I was with you until that last sentence, because unis have been the centers of woke commie BS from before the final lap of the elementary and middle school freakout. Very few 'higher institutions' even provide a reasonable education and almost none at a reasonable price. No, the education system needs a serious renovation and until then, I'd strongly recommend seeking alternative paths. Trade, skills, certifications, non-mainstream colleges, anything. Medical pharmaceutical agent system is a sham, law perhaps may be worthwhile if you're unafraid of losing everything fighting for right and just causes, otherwise I guarantee you will be able to find all the information you need outside of those pricey classes.
Perhaps pay for access to their libraries, perhaps audit a few classes if you think they have a super lecturer, but go get real experience in your chosen field as a paid intern and a degree, if needed, from the cheapest place possible. (Student IDs can be valuable for all kinds of discounts.) Only woke hr values big uni names but their influence is dwindling to nothing (we won't look at names anymore, they're more trouble than they're worth, overvalued, and dei is dying). The only other factor for college is if you think you need 'connections' with other students that you can't get elsewhere. I say, lead the charge and make social clubs with other based young people who also refuse to be programmed woke debt slaves.
I live in a "university" town. Everyone, I mean every single person, who works at this university had a Harris sign in their front yard. Some still have the signs up.
These people may be highly book-educated, yet they are dumb. They trust science and believe in man-made global warming/cooling climate change. They are anti-white and woke.
Some Harris supporters aren't dumb. Some are protecting the status quo. Example, protecting business owners who benefit from illegal population accepting lower wages and no benefits. Also, the illegal worker here sending USD home creates windfalls for their family in the home countries.
Truth. I had to flee my hometown in Massachusetts because the illegals have filled up all the apartments, overwhelmed the schools, and pack the hospital with non-paying patients when they fall from their roofing / construction jobs or need to birth more "New Americans".
Several money-wire / transfer services popped up shortly after they arrived so we know for a fact that the money is transferred to 3rd world locations.
I agree with you and I know what universities have become in the west. But where else would one gain an engineering degree to work in an advanced field such as engineering? That was my point and even if universities are commie infested shitholes... The real fix is to remove the rot that has infested all of our institutions.
Auditing classes and self study are not going to get a person an interview or a job offer for STEM positions. You still have to get a degree. The first job to gain experience is the hardest one. IT is an outlier. Anyone can do IT. Here's why...
I am saying this as a system engineer with 20+ years experience and no college degree. I am 100% self taught. Learned Berkeley UNIX, then Linux and Solaris. Along the way taught myself storage and now work as an engineer for a Fortune 20. It can be done but it takes an entire career...
I also know several it folks without degrees, quite successful. Engineering? We can't hire any new graduates right now. Big companies like the one I'm in are starting their own programs because the products of unis now are worse than useless, they're woke. There will be a gap but we need to redo the necessary institutions, if any can be salvaged, else restart from scratch.
I was just speaking of this today with someone. Eiher we clear the rot from our institutions or we find a new way. Maybe apprenticeship programs for high school grads who are up to snuff? Or even companies running their own programs based on their own private criteria. Both are positive if you ask me. I do believe we can salvage the public institutions though. If we don't then the system is setting itself up to fail. All the private/apprenticeship programs will be fraught with fraud and nepotism. It takes good people to run these programs. How do we get there?
Companies are already starting their own- I've seen the recruitment booths at homeschool conferences. Use organizations that have proven track records, and make your own that show real transparency, such that fraud and nepotism would out themselves. Good people are all over, refugees from the corrupt systems, that, like the good vets, will return when called to. Mike Rowe Works is a good network for the trades, real science will have to be redone almost completely after the 200 level, because so much of it is paid misinformation, especially medicine. History too. We will need to dig way back to find any reliable books for most of it. Trust absolutely no one who excelled there in the last few generations (even me lol) unless they show they are not programmed. No more blind "trust the experts!"
"Very few 'higher institutions' even provide a reasonable education and almost none at a reasonable price.... Medical pharmaceutical agent system is a sham, law perhaps may be worthwhile if you're unafraid of losing everything fighting for right and just causes, otherwise I guarantee you will be able to find all the information you need outside of those pricey classes."
People who write like this more often than not simply did not have the chops to perform academically and to parlay their academic success into gainful employment. And no - you will NOT be able to find all the information you need outside of those "pricey" classes. My current bill rate is $750/hr in part because I successfully completed course work, which included "pricey classes," some years ago and I am paid handsomely for what I know and what I do. It was not an easy road to get to this place.
I began my career 43 years ago as temporary lab tech holding 2 BS degrees in Biology and Chemistry (not-Ivy league). I had no scholarships and put myself through college working full time in retail and accounting. Entered pharma research, married my wife (celebrating 40 years this year), entered my first Masters program and completed a MS Biochemistry in 3 years - all night school + thesis. We had 2 children during the time I completed a second Masters in Business (MBA) in 3 years- also night school + thesis. After 10 career years in industry I went to work as a Review Chemist at FDA for 2 years, had 2 more children for 4 total while my wife - a STEM/business grad became a Director of R&D for her company.
I left FDA, returned to the pharma industry in regulatory affairs for another few years, left there, and launched my own consulting firm 29 years ago. Includes work in the legal field serving as a Subject Matter Expert Witness. I live in New England. My 6000 sq. ft. house on 2 acres was paid off 10 years ago. I plan to retire in 2 years. I billed ~ $1MM each of the last two years and our 401(k) is at multi-millions. Took parents in until they passed. Inherited little to nothing - did not outweigh the cost for their care. I and my family are happily un-vaxxed and I turned away business that required vaxxes. All kids college educated and gainfully employed - 3 of 4 hold Masters degrees. Two hold STEM MS's.
I have respect for tradesmen -- one of my grandfathers was a carpenter, and the other was an optician back in the day when they ground their own lenses. My dad was a doctor, wife's dad was a union card carrying electrician. Carpentry and electrical work last as long as the body can physically hold out - both can be brutal on the joints.
Bottom line- Proof's in the pudding: nothing beats stick-to-it-iveness, hard work, sacrifice, academic accomplishment in worthwhile fields of study, avoiding non-manageable debt loads, ultimately becoming debt free, and setting worthwhile goals - and giving thanks along the way for God's blessings. Success in building a career and a business often means more than just investing 40hrs/5 days a week. Too many fail to succeed because they get in their own way -- the willingness to do the hard work, to perform academically, to train adequately, to mature in their perspectives, and to plan their lives in ways that make good use of time too often is simply not there.
Lol TL;DR didn't get past the ignorance, you're ridiculously wrong. I hate the system that I fantastically succeeded in. It's programming and produces exactly what it's designed to produce- compliant, obedient wage slaves prepared for the inevitable consolidation with communism. I didn't learn that the designers of the system wrote that until relatively recently, thanks to the HSLDA, brilliant, dedicated lawyers there. The physics, chemistry, biochemistry, math, programming and business degrees YES could have come from books and nowadays, online teaching. I learned most on my own, from the libraries and the infant internet bulletin boards. I think you gave a life story that's too long and nothing but an anecdote. I have one too and it matters not a whit to the rest of the country, bless your defensive little heart.
TL;DR? The fact that you are so butt hurt suggests otherwise.
That you consider my life story as an "anecdote" of success simply reveals that you don't make it a point to surround yourself with the company of successful and truly accomplished persons, from whom you can learn a thing or two, as I do. Mine is only one of many similar stories. I am no one special. Any reasonably intelligent person can apply a sense of stick-to-it-iveness, hard work, sacrifice, academic accomplishment in worthwhile, objectively assessable and credentialed fields of study and arrive at the satisfying and happy near retirement as I have.
Your original posting was little more than a wailing litany of resentments. No evidence exists in anything you wrote that indicates that you "fantastically succeeded" at anything more than possibly becoming a drone and possibly losing your job to a sanskrit, when the true value of your self-styled in-substantially disciplined education and thinking skills deficits became apparent, and you may not have survived the competence v. cost comparison.
"The physics, chemistry, biochemistry, math, programming and business degrees YES could have come from books and nowadays, online teaching."
Is that what your clearly deficient infant internet board "education" taught you? Mere self-validation does not equate with acquiring seasoned critical thinking skills. Self validation leads to a mistaken sense self importance, and too often leads to an inability to be taught by others more accomplished than you are or ever were. People like you typically don't advance in your career because you come off as an insufferable, demonstrably incompetent know-it-all, incapable of managing change. You alone think you're great, but in truth you add no meaningful value to the employer, team, organization, or client that is measure-able enough to keep you gainfully employed.
You are THAT guy about which I spoke earlier who likely didn't have the chops or personal discipline for completing intellectually challenging academic programs, which in turn contribute to cultivation of an intellectual maturity and reasoning skills, borne of formalized and disciplined thought that opens the door wide for enjoyment of personal and career successes.
I'll challenge you to identify just one duly accredited degree program of merit in physics, chemistry, or biochemistry anywhere that relies only on textbooks and online classes. Course work in these disciplines requires a substantial number of laboratory credits and requires a cultivation of scientific reasoning through instruction beyond what mere texts contain. That kind of learning is achieved at a level requiring disciplined mental maturity which is not accomplished through online classes, or in diaper level chat rooms. Texts and online resources are merely a starting place for learning, but your presently immature level of understanding equates what may be appreciated as some tools of learning with the actual end point of learning itself.
" I learned most on my own, from the libraries and the infant internet bulletin boards."
"infant internet boards"? Listen to yourself. Education out of the mouths of babes, was it? Next thing you'll tell us how you mastered 8-bit on the "Trash-80," and wrote "cpm" and PeachText string onto 12" floppies, and somehow you'll expect readers to be impressed. What value have you added to tech lately without being able to rely on "infant internet boards" anymore? You whine today likely because your self-styled "education" did not prepare you to survive in a line of work that soon outpaced your competence and ability to keep up with the changes.
What ever it was you allegedly learned on your own was inadequate to deliver an education and a successful career path suitable to prevent you from whining about what you mistakenly conclude is supposedly every one else's fault but your own to be able to keep up at this stage of your life.
I provided my story as a testament to a successful career path accomplished in part through rigorous academic training, the type of which you resentfully derided, yet which for me by contrast has led to this present level of satisfying career success.
"I have one too and it matters not a whit to the rest of the country, bless your defensive little heart."
One reasonably expects that if your story was worth telling at all for purposes of acquainting readers with any meaningful successes you would have already done so.
Still not reading this liberal wall of text. Project into the darkness, we'll create the new systems outside your box, and you can lecture the young people who cut corners over your lawn.
I was with you until that last sentence, because unis have been the centers of woke commie BS from before the final lap of the elementary and middle school freakout. Very few 'higher institutions' even provide a reasonable education and almost none at a reasonable price. No, the education system needs a serious renovation and until then, I'd strongly recommend seeking alternative paths. Trade, skills, certifications, non-mainstream colleges, anything. Medical pharmaceutical agent system is a sham, law perhaps may be worthwhile if you're unafraid of losing everything fighting for right and just causes, otherwise I guarantee you will be able to find all the information you need outside of those pricey classes.
Perhaps pay for access to their libraries, perhaps audit a few classes if you think they have a super lecturer, but go get real experience in your chosen field as a paid intern and a degree, if needed, from the cheapest place possible. (Student IDs can be valuable for all kinds of discounts.) Only woke hr values big uni names but their influence is dwindling to nothing (we won't look at names anymore, they're more trouble than they're worth, overvalued, and dei is dying). The only other factor for college is if you think you need 'connections' with other students that you can't get elsewhere. I say, lead the charge and make social clubs with other based young people who also refuse to be programmed woke debt slaves.
I live in a "university" town. Everyone, I mean every single person, who works at this university had a Harris sign in their front yard. Some still have the signs up.
These people may be highly book-educated, yet they are dumb. They trust science and believe in man-made global warming/cooling climate change. They are anti-white and woke.
Some Harris supporters aren't dumb. Some are protecting the status quo. Example, protecting business owners who benefit from illegal population accepting lower wages and no benefits. Also, the illegal worker here sending USD home creates windfalls for their family in the home countries.
👆👆👆
Truth. I had to flee my hometown in Massachusetts because the illegals have filled up all the apartments, overwhelmed the schools, and pack the hospital with non-paying patients when they fall from their roofing / construction jobs or need to birth more "New Americans".
Several money-wire / transfer services popped up shortly after they arrived so we know for a fact that the money is transferred to 3rd world locations.
Could be describing boulder, weedorado.
Yes. Effective programming, mass formation psychosis. Hope we can undo some of it.
I agree with you and I know what universities have become in the west. But where else would one gain an engineering degree to work in an advanced field such as engineering? That was my point and even if universities are commie infested shitholes... The real fix is to remove the rot that has infested all of our institutions.
Auditing classes and self study are not going to get a person an interview or a job offer for STEM positions. You still have to get a degree. The first job to gain experience is the hardest one. IT is an outlier. Anyone can do IT. Here's why...
I am saying this as a system engineer with 20+ years experience and no college degree. I am 100% self taught. Learned Berkeley UNIX, then Linux and Solaris. Along the way taught myself storage and now work as an engineer for a Fortune 20. It can be done but it takes an entire career...
I also know several it folks without degrees, quite successful. Engineering? We can't hire any new graduates right now. Big companies like the one I'm in are starting their own programs because the products of unis now are worse than useless, they're woke. There will be a gap but we need to redo the necessary institutions, if any can be salvaged, else restart from scratch.
I was just speaking of this today with someone. Eiher we clear the rot from our institutions or we find a new way. Maybe apprenticeship programs for high school grads who are up to snuff? Or even companies running their own programs based on their own private criteria. Both are positive if you ask me. I do believe we can salvage the public institutions though. If we don't then the system is setting itself up to fail. All the private/apprenticeship programs will be fraught with fraud and nepotism. It takes good people to run these programs. How do we get there?
Companies are already starting their own- I've seen the recruitment booths at homeschool conferences. Use organizations that have proven track records, and make your own that show real transparency, such that fraud and nepotism would out themselves. Good people are all over, refugees from the corrupt systems, that, like the good vets, will return when called to. Mike Rowe Works is a good network for the trades, real science will have to be redone almost completely after the 200 level, because so much of it is paid misinformation, especially medicine. History too. We will need to dig way back to find any reliable books for most of it. Trust absolutely no one who excelled there in the last few generations (even me lol) unless they show they are not programmed. No more blind "trust the experts!"
"Very few 'higher institutions' even provide a reasonable education and almost none at a reasonable price.... Medical pharmaceutical agent system is a sham, law perhaps may be worthwhile if you're unafraid of losing everything fighting for right and just causes, otherwise I guarantee you will be able to find all the information you need outside of those pricey classes."
People who write like this more often than not simply did not have the chops to perform academically and to parlay their academic success into gainful employment. And no - you will NOT be able to find all the information you need outside of those "pricey" classes. My current bill rate is $750/hr in part because I successfully completed course work, which included "pricey classes," some years ago and I am paid handsomely for what I know and what I do. It was not an easy road to get to this place.
I began my career 43 years ago as temporary lab tech holding 2 BS degrees in Biology and Chemistry (not-Ivy league). I had no scholarships and put myself through college working full time in retail and accounting. Entered pharma research, married my wife (celebrating 40 years this year), entered my first Masters program and completed a MS Biochemistry in 3 years - all night school + thesis. We had 2 children during the time I completed a second Masters in Business (MBA) in 3 years- also night school + thesis. After 10 career years in industry I went to work as a Review Chemist at FDA for 2 years, had 2 more children for 4 total while my wife - a STEM/business grad became a Director of R&D for her company.
I left FDA, returned to the pharma industry in regulatory affairs for another few years, left there, and launched my own consulting firm 29 years ago. Includes work in the legal field serving as a Subject Matter Expert Witness. I live in New England. My 6000 sq. ft. house on 2 acres was paid off 10 years ago. I plan to retire in 2 years. I billed ~ $1MM each of the last two years and our 401(k) is at multi-millions. Took parents in until they passed. Inherited little to nothing - did not outweigh the cost for their care. I and my family are happily un-vaxxed and I turned away business that required vaxxes. All kids college educated and gainfully employed - 3 of 4 hold Masters degrees. Two hold STEM MS's.
I have respect for tradesmen -- one of my grandfathers was a carpenter, and the other was an optician back in the day when they ground their own lenses. My dad was a doctor, wife's dad was a union card carrying electrician. Carpentry and electrical work last as long as the body can physically hold out - both can be brutal on the joints.
Bottom line- Proof's in the pudding: nothing beats stick-to-it-iveness, hard work, sacrifice, academic accomplishment in worthwhile fields of study, avoiding non-manageable debt loads, ultimately becoming debt free, and setting worthwhile goals - and giving thanks along the way for God's blessings. Success in building a career and a business often means more than just investing 40hrs/5 days a week. Too many fail to succeed because they get in their own way -- the willingness to do the hard work, to perform academically, to train adequately, to mature in their perspectives, and to plan their lives in ways that make good use of time too often is simply not there.
Lol TL;DR didn't get past the ignorance, you're ridiculously wrong. I hate the system that I fantastically succeeded in. It's programming and produces exactly what it's designed to produce- compliant, obedient wage slaves prepared for the inevitable consolidation with communism. I didn't learn that the designers of the system wrote that until relatively recently, thanks to the HSLDA, brilliant, dedicated lawyers there. The physics, chemistry, biochemistry, math, programming and business degrees YES could have come from books and nowadays, online teaching. I learned most on my own, from the libraries and the infant internet bulletin boards. I think you gave a life story that's too long and nothing but an anecdote. I have one too and it matters not a whit to the rest of the country, bless your defensive little heart.
TL;DR? The fact that you are so butt hurt suggests otherwise.
That you consider my life story as an "anecdote" of success simply reveals that you don't make it a point to surround yourself with the company of successful and truly accomplished persons, from whom you can learn a thing or two, as I do. Mine is only one of many similar stories. I am no one special. Any reasonably intelligent person can apply a sense of stick-to-it-iveness, hard work, sacrifice, academic accomplishment in worthwhile, objectively assessable and credentialed fields of study and arrive at the satisfying and happy near retirement as I have.
Your original posting was little more than a wailing litany of resentments. No evidence exists in anything you wrote that indicates that you "fantastically succeeded" at anything more than possibly becoming a drone and possibly losing your job to a sanskrit, when the true value of your self-styled in-substantially disciplined education and thinking skills deficits became apparent, and you may not have survived the competence v. cost comparison.
"The physics, chemistry, biochemistry, math, programming and business degrees YES could have come from books and nowadays, online teaching."
Is that what your clearly deficient infant internet board "education" taught you? Mere self-validation does not equate with acquiring seasoned critical thinking skills. Self validation leads to a mistaken sense self importance, and too often leads to an inability to be taught by others more accomplished than you are or ever were. People like you typically don't advance in your career because you come off as an insufferable, demonstrably incompetent know-it-all, incapable of managing change. You alone think you're great, but in truth you add no meaningful value to the employer, team, organization, or client that is measure-able enough to keep you gainfully employed.
You are THAT guy about which I spoke earlier who likely didn't have the chops or personal discipline for completing intellectually challenging academic programs, which in turn contribute to cultivation of an intellectual maturity and reasoning skills, borne of formalized and disciplined thought that opens the door wide for enjoyment of personal and career successes.
I'll challenge you to identify just one duly accredited degree program of merit in physics, chemistry, or biochemistry anywhere that relies only on textbooks and online classes. Course work in these disciplines requires a substantial number of laboratory credits and requires a cultivation of scientific reasoning through instruction beyond what mere texts contain. That kind of learning is achieved at a level requiring disciplined mental maturity which is not accomplished through online classes, or in diaper level chat rooms. Texts and online resources are merely a starting place for learning, but your presently immature level of understanding equates what may be appreciated as some tools of learning with the actual end point of learning itself.
" I learned most on my own, from the libraries and the infant internet bulletin boards."
"infant internet boards"? Listen to yourself. Education out of the mouths of babes, was it? Next thing you'll tell us how you mastered 8-bit on the "Trash-80," and wrote "cpm" and PeachText string onto 12" floppies, and somehow you'll expect readers to be impressed. What value have you added to tech lately without being able to rely on "infant internet boards" anymore? You whine today likely because your self-styled "education" did not prepare you to survive in a line of work that soon outpaced your competence and ability to keep up with the changes.
What ever it was you allegedly learned on your own was inadequate to deliver an education and a successful career path suitable to prevent you from whining about what you mistakenly conclude is supposedly every one else's fault but your own to be able to keep up at this stage of your life.
I provided my story as a testament to a successful career path accomplished in part through rigorous academic training, the type of which you resentfully derided, yet which for me by contrast has led to this present level of satisfying career success.
"I have one too and it matters not a whit to the rest of the country, bless your defensive little heart."
One reasonably expects that if your story was worth telling at all for purposes of acquainting readers with any meaningful successes you would have already done so.
Still not reading this liberal wall of text. Project into the darkness, we'll create the new systems outside your box, and you can lecture the young people who cut corners over your lawn.