I was a body builder for decades, with lots of lean visible muscle. Six months on the keto diet took away my quads, hamstrings, and glutes, substituting loose skin.
The cancer did not care; like the healthy cells, it used oxygen metabolism.
In the mean time, I have to develop my strong musculature all over again!
I never expected this! The keto diet was supposed to kill cancer cells which rely upon sugar. Instead, it robbed me of my muscles of decades of exercise.
Thank you! But this post was not about me but to provide info for others to use! Discernment is very hard. I stuck to the keto diet completely! But in the end it ate up my wonderful muscles!!
OK I have to go back into muscle building! And enough carbs for energy! The cancer be damned, I can't do anything about it, except to live my life.
I lost fat too, but I was lean going into it. So it went for my muscles, which I did not expect.
My protocol included fenben and lots of supplements to enhance that function. Everything including the kitchen sink! HA!
I KNEW that the cancer protocol was going to work!! It made total sense! Until it didn't. So I have to conclude my slow-growing tumor is still using aerobic oxygen metabolism. Hence able to survive along with the healthy cells that are able to use fat and protein for energy in the absence of sugar.
The protocols seem designed to starve the anerobic cancers which survive on fermentation of sugar and cannot use the fats and proteins for energy.
But I did not expect the treatment, even if it did not work, which I did NOT expect, to eat up my very muscles!
I underwent a complete cancer protocol from my integrative doc. It included fenben but not ivermectin. He has had success and I am the only one he recalls with stage 1 cancer that it did not work for.
Appreciate your sharing. I follow a Dr. Courtney Hunt and she harps on the difference b/n a keto or carnivore “diet” and ketosis as a metabolic state. Eating for your genetics, fasting fairly regularly, HIIT, and feasting. I am learning and trying things slowly as I pick them up from her. Best wishes for you to make it back to thriving, Fren!
I thought the Keto Diet used fat and Carbos for energy and not muscle? So this isn't correct? And was it because the Keto, too much protein or lack of enough calories?
I think not enough calories and not enough body fat to be consumed for energy, hence using muscle. But a weight loss diet can do the same thing. I am coming to think, that a too low carb diet does not provide enough energy for the body. I followed the low carb keto diet to the nth degree. It ended using ME up! Carbs exist for a reason, for energy. Maybe a keto diet with enough calories would work, but as I remarked, I would have had to eat whale blubber or drink olive oil to get enough calories . . .
I understand what your saying as it's like a lot of experts say you should eat eat enough protein grams to equal your ideal body weight. At 6'4 220 and pretty fit even that's difficult to eat that many. Besides eating fat bombs I also take olive and fish oil daily.
Your results challenge some of what I think I know. But I don't doubt your report. If you can share more: was there a specific keto variant you were following, or was it a generalized DIY plan?
Also did your workout routine change, and did you do other treatments besides the diet?
The keto diet to starve the cancer included IVs of Vit C, alphalepolic acid, and hyperbaric ozygen, which should have worked for me as it has for so many others.
Due to all the medical appointments, I could not do the exercise regime of 3-5 days of 30 minutes. I have been struggling for many months to get back to that previous routine!!
The keto diet was high fat and high protein, with the very minimal of carbs, and I stuck to it. With almost no carbs, I believe I did not get enough calories. Carbs exist for a reason. I did not get enough energy on the keto diet it my guess, although I stuck to it.
Thanks for responding. I'm sorry it didn't do the trick for you.
Most people on keto or carnivore lose weight. I've lost a little, but improved toning. I've gained muscle on my carnivore diet, but only due to exercise. (I never had an exercise routine before, but experienced an energy surge that made me feel better about exercising.) And in my case, no cancer. And I was skinny before, so whatever muscle I have started from ... well, from far below bodybuilder status.
I'd advise not doing multiple treatments at once, so you can directly experience the results/causation of each different variable. Hopefully you can stay away from chemo & radiation. From what I've read they are net negative treatments, always.
Whatever path you take going forward, keep the positive attitude you always seem to have. It will always carry you to a more positive outcome. 🙏
I guess I cannot "blame" the keto diet per se, I just did not get enough calories, and was lean enough that there wasn't enough fat to use for energy, hence muscle loss. I would have had to eat whale blubber or drink olive oil to get enough energy, without carbs!!
Carbs exist for energy. I never expected my muscles to be sacrificed for energy due to lack of carbs! Far from it, I stuck to that low carb routine to starve the cancer. Not to starve me!
But it starved me of my very muscles! That is the reason for this post as a warning.
I am glad your carnivore diet enables you to exercise and gain muscle. I hope my renewed emphasis on protein will do the same for me.
NO chemo, never! I may be stuck with radiation b/c nothing else has worked . . . : (
I did atkins a while ago (had a whole slew of issues with it but thats not important) and one of the things they said was NOT to have high protein because your body can turn protein into glucose (hence blood sugar). I remember chicken/poultry were frowned upon due to the low fat/high calorie content.
Also, Dr. Thomas Seyfried (I believe) talks about glutamine. You can find him on youtube. He does a keto/carnivore-esque type diet to starve the glucose, and he starves the glutamine (but not too low because your brain still needs it).
Tucker Carlson did an interview with a Dr. a few months back about low-grade chemo and other things to kill cancer.
Don’t know if you tried fasting, but Dr. Eric Berg (youtube) talks a lot about fasting as well.
One time a while ago, I read that a lot of athletes in China were taking Cordyceps, the fungus/mushroom, to help deliver oxygen to the body, which had potent anti-cancer potential.
Also garlic. Hes a little vegan-y but Dr. Gregor (www.nutritionfacts.org) has some cancer stuff on there.
Depending on the type of cancer, many cancer cells can live not only on sugar, but also on glutamine.
This is a recent discovery by Thomas Seyfried, which fills in the gap of knowledge that Otto Warburg did not know about 100 years ago.
Glutamine is in many foods that would appear on a typical keto diet.
So, it was likely the glutamine in the meat or other foods that allowed the cancer cells to survive, even if there are no carbs in the diet.
Seyfried specifically uses glutamine blocker drugs, along with a keto diet, to attack cancer from both sides -- no carbs, and also no uptake of gluatmine.
By doing this, he and his associates have cured cancer in animals and humans.
According to a leading endocrinologist Dr. Jason Fung, author of "Complete Guide To Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting," a low-carb / carb-free diet won't cannibalize muscle until the person's BFI is 3%.
Three percent. Elite athletes are at 3%. The rest of us? So long as your doctor's cool w/ it, keto and fast to your heart's content.
Fat bombs are typically made with ingredients such as nut butters or coconut oil, cocoa powder, cream cheese or avocado, and little to no sugar.
Fat bombs sustain you and deliver the right kind of fat that aids in ketosis. Fat bombs are usually about 90 percent (healthy) fat and can be a great supplement for you (in moderation). The high fat content will stabilize your appetite, and ingredients like coconut oil and grass fed butter have health benefits.
most keto experts recommend you don't eat more than two or three keto fat bombs daily because you can eat too much fat on the diet (aim for getting 70 to 80 percent of your daily calories from fat, according to Harvard Health).
I haven't been "ripped" for a long time, but the muscle I built forty years ago has been there for my strength, well-being, and appearance all this time! For that to disappear in 6 months on keto diet has been SHOCKING!
Fortunately, I know how to do strength-training exercises, and I am champing at the bit to get back to it!
The thing is, when I was building that muscle, I really did not eat a lot. !?! At least I did not think about it, did not count protein or carbs, I just ate as my body prompted me! OH for those days!
Go to You Tube and search How to make Fat Bombs and you will be amazed. I lot of people take this because often they don't have enough fat in their diet. At least that is my understanding.
Coming off a recent keto experience of 7 weeks.
Felt great mentally but my heart rate began to change. My resting heart rate increased about 5 bpm and would have high HR (>100 bmp) when going up stairs. As soon as I reintroduced carbs and natural sugar, I returned to my baseline levels for RHR.
Right now, I'm on the Rice Diet. It was formulated by Dr. Walter Kempner at Duke in 1939. He put people on this diet and it cured Type 2 diabetes, lowered blood pressure, helped with heart issues, obesity, kidney failure, migraines, etc. He had a clinic called The Rice House on Duke's campus and thousands of people were helped. In 2003, though Duke shut it down. Now, if you search the diet, a lot of the searches call it a fad diet. The first steps are pretty strict. Basically rice and fruit - not a problem for me because I like both.
The reason I started it is because of arthritis and cluster headaches.
If anyone is interested, here's a link:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/education/information-all/walter-kempner-md-founder-of-the-rice-diet/
I was a body builder for decades, with lots of lean visible muscle. Six months on the keto diet took away my quads, hamstrings, and glutes, substituting loose skin.
The cancer did not care; like the healthy cells, it used oxygen metabolism.
In the mean time, I have to develop my strong musculature all over again!
I never expected this! The keto diet was supposed to kill cancer cells which rely upon sugar. Instead, it robbed me of my muscles of decades of exercise.
WUT??
Strange. Keto did wonders for me.
So sorry to hear that, ArmyLady -- about the cancer and the results of Keto for you. Best wishes for a fast recovery in both cases.
Thank you! But this post was not about me but to provide info for others to use! Discernment is very hard. I stuck to the keto diet completely! But in the end it ate up my wonderful muscles!!
OK I have to go back into muscle building! And enough carbs for energy! The cancer be damned, I can't do anything about it, except to live my life.
I lost fat too, but I was lean going into it. So it went for my muscles, which I did not expect.
My protocol included fenben and lots of supplements to enhance that function. Everything including the kitchen sink! HA!
I KNEW that the cancer protocol was going to work!! It made total sense! Until it didn't. So I have to conclude my slow-growing tumor is still using aerobic oxygen metabolism. Hence able to survive along with the healthy cells that are able to use fat and protein for energy in the absence of sugar.
The protocols seem designed to starve the anerobic cancers which survive on fermentation of sugar and cannot use the fats and proteins for energy.
But I did not expect the treatment, even if it did not work, which I did NOT expect, to eat up my very muscles!
Thanks for your concern and info tweety!
I underwent a complete cancer protocol from my integrative doc. It included fenben but not ivermectin. He has had success and I am the only one he recalls with stage 1 cancer that it did not work for.
Appreciate your sharing. I follow a Dr. Courtney Hunt and she harps on the difference b/n a keto or carnivore “diet” and ketosis as a metabolic state. Eating for your genetics, fasting fairly regularly, HIIT, and feasting. I am learning and trying things slowly as I pick them up from her. Best wishes for you to make it back to thriving, Fren!
Edit: link to a free book by Dr. Hunt: https://www.courtneyhuntmd.com/your-spark-is-light
Thanks! For now, I plan to recover as I can, the huge loss of muscle!
I am impressed. Get well soon. 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you! I feel I will be well, but in the mean time I have to live my life as is intended!
I thought the Keto Diet used fat and Carbos for energy and not muscle? So this isn't correct? And was it because the Keto, too much protein or lack of enough calories?
I think not enough calories and not enough body fat to be consumed for energy, hence using muscle. But a weight loss diet can do the same thing. I am coming to think, that a too low carb diet does not provide enough energy for the body. I followed the low carb keto diet to the nth degree. It ended using ME up! Carbs exist for a reason, for energy. Maybe a keto diet with enough calories would work, but as I remarked, I would have had to eat whale blubber or drink olive oil to get enough calories . . .
I understand what your saying as it's like a lot of experts say you should eat eat enough protein grams to equal your ideal body weight. At 6'4 220 and pretty fit even that's difficult to eat that many. Besides eating fat bombs I also take olive and fish oil daily.
I take Omega-3 oil.
Same here
Or maybe not enough far so it started using you muscle if you didn't eat enough fat? Is that why a lot make and use fat bombs?
Your results challenge some of what I think I know. But I don't doubt your report. If you can share more: was there a specific keto variant you were following, or was it a generalized DIY plan?
Also did your workout routine change, and did you do other treatments besides the diet?
Wishing you the best on both counts.
The keto diet to starve the cancer included IVs of Vit C, alphalepolic acid, and hyperbaric ozygen, which should have worked for me as it has for so many others.
Due to all the medical appointments, I could not do the exercise regime of 3-5 days of 30 minutes. I have been struggling for many months to get back to that previous routine!!
The keto diet was high fat and high protein, with the very minimal of carbs, and I stuck to it. With almost no carbs, I believe I did not get enough calories. Carbs exist for a reason. I did not get enough energy on the keto diet it my guess, although I stuck to it.
Thanks for responding. I'm sorry it didn't do the trick for you.
Most people on keto or carnivore lose weight. I've lost a little, but improved toning. I've gained muscle on my carnivore diet, but only due to exercise. (I never had an exercise routine before, but experienced an energy surge that made me feel better about exercising.) And in my case, no cancer. And I was skinny before, so whatever muscle I have started from ... well, from far below bodybuilder status.
I'd advise not doing multiple treatments at once, so you can directly experience the results/causation of each different variable. Hopefully you can stay away from chemo & radiation. From what I've read they are net negative treatments, always.
Whatever path you take going forward, keep the positive attitude you always seem to have. It will always carry you to a more positive outcome. 🙏
I guess I cannot "blame" the keto diet per se, I just did not get enough calories, and was lean enough that there wasn't enough fat to use for energy, hence muscle loss. I would have had to eat whale blubber or drink olive oil to get enough energy, without carbs!!
Carbs exist for energy. I never expected my muscles to be sacrificed for energy due to lack of carbs! Far from it, I stuck to that low carb routine to starve the cancer. Not to starve me!
But it starved me of my very muscles! That is the reason for this post as a warning.
I am glad your carnivore diet enables you to exercise and gain muscle. I hope my renewed emphasis on protein will do the same for me.
NO chemo, never! I may be stuck with radiation b/c nothing else has worked . . . : (
Thanks fren!!
Why not butter and beef tallow instead of whale blubber and olive oil?
Depending on your height and goal weight, a pound of ground beef and 4-6 eggs could be all the calories you need.
What was your calorie target and how much were you missing it by?
Well I use butter, cook eggs in bacon grease etc.
The calorie target in the plan was semi-fasting. But I have to conclude that was not enough so I was catabolizing muscle.
Plus the no carbs did not allow fruits and most vegetables, so not healthy in the long run anyway?
I did atkins a while ago (had a whole slew of issues with it but thats not important) and one of the things they said was NOT to have high protein because your body can turn protein into glucose (hence blood sugar). I remember chicken/poultry were frowned upon due to the low fat/high calorie content.
Also, Dr. Thomas Seyfried (I believe) talks about glutamine. You can find him on youtube. He does a keto/carnivore-esque type diet to starve the glucose, and he starves the glutamine (but not too low because your brain still needs it).
Tucker Carlson did an interview with a Dr. a few months back about low-grade chemo and other things to kill cancer.
Don’t know if you tried fasting, but Dr. Eric Berg (youtube) talks a lot about fasting as well.
One time a while ago, I read that a lot of athletes in China were taking Cordyceps, the fungus/mushroom, to help deliver oxygen to the body, which had potent anti-cancer potential.
Also garlic. Hes a little vegan-y but Dr. Gregor (www.nutritionfacts.org) has some cancer stuff on there.
Dr. Mark Hyman as well. Youtube.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Yes I saw the Seyfried information. My protocol had fenben etc.
Depending on the type of cancer, many cancer cells can live not only on sugar, but also on glutamine.
This is a recent discovery by Thomas Seyfried, which fills in the gap of knowledge that Otto Warburg did not know about 100 years ago.
Glutamine is in many foods that would appear on a typical keto diet.
So, it was likely the glutamine in the meat or other foods that allowed the cancer cells to survive, even if there are no carbs in the diet.
Seyfried specifically uses glutamine blocker drugs, along with a keto diet, to attack cancer from both sides -- no carbs, and also no uptake of gluatmine.
By doing this, he and his associates have cured cancer in animals and humans.
You might look him up.
Yes I read about Seyfied. My cancer protocol included fenben and other things he talks about.
Thanks fren.
Not buying it. WebMD is not a good source. https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ff452058d59b7f49&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS791US791&hl=en-US&sxsrf=AE3TifMtnXmIWu16KsVHKyutFXwhWoCauA:1752181747337&udm=2&fbs=AIIjpHz30rPMyW-0vSP0k1VTNmO_w7HWzdssfT8--zJ8qNsl8L7-5q__n7BwgNeB-qyHnROq4kq5QtH1DPgAP9eGH3ypMYyuYFCKtP9kquUX97aRnYHw0X_jwrDwnPZ3R3dSsfEaat41HsBk16-jizoupxEFME3dHTuOYnZfUVQ0km1fxB7SFsnVjSizzvLkLH6H9D_2SGB6zAc6kbsg80sKkgrp5OEkRqN1aAo4eJrI2zj86Dt3tFs&q=keto+body+builders&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKu4bVmbOOAxVDj4kEHUfPM5sQtKgLegQIFBAB&biw=1024&bih=648&dpr=2
According to a leading endocrinologist Dr. Jason Fung, author of "Complete Guide To Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting," a low-carb / carb-free diet won't cannibalize muscle until the person's BFI is 3%.
Three percent. Elite athletes are at 3%. The rest of us? So long as your doctor's cool w/ it, keto and fast to your heart's content.
I appreciate your info, but the loose skin on my thighs and glutes testify to a massive loss of muscle! : (
Maybe you didn't have or eat enough fat? We've used fat bombs to help with getting enough fat into our systems.
I relished bacon and prime rib! I relished the fat and the fatty taste! But apparently it was not enough. I do not know what fat bombs are . . .
I didn't either.
The recipes are endless and they all sound delicious! 😋
Thanks! Wish I had known about this!
Well, now we both know about them. 🙂
I might make some even though I'm not on keto as most seem gluten free and sound like a tasty, nutritious snack.
Best of luck to you going forward. Doing it now is easier as it gets harder to do as one ages.
You are so right!
I haven't been "ripped" for a long time, but the muscle I built forty years ago has been there for my strength, well-being, and appearance all this time! For that to disappear in 6 months on keto diet has been SHOCKING!
Fortunately, I know how to do strength-training exercises, and I am champing at the bit to get back to it!
The thing is, when I was building that muscle, I really did not eat a lot. !?! At least I did not think about it, did not count protein or carbs, I just ate as my body prompted me! OH for those days!
Thanks fren, may God Bless us one and all!
Go to You Tube and search How to make Fat Bombs and you will be amazed. I lot of people take this because often they don't have enough fat in their diet. At least that is my understanding.
Coming off a recent keto experience of 7 weeks. Felt great mentally but my heart rate began to change. My resting heart rate increased about 5 bpm and would have high HR (>100 bmp) when going up stairs. As soon as I reintroduced carbs and natural sugar, I returned to my baseline levels for RHR.
Thanks for sharing. Carbs are really important for energy as it turns out!
Right now, I'm on the Rice Diet. It was formulated by Dr. Walter Kempner at Duke in 1939. He put people on this diet and it cured Type 2 diabetes, lowered blood pressure, helped with heart issues, obesity, kidney failure, migraines, etc. He had a clinic called The Rice House on Duke's campus and thousands of people were helped. In 2003, though Duke shut it down. Now, if you search the diet, a lot of the searches call it a fad diet. The first steps are pretty strict. Basically rice and fruit - not a problem for me because I like both. The reason I started it is because of arthritis and cluster headaches. If anyone is interested, here's a link: https://www.drmcdougall.com/education/information-all/walter-kempner-md-founder-of-the-rice-diet/
Get your body chemistry neutral.
OK, how?
Familiar with the Joe Tippins protocol?
Yes, my protocol is similar, and I trusted it completely. I conclude the difference, that my slow-growing tumor is still using oxygen metabolism.