Presidential Records Act v. Espionage Act
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Clearly this falls under Presidential records.
It is absurd to pretend that he sold secrets. This is prosecutorial over-reach.
How many times did Comey say w.r.t. HRC's classified bathroom server and hammer beaten phones, that NO Reasonable Prosecutor would charge her??
W.r.t. = "with regard to" yes? Had a hard time with that one. 😅
Sorry! I usually think of it as "with respect to" but your take might be correct.
I love this German one: u.s.w.u.s.f.
und so weiter und so fort = and so on and so forth
Too bad I can so seldom use it! ; )
Works well in English ... ASO&SF ... if we didn't already have etc.
But of course we do have etc. which I make frequent use of! ; )
but I like the charm of u.s.w.u.s.f. which, as said, I can very seldom use.
I'm gonna start using ASO&SF just to be annoying
Kek. Mix in a few yyy's ... 4 yada yada yada y'know. 😁
It's always a wonder the type of people who come on this board and LEARN SOMETHING that I have NEVER heard before...
All I can say....YOU guys rock....
Think next time I just might be using a Lexicon Dictionary...Food for thought!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I concur! Love my anon family! 🤗
w.r.t. is usually with respect to. I've seen it a few times
They are not saying he sold secrets.
https://jnslp.com/2022/12/02/willfulness-and-the-harm-of-unlawful-retention-of-national-security-information/
The Mike Davis commentary explains (inferentially) that the Espionage Act cannot apply to personal documents, because they are not "Presidential documents" nor "Government documents." Nor does the Presidential Record Act prevent the President from retaining custody over classified Presidential documents.
Basically, none of this can touch the President, because one branch of government (Legislative/Congress) cannot dictate the behavior of another branch (Executive/President). Any such regulation comes from the Constitution.
I understand they become personal records once they leave the WH and the president has sole discretion to decide what is and isn’t personal. Nobody else has the authority to label any of those records national security related and demand their return.
Exactly. All authority in the Executive branch reposes in the President. He is not subordinate to any Executive agency or even an act of Congress. The agencies cannot tell him what he is allowed to see, and he is the ultimate classification / declassification authority.
He's pulling a sleight of hand
This is absolutely true
This part is false
It absolutely does prevent a former president from retaining custody of presidential documents. That's the reason the law was created.
I learned two things tonight.
One Classified documents are often not Presidential documents because there's and exclusion in the law for agency documents.
The second thing is Trump's lawyers are upset with Tom Fitton for pushing the same argument as Davis
Trump's own lawyers felt Trump could have avoided an indictment if they negotiated to return all the documents. They feel Fitton got Trump into this mess. Fitton is not a lawyer, remember. And Fitton is a witness in this case.
Your counterargument falls apart under Article 2 of the Constitution, which vests ALL executive powers in the President. The president ultimately has the authority to dictate to all agencies beneath him what is and is not vital to national security, and what is or is not an authorized location. The agencies do not hold authority over the President. The 102 documents he took with him, if they are all pertaining to the alphabet soup spying on him during his campaign, were declassified before he left office.
Additionally, the 2012 case law resulting from the sock drawer case establishes that it is the President's responsibility and sole authority to separate personal records from presidential records. No other agency under the executive branch can supersede that authority.
You make this seem like it happens on the fly. Presidents still have to follow laws and executive orders.
Which means they'll be evidence of if certain things happened or there won't be. It's not a constitutional argument.
It's an argument of did this happen before he left the presidency or not.
The indictment alleges at all 31 documents are classified to this day.
Also Trump's lawyers do not think the sock drawer case applies here.
Only where laws and executive orders apply to them. If there is no legal procedure which concerns the de-classification of documents, then it stands to reason that the President only needs to give the order, which has been proven to be done for at least some of the documents that were seized.
I would think the grand jury would have included testimony on classification.
The Clinton case set the precedent that the President gets to keep whatever he wants, without qualification as to classification status (tape recordings of classified conversations). The same thing was true for Obama, who basically left with a storehouse of documents.
There is another legal perspective that this law pertains to the employees and officers of the Executive branch, but not the President...as it cannot be the case that the Legislative branch directs the President (personification of the Executive branch) by enactment of legislation. That would breach the co-equal powers and privileges specified in the Constitution.
There was a video posted previously on GA (50 minutes into a 2 1/2 hour length) where an evidently savvy lawyer elaborated on something like half a dozen causes for outright dismissal, based on the Constitutional immunity of the President from the alleged laws. His basic point is that it can't be the case that the Deep State gets to determine what the President is to see; the rule of superiority is that the President alone determines what he gets to see, as he is the apex of authority in the Executive branch.
I am concerned that Trump may not be served well by his lawyers. They may not be willing to push this to a Constitutional confrontation, which is where the matter lies.
The whole point of this is to soften the blow of the Biden docs which are probably way more incriminating. We all know Trump is by the book
You might be right, they're showing the public just how corrupt the deep state is and the lengths they'll go to.
I wonder if we'll see some interesting voter fraud proof come out around the time they indict Trump in Georgia? Maybe some fedsurrection proof will come out as they indict Trump for J6?
A good summary of the issue. Basically in addition to mere retention, the government would need to allege and prove that the former President intended to cause "injury to the United States or aid to a foreign nation result from the disclosures."
He's charge with willful retention of national defense information. That's the bulk of the charges 31 counts.
Not disclosure. The Espionage Act details many different crimes..... .I forgot he is charged with two instances of disclosure.
But willfull retention is a separate crime
What did Peteaus plead guilty to? That probably applies
Petreaus plead guilty to a differen law. Trump is not charged with this
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924
Some of those comments....wow.
The brainwashing is very real and worse when you hear it in real life and in person.
My friend was telling me about her drama with xyz, been going on for months and months. I finally told her, "Girl, look up. There's stuff going on. You need to get on the Trump Train!" omg what a meltdown, she told me Trump is not Jesus. I said, no kidding. on and on and on. And on and on and on. There's a segment of people who claim to be conservative but they are like liberals in conservative clothing. Another friendship lost. Oh well. Pull your head out of your ass or get out of the way.
OBAMA HID HALF OF HIS. Sealed them. Only president to do so. The guy, or the department, I forget, that keeps them and documents them, was very angry about it. We need THOSE RECORDS. Now-ster-day.
This whole plan from the start, had as one of its goals, was to educate the American people on how their government is supposed to work, imo.
I've learned a lot!
https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/08/17/trump-raid-isnt-first-dust-up-over-presidential-records-here-are-3-more/ Did Obummer really leave office with 30+ million papers ? 👉Obama Foundation Supplants Archives When President Barack Obama left office in January 2017, some 30 million pages of documents from his administration were moved to a warehouse near Chicago that previously was the site of a furniture store.
The Obama Foundation announced a plan to digitize all of the records ahead of building a $500 million Obama Presidential Center.
The major difference between the Obama center and previous presidential libraries is that it would be run by the Obama Foundation, a nonprofit established by the former president and former first lady Michelle Obama.
Right? so NARA was not handling these documents, as with every other President, and all of the records were digital, and it hasn't been digitized bc MuH cOvId! Move along, Nick! Nothing to see here!
What I really wonder about is Trump saying that Biden was the most corrupt, bc to be more corrupt than Obama would be a feat.
u/#q341 Raided by the good guys 😎
nice catch!
Most Presidential Libraries are run by a foundation.
NARA is in charge of the documents, but the Museum parts ..the ones that tell the story of the presidency are a foundation.
This has confused some people
Presidential Library and Museum Support Organizations
Hoover Presidential Association 302 Parkside Drive West Branch, IA 52358 Telephone: 319-643-5327 Email: [email protected]
The Roosevelt Institute 4079 Albany Post Road Hyde Park, NY 12538 Telephone: 212-444-9130
The Harry S. Truman Library Institute 500 West U.S. Highway 24 Independence, MO 64050 1798 Telephone: 816-833 0425
The Eisenhower Foundation 200 Southeast 4th Street Abilene, KS 67410 Telephone: 877- RING IKE Email: [email protected]
John F. Kennedy Library Foundation Columbia Point Boston, MA 02125 Telephone: 617-514-1550 Email: [email protected]
The LBJ Foundation 2313 Red River Street Austin, TX 78705 Telephone: 512-478-7829
The Richard Nixon Foundation 18001 Yorba Linda Blvd Yorba Linda, CA 92886 Telephone: 714-993-5075
Gerald R. Ford Presidential Foundation 303 Pearl Street, NW Grand Rapids, MI 49504 Telephone: 616-254-0396 Email: [email protected]
The Carter Center One Copenhill 453 Freedom Parkway Atlanta, GA 30307 Telephone: 404-420-5100 / 800-550-3560 Email: [email protected]
The Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation 40 Presidential Drive Simi Valley, CA 93065 Telephone: 805-522-2977 Email: [email protected]
George Bush Presidential Library Foundation Texas A&M University 1145 TAMU College Station, TX 77843-1145 Telephone: 979-862-2251 Email: [email protected]
William J. Clinton Foundation 1200 President Clinton Ave. Little Rock, AR 72201
George W. Bush Presidential Center 2943 SMU Boulevard Dallas, TX 75205 Telephone: 214-200-4300 / 855-577-4300 Email: [email protected]
Barack H. Obama Foundation 5235 S. Harper Ct. Suite 1140 Chicago, IL 60615