Imagine 90 million Iranians, 80+% of which want the regime gone. Imagine Israel taking very effective steps that show Iran's republican guard is a paper tiger.
The world has the ball and is in front of an open goal.
How can Americans benefit? Do you think the world would maybe be a better place if Iranians can undo the revolution of 46 years ago?
Btw, I am a pro-Trump Libertarian and doing away with the regime would for sure be the moral thing to do, especially considering how efficiently and with low cost in human life it has been going so far.
Also, listen to Iranians. They know what is up and they know what Iranians want. They know that no boots on the ground are going to be needed.
It's just another forever war, it's always this or that at the start. Nek minit, it's 10 years and $100 billion. Someone has to stop it all, it seemed like it was going to be GEOTUS, but it seems not. So Israel doesn't like Iran this year, they didn't like Assad earlier on, we know they don't like Turkey - are they next on the kosher menu? After that, how about Pakistan? Will they need to be de-nuked next year? Where does it end?
I don't think that of Trump at all, it's a very MSM thing to resort to standard binary thinking.
However, a leader cannot be so definitive as Trump is trying to be on this complex matter, about geopolitical outcomes. We are in a multipolar world. Just because GEOTUS says something it doesn't mean it will be so, he said he would end the Ukraine conflict as soon as he took Office. He did not manage that. Did that mean he was some blowhard neocon? No, of course not.
He is just a man. A great man, indubitably, but he is still just a man.
And this movement is so strong because it refutes blindly following the orders of those who set themselves up as better than us. This movement is strong through critical thinking and refusing to comply when things don't make sense.
Starting a new conflict in a far away land, when that land has powerful allies, and the only obvious reason for it is to appease Zionist genocidal lunatics doesn't make any sense.
If you can make it make sense to me (without sounding as bought as Ted Cruz sounded when Tucker interviewed him) then I am completely open to reversing my position.
I wanted to start off with my appreciation for you wanting to engage in an open dialogue, even with differing viewpoints. It's refreshing to see willingness to discuss, which isn't always common here amongst the members here with the similar sentiments as yours.
The notion of a multipolar world overlooks the unipolar reality shaped by the past century. However, fostering a multipolar world should be and is the goal, and the Abraham Accords set an aspirational framework for achieving it. The unipolar world is the anomaly as Rubio put it and the goal is for the US to no longer be the world’s police force and in doing so there needs to be self-policed regional powers, that is antithetical to the globalist elite.
I am a Zionist by the truest sense of the definition. It simply means that the belief that Jews have the right to live and govern in their ancestral homeland. Like the French can have France, Japanese have Japan, etc... Anyone that believes that is a Zionist, that includes Arab Israelis and quite frankly anyone that believes in a 2 state solution, and there are even Zionist verses in the Quran. It does not mean blind support for Israeli leadership or Mossad. Even I have extreme reservations in ever moving there considering their Covid response and I have very open questions that have yet to be answered on their slow response on Oct 7, 2023.
That said, I cannot make it make sense to you as I completely disagree with that framework that Israel are a bunch of genocidal maniacs. They go to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties that are faced with an impossible task of having to rescue their people that have been kidnapped into the most dense civilian areas in the world in an underground network the size of the London Underground. You believe it’s the IDF responsible for Palestinian deaths, where I blame the Islamo-Fascists and Hamas that put their own people in harms way and those casualties are unavoidable no matter the lengths. All civilian lives needs to be protected - a Palestinian child is equal to an Israeli child. To call it genocide, which requires intent to eradicate a race is just not there and only used as a rhetorical device that does not meet reality.
Could you have a similar sentiment to me if (God forbid) the Mexican Cartel flew over into San Diego, raped, tortured, and kidnapped American civilians and started hiding under hospitals and schools in Mexico?
I agree with you on this movement has being strong in the face of strongest propaganda during the pandemic and I’m grateful for this community during those times and Biden years in general. But I am not seeing the same critical thinking amongst you lot on this issue; some of you have this bug planted inside that cannot be solved in this forum that only a precipice/singularity event can.
Now to the issue at hand with Iran. I think it’s simple - America First means the IRGC can’t have nuclear weapons. Doing so would completely destabilize the Middle East and the globe as a whole. Israel is little satan to the IRGC, and do you know who big Satan is? It would be completely naive to lull yourself into a sense of security, while their regime has increased it’s uranium enrichment capacity from 20% to 60% during the Biden regime, while calling for your downfall on a daily basis. That said, this doesn’t mean a forever war or boots-on-the-ground to achieve that goal - as a small clandestine force, or sharing bunker buster technology to reach centrifuges 200m below ground could be enough. The circumstances/and motivations are different then Iraq (2003) or Afghanistan (2009) but I can also understand the hesitations due to previous neocon administrations considering what their motivations were. I don't expect to change your mind. I ask not that you believe me but only that you consider, or perhaps understand this voice for a later time.
Imagine 90 million Iranians, 80+% of which want the regime gone. Imagine Israel taking very effective steps that show Iran's republican guard is a paper tiger.
The world has the ball and is in front of an open goal.
How can Americans benefit? Do you think the world would maybe be a better place if Iranians can undo the revolution of 46 years ago?
Btw, I am a pro-Trump Libertarian and doing away with the regime would for sure be the moral thing to do, especially considering how efficiently and with low cost in human life it has been going so far.
Also, listen to Iranians. They know what is up and they know what Iranians want. They know that no boots on the ground are going to be needed.
It's just another forever war, it's always this or that at the start. Nek minit, it's 10 years and $100 billion. Someone has to stop it all, it seemed like it was going to be GEOTUS, but it seems not. So Israel doesn't like Iran this year, they didn't like Assad earlier on, we know they don't like Turkey - are they next on the kosher menu? After that, how about Pakistan? Will they need to be de-nuked next year? Where does it end?
So was Trump lying that he said the war won't last long? Do you think Trump to be some Neocon like Bush or Obama?
Its important that you take a man at his actions these days, and not his words.
So far we are at what… a week or two?
Has he had protracted military engagements with anyone yet?
It seems like the m/o has pretty reliably been: Trump shows up, beats the shit out of his enemies, does what’s needed, and leaves.
I don't think that of Trump at all, it's a very MSM thing to resort to standard binary thinking.
However, a leader cannot be so definitive as Trump is trying to be on this complex matter, about geopolitical outcomes. We are in a multipolar world. Just because GEOTUS says something it doesn't mean it will be so, he said he would end the Ukraine conflict as soon as he took Office. He did not manage that. Did that mean he was some blowhard neocon? No, of course not.
He is just a man. A great man, indubitably, but he is still just a man.
And this movement is so strong because it refutes blindly following the orders of those who set themselves up as better than us. This movement is strong through critical thinking and refusing to comply when things don't make sense.
Starting a new conflict in a far away land, when that land has powerful allies, and the only obvious reason for it is to appease Zionist genocidal lunatics doesn't make any sense.
If you can make it make sense to me (without sounding as bought as Ted Cruz sounded when Tucker interviewed him) then I am completely open to reversing my position.
I wanted to start off with my appreciation for you wanting to engage in an open dialogue, even with differing viewpoints. It's refreshing to see willingness to discuss, which isn't always common here amongst the members here with the similar sentiments as yours.
The notion of a multipolar world overlooks the unipolar reality shaped by the past century. However, fostering a multipolar world should be and is the goal, and the Abraham Accords set an aspirational framework for achieving it. The unipolar world is the anomaly as Rubio put it and the goal is for the US to no longer be the world’s police force and in doing so there needs to be self-policed regional powers, that is antithetical to the globalist elite.
I am a Zionist by the truest sense of the definition. It simply means that the belief that Jews have the right to live and govern in their ancestral homeland. Like the French can have France, Japanese have Japan, etc... Anyone that believes that is a Zionist, that includes Arab Israelis and quite frankly anyone that believes in a 2 state solution, and there are even Zionist verses in the Quran. It does not mean blind support for Israeli leadership or Mossad. Even I have extreme reservations in ever moving there considering their Covid response and I have very open questions that have yet to be answered on their slow response on Oct 7, 2023.
That said, I cannot make it make sense to you as I completely disagree with that framework that Israel are a bunch of genocidal maniacs. They go to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties that are faced with an impossible task of having to rescue their people that have been kidnapped into the most dense civilian areas in the world in an underground network the size of the London Underground. You believe it’s the IDF responsible for Palestinian deaths, where I blame the Islamo-Fascists and Hamas that put their own people in harms way and those casualties are unavoidable no matter the lengths. All civilian lives needs to be protected - a Palestinian child is equal to an Israeli child. To call it genocide, which requires intent to eradicate a race is just not there and only used as a rhetorical device that does not meet reality.
Could you have a similar sentiment to me if (God forbid) the Mexican Cartel flew over into San Diego, raped, tortured, and kidnapped American civilians and started hiding under hospitals and schools in Mexico?
I agree with you on this movement has being strong in the face of strongest propaganda during the pandemic and I’m grateful for this community during those times and Biden years in general. But I am not seeing the same critical thinking amongst you lot on this issue; some of you have this bug planted inside that cannot be solved in this forum that only a precipice/singularity event can.
Now to the issue at hand with Iran. I think it’s simple - America First means the IRGC can’t have nuclear weapons. Doing so would completely destabilize the Middle East and the globe as a whole. Israel is little satan to the IRGC, and do you know who big Satan is? It would be completely naive to lull yourself into a sense of security, while their regime has increased it’s uranium enrichment capacity from 20% to 60% during the Biden regime, while calling for your downfall on a daily basis. That said, this doesn’t mean a forever war or boots-on-the-ground to achieve that goal - as a small clandestine force, or sharing bunker buster technology to reach centrifuges 200m below ground could be enough. The circumstances/and motivations are different then Iraq (2003) or Afghanistan (2009) but I can also understand the hesitations due to previous neocon administrations considering what their motivations were. I don't expect to change your mind. I ask not that you believe me but only that you consider, or perhaps understand this voice for a later time.