What would Jesus do?
(www.theamericanconservative.com)
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I know, it's a 180 from what we're told. We also know the open policy of Rome is anti-Freemasonry, but that is also showing signs of being more nuanced. https://www.asianews.it/news-en/Vatileaks.-There's-a-little-of-everything-in-the-documents-seized-from-Gabriele:-the-Pope's-letters,-plus-papers-on-Freemasonry,-esotericism,-the-P2-Lodge,-Calvi,-Berlusconi,-yoga,-Buddhism-25989.html
The Founding Fathers were Freemasons. The original Freemasons were more Gnostic in their beliefs, which is why, in my opinion, they were infiltrated by the R.C.C. slightly before the Civil War. The R.C.C. again were trying to eradicate Gnosticism.
The R.C.C. hijacked Christianity and Freemasonry.
The Gnostic teach that the God of this world is an Evil God. Jesus claims this also;
John 8:44
You (the Jews) belong to your father (Yhwh), the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
False. Jesus was drawing a distinction between the adherents of God and the adherents of the devil, according to their willingness to hear (or not hear) His Word. He did not call God the devil. Reading passages 31-47 makes that clear.
I never said he was speaking to the Jews at large. I quoted verse 31: To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples".
This is not what I read at all, verse 32-33: Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. 33 ”They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
The Jews thought that Jesus was speaking of "physical" slavery, but he was speaking of "spiritual" slavery, the slavery of sin. Jesus clarifies this in the next verse, Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
The following verses is where it gets confusing because they are speaking about three different fathers; Abraham, Yhwh, and Jesus' Father/God.
Im using the NIV version of the Bible for this argument.
Jesus says in verse 37 I know you are Abraham descendants yet you are looking for a way to kill me.
That is a very important YET, Jesus knows Abraham is a good guy and would trust in what Jesus was teaching Yet, the Jews want to kill him for his teachings. Jesus goes against their father's laws given to Moses
Verse 38 clarifies this; I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.
Jesus is distinguishing The Father from your father. This also confused the Jews because the next verse the Jews say, "Abraham is our father". In the next verse Jesus clarifies again that Abraham is righteous.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
Its clear that Jesus is talking about Three Different Fathers.
Jesus never says the name of his father.
Yhwh is never mentioned by name in the New Testament.
In the first part of John 8, Jesus goes against Yhwh's laws given to Moses, this is why the Jews want to kill him. This is how we know Jesus is against Yhwh because He said not to stone the woman.
John 8:19 - They said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father". If Yhwh was Jesus' father they would know who he is.
Yhwh is mention 50 times in the Old Testament and is stated in
Isaiah 63:16
אַתָּ֤ה - ’at-tāh - You [are]
יְהוָה֙ - Yah-weh - Yahweh
אָבִ֔ינוּ - ’ā-ḇî-nū, - Our Father
Jesus is calling the father of the Jews, Yahweh the Devil.
No, Jesus was saying the Jews wanted to kill him because of his words, and were following their fathers desires by trying to kill him.
verse 44 ...and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer...
Yhwh is a known murder in the Old Testament, He commanded his people to commit genocide, killed little children, wiped out the entire world population in one fell swoop, sent plagues and devastation, and created a world full of people but decided to only reveal Himself and his rules to one group of people.
This Is Not Jesus' Father.
You are telling me nothing new, except to involve the name Yahweh, which I never found in my Bible (Geneva). The point is, he was speaking to those Jews who were speaking TO HIM. Not about all Jews
It is true that the RCC, via the Jesuit Order, infiltrated Freemasonry, which at the time did not appear to be a nefarious group, though a Christian could likely call it harmful to faith in Christ. Regardless of that, the man who started the Illuminati was trained by the Jesuits and was a professor at Canon Law. The Illuminati started in 1776, right as America's government was being formed. They soon infiltrated America through the masonic lodges. You now had a parallel, and nefarious side of Freemasonry doing all it could to make sure America's sovereign growth was stifled, undermining it at every turn. And now history is a blur; one can't help but presume malice on the part of our Founders due to them being a part of the now tarnished 'Freemasonry'.
As to the 'good God / evil God' thing, that's called Marcionism. It is a false teaching promulgated by people who haven't had the holy Spirit open the eyes of their understanding, and so they cannot read the Old Testament properly. Give me a verse you have a problem with in the Old Testament and I'll show you why it's there. Jesus wasn't calling YHWH the devil, he was telling the Scribes and Pharisees that they did not know YHWH (even though they knew about YHWH) and that they were in fact children of the devil, not of YHWH like they presumed.
In the Hebrew mind, being a child of someone doesn't only mean you're descended from them, but also that you take after their character. What Jesus was saying was that they did not take after the character of YHWH.
YHWH is not an evil God. YHWH punishes evil and delights in what is right and good.
u/AmateurExpert or u/LateToTheShow might have more thoughts on this
...one can't help but presume malice on the part of our Founders due to them being a part of the now tarnished 'Freemasonry'. - What's your opinion of their documents then? Specifically the Constitution, how do you square that?
I strongly disagree, Jesus says "You belong to your father, the devil", nothing about Scribes or Pharisees in John 8, what version of the Bible are you using? Where do you read that he is speaking to Scribes and Pharisees? Yhwh is the Jews Father, Whom Jesus calls the Devil.
I think Q even hinted at this:
QPost #998
The "Chair" serves the Master.
Who is the Master?
P = C.
Q
QPost #290
[Thor]
Thor being a Norse God points us to the Rune.
P = The Rune P
P = Thor (Thunraz)
C = The Rune C
C = Ulcer = a moral blemish or corrupting influence
Confirms Thor is "The Master"
Thor = Indra / Zeus / Yahweh (all Storm/Rain Gods, all the same God)
The God of the Winged Wheel Coin confirms Yhwh is the same as Zeus.
1000000% false.
Marcionism is a definite heresy, and I don’t throw that word around lightly. There are plenty of sketchy doctrines that can be overlooked, but that’s not one of them.
Among the many questions you’re bypassing to make that claim - and I’m not going to bring up everything I could:
I’m not going to tell you more than that because in your current state, you would just trample it, but I assure you, there are few things that I will assert that I know with 100% certainty, and it is that Yeshua came in accordance with YHWH’s Will, which is good.
However you came to this conclusion, you should look at it again with fresh eyes. If YHWH is false, Jesus is false, and Christianity is false. You cannot remove the foundation and still have the building. YHWH’s character is not false. Yeshua’s character is not false. Lots of “Christian” doctrine is false. Go back to the scriptures and re-examine your foundational principles and understandings.
u/winn
No, he was not speaking to "Jews" at large. He was speaking to Jews who thought that descent from Abraham was all they needed to be sons of God. Jesus was pointing out that being so depended on whether they heeded the Word of God, not whether they were descendants of Abraham. And if they did not heed the Word of God, they were children of the devil.
I believe God, in His divine purposes on the earth, inspired the Constitution, through and despite imperfect men.
You need to go back to the beginning of John 8. Look at verse 3 and verse 13 specifically to understand Jesus' audience during this passage. Verse 44 isn't a stand-alone passage, it has a ton of context.
As to all that rune stuff I think you're going into absurdity. Afaik the P and C posts were related to the Vatican and the pope.
If you really think Jesus was calling the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob the devil, you need to do some serious research and reading the OT. The NT is literally laced with OT references and Jesus Himself made a ton of them. What He was saying to those Pharisees could be summed up like this:
"You say you're the children of YHWH, but you're actually the children of the devil"