominion.
My Church wrote the amicus brief that overturned Roe v Wade and we run EndAbortionNow.com and churches all over the world too fight abortion and a biblical manner. We also have bills of full abolition pending all over the nation. The majority of the churches that sign up with us and fight this fight are post-millennial and amillennial.
In the last days it will be like in the days of Noah. The ark is obviously symbolic of Christ. Remind me what happens to those in the ark vs those not in it? I believe the wicked were swept away and destroyed while those in the ark remained.
Then we have the parable of the wheat and the tares ... They are gathered together and fire (judgment) comes and the weeds are burnt and only the wheat remains.
I could go on and on but I doubt we'll agree. Fortunately it's not a salvific issue.
At least we agree that it does not affect salvation. Saying it represents a defeatist view of eschatology is a bit ignorant though.
Would a Pre-Tribber with a defeatist view of eschatology fight so hard and loud to be a nationally known figure? Would they be invited to the White House on multiple occasions to counsel President Trump? Would a they open and fund Christian schools? Would they fight censorship by creating their own Christian media network? Would they host other front line anti-abortion warriors and apologists as guest speakers at their pulpit often? Because these are just a few of the things my pastor and our church are known for. He and we are well known nationally for the political fight we bring everyday. We do not have a defeated mindset. We do not sit back and wait.
On the contrary a pre-tribulation that can anytime spurns action. We keep busy about The Lord’s work to get as much done as we can for we know not the hour. We are vigilant in our obedience to express our love since Jesus can show up anytime. This is why we take every opportunity to share His love with others.
We need to bring as many with us as possible and the hour is late.
I say all this not to brag but to give you understanding that your view that Pre-Mil Pre-Trib beliefs are defeatist views of eschatology is simply wrong. It’s quite the opposite.
As for the biblical reasons for it I leave you with all my research notes:
1 Thessalonians 4
17 Caught up (= Rapture)
Mat 24 (speaks of post Trib)
29 Immediately after
31 “Elect” from all corners
26 in secret chambers believe it not (not secret, private, or mysterious)
30 shall see Son of man coming (public)
1Cor 15 (Pre-Trib)
51 Behold I show you a mystery (not previously known but Jesus already spoke of rapture in Mat 24) Paul is speaking of a separate, rightly divided, rapture or he is a liar. (Private)
Rev 5 (tribulation starts in 6)
9 The redeemed sing a new song in heaven before tribulation begins. (Redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation) all Christians
10 made us into our God kings and priests (all Christians)
Rev 1
5 Unto Him that loved “us” and washed “us” from our sins (all Christians)
6 made us priests and kings (all Christians)
All Christians are up in heaven before tribulation starts.
Jer 30
7 Alas that day is great so that none is like it it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble. (Israel’s trouble)
Rom 11
25 blindness of Israel until the fullness of the gentiles (blindness until God is done dealing with the rest of the world whole world, gentiles, first)
26 and so all Israel “shall be” (future) saved…the Deliverer, and turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27 covenant unto them…”shall” (future) take away their sins. (A national Jewish salvation. The church is already saved from sin. We don’t have to wait till tribulation to be saved.)
Dan 9
:27 and He shall confirm the covenant with many for 1 week. (7 year tribulation)
:24 70 weeks determined upon “thy” people and upon “thy” holy city to finish the transgression, and to make of sins (Christian’s sins don’t take 70 weeks to be forgiven? No.)
:25-26 7 weeks and three score and 2 weeks and after three score and 2 weeks (69 weeks + Jesus + 1 week-tribulation :27)
2Thes 2 ( used as proof text of no pre-trib)
:1 Coming of Christ “and our gathering.” (2 events)
:2 …not be shaken… that the Day of Christ “is at hand” (cannot happen at any moment? Cause of :3. Paul is saying don’t let anyone deceive you that the rapture is already here/happened. People were worried they missed it. That is the context for :3) 2nd coming.
:3 that day shall not come until falling away first (falling away is underway now) and man of sin revealed. (Antichrist) 2 coming.
:8 …shall destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2nd coming.
Rom 13
:11 knowing the time that is now…salvation nearer than we believed.
:12 night is far spent, the “day IS at hand” (contradiction? No “any moment”)
At hand has two meanings, any moment and already here.
2Thes 1
:8 …taking vengeance on “them that know not God, and that obey not” the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Believers are already in heaven)
:10-12 speaks to the unbelievers in the tribulation, it is addressed to them and they (others), not we (us believers).
:13 but we (us believers) are bound to give thanks always to God…from the beginning chosen you to salvation
:14 …to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Col 3
:4 When Christ , who is our life, shall appear, then shall we also appear with Him in glory.
:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (With Christ in heaven).
Tribulation = hardship. Believers are in tribulation right now.
Rev2
:10 …tribulation 10 days…(tribulation is not 10 days long) this tribulation is general hardship.
Mat24
:21 For then shall be “great tribulation” such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time , nor shall ever be. The 7 year tribulation is far worse and separate from any “previous tribulation.”
Jesus and Paul teach Pre-Trib
1Thes 5
:4 ye “bretheren are not” in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (Not overtaken unawares)
:7 For they that sleep, sleep in the night and they that are drunken are drunk at night. (Believers are not drunken)
:9-10 …not appointed to wrath, but obtain salvation…awake or asleep we should live together with Him. (Believers are not appointed)
Luk21
:21 Then let them which are IN Judaea
:22 …days of vengeance…
:23 …in those days! For there shall be great distress and “wrath” upon His people.
:34 take heed to yourselves, lest any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
:35 for as a snare shall it come upon them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
:36 Watch ye therefor, and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of man.
Non Bible historical evidences
Irenaeus - Against Heresies 5.29 - 2nd century: And therefor when in the end the church shall be suddenly caught up from this. It is said there shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning neither shall be. For this this is the last contest of the righteous for when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.
Ephraim 4th century - “On the Last Times” - See that the sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares woe to those who desire to see of the Day of the Lord. For all the saints and elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion overwhelm the world because of our sins.
Apostolic Bretheren 13th/14th centuries.
The History of Brother Galsino
Dispensationalism before Darby
Ancient Dispensationalism
Why must there be a pre-tribulation rapture of the church?
The Rapture is biblical doctrine.
1A) a foundational doctrine in the New Testament
Titus 2:13
1 Thessalonians 1:10
1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Arpazzo- To be seized or extracted forcefully
1B) Why does the Rapture need to happen? It is a church event. Predominately gentile event.
Jesus welcomes the church to heaven. John 14:1-3
Revelation 4:1 John sees an open door in heaven and hears a voice sounding like a trumpet, come up here and I will show you things that happen after this. The church, bride of Christ, is not on earth and not spoken of again until Chapter 19 when they are in heaven.
It marks the completion of the church’s work. Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost to build the church and finishes by presenting the church to Christ at his appearing. Jude 1:24-25
2 Thessalonians 2:6-8A Holy Spirit steps aside and fills the 144,000 witnesses (Jews). Then the AC is revealed after the rapture of the church.
1C) What purpose does the Rapture serve?
Serves as an Exhortation to all believers to be watchful and ready. Paul says “we who are alive and remain” Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept my command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth.
Consummation of the church: 1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Fulfills the promises of God to deliver us from THE WRATH to come.
1 Thessalonians Paul teaches the predestination based upon the foreknowledge of God and the rapture.
2 Thessalonians came out of fear that Thessalonica missed the rapture.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 So that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Enoch was raptured.
Elijah was raptured
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
What will be the characteristics of the Rapture?
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
2A) How will the Rapture happen? 1 Corinthians 15:51-52a Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump…
2B) What will happen to those left behind? 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12Â That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
When will the rapture happen? 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2Â For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3Â For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4Â But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Â Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Â Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7Â For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8Â But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9Â For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Differences between Pre and Rapture. One umbrella covers both. Each one is from its own perspective. Bride of Christ (the church) it is an imminent event with no prerequisites and for Tribulation saints (not members of the body of the church) there are prerequisits.
The Rapture:
Christ appears in the air for His church
The catching up of all believers takes place
The church age believers are taken to the Father’s house in Heaven
Not only is Elon giving the most basic bitch arguments in that video, but some of the shit he's pedaling about helping "rebuild" is either full on ignorant or outright sinister.
It feels like a breakthrough to the masses of the truth about Israeli American relationship and seemingly will lead to how (((they))) [zionists] have acted as minions for satan & infiltrated all levels of media, government, culture and most recently, corporations successfully controlling media narratives by playing victim/screeching “antisemitism!!!” But their vice grip is breaking.
Israel is the CCP we hear about! People think that it refers to China! Command and Control Program actively ran out of Israel! Politicians bribed, blackmailed or eliminated by the Zionist Khazarian Mafia! Infiltration instead of invasion!
9-11. Couldn't have been a better witness than detail oriented builder Trump. Think about it. He KNEW the minute the first tower collapsed that it was a controlled collapse. He's been working toward these next 4 years ever since.
ITA and I think it’s a main factor in running for president and saving the country. I think that disclosure will be a giant red pill. Talk about brain-breaking.
We should not be funding Israel any more. Look at at this: https://ca.cair.com/losangeles/updates/every-year-610-million-in-california-taxpayer-dollars-goes-to-funding-israels-genocide-in-gaza/
Such an excellent write up. Israel will get hers. The zionists and all their secret societies around the world will get theirs. Their sins will soon be known shouted from the rooftops, and the knowledge of the Lord shall cover the earth like the waters cover the seas.
Not to mention they used darbyism spread by the Schofield reference Bible to push pre-millennial dispensationalism that tricked the modern evangelical church into thinking that Israel has some sort of place in the future fulfillment of scripture.
The belief in the rapture and that we lose down here as Christians is the greatest lie that is ever been injected into the Christian church. No one polishes brass on a sinking ship.
God wins.
Belief in the rapture was virtually unheard of up until about 200 years ago.
You can believe what you want but you’re wrong about Pre-Tribulation being unheard of before 200yrs ago. Early church fathers did believe and discuss it. Irenaeus (2nd century) being one of them.
I have been soaking in info from both sides of the argument and so far Dr. Gene Kim has the most influential pro Pre-Tribulation arguments. He claims dispensationalism is undeniable when thought of rationally and with a measured approach. He blames hyper-dispensationalists, like Darby, for giving dispensationalism a bad rap, as with anything taken to extremes.
https://youtu.be/nboxWhqQd-8?si=8PZbfh61gn6_0qj_
As far as Zionism goes, I tend to agree with you that most pastors and churches think about Israel too much as the land with physical borders rather than the nation of Israelite group of men and women that God made a covenant with. The land mass known as Israel is mostly filled with the synagogue of Satan.
Nice straw man fallacy.
I said "virtually unheard of" as in it was not even remotely a mainstream Christian eschatological position.
I'm not sure if you're just being intellectually dishonest and trying to misrepresent me or you just didn't read what I said.
Either way my point still stands.
The men that founded this country weren't premillennial dispensationalists. They were thinking generations ahead unlike people that believe in the rapture.
I'll end with these words from Jesus.... "This generation shall not pass till all these things take place"
Belief in the rapture and a future tribulation makes Jesus a liar.
He said that approximately 32 AD and Rome was destroyed in 70 AD. You know who felt pretty damn tribulated? Christians around the time.
Look brother, sorry I misread and didn’t notice “virtually” as I should have.
Now step back and use the same straw man fallacy on yourself. Belief in the rapture does not make Jesus a liar. Jesus’ statement and Pre-Tribulation can both be true. There are strong arguments that the tribulation that Jesus was talking about was a different tribulation. There is not just a singular tribulation in the Bible. There are many uses of the word tribulation and Christians are warned that they will face many tribulations in life. However, there is distinction made for a Great Tribulation, Jacob’s Trouble. It’s possible that the destruction of Rome and the last week (7yrs) of Danial’s prophecy, Jacob’s Trouble, are separate events and both true as well. As I said, Jesus and a pre-tribulation rapture can both be true and coexist. Btw, that very argument is addressed, and quite well, by Dr. Kim using the Bible to cite the Bible. That’s called rightly dividing. Using scripture to hone one’s understanding of other scripture. Something Timothy advises us to do.
I honestly don’t even understand why you are even bringing the founding fathers of this country into this biblical argument? They have no relevance whatsoever.
The bottom line is nobody knows the mind of God and certain details of His word. Perhaps that is why Paul speaks of being caught up, pre-trib rapture, as one of the mysteries revealed to him directly from Jesus. It had never been spoken of before that. Paul reveals it.
Peace brother. Numbers 6-24-26
Eschatology matters.
If you think you're about to be yeeted up into heaven any day, you're not going to start a project you're great grandchildren will have to finish. You're not going to go settle a new nation.
The founding Fathers did not have a defeatist view of eschatology. Dispensationalist churches, on the whole, have minimal impact on culture from what I've experienced. They dont fight and take dominion.
My Church wrote the amicus brief that overturned Roe v Wade and we run EndAbortionNow.com and churches all over the world too fight abortion and a biblical manner. We also have bills of full abolition pending all over the nation. The majority of the churches that sign up with us and fight this fight are post-millennial and amillennial.
In the last days it will be like in the days of Noah. The ark is obviously symbolic of Christ. Remind me what happens to those in the ark vs those not in it? I believe the wicked were swept away and destroyed while those in the ark remained.
Then we have the parable of the wheat and the tares ... They are gathered together and fire (judgment) comes and the weeds are burnt and only the wheat remains.
I could go on and on but I doubt we'll agree. Fortunately it's not a salvific issue.
At least we agree that it does not affect salvation. Saying it represents a defeatist view of eschatology is a bit ignorant though.
Would a Pre-Tribber with a defeatist view of eschatology fight so hard and loud to be a nationally known figure? Would they be invited to the White House on multiple occasions to counsel President Trump? Would a they open and fund Christian schools? Would they fight censorship by creating their own Christian media network? Would they host other front line anti-abortion warriors and apologists as guest speakers at their pulpit often? Because these are just a few of the things my pastor and our church are known for. He and we are well known nationally for the political fight we bring everyday. We do not have a defeated mindset. We do not sit back and wait.
On the contrary a pre-tribulation that can anytime spurns action. We keep busy about The Lord’s work to get as much done as we can for we know not the hour. We are vigilant in our obedience to express our love since Jesus can show up anytime. This is why we take every opportunity to share His love with others. We need to bring as many with us as possible and the hour is late.
I say all this not to brag but to give you understanding that your view that Pre-Mil Pre-Trib beliefs are defeatist views of eschatology is simply wrong. It’s quite the opposite.
As for the biblical reasons for it I leave you with all my research notes:
1 Thessalonians 4
Mat 24 (speaks of post Trib)
1Cor 15 (Pre-Trib)
Rev 5 (tribulation starts in 6)
Rev 1
Jer 30
Rom 11
Dan 9
2Thes 2 ( used as proof text of no pre-trib)
Rom 13
2Thes 1
Col 3
Tribulation = hardship. Believers are in tribulation right now.
Rev2
Mat24
Jesus and Paul teach Pre-Trib 1Thes 5
Luk21
Non Bible historical evidences
Apostolic Bretheren 13th/14th centuries.
Dispensationalism before Darby Ancient Dispensationalism
Why must there be a pre-tribulation rapture of the church?
1B) Why does the Rapture need to happen? It is a church event. Predominately gentile event.
1C) What purpose does the Rapture serve?
When will the rapture happen? 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2Â For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3Â For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4Â But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Â Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Â Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7Â For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8Â But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9Â For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Differences between Pre and Rapture. One umbrella covers both. Each one is from its own perspective. Bride of Christ (the church) it is an imminent event with no prerequisites and for Tribulation saints (not members of the body of the church) there are prerequisits.
The Rapture:
Correct!
ka-BOOM!!
Our greatest ally
Who committed an act of war by attacking one of our warships, nearly sinking it and killing our sailors.
Ian is not just BASED but on FIRE! Expose baby, expose!
People need to understand these are the true mafia of the world. The real Deep State. No group has such power and reach in modern history, ever.
Not only is Elon giving the most basic bitch arguments in that video, but some of the shit he's pedaling about helping "rebuild" is either full on ignorant or outright sinister.
Pretty interesting
Bump.
so? what is the big deal?
(don't attack me for playing the role of brain dead npc, just tell why it is so important)
It feels like a breakthrough to the masses of the truth about Israeli American relationship and seemingly will lead to how (((they))) [zionists] have acted as minions for satan & infiltrated all levels of media, government, culture and most recently, corporations successfully controlling media narratives by playing victim/screeching “antisemitism!!!” But their vice grip is breaking.
Here comes the ban hammer?
God wins! WWG1WGA
Israel is the CCP we hear about! People think that it refers to China! Command and Control Program actively ran out of Israel! Politicians bribed, blackmailed or eliminated by the Zionist Khazarian Mafia! Infiltration instead of invasion!