I read through the indictment, which is posted here:
https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf
CAUTION: This document does NOT look like the real document, since there are no dates and other items that should be there. But since it is the only one I've seen, I will go with it.
- There are 34 counts (i.e. 34 alleged violations of law).
- They are all related to "keeping accurate business records" by the Trump Organization.
- You and I are not subject to the State snooping through our records just for fun, but if you form a corporation or other "creature of the State," then you agree to having its books and records inspected at anytime. So, they are claiming that the Trump Organization did not keep accurate records, and further alleging that it was done to hide some crime.
- Each of these records are in 3 forms: invoices from attorney Michael Cohen, checks paid out based on these invoices, and ledger entries on the books and records of the Trump Organization related to these invoices and checks.
- They were events that occurred between February 2017 and December of 2017.
- Trump was POTUS during that time, and Eric Trump or the CEO of the Trump Organization would most likely have been handling these invoices and payments, not Donald Trump (although the indictment does not give any detail on that).
- All 34 counts are for violations of New York Penal Law 175.10, "Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree."
- In order to be in the "first degree," there must be a violation of NY Penal Law 175.05, "Falsifying Business Records in the Second Degree," which means it must be (a) false and (b) done with intent to defraud, AND (c) to be in the First Degree, it must have been in order to hide some other crime.
https://newyork.public.law/laws/n.y._penal_law_section_175.10
https://newyork.public.law/laws/n.y._penal_law_section_175.05
The indictment does not allege any facts that would indicate what "other crime" was being committed or hidden, nor does it allege what "intent to defraud" was.
It looks like a very sloppy, amateurish work on the DA's part. But maybe that's just how sloppy law is practiced in New York. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.
These laws all fall under the general category of fraud. I have heard that these charges are beyond the statute of limitations, which I have heard is 2 years in New York.
However, this chart indicates that for fraud it is 6 years:
https://nycourts.gov/CourtHelp/GoingToCourt/SOLchart.shtml
It also says misdemeanors are 2 years and "other felonies" (not those listed) are 5 years.
So, 2 years and 5 years are already over. If it is 6 years, then the February and March 2017 charges are already past the statute of limitations.
So ...
They are going to claim that Trump was the head of the Trump Organization in 2017, directing its actions even though he was in the White House, and that the Trump Organization falsely stated what Michael Cohen's invoices were for and what the payments were for and that the ledger entries were falisified to defraud ... who? That is an element that would have to be proven (along with proving that Trump was directing it all).
WHO was defrauded? What evidence is there? Stormy Daniels says there was no affair to cover up. So, the public could not be harmed (not that real American law recognized such a nonsense in the first place). No individuals were harmed, even if it were fraud, and there is no evidence that there was any fraud.
Then, they would have to prove it was all done to cover up some other crime which is NOT alleged in the indictment. That seems like a BIG problem, since if the prosecution does not inform the defendant on what the full extent of the charges are, then it is impossible to defend.
The rumor has been they will allege he was doing it all to hide an affair during a presidential election -- which is federal jurisidiction, not State jurisdiction -- but that is just a RUMOR. It is NOT stated in the indictment (if this document is the real copy of the indictment).
The entire thing looks like a monkey running a kangaroo court.
Would this fly in an American court? Never.
But would it fly in a corrupt New York court? Maybe.
This is going to be YUUUUGE BOOMerang moment!
We already know there is no case for many reasons. But here is another:
He wasn’t running the organization at this time.
Trump hands over business empire to sons Published - [12 January 2017]
u/#correct
In the Statement of Facts - which is a document that always accompanies an indictment case, you can find it here: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741892/donald-j-trump-sof.pdf -- Trump personally signed over 50 checks for the Trump Organization during that time which is proof he was still acting as an executive in some capacity for the Trump Organization.
I would read the Statement of Facts, it answers a lot of questions.
So weird, Alvin. It doesn’t say “signs checks”. It’s almost like having operational control is something different than signing a few checks.
CEO: A chief executive officer (CEO) is the highest-ranking executive in a company. Broadly speaking, a chief executive officer’s primary responsibilities include making major corporate decisions, managing the overall operations and resources of a company, acting as the main point of communication between the board of directors and corporate operations. In many cases, the chief executive officer serves as the public face of the company.
I get what you're saying, read the SoF, it goes into much more detail, that was just the example I was giving. They also cite several times Trump said publicly in rally's that he wasn't giving up control of the Trump Organization and took calls and operated as an executive.
Only the fake news was saying that. What Trump actually SIGNED was this:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3404759/DJT-Resignation-Signature-Page-With-Exhibit-a.pdf
The important part of the 19-page letter reads: “I, Donald J. Trump, hereby resign from each and every office and position I hold” in more than 400 entities listed on the following pages.
The letter is signed by Trump and dated January 19, the day before he was sworn in. There is no real wiggle room in this signed document.
Except he never filed the proper paperwork in any of those cities. I don't blame him, I wouldn't either, but facts are facts. Glenn Greenwald reported on it, search the intercept for July of 2020.
What I linked was not a letter of "intent". Cities don't regulate corporations, states do. Even then, what is the "proper paperwork" for resigning a role, besides the letter I linked? He didn't give up ownership. He could make up a new role tomorrow called Chief Falafel Maker, assign himself to it, then resign next week. No paperwork needed.
The closest I can get to your argument is, the COMPANY may have some obligations to provide updates on its new executive structure. But really, that makes my argument. It would have nothing to do with Trump.
What?
He claimed he resigned from the company, then continued to run his same role as before with never filing the change of executive leadership paperwork in those different states where the companies operate.
It's a pretty simple concept, even you should be able to understand it.
Totally agree with you, but the whole point of this is to hang it over PDJT's head going into the 2024 election season. The first court hearing isn't until Dec 2023. We can all see clearly where this is headed....same playbook, same script....different cast.
Thank you for doing this. I didn’t want to spend my entire day trying to figure it out. I greatly appreciate your time and effort that you put into this, so I did not have to. 🙏👍💕
Thank you for laying that out for us, Fren.
Well if they can’t specify what crime is being covered up by the supposed falsified business records, they have nothing. I’m sure Trump’s lawyers will file a motion to dismiss based on this.
You need to read the Statement of Facts, they never go into detail in the indictments, you can find it here: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741892/donald-j-trump-sof.pdf
The more I look at this the more I think it's all part of a public awakening that former President's can be charged. They obviously have no case. But since we are now all allowed to look we get to open the books on EVERYONE. Let the bodies hit the floor.
Not to doom but you have smooth brain jurors with DTS that will convict cause orange man bad.
Bring that to PW. We're bloomers not gloomers.
Optics.
Finally the charge him. Sets a precedent. Yet, after all this time this is the worst they got?
And even a jury of TDS trannies will agree its nothing. So Trump can claim he's incredibly squeeky clean. Many haters will be exhausted and finally wonder if he's not so bad and tune into a rally and think wtf?
Combat tactics, Mr Ryan
I hope so and I hope this opens the door to get the scum in jail.
But it’s Good Friday this week and Easter. Perhaps Trump will rise 😊
It seems pretty straightforward: Look at the books and see if they match up with receipts. It doesn't take a smooth-brain to see if it is all above board (which it will be).
But people with TDS don’t care. They want to convict.
If that happens it will be appealed.
I wonder if they could get a mistrial due to not being able to get an impartial jury in NY. It would violate the 6th amendment to not have an impartial jury.
I seem to recall when PDJT took the Presidency, he signed his companies over to his children until he was no longer President. I remember that being a thing. So, in that case, he wasn't even doing anything with his companies at the time, therefore it was not him, even if it was felonies.
In the statement of facts, you can find it here: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741892/donald-j-trump-sof.pdf - they explain he was still signing checks and attending meetings at the Trump Organization, so he was still acting as an executive there. He also apparently never filed the transfer paperwork properly? I dunno.
Thanks fren.
So since the Cabal mirrors what they’ve actually done, I’ll assume there will be 34 actual Felony counts against Biden or Obama, or even HRC? I hope so!
Probably a lot more than that.
https://twitter.com/DawsonSField/status/1643340257125978115 sums I think..
That's not really how the law works.
Trump does not need to be present in NY to falsify records or have his employees falsify records. And, his employee, Michael Cohen, already plead guilty and was convicted of falsifying records for the Trump Organization at Trump's behalf during that time frame.
I agree these charges are stupid, but not for that reason. Capone was convicted of tax fraud in DC and he never lived or worked there.
How can it be election interference when he is already president in Feb 2017 wne payments were made
I think this case is stupid, but I want this to be factual.
The payments happened before that time, the bookkeeping happened in Feb 2017, the crime is basically for cooking the books and covering up what the payments were for, that's why they are for while he was in office. The reason he can be charged is because he never fully signed over the Trump Organization and he was still signing checks and acting as an executive.
This document says he resigned from all businesses on Jan 19, 2017 just before inauguration.
enter text
We have to understand how awesome of a moment this really is.
Its a Broadway Show, complete with a dinner of Commies dining on themselves.
Booring !
It's laid out in conspiracy format. But Bragg says he doesn't have to charge conspiracy. That's the other there that isn't there
Thanks, I was wondering why the multiple charges on the same days and the invoice, check, ledger explains it. But since the charge is falsifying records, shouldn't only the ledger be the charge? Question, I don't have the time to dig, did Cohen invoice say for legal service of did it say for Stormy payment? Then did the ledger entry say for something different than the invoice was for?
In Bragg's presser he claimed the other crime was election interference and I rolled on the floor laughing since the first charge came Feb 14, 2017 over 4 months AFTER the election
Yeah, so I think the angle here is that the state wants to prove state laws were broken indeed to cover up a federal law with the hopes that the DOJ can then catch the baton and reexamine the case from a federal vantage point.
Discovery is a beautiful thing. Did Hillary pay Stormy in the first place? Extortion? We shall see....
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here because you're not looking at the DA's Statement of Facts which is a document that always accompanies an indictment to help with the case. It explains in great detail (13 pages) all of the questions you are asking.
If you just read the indictment it will look sloppy, because that's how indictments are written, they are supposed to be succinct and only include the charges, the Statement of Fact goes over all of the reasoning behind the charges, you can find it here: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741892/donald-j-trump-sof.pdf
For the SoL, because Trump was not able to be prosecuted during his four years in office, the SoL is paused. There is some basic precedent for that.
Also, the part about Trump directing the actions of the Trump Organization is pretty clear - at least what they say in here - he physically signed more than 50 checks during 2017 that were for the TO, so that indicated his actions as leading and he hadn't signed over the TO to Eric.
The crime and fraud that is being covered up is very clear in the documents: "From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York.
The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme. 3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant.
Lawyer A made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign contribution and 1 served time in prison. Further, false entries were made in New York business records to effectuate this payment, separate and apart from the New York business records used to conceal the payment."
Again, I think this is all bullshit, but I want to be factual here and make sure that we are looking at the big picture, I've seen a lot of pundits on TV just reading the indictment and saying there is nothing there. That's like reading the cover of a book and saying there is no real content.
So - please give us a logical defense. You said SoL was paused, so using that defense is out. Do you explain that the 'encounter' never occurred? How do you dismiss cohen's claim when he actually went to prison for that 'lie'. (Cohen's was also to do with malarkey with the taxi medallion, I realize.) Give us some logical holes to look for in the coming discussions.
Lastly - I would look really, really hard at whoever put those checks in front of DJT to sign after the transfer date. His transfer of the TO to Eric was so public that even me on my couch in rural America knew when and why it happened. Surely, everybody in TO knew when/why it happened and those checks should never have been set in front of DJT. Unless some operative was already in the org. Companies are not that lackadaisical about these types of things. Especially the accounting and legal drones in large organizations.
I'd look twice at that transfer, every city he was supposed to file paperwork in to do the transfer said the transfer never happened, Trump even publicly said in a bunch of rallies he never did the transfer. Glenn Greenwald did some reporting on it in July of 2020.
Right, the CEO "transfer paperwork" that every city requires. 🙄
I think so. President Trump is apparently being charged with crimes committed by the National Enquirer. Last I checked, the NE has nothing to do with the Trump Organization.
The case says he had a kid with her!
In the statement of facts it says Trump paid some Doorman 30k to keep quiet about him having a baby with some random woman. Who knows. I'd never heard that case before.
I remember a story that he gave/still gives a formerly homeless woman free rent in Trump Tower on the 6th floor. Woman looks to be in her 60s. Suppose he had a kid with her too? Trump gives money out 'just because'. Doorman was probably getting some kind of bonus for being friendly. Doorman has no idea where anybody goes after they pass his point of entry post.Trump Tower rent free story
We won't know that until the evidence is listed. Right now that is all sealed until the trial begins and the defense can see it all. The defense hasn't seen any evidence in this case yet, so anything they say is kind of premature.
Way better - well yes but not hard. She has that Playboy Plastic Centerfold look.