Furthermore, this is a an example of a logical fallacy called argument from personal incredulity.
Which is a fancy way of saying just cuz you're don't understand something or can't believe it happened doesn't mean it didn't happen. You need more evidence
Split ticket voting is a thing.
My mother used to do it ever since I was a kid used to piss my father off
How do you split ticket vote when there is only one party on the ballot?
We need to stop talking like we have a two party system. We don't. Every name on the ballot is chosen by the DNC or RNC which effectively make up the uni-party.
The voters don't get to choose who to vote for. The "parties" do. Pretty much all candidates on the ballot are selected by the parties first.
In the end, the parties don't care who wins the election because they are fine with either candidate.
It's a shell game designed to make the citizens think they have a choice and that we are in control if we just show up to vote.
Everyone paying attention knows we have Selections, not Elections. And the selections are pre-made before we even have a say.
It's why a multi-billionaire, clean as a whistle, outsider was a cataclysmic threat to the uniparty system.
It's why we are witnessing such massive hemorrhaging of the way it was before.
The Trump family was involved in politics since before Donald was born.
Trump's family was more involved in politics than I would say 90% of Americans. Fred Trump was connected the Madison political club in Brooklyn since he was in his 20s. These connections served him very well as he became one of the richest men in America. When Fred was just 28, Fred was able to get control of the assets of a big mortgage company through these political connections.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Lehrenkrauss_Corporation#cite_note-4
You are correct that the Trump family has been in influential positions for a long time. Trump has donated to both major parties and been involved in politics from the standpoint of greasing the machine.
I believe the main reason the Trump's did this was to ensure support for major commercial development projects that they wanted to get approvals for. It's part of the nature of commercial development. Many business leaders of all types of businesses do this for similar reasons.
My great epiphany with Trump was two-fold.
First, I randomly saw George Carlin's Big Club skit in 2015. This made me question our supposed two party system. I started thinking, do we actually have two parties or are they all kind of one in the same? For all my life I had assumed I had to choose a political side that I most identified with.
Second, when I first heard Trump speak I thought this guy can't be president. He didn't "sound" right to me. But then I started Listening to what he was saying and I thought, wow, this guy is speaking cold hard Truths and saying exactly the things I feel.
At the 2016 RNC convention, I noticed a very peculiar thing. With Trump way out in front in the polls, I noticed that no former Republican president, or nominee for president (except for Bob Dole) attended their own convention to show support for Trump. Even John Kasich, the governor of Ohio at the time (convention held in Cleveland, OH), didn't show up as the host Republican Governor.
It was at this moment that I realized Trump was an "Outsider" as far as the Big Club was concerned. This was also the exact moment I knew for sure that Trump would be the perfect wrecking ball for DC, and boy was I right. He swung that wrecking ball through every hallway of the deep state, uni-party cabal, and we are still feeling the reverberations today.
All of the indictments, all of the court cases, all of the election fraud, all of the lies about Russia Collusion, lies about the laptop, lies about everything, the covid scam, the vaxx scam, all of it is due to an Outsider daring to disrupt The System.
The deep state, WEF, WHO, and OWG would have pursued all of these things anyways at a slower pace to not wake up the people.
It was at this moment that I realized Trump was an "Outsider" as far as the Big Club was concerned.
I would characterize this differently. Imagine an actual real club.
Given that unless you're a Bush or Kennedy or someone like that, Trump has always been very his very childhood way more involved in politics than virtually anyone else....which means he's inside the Club. He might sit at a different table, but you or I are not in the club at all. We can't even visit the club.
The only way we could get onto the property that the club is on is like get a job as a parking valet or a waiter. So the outsider thing has also been a pose. LIke the idea that Trump built his business himself. Wealth and his father's political connections have always been behind Trump.
Also far from being an outsider Trump has access to the media like few people ever. He's sought it out for over 40 years. I'm from NYC. Guy was always in columns and often on the front page.
Trump was friends with Cohn, Rubinstein and Moses. You can't get more inside than that. Let me explain.
Robert Moses was the master builder of New York. His biography, The Power Broker is 1,200 pages. That's how influential this guy was. The book about how politics and power really works. Moses was more powerful than mayors and the governor. He was a personal friend of Fred Trump,
Both Moses and Fred Trump wanted to and partially succeeded in changing Coney Island to get rid of amusements.
Roy Cohn who goes back the McCarthy hearings in 1950s, was by the 1970's the biggest fixer in NY politics/society He was Donald Trump's mentor and friend. Cohn literally was the lawyer for the head of the Gambino AND the Genovese families who are the two most power Mafia families in American history AND was the lawyer for the archbishop of NY. Cohn and Trump were super tight. Cohn introduced Trump to Roger Stone.
Howard Rubinstein was public relations guy. He was the "godfather of NYC PR." He might have been biggest PR man in America. He was known as a master of damage control. Rupert Murdoch's PR guy. The New York Yankees too. Donald Trump has been working with him since 1973.
And if you search on these names, you find, like I just did, a 1985 NY Times article on WHO RUNS NY NOW. Trump, Rubinstein and Cohn are all listed among the power brokers of the day. It mentions that Donald's first big deals, as opposed to Fred's, came about because the Trump political connections got him tax abatements. Donald's first deal had a tax abatement that was still going on all through his presidency. It was a 40 year abatement.
No, you just don't get it! Kentucky has had 9 Republican governors in its history and 34 Democrat governors, they must have cheated to get a Democrat governor!
Sarcasm aside, people here are making a few decent points in favor of there being fraud. Certainly enough as a starting point for a deeper investigation based on what we learned from 2020.
But all the dogmatic downvotes for anyone presenting the very real possibility of split ticket voters are completely absurd.
Sure, investigation is fine, but I'm hardly seeing any actual proof of fraud here. Like, how can we tell the difference between fraud and when we genuinely lose an election? Every election will have peculiarities, but that doesn't nessesarily mean fraud.
To add, we also can't just demand investigations for every election we lose or people will just think we're the boy who cried wolf; and we likely would be.
We have to find the right balance of evidence to call for an investigation and to call an outcome fraudulent. Too little and no one will listen. But if the amount of evidence people want before investigating is too much, we won't be able to muster up enough evidence without an investigation, which would leave us stuck.
Yes, this happens quite often.
Furthermore, this is a an example of a logical fallacy called argument from personal incredulity.
Which is a fancy way of saying just cuz you're don't understand something or can't believe it happened doesn't mean it didn't happen. You need more evidence
Split ticket voting is a thing.
My mother used to do it ever since I was a kid used to piss my father off
How do you split ticket vote when there is only one party on the ballot?
We need to stop talking like we have a two party system. We don't. Every name on the ballot is chosen by the DNC or RNC which effectively make up the uni-party.
The voters don't get to choose who to vote for. The "parties" do. Pretty much all candidates on the ballot are selected by the parties first.
In the end, the parties don't care who wins the election because they are fine with either candidate.
It's a shell game designed to make the citizens think they have a choice and that we are in control if we just show up to vote.
Everyone paying attention knows we have Selections, not Elections. And the selections are pre-made before we even have a say.
It's why a multi-billionaire, clean as a whistle, outsider was a cataclysmic threat to the uniparty system.
It's why we are witnessing such massive hemorrhaging of the way it was before.
We are at WAR.
u/#5genwarfare
The Trump family was involved in politics since before Donald was born.
Trump's family was more involved in politics than I would say 90% of Americans. Fred Trump was connected the Madison political club in Brooklyn since he was in his 20s. These connections served him very well as he became one of the richest men in America. When Fred was just 28, Fred was able to get control of the assets of a big mortgage company through these political connections. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Lehrenkrauss_Corporation#cite_note-4
40 years later the [Madison club ](Madison Democratic Club Brings Influence to Brooklyn https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/08/archives/madison-democratic-club-brings-influence-to-brooklyn.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9Ew.FnXD.lRicVRpJ5orH&smid=nytcore-android-share)was still a political force in the state. So much so that friends of the Fred Trump were mayor of New York and governor of New York. Both were Madison club members.
I hear what you are saying u/JollyRancherHard
You are correct that the Trump family has been in influential positions for a long time. Trump has donated to both major parties and been involved in politics from the standpoint of greasing the machine.
I believe the main reason the Trump's did this was to ensure support for major commercial development projects that they wanted to get approvals for. It's part of the nature of commercial development. Many business leaders of all types of businesses do this for similar reasons.
My great epiphany with Trump was two-fold.
First, I randomly saw George Carlin's Big Club skit in 2015. This made me question our supposed two party system. I started thinking, do we actually have two parties or are they all kind of one in the same? For all my life I had assumed I had to choose a political side that I most identified with.
Second, when I first heard Trump speak I thought this guy can't be president. He didn't "sound" right to me. But then I started Listening to what he was saying and I thought, wow, this guy is speaking cold hard Truths and saying exactly the things I feel.
At the 2016 RNC convention, I noticed a very peculiar thing. With Trump way out in front in the polls, I noticed that no former Republican president, or nominee for president (except for Bob Dole) attended their own convention to show support for Trump. Even John Kasich, the governor of Ohio at the time (convention held in Cleveland, OH), didn't show up as the host Republican Governor.
It was at this moment that I realized Trump was an "Outsider" as far as the Big Club was concerned. This was also the exact moment I knew for sure that Trump would be the perfect wrecking ball for DC, and boy was I right. He swung that wrecking ball through every hallway of the deep state, uni-party cabal, and we are still feeling the reverberations today.
All of the indictments, all of the court cases, all of the election fraud, all of the lies about Russia Collusion, lies about the laptop, lies about everything, the covid scam, the vaxx scam, all of it is due to an Outsider daring to disrupt The System.
The deep state, WEF, WHO, and OWG would have pursued all of these things anyways at a slower pace to not wake up the people.
But, it was the Outsider that woke everyone up.
u/#5genwarfare
I would characterize this differently. Imagine an actual real club.
Given that unless you're a Bush or Kennedy or someone like that, Trump has always been very his very childhood way more involved in politics than virtually anyone else....which means he's inside the Club. He might sit at a different table, but you or I are not in the club at all. We can't even visit the club.
The only way we could get onto the property that the club is on is like get a job as a parking valet or a waiter. So the outsider thing has also been a pose. LIke the idea that Trump built his business himself. Wealth and his father's political connections have always been behind Trump.
Also far from being an outsider Trump has access to the media like few people ever. He's sought it out for over 40 years. I'm from NYC. Guy was always in columns and often on the front page.
Trump was friends with Cohn, Rubinstein and Moses. You can't get more inside than that. Let me explain.
Robert Moses was the master builder of New York. His biography, The Power Broker is 1,200 pages. That's how influential this guy was. The book about how politics and power really works. Moses was more powerful than mayors and the governor. He was a personal friend of Fred Trump,
Both Moses and Fred Trump wanted to and partially succeeded in changing Coney Island to get rid of amusements.
Roy Cohn who goes back the McCarthy hearings in 1950s, was by the 1970's the biggest fixer in NY politics/society He was Donald Trump's mentor and friend. Cohn literally was the lawyer for the head of the Gambino AND the Genovese families who are the two most power Mafia families in American history AND was the lawyer for the archbishop of NY. Cohn and Trump were super tight. Cohn introduced Trump to Roger Stone.
Howard Rubinstein was public relations guy. He was the "godfather of NYC PR." He might have been biggest PR man in America. He was known as a master of damage control. Rupert Murdoch's PR guy. The New York Yankees too. Donald Trump has been working with him since 1973.
And if you search on these names, you find, like I just did, a 1985 NY Times article on WHO RUNS NY NOW. Trump, Rubinstein and Cohn are all listed among the power brokers of the day. It mentions that Donald's first big deals, as opposed to Fred's, came about because the Trump political connections got him tax abatements. Donald's first deal had a tax abatement that was still going on all through his presidency. It was a 40 year abatement.
New account say what?
No, you just don't get it! Kentucky has had 9 Republican governors in its history and 34 Democrat governors, they must have cheated to get a Democrat governor!
Sarcasm aside, people here are making a few decent points in favor of there being fraud. Certainly enough as a starting point for a deeper investigation based on what we learned from 2020.
But all the dogmatic downvotes for anyone presenting the very real possibility of split ticket voters are completely absurd.
Sure, investigation is fine, but I'm hardly seeing any actual proof of fraud here. Like, how can we tell the difference between fraud and when we genuinely lose an election? Every election will have peculiarities, but that doesn't nessesarily mean fraud.
Certainly.
To add, we also can't just demand investigations for every election we lose or people will just think we're the boy who cried wolf; and we likely would be.
We have to find the right balance of evidence to call for an investigation and to call an outcome fraudulent. Too little and no one will listen. But if the amount of evidence people want before investigating is too much, we won't be able to muster up enough evidence without an investigation, which would leave us stuck.