Well, gee, when somebody puts a microphone in front of my mouth, how do I know which words are mine and which come from the microphone?
Do you have a computer? Do you use it to communicate? Do you have any problems with the computer taking over your conversations or correspondence? I mean, we must have at least half a century of exposure to sneaky, treacherous electronic technology behind the keyboard. Surely, this must be happening even now!
I took care of someone with ALS for years, he was a quadraplegic, and he used a sip and puff to control his computer. I feel he would have put himself on the list to be a neuralink recipient.
A good friend of mine came down with Parkinson's Disease. The tremors got so bad on one side he elected to have a control-mediating chip implanted in his skull. It did wonders to mitigate the tremors. But it was a battle. It still came at him from the other side, and he had that implant as well. Toward the end, it was still a struggle, because the Parkinson's was interfering with his ability to articulate his speech. He died not long after that, with complications from pneumonia. I think his breathing was affected by the Parkinson's.
I have no patience or sympathy for the point of view that we cannot use technology to alleviate misery. I was on the fast track for dying of congestive heart failure, but an open-heart surgery was able to repair (not replace) my mitral valve to 98% full function. Where was my father and his father when they were my age? In graves. But according to the purists, I am not supposed to have this titanium wire in my heart holding my mitral valve together. Often, with age, people get cataracts and become functionally blind. The old treatment was to remove the cataracted lens and live with powerful spectacles. Now we can replace the cataracted lens with a SYNTHETIC lens and restore good and clear vision. I used to work at a company that made such lenses, and I was responsible for advancing the techniques for optical quality control. So, the purists would say "to hell with these synthetic lenses"? You just wait until impairment finds you and sits on you, and then give lectures about how noble it is to suffer in order to avoid anything "synthetic."
Neat I guess...I mean if it helps the guy for the rest if his days fine...
Screw whatever implied "Google brain" fantasy for the masses there is ...
What stands out for me is, once again, in "tower of Babel" fashion, the extent to which they'll go with a synthetic "solution" vs just legitimately understanding and curing ALS. It's pretty sick actually...
So, because we can't "cure" broken legs we should abandon casts and crutches? Because we can't "cure" visual impairments, we should abandon glasses and optical implants? Because we can't cure advanced diabetes, which can result in amputation of legs, we should abandon wheelchairs?
This is what they mean when they say that "Perfect" is the enemy of "Good Enough."
Not everything in life is black and white, Deathraydesigner.
You know this & have deliberately avoided getting the point, as you so often do.
Suppressed cures exist for many things. Ivermectin, Fenbendazole, DSMO, etc.
Not even gonna go there trying to explain, because you still won't get it... probably because you don't actually want to get it ... that's the game you play some days. 🙄
Go piss in somebody else's Cheerios... because I'm not in the mood for your bullshit today... Have a nice day.
I know this and I have worked in the prosthetics industry. I have personally benefited from medical technology. I've known people who had neural implants. Which, I think, is more than anyone else is bringing to this discussion.
There is no "suppressed cure" for Lou Gehrig's Disease. There is no "suppressed cure" for a flailing mitral valve. There is no "suppressed cure" for a broken leg. There is no "suppressed cure" for presbyopia. All these things are mitigated by technology. Ivermectin, etc., are not used to replace technological treatment.
There is nothing "black and white" when it comes to dealing with serious disability. Everyone has to make their own decision. But most people choose the technology because they want a whole life, not a fraction of a life. And that is the point that you purists disdain.
We all use computers, hackers and malware notwithstanding. Nobody thinks at all about abandoning computers. The benefits clearly outweigh the risks. You have fantasy fears about biomedical technology from seeing scary science fiction movies, and yet people enthuse about having a self-driving automobile (known to kill people on some occasions). Here Musk has made it possible for someone who was hardly more able than a coma patient to now communicate by thinking. That is a huge up-side. The down-side is hypothetical.
No cures that anyone knows of. To make lens implants we used high-precision injection molding and measured the optical power with equipment that I designed. I had years with my friend who actually HAD brain implants, and got to see how that fared with him. What exactly do you bring to the table except scoffing?
This logic always kills me: "Well, you don't know EVERYTHING, therefore in my ignorance I am at least as smart as you are." Not really. You want to dismiss all technological assists for infirmity because you demand a "cure." Just because you demand it, doesn't mean it will be there. Perhaps there will be down-sides, yes. But that is for the patient to consider. I was banking on a mitral valve repair, not a valve replacement...because the replacement only lasts so long and must be repeated farther down the road. Plus, after working in the prosthetics business, I became very respectful of Original Equipment. I imagine my friend found the implant to be inconvenient. But I am quite sure he found the tremors to be a much greater inconvenience, and obstacle.
But anyway, you are just terrified of shadows of your own imagination. The present technology can map from brain impulses to letters. We have no idea how to map from ideas into brain impulses (and back into ideas), and I doubt we ever will. Sensation is at the lowest end of the vast mountain of intelligence. We have done pretty well with artificial sensation. Artificial perception is harder and it is slow going (I worked in that area). And it gets more complex and subtle above those.
Problem is that it's probably only voluntary the first time. Once it's in there, there's really no way to fully guarantee there will be no outside interference.
I would not get the implant for augmenting my senses, instant internet access, etc. Not interested in being a cyborg.
It will be much easier to suppress/enhance emotions than it will be to implant or filter thoughts. Hardware for that level or processing won't fit in your head.
However, if I needed this technology to walk, talk, see, any large quality of life issue that can't otherwise be solved I would probably get it.
I am old enough to need to wear glasses now. Going from "everything is blurry" to "wow I can see!" proves this out. I want to function as fully as I can.
That guy used to host karaoke at a local restaurant I attended weekly with at risk youth in our competition gear. Brad always thought we were weird, (we certainly were) but was really kind to us and made sure those kids had a great time.
He looked so familiar & then I saw the younger pics, it clearly was him.
I need to see if I can get in touch with him, maybe my old boss has his number if I can find it & give him a visit. I miss the guy & had no idea this happened to him.
That said, I trust his opinion of Nueral link as a user. Looking at the implant & what he was saying, I am glad this is helping him.
If I can find him, and if he lives close to here still, I would love to learn more directly from him about this process.
edit - Moved from Provo area to AZ, if ever I get around to visiting some friends down that way, I will need to reconnect with him.
Monthly service fee for autonomy over your body. No thank you, Elon.
Who says our thoughts are ours right now.
Don't get the chip.
I get augmentation surgeries that change your abilities as the goal.
But this, I can't see how this is any different than any other technology you use.
This gives people a chance to live more meaningful lives.
Dude isn't magneto. He's a father who gets to now tell his children he loves them.
Do we need to have these discussions? Absolutely. Is there a line somewhere we shouldn't cross? Absolutely.
So let's find that balance. For that is the way of offering.
Well, gee, when somebody puts a microphone in front of my mouth, how do I know which words are mine and which come from the microphone?
Do you have a computer? Do you use it to communicate? Do you have any problems with the computer taking over your conversations or correspondence? I mean, we must have at least half a century of exposure to sneaky, treacherous electronic technology behind the keyboard. Surely, this must be happening even now!
I took care of someone with ALS for years, he was a quadraplegic, and he used a sip and puff to control his computer. I feel he would have put himself on the list to be a neuralink recipient.
A good friend of mine came down with Parkinson's Disease. The tremors got so bad on one side he elected to have a control-mediating chip implanted in his skull. It did wonders to mitigate the tremors. But it was a battle. It still came at him from the other side, and he had that implant as well. Toward the end, it was still a struggle, because the Parkinson's was interfering with his ability to articulate his speech. He died not long after that, with complications from pneumonia. I think his breathing was affected by the Parkinson's.
I have no patience or sympathy for the point of view that we cannot use technology to alleviate misery. I was on the fast track for dying of congestive heart failure, but an open-heart surgery was able to repair (not replace) my mitral valve to 98% full function. Where was my father and his father when they were my age? In graves. But according to the purists, I am not supposed to have this titanium wire in my heart holding my mitral valve together. Often, with age, people get cataracts and become functionally blind. The old treatment was to remove the cataracted lens and live with powerful spectacles. Now we can replace the cataracted lens with a SYNTHETIC lens and restore good and clear vision. I used to work at a company that made such lenses, and I was responsible for advancing the techniques for optical quality control. So, the purists would say "to hell with these synthetic lenses"? You just wait until impairment finds you and sits on you, and then give lectures about how noble it is to suffer in order to avoid anything "synthetic."
Neat I guess...I mean if it helps the guy for the rest if his days fine...
Screw whatever implied "Google brain" fantasy for the masses there is ...
What stands out for me is, once again, in "tower of Babel" fashion, the extent to which they'll go with a synthetic "solution" vs just legitimately understanding and curing ALS. It's pretty sick actually...
So, because we can't "cure" broken legs we should abandon casts and crutches? Because we can't "cure" visual impairments, we should abandon glasses and optical implants? Because we can't cure advanced diabetes, which can result in amputation of legs, we should abandon wheelchairs?
This is what they mean when they say that "Perfect" is the enemy of "Good Enough."
Not everything in life is black and white, Deathraydesigner.
You know this & have deliberately avoided getting the point, as you so often do.
Suppressed cures exist for many things. Ivermectin, Fenbendazole, DSMO, etc.
Not even gonna go there trying to explain, because you still won't get it... probably because you don't actually want to get it ... that's the game you play some days. 🙄
Go piss in somebody else's Cheerios... because I'm not in the mood for your bullshit today... Have a nice day.
I know this and I have worked in the prosthetics industry. I have personally benefited from medical technology. I've known people who had neural implants. Which, I think, is more than anyone else is bringing to this discussion.
There is no "suppressed cure" for Lou Gehrig's Disease. There is no "suppressed cure" for a flailing mitral valve. There is no "suppressed cure" for a broken leg. There is no "suppressed cure" for presbyopia. All these things are mitigated by technology. Ivermectin, etc., are not used to replace technological treatment.
There is nothing "black and white" when it comes to dealing with serious disability. Everyone has to make their own decision. But most people choose the technology because they want a whole life, not a fraction of a life. And that is the point that you purists disdain.
We all use computers, hackers and malware notwithstanding. Nobody thinks at all about abandoning computers. The benefits clearly outweigh the risks. You have fantasy fears about biomedical technology from seeing scary science fiction movies, and yet people enthuse about having a self-driving automobile (known to kill people on some occasions). Here Musk has made it possible for someone who was hardly more able than a coma patient to now communicate by thinking. That is a huge up-side. The down-side is hypothetical.
No cures that YOU know of... Running a stump grinder lathe making prothetics hardly qualifies you as resident expert on brain implants.
Do you really need me to explain to you the "things that you don't know, you don't know" pie chart?
"Cure" for a broken leg...dude GTFOOH with that strawman crap. Take the perceived victims you speak of with you.
Anytime anyone starts listing qualifications on the net, they pretty much disqualify themselves.
No cures that anyone knows of. To make lens implants we used high-precision injection molding and measured the optical power with equipment that I designed. I had years with my friend who actually HAD brain implants, and got to see how that fared with him. What exactly do you bring to the table except scoffing?
This logic always kills me: "Well, you don't know EVERYTHING, therefore in my ignorance I am at least as smart as you are." Not really. You want to dismiss all technological assists for infirmity because you demand a "cure." Just because you demand it, doesn't mean it will be there. Perhaps there will be down-sides, yes. But that is for the patient to consider. I was banking on a mitral valve repair, not a valve replacement...because the replacement only lasts so long and must be repeated farther down the road. Plus, after working in the prosthetics business, I became very respectful of Original Equipment. I imagine my friend found the implant to be inconvenient. But I am quite sure he found the tremors to be a much greater inconvenience, and obstacle.
But anyway, you are just terrified of shadows of your own imagination. The present technology can map from brain impulses to letters. We have no idea how to map from ideas into brain impulses (and back into ideas), and I doubt we ever will. Sensation is at the lowest end of the vast mountain of intelligence. We have done pretty well with artificial sensation. Artificial perception is harder and it is slow going (I worked in that area). And it gets more complex and subtle above those.
Wow that dude is really Mormon. People normally try to hide it, not use Momon coded phrases but apparently he isn't into that.
As long as 1 it's fully voluntary. 2 secure from hackers as in you can physically kill the connection. I will support this.
Problem is that it's probably only voluntary the first time. Once it's in there, there's really no way to fully guarantee there will be no outside interference.
I would not get the implant for augmenting my senses, instant internet access, etc. Not interested in being a cyborg.
It will be much easier to suppress/enhance emotions than it will be to implant or filter thoughts. Hardware for that level or processing won't fit in your head.
However, if I needed this technology to walk, talk, see, any large quality of life issue that can't otherwise be solved I would probably get it.
I am old enough to need to wear glasses now. Going from "everything is blurry" to "wow I can see!" proves this out. I want to function as fully as I can.
Hard pass.
That guy used to host karaoke at a local restaurant I attended weekly with at risk youth in our competition gear. Brad always thought we were weird, (we certainly were) but was really kind to us and made sure those kids had a great time.
He looked so familiar & then I saw the younger pics, it clearly was him.
I need to see if I can get in touch with him, maybe my old boss has his number if I can find it & give him a visit. I miss the guy & had no idea this happened to him.
That said, I trust his opinion of Nueral link as a user. Looking at the implant & what he was saying, I am glad this is helping him.
If I can find him, and if he lives close to here still, I would love to learn more directly from him about this process.
edit - Moved from Provo area to AZ, if ever I get around to visiting some friends down that way, I will need to reconnect with him.