Weren't these people just trying to live their lives, soverign, on their own land on their terms? And weren't they burned alive, including women and kids?
Yeah I don't know the full details. I'd have to look them up. I know they were labeled a religious cult and were surrounded by like 900 agents. They were living off grid, on their own terms. Eventually the compound was burned, killilng near 100 people.
David Chipman, Biden Appointee for the ATF, was there. I have the picture of him with smoldering remains in the background. I also remember seeing a smuggled out IR aerial video of the assault on the compound showing short-burst automatic weapons usage by the assault team back in the 90's. Unbelievable that it happened, yet also surreal that all of the reckoning going on before our eyes.
In the documentary, Waco: A New Revelation, made in 2000, they show a video of a helicopter killing a teenager with an automatic weapon while he was on top of a tower. His body was there for days because any Davidian who tries to retrieve the body drew fire. This was weeks before the final raid. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259731/
I watched the hearings. Reno's attitude toward the whole proceeding was "I take full responsibility---and fuck you." The arrogance and disdain was almost palpable.
Remember the murder of Lavoy Finikin,who leapt from the truck to stop them from firing randomly into it.Where other unwanted people were.Ruby ridge.Shooting a woman holding her baby,looking out the door.A boy whose dog you had just murdered,over a sawed off shotgun.Igniting cs gas at Waco,saying you didn't know it would ignite,when every veteran knows it was used in exactly this manner in the tunnels of Vietnam.
Or the ATF. I believe the ATF was formed to collect tax on firearm sales, as well as alcohol, and tobacco. It was not meant to act as police, make policy, or rules on guns. It is acting in an unconstitutional manner.
You ask "Why?". Curious. Expand your thoughts on your position. You seem to have a unique perspective on what should and should not be.
If no FBI as you seem to be steadfast on, who would you have or believe to be conduct Federal level law enforcement? How would you ensure compliance with Federal level laws?
How did we function before the FBI's creation? Arguably a lot better. More freer. Less prone to abuse. So what if they reform the FBI? What about after Trump? Why maintain systems that permit corruption?
True. I like the idea of actual law enforcement to the US Marshals. IF the FBI is kept, then regulate laws that they do what their name says... Investigate and leave the enforcement to the Marshals.
There's obviously a lot of things to think through, and we're at a place in time to do it. The chain of command (in general) goes to Town sheriff->county sheriff->state police->federal marshall/FBI (I'm not perfect, feel free to correct me). Each has their boundaries, but IIRC the local constable has the most authority to make an arrest under local all the way up to federal laws being broke whereas anything not under federal law would restrict RBI involvement. Getting a prosecutor to actually make the arrest stick, now that's an entirely different subject. Still an important consideration however.
The base problem appears to be "secret society" groups/nations that have patiently but actively been working in the background to only advance all their homies up the chains of command regardless of the structure or organization. Yes, there's plenty of tree pruning to do, and we need to be discussing these future changes now to vet the process. But to get rid of "XXX" department or agency without thinking it through, as much as they've pissed us off by bad members leading it, probably isn't the best possible path.
Except the Clowns of course. Those guys are just plain @$$hats.
Oh, come on. The FBI and ATF wanted a BBQ and the Branch Dividians said "No". That got the agents all butt hurt and they proceeded anyway. The Dividians just happened to be in the way, no ill harm was ever meant. (sarcasm)
Claimed 2036 time traveler John Titor, 177th Temporal Recon.
Feb 21, 2001:
"Have you see the documentary on Waco? [...] It’s called “Waco – Rules of Engagement.” Just for argument’s sake,what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusationsmade against the law enforcement officers there?Would you hope....nothing?"
Weren't these people just trying to live their lives, soverign, on their own land on their terms? And weren't they burned alive, including women and kids?
So fucked up.
Yup, watched it live on TV. It was horrific. I knew right then and there our government was evil.
I was too young to know what happened. If that's the case, that's just messed up
Yeah I don't know the full details. I'd have to look them up. I know they were labeled a religious cult and were surrounded by like 900 agents. They were living off grid, on their own terms. Eventually the compound was burned, killilng near 100 people.
just wander how these evil pcs of crap got to the position where they control things like this. Beyond evil.
If any of the perpretors from the FBI & ATF still have a pulse today, Kash needs to round them up and make them uncomfortable.
David Chipman, Biden Appointee for the ATF, was there. I have the picture of him with smoldering remains in the background. I also remember seeing a smuggled out IR aerial video of the assault on the compound showing short-burst automatic weapons usage by the assault team back in the 90's. Unbelievable that it happened, yet also surreal that all of the reckoning going on before our eyes.
In the documentary, Waco: A New Revelation, made in 2000, they show a video of a helicopter killing a teenager with an automatic weapon while he was on top of a tower. His body was there for days because any Davidian who tries to retrieve the body drew fire. This was weeks before the final raid. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259731/
This and ruby ridge and the OKC bombing woke me up to how evil the govt was.
Me too.
It was hard to miss. I also heard Bo Gritz speak and he had some good info.
Thank you Janet Reno...oh, let's not forget "Boner Bill" Clinton as well....
Janet Reno is the longest serving AG because she threatened Bill, that if he would ever fire her she will: "tell the truth about Waco"
I saw that on live tv and said "heads will roll!" It was so completely over the top outrageously incompetent and preventable!!
No heads ever rolled, no one was even fired!
Janet Reno took "full responsibility" and then?? nothing. She went on to deport Elian Gonzales.
I watched the hearings. Reno's attitude toward the whole proceeding was "I take full responsibility---and fuck you." The arrogance and disdain was almost palpable.
It was absolutely awful! It was a crime against humanity!
Remember the murder of Lavoy Finikin,who leapt from the truck to stop them from firing randomly into it.Where other unwanted people were.Ruby ridge.Shooting a woman holding her baby,looking out the door.A boy whose dog you had just murdered,over a sawed off shotgun.Igniting cs gas at Waco,saying you didn't know it would ignite,when every veteran knows it was used in exactly this manner in the tunnels of Vietnam.
I watched it go down livestream on the internet.
Which one Lavoy ?
Yes
I think I remember seeing footage from the helicopter as well.
That was sickening,murder,and they got away with it.
There's no statute of limitations on the prosecution of a murder.
I sure would love that.
Many of us would.
Not abolish, but CLEAN HOUSE!!!! ATF can go or be absorbed into FBI.
I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why the FBI should remain.
Or the ATF. I believe the ATF was formed to collect tax on firearm sales, as well as alcohol, and tobacco. It was not meant to act as police, make policy, or rules on guns. It is acting in an unconstitutional manner.
Concur with your comments on ATF. It was a covert effort by the DS/Federal Reserve to grab guns under the guise of tobacco and moonshining.
The FBI in and of itself is a sound idea, it's the corrupt leadership THAT MUST GO!!
Why?
You ask "Why?". Curious. Expand your thoughts on your position. You seem to have a unique perspective on what should and should not be. If no FBI as you seem to be steadfast on, who would you have or believe to be conduct Federal level law enforcement? How would you ensure compliance with Federal level laws?
The u s martial service.
OK. I'm on board with that. The FBI should be scaled way back and regulated to its name sake (Investigation only). Arrests made by the U.S. Marshals.
As it should be.
How did we function before the FBI's creation? Arguably a lot better. More freer. Less prone to abuse. So what if they reform the FBI? What about after Trump? Why maintain systems that permit corruption?
True. I like the idea of actual law enforcement to the US Marshals. IF the FBI is kept, then regulate laws that they do what their name says... Investigate and leave the enforcement to the Marshals.
There's obviously a lot of things to think through, and we're at a place in time to do it. The chain of command (in general) goes to Town sheriff->county sheriff->state police->federal marshall/FBI (I'm not perfect, feel free to correct me). Each has their boundaries, but IIRC the local constable has the most authority to make an arrest under local all the way up to federal laws being broke whereas anything not under federal law would restrict RBI involvement. Getting a prosecutor to actually make the arrest stick, now that's an entirely different subject. Still an important consideration however.
The base problem appears to be "secret society" groups/nations that have patiently but actively been working in the background to only advance all their homies up the chains of command regardless of the structure or organization. Yes, there's plenty of tree pruning to do, and we need to be discussing these future changes now to vet the process. But to get rid of "XXX" department or agency without thinking it through, as much as they've pissed us off by bad members leading it, probably isn't the best possible path.
Except the Clowns of course. Those guys are just plain @$$hats.
The day the hideous horrifying truth about our agencies was revealed.
End the ATF and raze the building in D.C.
Oh, come on. The FBI and ATF wanted a BBQ and the Branch Dividians said "No". That got the agents all butt hurt and they proceeded anyway. The Dividians just happened to be in the way, no ill harm was ever meant. (sarcasm)
We must DESTROY THE ATF!
Janet Reno, the OG DEI hire.
I concur.
And let’s not forget the little known fact that Obama bombed a Michigan militia town. Many people don’t know about that.
Has anyone ever asked the FBI agents involved how they feel about being responsible for all those people dying?
Claimed 2036 time traveler John Titor, 177th Temporal Recon.
Feb 21, 2001:
"Have you see the documentary on Waco? [...] It’s called “Waco – Rules of Engagement.” Just for argument’s sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope....nothing?"
🍿