I had occasion recently to read John Marshall's biography of George Washington, which was de facto a pocket history of the War for Independence and the first two terms of Washington's presidency. According to Marshall, the two parties were the Federalists and the Democrats. I have read elsewhere that historians inserted the name "Democrat-Republican Party" in order to distance the original Democrats from their descendants. The original Democrats were fascinated with the French Revolution and its politics, and believed in deficit spending...and not paying debts. The apple has always had its worm.
It was an amazing insight. They have been politically wicked from their beginning, over all the same issues (including slavery). The biography is well worth reading. It is intelligently written and the history is so unique, it is like learning our early history completely anew. The military science was not high technology, but it was very well thought out. Dealing with a feckless Congress in the course of a war was an unparalleled frustration. Washington may not have been perfect, but he was essentially a saint, and the only man the entire nation trusted. He was Honor walking on two legs. The day will come, in the Hereafter, when he and Trump will meet and shake hands, brothers separated by centuries.
Aristotle wrote the History and description of Eighteen hundred Republicks, which existed before his time. Cicero wrote two Volumes of discourses5 on Government, which, perhaps were worth all the rest of his works. The works of Livy and Tacitus &c that are lost, would be more interesting than all that remain. Fifty Gospells have been destroyed, and where are St. Lukes World of Books that had been written?
If you ask my Opinion, who has committed all the havoc? I will answer you candidly; Ecclesiastical and Imperial Despotism has done it, to conceal their Frauds.
Why are the Histories of all Nations, more ancient than the Christian6 Era, lost? Who destroyed the Alexandrian Library? I believe that Christian Priests, Jewish Rabbis Grecian Sages and Roman Emperors had as great a hand in it as Turks and Mahomitans.
Democrats, Rebells and Jacobins ♦, when they possessed a momentary Power, have Shewn a disposition, both to destroy and to forge Records, as vandalical, as Priests and Despots. Such has been and Such is the World We live in,
♦ Jacobins = The Society of the Friends of the Constitution, renamed the Society of the Jacobins, Friends of Freedom and Equality after 1792 and commonly known as the Jacobin Club or simply the Jacobins, was the most influential political club during the French Revolution of 1789.
Democrats, Rebells and Jacobins ♦, when they possessed a momentary Power, have Shewn a disposition, both to destroy and to forge Records, as vandalical, as Priests and Despots. Such has been and Such is the World We live in,
Somewhat of an ironic observation. Especially given the nature of the Country’s own founding. But I suppose even by that time it was becoming readily apparent that the powers that be. Especially since Jefferson and Adam’s were both out of power, or at their very least their influence was starting to wane, by this time. Were seeking to create a narrative surrounding the founding that was as much myth, and misinformation as it was actually based off of real events. Not to mention the ongoing and steady expansion of the Franchise to more and more people than originally envisioned.
Why are the Histories of all Nations, more ancient than the Christian6 Era, lost? Who destroyed the Alexandrian Library? I believe that Christian Priests, Jewish Rabbis Grecian Sages and Roman Emperors had as great a hand in it as Turks and Mahomitans.
According to what knowledge we do have. An extraordinary amount of the purges of records were primarily spearheaded by Christians and Christianized Roman Emperors. They also went about converting the Empires citizens at Sword Point. Which lead to the destruction of lots of private records outside of the main temples and repositories they previously purged. Along with the Deaths of many of those who could afford to keep repositories and records. And had the required education and means to do so.
The Turks and Muslims were essentially a second wave that took care of much of what the Emperors and Christians missed the first go rounds. Even quite a bit of Romes own history prior to Christianity wasn’t safe from the purges.
The statement especially describes the modern day Democrat party; hence why I shared the meme and the source from which I took the most relevant portions of the statement.
I agree it describes the modern day democrat party. But you took a quote totally out of context which isn't relative. It makes the meme disingenuous. Adams, and Jefferson to whom he was corresponding, were both in the Democrat-Republican Party. Adams was referring to any party, religious organization, rulers or philosophers such as the Christian Church, Jewish rabbis and Greek sages. Along with Emperors who held sway at the time. Not modern democrats.
It was Jefferson who was a part of the Democrat-Republican party. Adams was a federalist and his letter to Jefferson reveals an animosity that he held, not against Jefferson himself, but in a general sense, against the Democrats of his day. If it were not so, he would have made no mention of them and therefore must have had reason to list them amongst the parties he hated. If any of his reasons for his hatred of Democrat-Republicans of his day were justified, it would only go to show that the seeds of evil and corruption were already being sown within the party from its very beginning regardless of Jefferson's intentions and purpose for the party might have been and thus a careful study of its history from its beginning until today would give us insight as to how it became what it is today.
For the time being, I am going to give Adams the benefit of the doubt in that he knew more about what was going on within the Democrat-Republican party than either one of us and if the seeds of corruption and wickedness were present within the party during the days of Adams, how much more so today and how much more relevant applicable is his statement in which the Democrats of his day are included.
But since you wish to discuss perceived inaccuracies of the meme, I must then point out an inaccuracy on your part in that Adams held no hostility to the Christian faith or even the Church itself as he often spoke favorably of the faith and even came to its defense after the publishing of Thomas Paine's infamous "Age Of Reason,
For in his defense of the Christian faith, Adams stated:
"The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in
ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity, and humanity, let the
blackguard [rogue, scoundrel] Paine say what he will; it is resignation to God, it is goodness itself to man."
Adams was only opposed to the corruptions or what he at least perceived to be corruptions within the Church of which he often speaks as well, but not the Christian faith in and of itself.
It was Jefferson who was a part of the Democrat-Republican party. Adams was a federalist and his letter to Jefferson reveals an animosity that he held, not against Jefferson himself, but in a general sense, against the Democrats of his day. If it were not so, he would have made no mention of them and therefore must have had reason to list them amongst the parties he hated.
Do your homework in depth.
John Adams was Pro-Administration (before 1795), Federalist (1795 – 1808) and a Democratic-Republican (from 1808) until his death. The correspondence between him and Jefferson (of which the linked letter is one) was after they had both left government. The letters were to settle the feud between them.
The reason why John Adams had become a Democratic Republican is because the federalist party no longer existed after the defeat of John Adams' bid for a second Presidential term. The defeat that the federalists had suffered was so devastating that they ceased to exist as a viable political party and as a consequence, the country was essentially either under one-party rule or at least dominated by one party for several decades until the formation of the Republican Party shortly before the Civil War. After the dissolution of the federalist party, John Adams simple had no choice but to become a Democratic-Republican, but then again, whether they liked it or not, neither did anyone else. Until the rise of the Whigs and free-soiler parties---the free-soilers being an abolitionist party---no one had a choice as to what political party to align themselves with.
As for the final letters between Jefferson and Adams, there is a very interesting story behind what began the resumption of their friendship as the reconciliation between Adams and Jefferson had been inspired by a dream or vision given to their mutual friend, Benjamin Rush:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Sounds like an oxymoron
For next time you post:
urls aren't allowed in post titles, it's in the sidebar rules.
I had occasion recently to read John Marshall's biography of George Washington, which was de facto a pocket history of the War for Independence and the first two terms of Washington's presidency. According to Marshall, the two parties were the Federalists and the Democrats. I have read elsewhere that historians inserted the name "Democrat-Republican Party" in order to distance the original Democrats from their descendants. The original Democrats were fascinated with the French Revolution and its politics, and believed in deficit spending...and not paying debts. The apple has always had its worm.
Well, that would give some insight as to why John Adams hated the Democrats of his day.
It was an amazing insight. They have been politically wicked from their beginning, over all the same issues (including slavery). The biography is well worth reading. It is intelligently written and the history is so unique, it is like learning our early history completely anew. The military science was not high technology, but it was very well thought out. Dealing with a feckless Congress in the course of a war was an unparalleled frustration. Washington may not have been perfect, but he was essentially a saint, and the only man the entire nation trusted. He was Honor walking on two legs. The day will come, in the Hereafter, when he and Trump will meet and shake hands, brothers separated by centuries.
Even way back then, they knew.
So you mean antebellum era Democrats as in the group that eventually became the modern day Republican Party?
The quote is taken out of context. John Adams was writing to Thomas Jefferson and they were both members of the Democratic-Republican Party.
The Letter. The quote with more context:
♦ Jacobins = The Society of the Friends of the Constitution, renamed the Society of the Jacobins, Friends of Freedom and Equality after 1792 and commonly known as the Jacobin Club or simply the Jacobins, was the most influential political club during the French Revolution of 1789.
Somewhat of an ironic observation. Especially given the nature of the Country’s own founding. But I suppose even by that time it was becoming readily apparent that the powers that be. Especially since Jefferson and Adam’s were both out of power, or at their very least their influence was starting to wane, by this time. Were seeking to create a narrative surrounding the founding that was as much myth, and misinformation as it was actually based off of real events. Not to mention the ongoing and steady expansion of the Franchise to more and more people than originally envisioned.
According to what knowledge we do have. An extraordinary amount of the purges of records were primarily spearheaded by Christians and Christianized Roman Emperors. They also went about converting the Empires citizens at Sword Point. Which lead to the destruction of lots of private records outside of the main temples and repositories they previously purged. Along with the Deaths of many of those who could afford to keep repositories and records. And had the required education and means to do so.
The Turks and Muslims were essentially a second wave that took care of much of what the Emperors and Christians missed the first go rounds. Even quite a bit of Romes own history prior to Christianity wasn’t safe from the purges.
The statement especially describes the modern day Democrat party; hence why I shared the meme and the source from which I took the most relevant portions of the statement.
I agree it describes the modern day democrat party. But you took a quote totally out of context which isn't relative. It makes the meme disingenuous. Adams, and Jefferson to whom he was corresponding, were both in the Democrat-Republican Party. Adams was referring to any party, religious organization, rulers or philosophers such as the Christian Church, Jewish rabbis and Greek sages. Along with Emperors who held sway at the time. Not modern democrats.
It was Jefferson who was a part of the Democrat-Republican party. Adams was a federalist and his letter to Jefferson reveals an animosity that he held, not against Jefferson himself, but in a general sense, against the Democrats of his day. If it were not so, he would have made no mention of them and therefore must have had reason to list them amongst the parties he hated. If any of his reasons for his hatred of Democrat-Republicans of his day were justified, it would only go to show that the seeds of evil and corruption were already being sown within the party from its very beginning regardless of Jefferson's intentions and purpose for the party might have been and thus a careful study of its history from its beginning until today would give us insight as to how it became what it is today. For the time being, I am going to give Adams the benefit of the doubt in that he knew more about what was going on within the Democrat-Republican party than either one of us and if the seeds of corruption and wickedness were present within the party during the days of Adams, how much more so today and how much more relevant applicable is his statement in which the Democrats of his day are included.
But since you wish to discuss perceived inaccuracies of the meme, I must then point out an inaccuracy on your part in that Adams held no hostility to the Christian faith or even the Church itself as he often spoke favorably of the faith and even came to its defense after the publishing of Thomas Paine's infamous "Age Of Reason,
For in his defense of the Christian faith, Adams stated:
"The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity, and humanity, let the blackguard [rogue, scoundrel] Paine say what he will; it is resignation to God, it is goodness itself to man."
(Definition of blackguard added)
https://oll-resources.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/oll3/store/titles/2101/Adams_1431-03_EBk_v6.0.pdf
Adams was only opposed to the corruptions or what he at least perceived to be corruptions within the Church of which he often speaks as well, but not the Christian faith in and of itself.
Do your homework in depth.
John Adams was Pro-Administration (before 1795), Federalist (1795 – 1808) and a Democratic-Republican (from 1808) until his death. The correspondence between him and Jefferson (of which the linked letter is one) was after they had both left government. The letters were to settle the feud between them.
The reason why John Adams had become a Democratic Republican is because the federalist party no longer existed after the defeat of John Adams' bid for a second Presidential term. The defeat that the federalists had suffered was so devastating that they ceased to exist as a viable political party and as a consequence, the country was essentially either under one-party rule or at least dominated by one party for several decades until the formation of the Republican Party shortly before the Civil War. After the dissolution of the federalist party, John Adams simple had no choice but to become a Democratic-Republican, but then again, whether they liked it or not, neither did anyone else. Until the rise of the Whigs and free-soiler parties---the free-soilers being an abolitionist party---no one had a choice as to what political party to align themselves with.
As for the final letters between Jefferson and Adams, there is a very interesting story behind what began the resumption of their friendship as the reconciliation between Adams and Jefferson had been inspired by a dream or vision given to their mutual friend, Benjamin Rush:
To John Adams From Benjamin Rush October 17, 1809
https://founders.archives.gov/?q=Correspondent%3A%22Adams%2C%20John%22%20Correspondent%3A%22Rush%2C%20Benjamin%22&s=1111311111&r=147
From John Adams To Benjamin Rush October 25, 1809
https://founders.archives.gov/?q=Correspondent%3A%22Adams%2C%20John%22%20Correspondent%3A%22Rush%2C%20Benjamin%22&s=1111311111&r=148
To John Adams From Benjamin Rush December 5, 1809
https://founders.archives.gov/?q=Correspondent%3A%22Adams%2C%20John%22%20Correspondent%3A%22Rush%2C%20Benjamin%22&s=1111311111&r=149
From John Adams To Benjamin Rush December 21, 1809
https://founders.archives.gov/?q=Correspondent%3A%22Adams%2C%20John%22%20Correspondent%3A%22Rush%2C%20Benjamin%22&s=1111311111&r=150
Indeed, Q told us there has been a lot of record forging. u/#q4495
I do not see how any of this bears relevance to the meme I posted.
It was an accidental copy/paste. Thanks for pointing it out!
Can you link the actual document? I can't seem to get to it. Thanks.
Try this. You may have to copy/paste it if all else fails. Hope this works. https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-06-02-0230
Thank you very much! That worked.