God has a different opinion than the writer when it comes to sin, including the sin of homosexuality. Go get your Bibles and read I Cor 6:9-11. There is a list of sins that people practice that keeps them out of Heaven, and homosexuality is one of them.
There's a marked difference between a practicing homosexual characterized by indulging in and pursuing their same-sex lusts, and a same-sex oriented individual who is actively and consciously attempting to keep their desires in check. Just like for the heterosexual. The fact that one is more biologically aberrant than the other does not make a difference as to the biblical standards of sexual purity.
But of course, any public "criticism" of the practicing homosexual needs to be seriously toned down and marked by genuine humility and non-judgmentalism, since the overall human condition is nowhere admirable, especially with regards to every kind of selfish ambitions and sexual immoralities vs the one-man-one-woman bonded in self-giving love standard from the beginning. Need proof? Just look at the heterosexual divorce rates within the professing Christian demographics. Not looking good.
There's a marked difference between a practicing homosexual characterized by indulging in and pursuing their same-sex lusts, and a same-sex oriented individual who is actively and consciously attempting to keep their desires in check. Just like for the heterosexual. The fact that one is more biologically aberrant than the other does not make a difference as to the biblical standards of sexual purity.
One is an abomination before The Lord, the other act was designed by God.
But of course, any public "criticism" of the practicing homosexual needs to be seriously toned down and marked by genuine humility and non-judgmentalism,
No. Sin is sin. The Church has absolutely no place to embrace sin, but rather to call it out and reject it. You have a fundamental problem if you are arguing to ignore sin in people's lives and accept it.
since the overall human condition is nowhere admirable, especially with regards to every kind of selfish ambitions and sexual immoralities vs the one-man-one-woman bonded in self-giving love standard from the beginning. Need proof? Just look at the heterosexual divorce rates within the professing Christian demographics. Not looking good.
Man's imperfections do not reflect on God's plan nor His Will for us. That's such biblically horrible statement.
That's pretty much my point. People are hypocrites. And as such, are not worth the aggravation they generate.
I took several Bible study courses in college. And homosexuality shows up in it only a handful of times.
The last time I had this conversation here, the person I was speaking with tried to use the word "fornication" when I asked him to give me more than 5 verses involving homosexuality. And no, they're not the same thing.
But if you'd like to show me that the Bible discusses homosexuality more than I've claimed, I would be happy to read it.
It doesn't matter what most people care about or choose to focus on. What matters is what God says. Sin is a sin is a sin and whataboutism doesn't change that fact.
Spoken like a true hypocrite. Saying that the only thing that matters is what God says while you gallop through life, throwing out judgements like they're Mardi Gras beads.
No, I'm flat out saying that people who hate on homosexuals because of the Bible are nothing but hypocrites.
If they were really concerned with what God thought was an abomination, they would be out there screaming "God hates women wearing jeans!" and "God hates incense!" and all the other things God hates.
But do they do that? Nope. Why? Because they couldn't give less of a shit what God does or does not hate.
For whatever reason, they decided they didn't like gay people, so then they use the Bible as their shield whilst they sling shit at others.
They're hypocrites and cowards.
And I don't have any respect for hypocrites and cowards.
Yes, but all these sins can be forgiven. Here is the passage. Focus on verse 11, where it says “..and such WERE some of you”, but they were redeemed and saved. Praise be to God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NKJV
[9] Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, [10] nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
You are washed and made whole... with repentance and a desire to do better, and by genuinely accepting Christ. You cannot accept Christ and refuse to repent from your sin.
The Bible speaks several times about a refusal to move away from sin. Condoning any sin in your life and acting as if it is okay is a fundamentally flawed understanding of God's Word.
I agree. I also think OP is right, having known a number of gays. But some things are best kept in the bedroom. You won't see me marching down the street waving my missionary position flag, although sometimes exasperated, I have suggested it.
Repentance is between you and Jesus. Or.. Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else? Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Most heterosexuals have fornicated at some point in their lives. If they do not repent of these sins, they too will not inherit the kingdom of God.
FORNICA'TION, noun [Latin fornicatio.]
1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2. Adultery. Matthew 5:32.
3. Incest. 1 Corinthians 5:1.
4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chronicles 21:11, Revelation 19:2.
Being attracted to somebody of the same sex is not immoral. It's a temptation.
It's immoral to act on those temptations, assuming you believe the Bible is the Word of God.
If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, and that is your choice, who cares what a Bible believing Christian thinks?
To speak the points of the OP, it's worth reading on-
Galatians 5:24-26
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
So we should be loving one another and not provoking them, especially if we're puffing ourselves up in the process.
The second you think you're better than another sinner because you don't commit the sins they're guilty of is the second you need to humble yourself and repent of your sinful pride.
Fine, I would agree with all this. Sorry—are there some sins that are "OK" and others that are worse? Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else? Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
Sorry—are there some sins that are "OK" and others that are worse? Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else? Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
Not sure where these questions are coming from based on my post, but I'll answer them.
Are there some sins that are "OK" and others that are worse?
Acts 10:34-35
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
To God, sin is sin. Sin is transgression of the law.
Doesn't matter whether it's adultery or theft or a little white lie. It's all sin.
The Roman Catholics do differentiate and refer to some sins as mortal and some sins as venial, but that mostly had to do with how much you had to pay a priest for "forgiveness" in the form of indulgences.
Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else?
If you try not to sin under your own power, you're probably going to fail miserably.
If somebody is on a 1500 calorie diet, what would be a more noble response if they gave into their temptations and ate 3000-5000 calories one day before reaching their goal weight?
Would quitting the diet altogether and gaining 30 lbs. over the course of the next year be more noble than admitting to themselves they made a mistake and getting back on track with 1500 calories the next day?
The "nobleness" comes from sinners admitting they've sinned, repenting of those sins and praying for forgiveness, and getting back up after they fall down, regardless of how many times they fail.
Proverbs 24:16
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
On that note, I feel it's worth noting the advice given to those tempted by sexual sins specifically, and again, this doesn't matter whether it's heterosexual or homosexual temptations -
Flee! Run away!
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
2 Timothy 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
That's what He said.
But here's an even more important question? When the accusers left, did Yeshua tell the woman to continue sinning?
John 8:10-12
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Repentance is between you and Jesus. Or.. Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else? Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
God has a different opinion than the writer when it comes to sin, including the sin of homosexuality. Go get your Bibles and read I Cor 6:9-11. There is a list of sins that people practice that keeps them out of Heaven, and homosexuality is one of them.
The only sin that keeps you out of heaven is rejecting Christ.
That being said, homosexuality is regarded al throughout The Bible as an abomination, and it is objectively a sin.
There is a HUGE difference for asking forgiveness from a sin, and trying to justify a sin and refusing to repent or fix your ways.
Ding ding ding. The correct answer.
There's a marked difference between a practicing homosexual characterized by indulging in and pursuing their same-sex lusts, and a same-sex oriented individual who is actively and consciously attempting to keep their desires in check. Just like for the heterosexual. The fact that one is more biologically aberrant than the other does not make a difference as to the biblical standards of sexual purity.
But of course, any public "criticism" of the practicing homosexual needs to be seriously toned down and marked by genuine humility and non-judgmentalism, since the overall human condition is nowhere admirable, especially with regards to every kind of selfish ambitions and sexual immoralities vs the one-man-one-woman bonded in self-giving love standard from the beginning. Need proof? Just look at the heterosexual divorce rates within the professing Christian demographics. Not looking good.
One is an abomination before The Lord, the other act was designed by God.
No. Sin is sin. The Church has absolutely no place to embrace sin, but rather to call it out and reject it. You have a fundamental problem if you are arguing to ignore sin in people's lives and accept it.
Man's imperfections do not reflect on God's plan nor His Will for us. That's such biblically horrible statement.
Sin is sin. You do not get to commit more sin against someone just because they're a sinner.
You are a sinner too. That is the entire basis of Christianity. We all are. It is repentance of our sins before God that saves us all.
Sounds self-righteous. I think you may be a homo.
Homosexuality is mentioned about five times in the Bible.
Adultery is mentioned probably hundreds.
But most people don't care much about adultery.
Definitely more than 5, and very few things are talked about as negatively as, "an abomination."
Simply because others are hypocritical doesn't justify it in God's view.
That's pretty much my point. People are hypocrites. And as such, are not worth the aggravation they generate.
I took several Bible study courses in college. And homosexuality shows up in it only a handful of times.
The last time I had this conversation here, the person I was speaking with tried to use the word "fornication" when I asked him to give me more than 5 verses involving homosexuality. And no, they're not the same thing.
But if you'd like to show me that the Bible discusses homosexuality more than I've claimed, I would be happy to read it.
It doesn't matter what most people care about or choose to focus on. What matters is what God says. Sin is a sin is a sin and whataboutism doesn't change that fact.
Spoken like a true hypocrite. Saying that the only thing that matters is what God says while you gallop through life, throwing out judgements like they're Mardi Gras beads.
And this is relevant why? Are you attempting to straw man the argument by suggestion that anyone who thinks homosexuality is a sin supports adultery?
No, I'm flat out saying that people who hate on homosexuals because of the Bible are nothing but hypocrites.
If they were really concerned with what God thought was an abomination, they would be out there screaming "God hates women wearing jeans!" and "God hates incense!" and all the other things God hates.
But do they do that? Nope. Why? Because they couldn't give less of a shit what God does or does not hate.
For whatever reason, they decided they didn't like gay people, so then they use the Bible as their shield whilst they sling shit at others.
They're hypocrites and cowards.
And I don't have any respect for hypocrites and cowards.
Yes, but all these sins can be forgiven. Here is the passage. Focus on verse 11, where it says “..and such WERE some of you”, but they were redeemed and saved. Praise be to God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NKJV [9] Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, [10] nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
You are washed and made whole... with repentance and a desire to do better, and by genuinely accepting Christ. You cannot accept Christ and refuse to repent from your sin.
https://www.gotquestions.org/unrepentance-unrepentant.html
The Bible speaks several times about a refusal to move away from sin. Condoning any sin in your life and acting as if it is okay is a fundamentally flawed understanding of God's Word.
What does GO AND SIN NO MORE mean?
Did you even read my comment?
No.
Oh ok, so there is no sin now?
Hear that everybody? Go have premarital sex and frequent gay orgies! Mathew 2 means nothing now! He was just joking or something!
God can forgive ANYTHING.
Doesn't mean we're to tolerate degeneracy being openly promoted. Including homosexuality.
I agree. I also think OP is right, having known a number of gays. But some things are best kept in the bedroom. You won't see me marching down the street waving my missionary position flag, although sometimes exasperated, I have suggested it.
There is absolutely a difference between flaunting of sexuality in the streets and just being gay.
Gay pride is bullshit. Always has been, always will be.
But not every gay person participates or condones that, and yet they are told many awful things by people here.
Only if you repent
Repentance is between you and Jesus. Or.. Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else? Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
It's safe to say that anyone who defends flaunting and promoting homosexuality in front of all society has not repented.
"You will know them by their fruits".
I'm not judging anyone. The bible does that for me.
They don't have to repent to you.
Never said they did. Nice attempt to spin it. Major fail though
You're right. The choice to repent of our sins and seek forgiveness is up to us, though.
Galatians 5:19-23
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Most heterosexuals have fornicated at some point in their lives. If they do not repent of these sins, they too will not inherit the kingdom of God.
FORNICA'TION, noun [Latin fornicatio.]
1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2. Adultery. Matthew 5:32.
3. Incest. 1 Corinthians 5:1.
4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chronicles 21:11, Revelation 19:2.
Being attracted to somebody of the same sex is not immoral. It's a temptation.
It's immoral to act on those temptations, assuming you believe the Bible is the Word of God.
If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, and that is your choice, who cares what a Bible believing Christian thinks?
To speak the points of the OP, it's worth reading on-
Galatians 5:24-26
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
So we should be loving one another and not provoking them, especially if we're puffing ourselves up in the process.
The second you think you're better than another sinner because you don't commit the sins they're guilty of is the second you need to humble yourself and repent of your sinful pride.
Fine, I would agree with all this. Sorry—are there some sins that are "OK" and others that are worse? Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else? Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
Not sure where these questions are coming from based on my post, but I'll answer them.
Acts 10:34-35
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
To God, sin is sin. Sin is transgression of the law.
Doesn't matter whether it's adultery or theft or a little white lie. It's all sin.
The Roman Catholics do differentiate and refer to some sins as mortal and some sins as venial, but that mostly had to do with how much you had to pay a priest for "forgiveness" in the form of indulgences.
If you try not to sin under your own power, you're probably going to fail miserably.
If somebody is on a 1500 calorie diet, what would be a more noble response if they gave into their temptations and ate 3000-5000 calories one day before reaching their goal weight?
Would quitting the diet altogether and gaining 30 lbs. over the course of the next year be more noble than admitting to themselves they made a mistake and getting back on track with 1500 calories the next day?
The "nobleness" comes from sinners admitting they've sinned, repenting of those sins and praying for forgiveness, and getting back up after they fall down, regardless of how many times they fail.
Proverbs 24:16
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
On that note, I feel it's worth noting the advice given to those tempted by sexual sins specifically, and again, this doesn't matter whether it's heterosexual or homosexual temptations -
Flee! Run away!
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
2 Timothy 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
That's what He said.
But here's an even more important question? When the accusers left, did Yeshua tell the woman to continue sinning?
John 8:10-12
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Repentance is between you and Jesus. Or.. Is there a "trying not to sin but failing" that's more noble than anything else? Did Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," or no?
Publicly boasting in sin isn't a sign of repentance
Repentance is required