I do want to urge people here to not throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to so called 15 minute cities. Obviously, when the WEF is promoting it they want to take the concept in their own direction so that they can more easily implement a lockdown.
But ALL cities used to be 15 minute cities before the automobile. Even US cities used to be walkable but then many city centers were demolished to put highways right through the centre.
There is nothing wrong for instance with changing zoning laws so that the suburbs can have a couple of supermarkets and some other services so that you don't have to get in your car and drive across town to do some simple chores.
Many American and Canadian teens are stuck in the suburbs and are dependant on their parents to drive them everywhere. I've read many stories of teens becoming depressed because of it.
Please consider, that when you put everyone in driving metal boxes, it will only increase traffic and it will cut people off from each other. Not to mention the giant cost involved with maintaining all the roads. Offer people different modes of transport to get where they need to go and life will be better for everyone, also for car drivers because you don't get as many idiots on the road anymore.
There are many people who don't want to dirve, but they have to drive to get anywhere. This is just poor urban design and it's dehumanizing.
Also the noise of cars is having a far more detrimental effect on our health then most people realize. Cars absolutely have their place and I couldn't do without one. I also would not want to live in a completely car-free neighbourhood, but we don't need cities where everything is build around the car.
You are so right. Both these "15-minute cities" AND car-based cities are manipulation. How 'bout the old way, before cars, when we had TOWNS??? Surrounded by farms and a few factories.
If you go to an old European village, the reason people feel so calm and are walking everywhere is because they were built with a human scale in mind, not car scale. So when a town is built prioritizing the car, then the distance becomes greater and you are forced to drive, making it more difficult to create connections to your fellow neighbors. People here are triggered by this new development because of the ongoing talk of 15 minute cities. I'd like to see the possibility of lanes for service vehicles and deliveries but the overall idea is not horrible. Remember cars got shoved down our throats thanks to Rockefeller lobbying.
Or higher. About seven(?) years ago the high reached 127 F for a few days. Then “cooled” off to 120 F or so.
This will crash and burn like everything else they do. Or maybe they built it in a place where it is destined to fail…to pill people on how ridiculous the concept is?
Yes then what are they gonna do with a useless piece of property like that. It will be full of drug addicts and illegal aliens. Or they’ll have to tear it down. Everyone in the surrounding area will regret ever buying a property near that location. get out while you can.
Walk, bike and carbon-free “rickshaws” of course. With “workforce housing” and “mixed use” planning, everything you need is downstairs for a price. There will simply be “cooling rest areas” for rent. Need a tool, rent it, need to move something, hire an “Urban sherpa”. Its an easy life, just hire and pay for everything... over and over again.
But paying for everything over and over again is monotonous and can be simplified by government designating certain select individuals and assigning them “meaningful work” such as Joe, as an area sherpa. His job is to move your shit when you want it moved. Pete, he is the chef and makes you a sandwich that Debbie will deliver to you. Hank cleans the “open space" because he seems adapted to that job. Lonnie, keeps the loaner bikes working. Nan does your laundry because she is not particularly good looking. You, you clean the shitters because we said so...
Good point. It can also be rather humid there. I'm not saying this concept is perfect but some parts are worth considering for dense urban area development. I lived in Albuquerque and the sprawl was so great that the development of public transportation had a real uphill battle and always sucked. Therefore more highways and cars were needed because of the lack of public transport. Then more time sitting on I-40 waiting to get home. The only way around this is to create villages where most needs are met, preferably connected to food production and nature. But nothing is perfect. I would probably hate living in that tempe village as it would probably be so woke.
Yes. That college turns normal Christian raised children into Lunatics. Take it from me I know. One day your child is going to college, and the next day they want to cut their boobs off. Yes, it’s a huge cesspool and a brainwashing clinic. No one gets out with their brain intact.
it will be worse, like NYC..where are the homeless people going to sleep? The govt will probably make the residents house these people. The drug dealers and criminals will be able to block that one exit/entryway and your choice of a pizza joint or chinese restaurant will not be a choice because there's only 1 available. Your local grocery store can charge crazy expensive prices without competition you either pay or starve. Just some examples of ALL the things that could go wrong.
Oh How about when there's fire... the whole damn city with the people in it will be burnt to the ground since fire will spread much quicker and not like anybody can take off in a car or anything.
The WEF 15 minute model bears no resemblance to what you are describing. Their model does not include porches and single family homes, just large high density condos, They are creating ZONES - meaning you will stay in your ZONE especially if you your credit score is bad. Horrible, dystopian nightmare and exactly what used to exist in Soviet Union.
Yep - that's why I said it's a distortion of the good. It combines elements of the good, historic model to entice people yet mixes it with nightmarish elements in order to deceive. I agree it is a dystopian nightmare.
Having been to European small towns that are very much laid out the same way, where things can be walked and it’s possible to walk the entire distance of the town to get to anything you need on foot, can confirm the niceness of not having to go everywhere by car.
It has to be organic though, as you noted. Best approach would be to trash zoning laws.
“In order to run a business, you must own not one, but TWO or THREE properties.”
Figure out a way to keep industrial waste under control with damages to impacted neighbors under this method, of course.
Thank you for a reasoned voice. This is not a 15 minute city. It's a development with no parking spaces. Totally different. And designing either one and building it from the ground up and the people literally buying into it is totally different from taking an existing area and forcing the residents to stay within it or pay fines if they should venture outside of it. Residents in those cases never agreed to such a deal, so it is authoritarian. Those situations are what we should get up in arms about.
When people call this a 15 minute city, they are conflating two things and the resulting confusion only serves the other side.
You are going to get a crap ton of down votes. But I’ll play devils advocate.
One of the places on the planet, that this works well is Japan. There are a lot of people there that don’t have cars, however, they have the most intricate an effective public transportation service on the planet. You have to walk a few blocks to get to a train, and you can go just about anywhere. However; on the flipside, there are still plenty of people who have vehicles. My brother lives there, and he lives in a high-rise condominiums, and they have a parking spot for their vehicle. But they pay extra for that. You have to have money to own a car in Japan. The elite.?!
The idea that you have planned out, for United States of America, is just not there. Los Angeles has minimal public transportation, with buses being just about the only way you can get around, and with all of the rampant crime, that’s not a good idea. Also, the infrastructure is already built for vehicle transportation like you said, so they have to remake the entire city, to make it the way you seem to advocate for.
Even in New York, where they do have decent public transportation, the videos of what happens on those trains is horrific. People are getting beat up, killed, raped, not to mention all the other bizarre activities going on on those trains. So, even with a city like New York, which is actually set up to be sort of like a 15 minute city - the type of people that live there, and how they’re bringing in all these illegals, makes it untenable.
The case in hand, that OP posted - is Tempe, Arizona. I’ve lived in Arizona for 25 years. I’m not surprised they used Tempe for the first 15 minutes city, because there is a university right down the street from this location. Many college students are already living this sort of lifestyle, staying within a certain area just to get their food and go to school. However; just about every student that I’ve heard of has always had a vehicle (my child being one of them) Why is that? Well because there’s a whole big wide world outside of Tempe, that college students want to go party and go to Events. You need a vehicle for that.
Although Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the nation, it’s built out, not up like in New York. Even if you’re at the center of it all, where the 10 freeway meets the 60 freeway, you’re still 30 to 45 minutes to getting to the other side of the city - in a vehicle. Not to mention… This so-called 15 minutes city has electric vehicles for people to get around. NO ONE - is going to want to TRAVEL in 115° weather. By the time you get there, you’re going to be covered in sweat, your face will be red, and you’re going to be looking at a huge number of heat stroke cases. (I know because I use to do home repairs in the summer, and it’s a bitch)
Don’t even get me started on the public transportation for Arizona. There are many places in Arizona where they don’t even have buses running. If you’re living in Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa. You can get a bus somewhere. But the rest of the city is very sparse and there is no coverage. Not to mention if you have to switch buses, you have to walk. That again is a No Go for 115° weather. I used to have a friend who didn’t have a car, who took buses everywhere. It took her hours to get places. Hours! Many times she would call me from the bus stop and I would go pick her up.
Anyway - there are places in Europe, where they have 15 minute type of cities, like in Italy or Spain, where they have Mom and Pop shops with fruits and vegetables and stuff like that. But they were created that way. Most of America is too expensive to have 15 minutes cities. Not to mention - they are coming to get us. They will round us up. Not having a vehicle makes it much easier for them to do that. Where do you think is the first place they’re going to round people up. 15 minute cities.
In 15 min cities like this where everything is closeby, you know what happened?
Gangs and criminals take over and that one store available to you will be blocked always with the bad people and you'll end up paying toll to them daily. 15 min cities is just another excuse to imprison you. The whole city will be run by one powerful gang and they'll do whatever they want and cops won't be able to keep up.
Actually, people lived rurally for the most part and had to go into town at regularly scheduled intervals, like once a week or once a month, or even once a year. More people farmed or ranched. the ones that lived in the city usually did because they worked in the city or vacationed there. They didn't use cars though... nor did they walk. They used their version of the car... the horse.
I think when I lived alone and all I did was go to work (too much) and sleep in my home, I would have lived somewhere like this. I was young, didn't have much responsibility, and kinda used my home as a place to sleep. I wouldn't have minded having everything close by. I wouldn't have thought through the problems, I would have just done it. Now that I'm older and can think through things more thoroughly, this is not for me anymore.
Fine points, but this stupid thing takes freedom away. Zoning should absolutely follow needs, and needs are NOT forcing drives everywhere. Local little stores are great. This stupid thing has a monopoly store, monopoly bike repair, and no way to get in or out for anything critical, like utilities, deliveries of large items, emergency services, even- heck of you're having a party how many trips will you make to bring in all the groceries and a sheet cake that doesn't fit in a stupid bike basket?
Yeah - this is idiotic. Remember this is just a little place. Their "grocery store" won't have a lot because trucks deliver food - not bikes. The food will suck because you will probably get vegetables, fake meat, and bugs. Do you really think these people will have meat in their utopia? Old people will die sooner - they won't be riding their bikes or getting meals-on-wheels.
Maybe if it was a big city with public transport it could work for a while. This is too small and too idealistic. Look for it to crumble within 5 years.
I do want to urge people here to not throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to so called 15 minute cities. Obviously, when the WEF is promoting it they want to take the concept in their own direction so that they can more easily implement a lockdown.
But ALL cities used to be 15 minute cities before the automobile. Even US cities used to be walkable but then many city centers were demolished to put highways right through the centre.
There is nothing wrong for instance with changing zoning laws so that the suburbs can have a couple of supermarkets and some other services so that you don't have to get in your car and drive across town to do some simple chores.
Many American and Canadian teens are stuck in the suburbs and are dependant on their parents to drive them everywhere. I've read many stories of teens becoming depressed because of it.
Please consider, that when you put everyone in driving metal boxes, it will only increase traffic and it will cut people off from each other. Not to mention the giant cost involved with maintaining all the roads. Offer people different modes of transport to get where they need to go and life will be better for everyone, also for car drivers because you don't get as many idiots on the road anymore.
There are many people who don't want to dirve, but they have to drive to get anywhere. This is just poor urban design and it's dehumanizing.
Also the noise of cars is having a far more detrimental effect on our health then most people realize. Cars absolutely have their place and I couldn't do without one. I also would not want to live in a completely car-free neighbourhood, but we don't need cities where everything is build around the car.
You are so right. Both these "15-minute cities" AND car-based cities are manipulation. How 'bout the old way, before cars, when we had TOWNS??? Surrounded by farms and a few factories.
If you go to an old European village, the reason people feel so calm and are walking everywhere is because they were built with a human scale in mind, not car scale. So when a town is built prioritizing the car, then the distance becomes greater and you are forced to drive, making it more difficult to create connections to your fellow neighbors. People here are triggered by this new development because of the ongoing talk of 15 minute cities. I'd like to see the possibility of lanes for service vehicles and deliveries but the overall idea is not horrible. Remember cars got shoved down our throats thanks to Rockefeller lobbying.
It’s 115° here in Arizona in the summer. How are people going to get around?
Or higher. About seven(?) years ago the high reached 127 F for a few days. Then “cooled” off to 120 F or so.
This will crash and burn like everything else they do. Or maybe they built it in a place where it is destined to fail…to pill people on how ridiculous the concept is?
We’re out in Apache Junction, where it’s a bunch of Boomers, with vehicles, more than one… Campers, preppers - and locked and loaded. 😂🤣😂🤣
👏👏👏
Yes then what are they gonna do with a useless piece of property like that. It will be full of drug addicts and illegal aliens. Or they’ll have to tear it down. Everyone in the surrounding area will regret ever buying a property near that location. get out while you can.
Walk, bike and carbon-free “rickshaws” of course. With “workforce housing” and “mixed use” planning, everything you need is downstairs for a price. There will simply be “cooling rest areas” for rent. Need a tool, rent it, need to move something, hire an “Urban sherpa”. Its an easy life, just hire and pay for everything... over and over again.
But paying for everything over and over again is monotonous and can be simplified by government designating certain select individuals and assigning them “meaningful work” such as Joe, as an area sherpa. His job is to move your shit when you want it moved. Pete, he is the chef and makes you a sandwich that Debbie will deliver to you. Hank cleans the “open space" because he seems adapted to that job. Lonnie, keeps the loaner bikes working. Nan does your laundry because she is not particularly good looking. You, you clean the shitters because we said so...
😂🤣😂🤣 Sherpas! 👏👏👏
So basically… Back to slavery again. 🤬
Good point. It can also be rather humid there. I'm not saying this concept is perfect but some parts are worth considering for dense urban area development. I lived in Albuquerque and the sprawl was so great that the development of public transportation had a real uphill battle and always sucked. Therefore more highways and cars were needed because of the lack of public transport. Then more time sitting on I-40 waiting to get home. The only way around this is to create villages where most needs are met, preferably connected to food production and nature. But nothing is perfect. I would probably hate living in that tempe village as it would probably be so woke.
👏👏👏
Yes. That college turns normal Christian raised children into Lunatics. Take it from me I know. One day your child is going to college, and the next day they want to cut their boobs off. Yes, it’s a huge cesspool and a brainwashing clinic. No one gets out with their brain intact.
it will be worse, like NYC..where are the homeless people going to sleep? The govt will probably make the residents house these people. The drug dealers and criminals will be able to block that one exit/entryway and your choice of a pizza joint or chinese restaurant will not be a choice because there's only 1 available. Your local grocery store can charge crazy expensive prices without competition you either pay or starve. Just some examples of ALL the things that could go wrong.
Oh How about when there's fire... the whole damn city with the people in it will be burnt to the ground since fire will spread much quicker and not like anybody can take off in a car or anything.
What the fuck are you sharing violence for? This has nothing to do with city planning ideas.
The WEF 15 minute model bears no resemblance to what you are describing. Their model does not include porches and single family homes, just large high density condos, They are creating ZONES - meaning you will stay in your ZONE especially if you your credit score is bad. Horrible, dystopian nightmare and exactly what used to exist in Soviet Union.
Yep - that's why I said it's a distortion of the good. It combines elements of the good, historic model to entice people yet mixes it with nightmarish elements in order to deceive. I agree it is a dystopian nightmare.
"Moms were home during the day" fixes a LOT of things, but they should still have access to cars and roads.
Having been to European small towns that are very much laid out the same way, where things can be walked and it’s possible to walk the entire distance of the town to get to anything you need on foot, can confirm the niceness of not having to go everywhere by car.
It has to be organic though, as you noted. Best approach would be to trash zoning laws.
“In order to run a business, you must own not one, but TWO or THREE properties.”
Figure out a way to keep industrial waste under control with damages to impacted neighbors under this method, of course.
"But ALL cities used to be 15 minute cities before the automobile"
Which we now have, mooting the rest of your blather.
Vroom Vroom 🏎️
If you know, you know. 👏👏👏
I would never live without my vehicle. Never!
I've got a twenty minute drive to the nearest milk. Used to have a mom and pop store a mile away by foot. Cars or not, it was actually convenient.
Ever considered life post emp? Hope you like horses.
I just lost braincells reading your reply.
Just because the automobile now exists, that doesn't mean we need to build our entire world around it.
I am not aware of any
Thank you for a reasoned voice. This is not a 15 minute city. It's a development with no parking spaces. Totally different. And designing either one and building it from the ground up and the people literally buying into it is totally different from taking an existing area and forcing the residents to stay within it or pay fines if they should venture outside of it. Residents in those cases never agreed to such a deal, so it is authoritarian. Those situations are what we should get up in arms about. When people call this a 15 minute city, they are conflating two things and the resulting confusion only serves the other side.
You are going to get a crap ton of down votes. But I’ll play devils advocate.
One of the places on the planet, that this works well is Japan. There are a lot of people there that don’t have cars, however, they have the most intricate an effective public transportation service on the planet. You have to walk a few blocks to get to a train, and you can go just about anywhere. However; on the flipside, there are still plenty of people who have vehicles. My brother lives there, and he lives in a high-rise condominiums, and they have a parking spot for their vehicle. But they pay extra for that. You have to have money to own a car in Japan. The elite.?!
The idea that you have planned out, for United States of America, is just not there. Los Angeles has minimal public transportation, with buses being just about the only way you can get around, and with all of the rampant crime, that’s not a good idea. Also, the infrastructure is already built for vehicle transportation like you said, so they have to remake the entire city, to make it the way you seem to advocate for.
Even in New York, where they do have decent public transportation, the videos of what happens on those trains is horrific. People are getting beat up, killed, raped, not to mention all the other bizarre activities going on on those trains. So, even with a city like New York, which is actually set up to be sort of like a 15 minute city - the type of people that live there, and how they’re bringing in all these illegals, makes it untenable.
The case in hand, that OP posted - is Tempe, Arizona. I’ve lived in Arizona for 25 years. I’m not surprised they used Tempe for the first 15 minutes city, because there is a university right down the street from this location. Many college students are already living this sort of lifestyle, staying within a certain area just to get their food and go to school. However; just about every student that I’ve heard of has always had a vehicle (my child being one of them) Why is that? Well because there’s a whole big wide world outside of Tempe, that college students want to go party and go to Events. You need a vehicle for that.
Although Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the nation, it’s built out, not up like in New York. Even if you’re at the center of it all, where the 10 freeway meets the 60 freeway, you’re still 30 to 45 minutes to getting to the other side of the city - in a vehicle. Not to mention… This so-called 15 minutes city has electric vehicles for people to get around. NO ONE - is going to want to TRAVEL in 115° weather. By the time you get there, you’re going to be covered in sweat, your face will be red, and you’re going to be looking at a huge number of heat stroke cases. (I know because I use to do home repairs in the summer, and it’s a bitch)
Don’t even get me started on the public transportation for Arizona. There are many places in Arizona where they don’t even have buses running. If you’re living in Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa. You can get a bus somewhere. But the rest of the city is very sparse and there is no coverage. Not to mention if you have to switch buses, you have to walk. That again is a No Go for 115° weather. I used to have a friend who didn’t have a car, who took buses everywhere. It took her hours to get places. Hours! Many times she would call me from the bus stop and I would go pick her up.
Anyway - there are places in Europe, where they have 15 minute type of cities, like in Italy or Spain, where they have Mom and Pop shops with fruits and vegetables and stuff like that. But they were created that way. Most of America is too expensive to have 15 minutes cities. Not to mention - they are coming to get us. They will round us up. Not having a vehicle makes it much easier for them to do that. Where do you think is the first place they’re going to round people up. 15 minute cities.
In 15 min cities like this where everything is closeby, you know what happened?
Gangs and criminals take over and that one store available to you will be blocked always with the bad people and you'll end up paying toll to them daily. 15 min cities is just another excuse to imprison you. The whole city will be run by one powerful gang and they'll do whatever they want and cops won't be able to keep up.
Actually, people lived rurally for the most part and had to go into town at regularly scheduled intervals, like once a week or once a month, or even once a year. More people farmed or ranched. the ones that lived in the city usually did because they worked in the city or vacationed there. They didn't use cars though... nor did they walk. They used their version of the car... the horse.
I think when I lived alone and all I did was go to work (too much) and sleep in my home, I would have lived somewhere like this. I was young, didn't have much responsibility, and kinda used my home as a place to sleep. I wouldn't have minded having everything close by. I wouldn't have thought through the problems, I would have just done it. Now that I'm older and can think through things more thoroughly, this is not for me anymore.
Fine points, but this stupid thing takes freedom away. Zoning should absolutely follow needs, and needs are NOT forcing drives everywhere. Local little stores are great. This stupid thing has a monopoly store, monopoly bike repair, and no way to get in or out for anything critical, like utilities, deliveries of large items, emergency services, even- heck of you're having a party how many trips will you make to bring in all the groceries and a sheet cake that doesn't fit in a stupid bike basket?
Yeah - this is idiotic. Remember this is just a little place. Their "grocery store" won't have a lot because trucks deliver food - not bikes. The food will suck because you will probably get vegetables, fake meat, and bugs. Do you really think these people will have meat in their utopia? Old people will die sooner - they won't be riding their bikes or getting meals-on-wheels.
Maybe if it was a big city with public transport it could work for a while. This is too small and too idealistic. Look for it to crumble within 5 years.
Old people? They won't have any old people there! Logan's Run, baby!