Salvation is a gift of the Holy Spirit of God by his Grace not by water immersion. His will not our will.
His sovereignty not ours.
Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven. - Charles Spurgeon
Jesus speaks
Acts 1
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Peter speaks
Acts 11
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
The belief that Baptism does NOT believe wasn't invented until the late 16th century.
Mark 16:16 – “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
This is one of the clearest statements linking belief, baptism, and salvation.
Acts 2:38 – “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Here baptism is directly tied to forgiveness of sins and receiving the Spirit.
Acts 22:16 – “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.”
Baptism is presented as the moment sins are washed away.
Romans 6:3–4 – “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead … we too might walk in newness of life.”
Paul describes baptism as the way believers share in Christ’s death and resurrection.
Galatians 3:27 – “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
Baptism is the moment of “putting on” Christ.
1 Peter 3:21 – “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
Peter explicitly says “baptism … now saves you,” clarifying that its power comes through Christ’s resurrection.
So what about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He was not baptized but Jesus told him he would be with Him in Paradise. Baptism does not save. It is an act of obedience showing your inward change. Only asking Jesus into your heart and life saves you. John 14:6: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
No mention of baptism.
Exactly; baptism is a profession of faith and should accompany a believer in their walk but is not always necessary for salvation. The thief on the Cross is a an example of this.
The only way to the Father (as you covered in John 14:6) is though Christ and His grace alone is enough.
Of course, we should produce fruit when we begin walking with Him but works do not save; just grace.
God can give mercy. I believe that thief is in heaven.
Also there was 21 Coptic Christians Martyred by ISIS. One of them wasn’t even Christian. ISIS offered to let him go if he converted to Islam but he said no accepted Christ right there and was Martyred with the others. He is in heaven too I bet.
Jesus took the thief with him to paradise who was most assuredly baptized (immersed) with the Holy Spirit at some point in time. Not water.
Not water because that was John the Baptist journey. Water was to prepare the people in that locale for the coming Messiah.
Not for anyone after.
John even said so.
"John 1:33
King James Version
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me,
Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."
The scriptures cited by young patriot above go to heart of the matter. An entire reading and understanding of the New Testament reveals the plan of salvation put forth by the writings of the apostles.
The kingdom of God has come and is NOW. We are living it today. We are not waiting for Jesus to come for a second chance. The kingdom was established on the day of Pentecost when the spirit descended on the apostles gathered in the upper room. They went out and preached the gospel…..the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus….to thousands that day in many languages, and over 3000 believed and were baptized into his death. Baptism is the key to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Note that baptism is symbolic of the death of Jesus (you are DEADin your sins prior to immersion), you are buried with Him (under water you are dead and cannot survive), and are raised to a new life (receiving the Holy Spirit indwelling just as Christ was raised from the dead.) Baptism is deeply rooted in becoming a Christian.
Prior to the beginning of the church on that day at Pentecost, the old Mosaic law was still in effect. Jesus alone lived the law to perfection. The thief on the cross was also under the old law, and baptism into CHRIST was not in effect. John’s baptism was for folks to repent of their sins and announce the coming of the messiah and the new covenant.
Baptism means immersion. Unfortunately most people especially Dispensationals,
Think it means water.
Clearly and crystal clearly after the Day of Pentecost all those who hear the Gospel, believe, are at that moment Baptized ie immersed with the Holy Spirit.
It is God who did that.
NOT WATER
Water never had anything to do with eternal life.
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Oh, look, another baseless attack on dispensationalism that is not founded in any kind of truth... dispensationalists believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit, so if you are going to criticize at least get it right...
I asked AI about your accusation against dispensationalists-
Q: Do dispensationalists believe that true baptism is water or the Holy Spirit?
Dispensationalists hold varying views on the nature of true baptism, with significant differences between mainstream and hyperdispensationalist perspectives. Mainstream dispensationalists generally believe that water baptism is a valid practice for believers today, though they may differ on its theological significance. In contrast, hyperdispensationalists, also known as mid-Acts dispensationalists or members of the Grace Movement, reject water baptism entirely. They argue that the only baptism applicable to the current "dispensation of the Grace of God" is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at the moment of salvation when the believer is made part of the "Body of Christ". This spiritual baptism is seen as an invisible, divine act performed by the Holy Spirit, not a physical ritual with water. According to this view, water baptism was a Jewish rite that was not part of the new covenant revealed through Paul, and thus is not required for believers today. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is considered the sole means by which one is incorporated into the Church, the body of Christ, and is distinct from the baptism with the Holy Spirit that occurred at Pentecost, which was for Israel. Therefore, while some dispensationalists affirm water baptism, the hyperdispensationalist position holds that true baptism is exclusively the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Q: Do the ones that affirm water baptism reject Holy Spirit baptism?
No, dispensationalists who affirm water baptism do not reject Holy Spirit baptism. Mainstream dispensationalists believe in both practices but distinguish their purposes: water baptism is seen as an outward ordinance symbolizing a believer's identification with Christ, while baptism by the Holy Spirit is understood as the spiritual act by which God places believers into the Body of Christ at the moment of salvation. These are viewed as complementary, not mutually exclusive.
Q: Do the ones who affirm water baptism teach that it is required for salvation?
No, dispensationalists who affirm water baptism do not teach that it is required for salvation. Mainstream dispensationalists view water baptism as an important act of obedience and public identification with Christ, but they clearly distinguish it from salvation, which they believe is by grace through faith alone. Water baptism is seen as the first step of discipleship and a testimony of one's faith, not a means to obtain salvation. Passages like Mark 16 are interpreted to emphasize belief as the sole condition for salvation, with baptism as a subsequent practice. This position is consistent across traditional dispensational theology.
Q: How would you evaluate the statement, "Baptism means immersion. Unfortunately most people especially Dispensationals, Think it means water," in light of these facts?
The statement "Baptism means immersion. Unfortunately most people especially Dispensationals, Think it means water," is inaccurate and misleading.
Baptism and Immersion: While the Greek word baptizō (βαπτίζω) primarily means "to immerse, dip, or plunge," the term "baptism" in Christian theology refers to a rite involving water—whether by immersion, pouring, or sprinkling. The mode may vary, but the element (water) is central in most biblical and historical understandings.
Dispensationalists and Water Baptism: The claim that dispensationalists think baptism "means water" in a simplistic or incorrect way is false. Mainstream dispensationalists affirm water baptism as a commanded ordinance for believers, viewing it as an act of obedience and public identification with Christ. They do not deny the meaning of the word "baptism" as immersion; many practice immersion specifically because of its symbolic significance.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit: Dispensationalists also affirm the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at salvation and unites believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12). This is distinct from water baptism but not seen as a redefinition of the term—rather, as a spiritual reality symbolized, not replaced, by the water rite.
Hyperdispensationalist Exception: A minority view, hyperdispensationalism, rejects water baptism entirely, teaching that only Spirit baptism is relevant today. But this is not representative of mainstream dispensational theology.
In short, the statement misrepresents both the linguistic facts and dispensational belief. Baptism involves water, and most dispensationalists rightly understand it as an immersion-based ordinance symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection with Christ.
There are groups that teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation, such as Churches of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, Lutherans, however dispensationalists are not part of that group.
Mainstream dispensational theology clearly affirms that salvation is by grace through faith alone, apart from any works, including water baptism. While they view water baptism as an important act of obedience and public identification with Christ, it is not considered necessary for salvation. This is consistently taught across dispensational sources, which emphasize that the baptism which unites a believer to Christ is the Spirit's baptism at the moment of faith, not some water ritual.
I have addressed your misrepresentation of the dispensational boogeyman, as for the rest of your comment, I wholeheartedly agree. Water has nothing to do with eternal life. Baptismal regeneration is a works based theology that turns baptism into another gospel, replacing belief in Christ with works for salvation, and it is right to call it out, but when you are calling it out it should be against those who actually teach such heresy.
The main beef I have with Dispensation denominations is Zionism, and not recognizing or acknowledging that God is sovereign when it comes to the salvation process.
They outright reject predestination or election of God's chosen.
They always use phrases like we led this many people to Christ or this person got saved this day, as though that person has anything to do with their own salvation.
It always begins with the sinner's prayer then a week or so of taking water baptism so seriously that you have to prepare for it,
Then the act of going through water immersion, then pledging membership to the church and but of course tithing.
Then they are pronounced "saved".
And their basis of Zionism comes off of the Schofield Bible commentary and John Darby AKA the founder of the rapture.
Then you have their eschatology or end-time prophecy and in this their arrogance that they know exactly when the Lord is going to return all based off a bunch of frauds in the Middle East
and their timeline of becoming a so-called Nation when they're not even Israelites.
I am not judging whether they are saved or not just their doctrine is screwed up and causes a lot of problems.
Quit my day job? But Walmart is the best I can do!
The book of ACTS is a historical rendering of the Apostles and the early church.
It is not doctrinal.
Peter said to paraphrase, baptism now saves us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (water) but of an answer of a good conscience toward God. (Holy Spirit.)
Water is great for cleaning us after a shower or bath, for cooling ourselves in a pool but has nothing to do with salvation.
"believe in thine heart" ONLY Jesus can see the HEART of a Believer, as He did with the thief on the Cross, who received the Gift of Salvation.When the thief heard Jesus say, while next to Jesus "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", that God was ready to forgive him, as He was ready to forgive the man that drove the spikes into His hands and feet. And the thief confessed with his mouth he wanted Jesus to forgive him.
Edit: the Bible does not tell us if he was Baptize, but Jesus knew, and at that moment received Grace, other wise he would not have said "Today you will be with me in paradise"
Salvation is a gift of the Holy Spirit of God by his Grace not by water immersion. His will not our will. His sovereignty not ours.
Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven. - Charles Spurgeon
Jesus speaks Acts 1
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Peter speaks
Acts 11
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
The belief that Baptism does NOT believe wasn't invented until the late 16th century.
Mark 16:16 – “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” This is one of the clearest statements linking belief, baptism, and salvation.
Acts 2:38 – “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Here baptism is directly tied to forgiveness of sins and receiving the Spirit.
Acts 22:16 – “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.” Baptism is presented as the moment sins are washed away.
Romans 6:3–4 – “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead … we too might walk in newness of life.” Paul describes baptism as the way believers share in Christ’s death and resurrection.
Galatians 3:27 – “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” Baptism is the moment of “putting on” Christ.
1 Peter 3:21 – “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” Peter explicitly says “baptism … now saves you,” clarifying that its power comes through Christ’s resurrection.
So what about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He was not baptized but Jesus told him he would be with Him in Paradise. Baptism does not save. It is an act of obedience showing your inward change. Only asking Jesus into your heart and life saves you. John 14:6: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. No mention of baptism.
God is not bound by anything. He gives mercy to who he wishes .
Although it was a unique situation. It was before pentecost and he had no way of doing anything more.
Gives mercy on those He has Elect, covered with the BLOOD of Jesus.
Will God contradict His own word?
Exactly; baptism is a profession of faith and should accompany a believer in their walk but is not always necessary for salvation. The thief on the Cross is a an example of this.
The only way to the Father (as you covered in John 14:6) is though Christ and His grace alone is enough.
Of course, we should produce fruit when we begin walking with Him but works do not save; just grace.
God can give mercy. I believe that thief is in heaven.
Also there was 21 Coptic Christians Martyred by ISIS. One of them wasn’t even Christian. ISIS offered to let him go if he converted to Islam but he said no accepted Christ right there and was Martyred with the others. He is in heaven too I bet.
You bring up an important point.
Jesus took the thief with him to paradise who was most assuredly baptized (immersed) with the Holy Spirit at some point in time. Not water.
Not water because that was John the Baptist journey. Water was to prepare the people in that locale for the coming Messiah. Not for anyone after.
John even said so.
"John 1:33 King James Version 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."
The scriptures cited by young patriot above go to heart of the matter. An entire reading and understanding of the New Testament reveals the plan of salvation put forth by the writings of the apostles.
The kingdom of God has come and is NOW. We are living it today. We are not waiting for Jesus to come for a second chance. The kingdom was established on the day of Pentecost when the spirit descended on the apostles gathered in the upper room. They went out and preached the gospel…..the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus….to thousands that day in many languages, and over 3000 believed and were baptized into his death. Baptism is the key to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Note that baptism is symbolic of the death of Jesus (you are DEADin your sins prior to immersion), you are buried with Him (under water you are dead and cannot survive), and are raised to a new life (receiving the Holy Spirit indwelling just as Christ was raised from the dead.) Baptism is deeply rooted in becoming a Christian.
Prior to the beginning of the church on that day at Pentecost, the old Mosaic law was still in effect. Jesus alone lived the law to perfection. The thief on the cross was also under the old law, and baptism into CHRIST was not in effect. John’s baptism was for folks to repent of their sins and announce the coming of the messiah and the new covenant.
Baptism means immersion. Unfortunately most people especially Dispensationals,
Think it means water.
Clearly and crystal clearly after the Day of Pentecost all those who hear the Gospel, believe, are at that moment Baptized ie immersed with the Holy Spirit.
It is God who did that.
NOT WATER
Water never had anything to do with eternal life.
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Oh, look, another baseless attack on dispensationalism that is not founded in any kind of truth... dispensationalists believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit, so if you are going to criticize at least get it right...
I asked AI about your accusation against dispensationalists-
Q: Do dispensationalists believe that true baptism is water or the Holy Spirit?
Dispensationalists hold varying views on the nature of true baptism, with significant differences between mainstream and hyperdispensationalist perspectives. Mainstream dispensationalists generally believe that water baptism is a valid practice for believers today, though they may differ on its theological significance. In contrast, hyperdispensationalists, also known as mid-Acts dispensationalists or members of the Grace Movement, reject water baptism entirely. They argue that the only baptism applicable to the current "dispensation of the Grace of God" is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at the moment of salvation when the believer is made part of the "Body of Christ". This spiritual baptism is seen as an invisible, divine act performed by the Holy Spirit, not a physical ritual with water. According to this view, water baptism was a Jewish rite that was not part of the new covenant revealed through Paul, and thus is not required for believers today. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is considered the sole means by which one is incorporated into the Church, the body of Christ, and is distinct from the baptism with the Holy Spirit that occurred at Pentecost, which was for Israel. Therefore, while some dispensationalists affirm water baptism, the hyperdispensationalist position holds that true baptism is exclusively the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Q: Do the ones that affirm water baptism reject Holy Spirit baptism?
No, dispensationalists who affirm water baptism do not reject Holy Spirit baptism. Mainstream dispensationalists believe in both practices but distinguish their purposes: water baptism is seen as an outward ordinance symbolizing a believer's identification with Christ, while baptism by the Holy Spirit is understood as the spiritual act by which God places believers into the Body of Christ at the moment of salvation. These are viewed as complementary, not mutually exclusive.
Q: Do the ones who affirm water baptism teach that it is required for salvation?
No, dispensationalists who affirm water baptism do not teach that it is required for salvation. Mainstream dispensationalists view water baptism as an important act of obedience and public identification with Christ, but they clearly distinguish it from salvation, which they believe is by grace through faith alone. Water baptism is seen as the first step of discipleship and a testimony of one's faith, not a means to obtain salvation. Passages like Mark 16 are interpreted to emphasize belief as the sole condition for salvation, with baptism as a subsequent practice. This position is consistent across traditional dispensational theology.
Q: How would you evaluate the statement, "Baptism means immersion. Unfortunately most people especially Dispensationals, Think it means water," in light of these facts?
The statement "Baptism means immersion. Unfortunately most people especially Dispensationals, Think it means water," is inaccurate and misleading.
Baptism and Immersion: While the Greek word baptizō (βαπτίζω) primarily means "to immerse, dip, or plunge," the term "baptism" in Christian theology refers to a rite involving water—whether by immersion, pouring, or sprinkling. The mode may vary, but the element (water) is central in most biblical and historical understandings.
Dispensationalists and Water Baptism: The claim that dispensationalists think baptism "means water" in a simplistic or incorrect way is false. Mainstream dispensationalists affirm water baptism as a commanded ordinance for believers, viewing it as an act of obedience and public identification with Christ. They do not deny the meaning of the word "baptism" as immersion; many practice immersion specifically because of its symbolic significance.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit: Dispensationalists also affirm the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at salvation and unites believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12). This is distinct from water baptism but not seen as a redefinition of the term—rather, as a spiritual reality symbolized, not replaced, by the water rite.
Hyperdispensationalist Exception: A minority view, hyperdispensationalism, rejects water baptism entirely, teaching that only Spirit baptism is relevant today. But this is not representative of mainstream dispensational theology.
In short, the statement misrepresents both the linguistic facts and dispensational belief. Baptism involves water, and most dispensationalists rightly understand it as an immersion-based ordinance symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection with Christ.
There are groups that teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation, such as Churches of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, Lutherans, however dispensationalists are not part of that group.
Mainstream dispensational theology clearly affirms that salvation is by grace through faith alone, apart from any works, including water baptism. While they view water baptism as an important act of obedience and public identification with Christ, it is not considered necessary for salvation. This is consistently taught across dispensational sources, which emphasize that the baptism which unites a believer to Christ is the Spirit's baptism at the moment of faith, not some water ritual.
I have addressed your misrepresentation of the dispensational boogeyman, as for the rest of your comment, I wholeheartedly agree. Water has nothing to do with eternal life. Baptismal regeneration is a works based theology that turns baptism into another gospel, replacing belief in Christ with works for salvation, and it is right to call it out, but when you are calling it out it should be against those who actually teach such heresy.
The main beef I have with Dispensation denominations is Zionism, and not recognizing or acknowledging that God is sovereign when it comes to the salvation process.
They outright reject predestination or election of God's chosen.
They always use phrases like we led this many people to Christ or this person got saved this day, as though that person has anything to do with their own salvation.
It always begins with the sinner's prayer then a week or so of taking water baptism so seriously that you have to prepare for it,
Then the act of going through water immersion, then pledging membership to the church and but of course tithing.
Then they are pronounced "saved".
And their basis of Zionism comes off of the Schofield Bible commentary and John Darby AKA the founder of the rapture.
Then you have their eschatology or end-time prophecy and in this their arrogance that they know exactly when the Lord is going to return all based off a bunch of frauds in the Middle East
and their timeline of becoming a so-called Nation when they're not even Israelites.
I am not judging whether they are saved or not just their doctrine is screwed up and causes a lot of problems.
Quit my day job? But Walmart is the best I can do!
The book of ACTS is a historical rendering of the Apostles and the early church. It is not doctrinal.
Peter said to paraphrase, baptism now saves us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (water) but of an answer of a good conscience toward God. (Holy Spirit.)
Water is great for cleaning us after a shower or bath, for cooling ourselves in a pool but has nothing to do with salvation.
If I could unite your two posts - baptism does not grant salvation of itself, but is a sign of salvation and should be observed.
Note also, a baptism in living (I.e. “moving”) water is ideal.
Look… a downvote from the scripturally illiterate.
"believe in thine heart" ONLY Jesus can see the HEART of a Believer, as He did with the thief on the Cross, who received the Gift of Salvation.When the thief heard Jesus say, while next to Jesus "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", that God was ready to forgive him, as He was ready to forgive the man that drove the spikes into His hands and feet. And the thief confessed with his mouth he wanted Jesus to forgive him. Edit: the Bible does not tell us if he was Baptize, but Jesus knew, and at that moment received Grace, other wise he would not have said "Today you will be with me in paradise"