President Trump on 𝕏 — "Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. . ."
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That's why I believe it's best to look to what the bible says about the subject. Jesus Himself taught the apostles how to pray. And He never said it's acceptable to pray to created beings (angels, Mary.)
I'm sure some people think I'm just trying to pick a fight, and with sincerity, I am not. I just want to understand why catholics believe it's okay to pray to them. I don't see any biblical support for this and it's a pretty huge deal in the catholic church. I know, because I was raised catholic, l had first holy communion, confirmation and went to catholic school, learned catechism (for more than being taught the bible) and so forth.
In fact, I can distinctly remember being taught by a nun that since Mary is Jesus' mother, He will obey her. So if we pray to her to ask for something, she will tell Him and He will answer our pray and give it to us because He has to be an obedient son.
But nobody has been able to answer this question with biblical proof. And to me, it's a very, very serious thing. Because I love Jesus with all my heart and I want all people to know and love Him the way that I do. And I honestly, sincerely wonder and doubt the salvation of some catholics based on this issue.
1 Kings 8:39 says, "then hear in heaven your dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and render unto every man according to all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;
Only God/Jesus can hear your thoughts and know your heart. Not angels. Not the devil. Only God. And God answering to Mary…lol. She was Jesus earthly mother. A servant. A sinner. Because she was human. Only Jesus was sinless. Only through Jesus can you be saved. The scriptures are clear, a sinner cannot save you. The only way to the Father is through Jesus. Mary focused on what is important. She is amazing. And she would put a switch to alot of folks praying to her instead of Jesus.
Take the WHOLE quote including the last phrase: "for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;" I interpret that as meaning that God is the only one who knows the hearts of ALL the children.... That means, to me that God is the one who can read everyone's mind & everyone's heart. Obviously the devil can read the hearts & mind of SOME people. That's unfortunate, of course, but if the devil had no power at all, then we wouldn't be in this mess in the 1st place!
Archangels can also read the hearts & minds of SOME people & it is certainly OK to request their help. I think Trump wrote this in a brilliant way.to not exclude people of other faiths. He said that we pray comma and do thou oh archangel. That means that we are praying (to God I presume) and that we request a mission of Michael. It is not a prayer to Michael but a request & yes, Michael can read our thoughts if God so allows it
I’ve had the same thoughts as you. This sure seems an awful lot like false god worship. Jesus taught us to pray to the Father and the disciples prayed to the Father and Jesus.
Mary was simply a faithful servant to God and acted as a vessel for God’s son, Jesus. She’s not his heavenly mother. Jesus is also known as the Word, and has been around since before creation (John 1:1). He was just made flesh through her.
Jesus is God incarnate, one Divine Person, two natures (NOT two persons!). It's called the Hypostatic Union in theology. To say that Mary was mother ONLY of the man Jesus is to divide His Divine Person in half which is impossible. She is indeed the Mother of God BECAUSE she is mother of the God-Man Jesus Christ. It's very logical.
God is a trinity, three persons in one God. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Scripture is pretty clear about that. Jesus even prays to his Father, not himself. If Mary is so holy and divine, why not her mother as well? Why isn’t she mentioned more in the New Testament. Do the disciples even mention her? The Bible is the ultimate authority and there is nothing I’ve read to back up those claims.
Mary is not divine, she is a creature and a human, but filled with grace by God in view of her vocation as the vessel and Mother of Jesus, God incarnate. Mary's mother was St. Anne and she is indeed revered from the early church as one who waited and prayed for the coming of the Messiah. She and St. Joachim conceived Mary after years of childless waiting. This is pious tradition passed down, not Scripture. The Bible is indeed sacred, but St. John says if everything Jesus said and did were written down, there would not be room in the world to hold all the books. So obviously there were teachings that were important (from the mouth of God's Son) but were not entered into the canon of Scripture.
Wow, that right there is some mental gymnastics. Sorry fren Mary is NOT the mother of God.
Please follow up (if you choose refute) where in the scripture the term “Hypostatc Union” is mentioned or better defined. Thanks.
Catholics don't follow the non-Catholic Rule of Faith. Catholics would look to the Magesterium for doctrine, not to the Bible per se.
The Catholic Rule of Faith is Scripture + Tradition, which cannot contradict each other.
Catholics believe Jesus gave us a church initially, not a Bible. The Bible came later through His Church.
The Protestant (non-Catholic Christian) Rule of Faith is sola scriptura. Yet even that teaching itself (sola scriptura) cannot be found anywhere in scripture.
In sum, it's a different ecclesiology.
How do you explain Elizabeth's exclamation in Luke 1:28? Here is some further information: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource/56002/mary-the-mother-of-my-lord
Friend, here is a good summary of the term Hypostatic Union, where it came from, and an article by a non-Catholic Christian about the subject. May be more palatable knowing that other Christians do indeed embrace and ascribe to this important truth about Christ.
The term "hypostatic union" originated from the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD. The term is used to describe the belief that Jesus Christ was both fully human and fully divine at the same time. The term comes from the Greek word hypostasis, which means "subsistence" or "individual existence".
The term was used in the context of the Incarnation, to describe the idea that Christ had two natures, but was one person. The Council of Chalcedon's definition of the hypostatic union included four negative statements, including that Jesus Christ was not a third thing, and that the incarnation did not change the divine Son in any substantial way.
The term hypostasis was used by Greek philosophers to distinguish reality from appearances, and it also appears in the Epistles of St. Paul. However, in early church discussions, the word began to be used to refer to the distinctness of the three persons in the Trinity, rather than the sameness of God's essence.
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-the-hypostatic-union
Jesus is God's Son. God Himself was very clear in that. What a loss in the relationship with God and His Son people suffer when they don't understand that. John 14:12 the works that I do shall ue do also, amd greater works than these shallnye do because I go unto my Father.
If that verse is true then how would it work if Christ is God? Our works are energized by God, we could not therefore do more powerful works than God, but we can do greater works than Jesus according to his own words.
God is Spirit and no man hath seen Him at any time, Jesus was seen of many and he had to be baptized and recieve spirit.
Why if hi is supposed to be God. Study where those fables originated.
Yes, Mary was a faithful servant to God Because she said YES to Him. But NO, she didn't simply act as a vessel for God's son. You're going to tell me that Mary was simply a vessel and after she gave birth and then she had no use? lol. Do you understand how holy someone would have to be to carry and then give birth to the Son of God!? You do understand that, through a process called Microchimerism, mothers carry their children's cells in their blood and other tissues even after birth. That would mean that Mary had Jesus' (God's) DNA in her. And to clear something up for you Prots. for the 5,000th time, lol, we do not worship Mary. Worship is reserved for God alone. We venerate her, hold her in high regard, respect the spiritual authority she has, and respect that she is Jesus' Mother. The same goes for the Saints in heaven. It's no different than when people ask one another, "Hey, I'm going through a time or I'm dealing with this thing, could you pray for me?" Seriously, if you actually want to learn about the Catholic faith, go to catholic.com and type in any question you have. You are pretty much guaranteed to find an article or discussion from actual Catholic apologists with an answer to your question.
What does the Bible say about speaking to the dead?
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,”
And where in the bible does it say 'bible alone' or Sola Scriptura as you seem to believe. Dude, just go to the website I told you about and search any question you have. Go, search 'what does the bible say about speaking to the dead?". You'll get an answer to your question and you will learn what Catholics believe about that. You will actually learn something. I guarantee it. Are you going to do it? or are you going to continue relying on your own interpretation of the scriptures?
The nun told you that in reference to the wedding at Cana, a story found in only in John's Gospel. Jesus was not ready to begin his public ministry yet. His reply to Mary when she told Him "They have no more wine" was "Woman, my HOUR has not yet come." But she trusted Him so completely, she told the servants, "Do whatever He tells you." And Jesus did her bidding, hastening the HOUR that figures so largely in John's Gospel, the HOUR of the crucifixion and redemption of the world. Pretty big deal there. Jesus doesn't HAVE to do anything; but these things were recorded that we might believe, as St. John says.
As someone who was baptized Catholic, grew up and left the church for a while, and eventually returned, I can tell you that I didn’t really understand the depth of my Catholic faith. It wasn’t until I started listening to Catholic apologetics on the Catholic Answers radio program that I started to better understand everything. I really encourage you to listen in and learn your faith in a deeper way. You can even go to catholic.com , type in any question you have, and find articles, interviews, etc… on the topic. I hope you decide to look into it. I laugh so hard when I see all these non-Catholics here on GAW trying to explain Catholic teaching and theology. Go to catholic.com , listen to Catholic Answers on the radio, and learn from people who REALLY understand the Catholic faith.
Hmm, I think it’s not that people are directly praying to them, but through them to God or Christ.
Christians, Jews, and Muslims I think all believe God is a busy man. So they assume asking the hierarchy will get a prayer through to the HDIC (Head Dude In Charge). Saints, the Pope, Angels, and even your own passed relatives and friends can be seen as part of the Heavenly Hierarchy to get a message/prayer heard or answered by God or Christ.
Does that make sense?
It’s still a misdirection of prayer. Either God is all knowing and all powerful, or you have to take a number before he gets to you. The Bible has a lot to say about praying to other gods, and praying to angels and saints and Mary is that by any other name. They are not God. We cannot understand God’s power, intellect, and ability to know the hearts, minds, and prayers of every person who calls on Him.
I agree except for the “misdirection”, because You yourself, just like me, don’t know how it actually all works. Again you’re just guessing as are ALL Of Us on God’s communicative higher power.
But for all the religious flamers that are going to OCD on this:
As I said previously, “I’m just guessing” as to why people do as they do in the religious hierarchy is all, people!
Not one of us humans here on Earth knows exactly how it all works in Heaven! You kinda have to be dead to actually, 100%, positively, exactly, figure it out! I’m not dead enough to precisely know!