Was this a mask off moment for Elon? Is he truly a White Hat, or is he a Trojan Horse infiltrating the movement, or is he just a useful tool for the White Hats to use? I personally don't trust him as an individual, but I still believe that he can be a strategic chess piece in the process.
Why is he engaging with concern troll posts and insinuating that a large percentage of MAGA are contemptible racists that need to be rooted out from the party? The way he has handled this whole debacle has raised a lot of red flags on him for me as an individual.
Clott Adams parrots a post of a dem operative pretending to be outraged by the H-1B debate
Scott: "MAGA is taking a page from Democrats on how to lose elections while feeling good about themselves".
- The post he is referencing is by Neera Tanden who claims the H-1B debate is an example of why being a Democrat is the only choice for her and Indian Americans.
- Even Jack Poso responds pointing out her questionable background: "Neera Tanden works for Soros and Podesta"
- Sauce: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1872744295884841262
How does Elon respond to this double whammy of a concern troll post? With agreement and more threats:
- "Yes. And those contemptible fools must be removed from the Republican Party, root and stem."
- "The "contemptible fools" I'm referring to are those in the Republican Party who are hateful, unrepentant racists. They will absolutely be the downfall of the Republican Party if they are not removed."
This on the back of Musk also vowing to go to war on the H-1B issue the likes of which we cannot possibly comprehend.
My big problem with all of this, is who is defining what qualifies you as being an "unrepentant racist"?
- I have observed the discourse closely over the past five days and the vast majority of people raising their concerns just don't want to be displaced and have their culture subverted.
- This is where they will hit you with the good ol', "America is a nation of immigrants" line.
- Statements like this are used to shut down discussion and also ignore all context and nuance on the matter.
- Never before in our nation's history has our country been flooded from all angles on such a level. There must be a mass halting followed by major reformations, and that is why this debate has been so important.
Another question I have is why does Elon interact with Ian Mile Cheong so much?
- I have noticed him both reposting and responding to him quite a bit recently.
- For those that aren't aware of who Ian Miles Cheong is, here is a small glimpse into his shaky history: https://x.com/CensoredMen/status/1755680100060651670
- An example of their recent interactions: https://x.com/stillgray/status/1872798065142485214
Ian: Some of these subtards are going to be incredibly disappointed to find out you're not a racist like they are.
Elon: The point was not to replace DEI, which is one form of racism/sexism, with a different form of racism/sexism, but rather to be a meritocratic society!
Even here I find Elon's statement to be wild and misleading. Likening the current discourse as another form of DEI is both extremely disrespectful and intellectually dishonest.
- The vast majority of the MAGA movement arguing against H-1B's are not against meritocracy.
- They just don't want American jobs to be displaced by corrupt systems that allow them to hire cheap labor under the guise of "muh top .1%" when in reality these programs in large are not recruiting the best and the brightest.
- Even the records show that the H-1B hires at Elon's companies are mostly entry level positions receiving less pay.
- Here is a great thread analyzing the past 5 years of H-1B data and how problematic it truly is: https://x.com/RobertMSterling/status/1873174358535110953
Americans for tech jobs are NO LONGER CONSIDERED. They are getting no recruiting calls. Companies get a tax break of 8% because they do not have to pay payroll tax on H1B's. H1B's work for 30% less for 5 years to get a green card.
It is not a back fill for jobs.... it is a direct replacement. Nothing more.
💯
I used to be a Democrat. I moved away from them after I realized that there is no such thing as being 99% Democrat. You have to be all-in. You have to agree with 100% of what they tell you to believe in. If you disagree with one single thing then they shun you and call you far-right.
It's ridiculous.
I'm glad I became a Republican because they don't behave like that.
I mean, they didn't until now.
Elon has every right to have an opinion that we disagree with. One contrary opinion doesn't make him a "Trojan horse infiltrating the movement". He has his reasons for thinking the way he does but even I personally am disappointed by his stance on that topic.
But I have been disappointed with my own wife for some opinions she has that conflicts with my own. I'm not going to disregard everything else she has ever said and done because of that one single opinion.
We're better than the liberals, aren't we? They love seeing us turn against each other over one single topic.
Having different opinions on face value is okay and I agree with your general sentiment. However, there is a matter of difference of opinions and then using leftist talking points to indicate that a significant percentage of MAGA is racist and needs to be rooted out. You don't join our movement and then start sounding the horns to clean our house. Those are the actions that flag him as a potential Trojan Horse figure for me.
this!!
My wife is an English immigrant and she became a citizen. She knows more about the history of the US and of the Constitution than any born-and-bred American that I know.
I would rather have America populated with people who appreciate living under the Constitution because they learned what it means than to have the country filled with a bunch of people willing to sacrifice the future of this country for trinkets today.
I don't care where somebody was born, what religion they are, what language they were taught as a child, or what shade of brown their skin is as long as they know what America used to be and what it can be again. That really is the point of America to begin with.
For all the invaders coming here for free stuff, for all the people here who hate American citizens and the American way of life and those who oppose the Republican form of government, those refusing to speak English, those who bash Christianity and family values. Fuck those people. Whether they are foreigners or if they were born here. Being a natural born citizen means nothing when it comes to people who want to see America destroyed or are just plain dumb enough to allow it to be destroyed because a celebrity told them it was the right thing to do.
Naturalized citizens who appeared on videos leading up to the election who proudly supported Trump were seen as a novelty. As a rarity. But that's not true. People who fled communist nations and dictatorships know what America can become if the people who were born here stop fighting. They are not novelties. They carry the spirt that the fathers of this country had.
We need to keep the foreigners who know the Constitution and deport every natural born American who voted for Kamala Harris.
Neither pro-American nor anti-American is determined by where in the world somebody was born.
This is why.
They also changed the H1B Visa effective on January 17th.
The Biden administration is making it difficult for Trump to change it.
This is why Elon and Vivek went out talking about this in order to get the public informed.
I definitely think the public discourse was meant to happen and needed to happen. On the bottom of the 5 year H-1B analysis thread, Elon actually put forth specific measures on how H-1B could be reformed. Which is a really good thing that came out of the heated debate.
Yes.
Hopefully that is the case.
Dave on X22 said it.
...compelling observations and questions, expertly stated and framed...
Thanks fren.
It looks like Elon is a gray hat with a possible hidden agenda. The honeymoon was abruptly ended when he let the genie out of the bottle with his emotional and sideways meltdown that was directed at The American People.
An old saying goes that rich people get rich by being frugal. Trust is easily broken and so hard to get back if you can even get it back at all.
Agreed. Him being a gray hat is the most likely assumption to me.
Funny how noticing always seems to be racist.
This is the most infuriating part. It's sad that they continue to try and play that card even now, and even more sad that for some people it seems to be landing.
Elon acting like he has power all over the place. He has No more than you or me. We can say what we want, without authority. He does have authority to censor posts and went out and did that when someone questioned his stance on this issue Lauta Liomer.
Trump will steer him back into his lane.
READ OUR BILLS AND NOTE THE WASTE FOR US. Stop walking to areas you don't belong, Elon.
This is another thing I didn't get to touch on in my post because it was getting too long. Is that he has nonstop championed "freedom of speech", but at the same time has engaged in a lot of censorship. Many dissenting voiced were silenced throughout this whole debate.
I keep hearing about censorship coming from Elon. Did you know he isn't even the CEO of X? It is this woman (sorry for wiki): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Yaccarino
Look at her bio. Then remember there are still some libs left at X, and they haven't gotten all of the hidden algos out of the X code yet. It is entirely possible he doesn't have anything to do with what is going on behind the scenes at X - especially since he is working with Trump at the moment.
Elon knows Loomer well, and about her mental health issues. Has been diagnosed at various times by various doctors suffering from bipolar, histrionic personality disorder, borderine personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. Her mother has some of the same disorders, as well as her two brothers. One is a violent schizophrenic permanently incarcerated in a psychiatric facility, the other has been in and out of institutions all his life suffering from depression and mood disorders. ' Laura Loomer X' "From a mental health perspective, censorship by BIG TECH is very dangerous. It can be deadly, actually. Many people suffer from depression. Including myself. What do you think a clinically depressed person will do when BIG TECH takes away their speech outlet? Suicide". Bannon would be wise to distance himself from who he privately called a "massive racist", who started the fight with Elon. Bannon is not a racist.
Loomer isn't the only one getting caught in the crossfire. And Elon is actively reposting and interacting with an actual verified racist "Ian Miles Cheong", so I don't think that is actually an issue to him. It's just virtue signaling to get his way with policy.
one aspect of Trump and Musk using over-the-top theatrics, is it shows other countries that we have no fear of contrarians, and bringing up unpopular opinions is how we play the game - something impossible in many places that would consider themselves contenders for world power.
Let's have some current posts from Elon,he has backed off his shitposting.
...I expected better from Musk...
...but deep inside, I am not shocked...
He 👀 our point i belive.
Mass immigration is literally a key plank of the communist agenda to divide and rule, set people against each other, and to destroy nations from within. It must end. But nobody wants to shut the door of someone holding the plans to a free energy device, no matter where they come from.
That said, these visas are obviously a fraud.
I’m going to reserve judgment for now. This feels very manufactured and it’s almost like it’s designed to get everyone talking and focusing and discussing H1B Vosas. Do I think that we should get the best talent from foreign nations? Of course. However, that isn’t what the H1B visa program is being used for— it’s just another way to destroy America from the inside with outside actors. I don’t disagree with Elon and Vivek that there has been a drastic shift in attitude and ability of Americans, but that’s because we’ve had our educational institutions ruined, and because our Universities are funding overseas programs using taxpayer money for a fraction of the cost to replace us.
Apathy is real, and being a straight white male is horrible for today’s tech market. So of course we are demoralized and feeling listless. I spent five years in Afghanistan as a contractor and coming home saw the covid lockdowns, losses of multiple job opportunities, rejected applications, and of course that ever present useless ass degree I was tricked into getting. All of my work experience is outside of my degree, and the defense industry is actively hostile and not a place I feel like working in. I haven’t had a job in four years because I don’t want to just… work at the gas station down the road or stock store shelves. I had a great job overseas, really rewarding, and it paid great as well. I just didn’t believe my co-workers who’d been over there longer than I had when they said that coming overseas for an anything more than a year was a mistake. Lol Inflated sense of self-worth and huge paychecks.
Now that I truly know how bad stuff is I don’t want to be involved in the industry anymore and I now have to figure out just what the hell interests me enough to do full time.
I really want to have my own ammunition business because reloading is my hobby that I enjoy, and nothing is better than seeing a barrel of spent casings and turning it into functional ammunition again but man I dont know where to start and I doubt the ATF makes it easy to get involved in the industry.
Meh. Way off track, but anyway I feel like it’s just a Trump backed WWF special. I haven’t seen him address it (he may have) but I feel like if this was truly something he didn’t want to happen he would have reached out and pulled Musk and Vivek in to cut it out already. It feels like the same old song and dance— start some controversy, get the media pundits, idiots, reactionaries and whatnot yapping, draw everyone’s attention, point out all of the problems on both sides of the issue and then work on a solution once gossip has spread.
It’s just a shame that some of the ‘thought leaders’ on our side either can’t see this for what it is… or are part of the action. (And grifters seem to be deliberately misportraying the issue and what was said.)
I respect the decision to reserve judgment and definitely can see it as being kabuki theater to move the needle on the issue publicly. I agree with your assessment about the situation regarding the universities, and I also want to add that the fact that this has all been done by design is what made Vivek's comments even more enraging to me.
The problem is, his jab at our culture was intertwined with lies, truths, and half truths. It was a poor attempt at creating a scapegoat, failed to encapsulate the full picture, and insulted Americans in the process. In some ways it put the blame on the shoulder of the American people for what they chose to value, rather than calling out the real multi-headed hydra that created this situation.
For example, the idea of valuing the jock over the valedictorian. Is this fully true? Even if it is, how far back does it go? Afaik Americans have always valued physical prowess, and even still we remained at the forefront of innovation around the world. Think about the movies Revenge of the Nerds, that concept was already being played out in the 80s, and even at that time we were still leading innovation. Was our culture a major hindrance then? Is our culture the main culprit now?
I will cut him some slack and say, yes our culture has slipped further since the 80s. But how do we quantify the amount? How do we quantify the actual impact on the quality of engineers, and is that the main reason we have to result to hiring foreigners that don't share our values on H-1B visas? Is there even a shortage of engineers and STEM graduates in the US like they suggest is the case? From what I've seen with people pouring through the data, the answer is no. So why then are we doing it? Is it for cheap indentured labor? Not only that, it gets worse when you dig into the quality of workers we are really getting from these programs. Are they really sending their best and their brightest? In most cases from what I've seen, I don't think so. So when you digest all of that and then read Vivek's elaborate speel on us arriving at this point due to problems with our culture, it then can be seen for an even bigger slap to the face.
What's worse, is that people trying to vent their frustrations and not knowing exactly how to do so in the most fruitful manner are getting labeled as racists. It's like when someone instigates violence against you in a school setting and the teachers didn't see it, but then you retaliate out of defense and end up being the one getting in trouble and labeled violent. It's fucking sick, and this is the type of shit that radicalizes people because they feel they have no voice. Especially those on the MAGA side who don't frequent places like GAW where they can see the bigger picture and cool off.
Anyways, my rant is getting too long. I didn't even get to respond to the other parts of your post. I'm sorry about your current struggles fren and I will be praying you are able to find your way. I've been in a bit of a similar boat in recent years, all we can do is keep on pushing and do our best to follow our souls towards what we hope will be the right path.
I can't specifically speak to technology degrees but as for "foreign students" being more "intellectually gifted" -- that is a load of hogwash.
My daughter told me years ago that the foreign students in her university classes had cheating down to a fine art. Now these fine ladies and gentlemen took the places in medical schools with their "stellar" GPA's that were the result of such methods. Places, that would have gone to American students had they not cheated their way into better grades.
People might wonder why none of the American students blew the whistle on them. I certainly would have -- but my daughter is among that generation of kids who were brainwashed since their first day of school to believe that if someone has more pigment in their skin nothing should ever be said against them. So I am not surprised that in an atmosphere where grades determine the future, she and her fellow poor brainwashed saps sat by and let their opportunities be stolen.
My point is -- I sincerely doubt this tendency toward dishonesty in academics is restricted to the pursuit of entrance to medical school. So if Musk believes that extra pigment equates to extra brain power I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell him.
I don't mind competing for a job. Most large companies have fixed grade salary scales, so if you are hired as an "Engineer IV" - there is a published matrix of the pay scales.
Foreigners are paid the SAME rate as Native's.
What makes me mad, is the EMPLOYERS get a 8% payroll tax DISCOUNT that only applies to foreign workers, through a program called OPT - a program that bypassed Congress. This program needs to be DESTROYED..
https://x.com/numbersusa/status/1872735548051472577?s=46
And, since companies are primarily focused on "the bottom line" and since people tend to hire "people like themselves", whole departments' demographics/ethnic makeups tend to VERY QUICKLY become similar to that of those who provide the company 8% OPT payroll discounts soon after 1) hiring managers are rewarded for cutting payroll costs and/or 2) OPT employees become hiring managers.
Financial penalties for hiring non-Americans. Could solve the issue. As for Elon, people resent that he speaks his opinions that differ from their own and that he kisses no one's ass. He would not avoid being straightforward with Trump, either. He did not get Trump's respect by sugar-coating anything.
Trump needs to distance himself from him. He is insulting and threatening to his (supposedly) own side.
Question: how can a man who runs Space X, The Boring Company, Tesla, X, etc. have so much time to spend Tweeting? Many of his tweets aren't even smart, they're an silly distraction. It doesn't add up.
Why does he reference movies, memes, and cartoon characters? Seriously? He has the time and interest to keep up with the culture of cartoon characters?
What kind of adult does that? Not a mature one, and not one that has any place in our government.
And now he is playing the racist card? This is a cheap and predicable strategy when you've lost the argument.
He also has the time to push Diablo 4 endgame and now Path of Exile 2 endgame. He is either one of the most hyper-efficient and effective operators of all time, or it could all be an act.
I'm not sure where I land on that one, I do think it's possible that he is an absolute elite tier individual, but I also don't find the contrary to be farfetched either.
As far as if Trump should distance himself from him, I am going to give that one a little more time to see how things play out. That being said, my biggest thing I wanted to communicate to people here is that we should always remain skeptical. The thought that we should just trust and follow has been somewhat pervasive around here lately, and I couldn't disagree with that line of thinking any more.
If we don't speak up when we see something that's clearly counter to all that we've been fighting for, then we become the sheeple that we've criticized others as being.
Elon has repeatedly said the voice of the people is the voice of God. Well, the people have spoken, and look at how he reacts.
Let's not forget the power we have. We've been brainwashed into believing we are powerless. We are not!
Having said all of this, he has done a lot for our movement. It's too bad, though, that this one person can have so much power over all of our lives. We can't let our guard down, there is too much at stake.