Anyone thinking mary jane should be schedule 1 needs to chill out and spark the owl themselves a bit. I used to be a 24/7 high-functioning pothead. Been a few years now as I've moved to a state where its not legal in, but I'm voting every chance I get to make it legal. My glass hukkah has been dry for way too long. And, yes I could get it easily and know sources... but with children in the house I'm not about to mess with the legal aspect of having it around - but really it should be the same as alcohol in my opinion.
I disagree. I watched my childhood friend go into dope smoking so hard he lost everything. I visited him after graduation from military training. All he wanted to do was get high. I was telling him This is teen bullshit! I was so fucking angry, he did nothing but live off his parents and smoke his life away. All that potential just sitting in his basement getting high. Let me ask you this. Why do you fear your children seeing you get high. Because you know what it will do to them. The incident with my childhood friend , do you think it was an isolated incident. Or has the drug cartels pushed dope into all our communities. It's a weakness, and it makes weak people.
A lot of people waste their lives on the shopping network, video games, social media, wine, etc. Should we ban all those things too just because some people can’t handle it?
People like you would have us all live in a nanny state tyranny just based on one outlier. I’m sick of you telling me how to live my life. As the other commenter said, God gave me dominion over all plants bearing seed. I am a free man and not a slave under the whims of a few. The weaknesses of others are not my chains to bear!
Just like alcoholics... they are the ones that can't handle it... or do it to excess. Pot as well as everything else you listed like social-media and video games are same-same - all ok in moderation.
Right but how is the shopping network hurting random people in society? Same goes to all the things you listed. Can they be hurtful to people and immediate family? Sure. But the same thing can be said about weed except weed can also hurt random people in the society.
Drugs and Alcohol do. That's why they are regulated. I personally thing the punishment for DUI needs to be so extreme the idea of touching keys NEVER enters anyone's mind. How many lives have been lost or ruined because of alcohol? The same is for weed. For every person it helps (legitimately, not some BS stress relief or something), hundreds are probably hurt. Maybe more. The violence that is around it is astoundingly high and people refuse to look at it.
Legalizing it wont change any of it. People will still sell it. People will still mix it with stuff. People will still drive while high and wreck. There is a reason anything that alters mental or physical state is prohibited while operating vehicles and stuff.
Its not a nanny state when someone can be killed at anytime by someone operating a vehicle high/altered state.
As for you saying "God gave me dominion over all plants bearing seed. I am a free man and not a slave under the whims of a few. The weaknesses of others are not my chains to bear!"
Do you think Heroin and Cocaine should be full legal as well? They both comes from plants with seeds? Should we start smoking poison ivy/sumac as well? Why don't we? Because it give obvious signs of damage to the body.
There are several sections in the Bible that clearly state not to get drunk because it alters the mind. Clearly weed alters the mind.
For every person it helps (legitimately, not some BS stress relief or something), hundreds are probably hurt. Maybe more. The violence that is around it is astoundingly high and people refuse to look at it.
BULLSHIT!!
You are just making shit up. Provide factual evidence if you have any proof of this ridiculous claim (which I know you don’t).
Once again, I am not obligated to live like a slave just because you live your life marinating in fear and hatred. The booodbath on the roads that exists solely in your head does not exist in objective reality. Drug warriors like yourself have tried for decades to show that weed makes you drive poorly but they have come up short every time. If anything potheads drive slower and safer and they have less tendency to road rage. If you have any actual evidence please share it but I know you only have delusional rantings.
I’ve been smoking for 30 years so I’ve heard all these lies before. I defy you to show me 1 —just one— person I’ve harmed through my 3 decades of smoking. Spoiler: YOU CAN’T. Because I’ve never injured anyone because of weed.
Quit making up lies and impinging my honor. Oh and here’s a list of conditions that are improved with medical marijuana. Interesting that you want to condemn all the people suffering from these to pain and even death just because of your own personal hangups:
Opioid Alternatives (cannabis helps people get off dangerous drugs)
Migraines
I could list more but that’s a good start. Feel free to start investigating things instead of just reacting and ruminating like a fool. You will find you’ve been lied to your whole life about cannabis. You’d think someone on GA would be more aware of the lies of the deep state. Keeping cannabis in the medical ghettto only serves Big Pharma and their trillion dollar scams. Many of the best medicines are plants or non patented therapeutics. But the mainstream press will never let you know that because they are totally dependent on Big Pharma money. Quit falling for their lies and DYOR!!
Clearly you are beyond emotional about weed and that raises some serious questions alone but you do realize people are actually killed over the stuff every day right? They are under the influence behind the wheel of a car and kill people all the time right? You do know that legal and illegal drug shops are robbed and shot up all the time right? This is what I am talking about.
"I’ve been smoking for 30 years so I’ve heard all these lies before. I defy you to show me 1 —just one— person I’ve harmed through my 3 decades of smoking. Spoiler: YOU CAN’T. Because I’ve never injured anyone because of weed."
As clearly stated in my multiple responses in this thread, I stated that there are some who can use it moderately and be fine and not be the problem person. I on the other hand was referring to the nonsense in these shit hole blue cities where there are people everywhere out in public, driving while high, and doing legal/illegal sales while being victims of violence or causing said violence. I have witnessed ALL of this. Since the decriminalization in the city I work, its use and its problems have been amplified.
If you use it responsibly and never were high and decided to drive and hit someone then I'm not talking specifically about YOU. I am talking about the general public. The responsible and those who are not. Like I also stated, I think DUI penalties need to be severely more harsh.
I have seen fatal accidents from both people drunk and high. Again, that doesn't mean YOU. There are more people than YOU. Since you went straight to the extreme of saying I need to show someone YOU hurt instead of a generalized statement about the public, YOU are showing little emotional control.
"Drug-involved crash fatalities now account for approximately 25% of all crash deaths in California, representing 751 fatalities related to drug-involved driving in 2021. People who drive immediately after using marijuana may increase their risk of getting into a crash by 20 to 35 percent." This is from one of the most legalize everything states out there and they are even admitting the increase.
This isnt even accounting for the violence connected to its sale/use.
Again, that does not mean YOU cant be responsible.
God made plants and saw that they are good. Its on page one of the Bible. You think you and the corrupt government know better than god and the rest of us? God made a mistake that the corrupt government needed to fix? Alcohol ruins lives. Sorry bout your friend, but thats his life and his choices. Television does the same thing you mentioned to way more people. Should we ban TV?
Maybe, but making those things illegal is what both seems to have created a lot of crime, and possibly increased the use. What I know about is some studies of the historical role of alcohol in my country, Finland, where in general during my lifetime there have been a lot of problems with it. Part of that was of course due to the wars, a lot of the veterans came back with traumas, got no help for them, and self-medicated with alcohol, but the behavior - excessive use and the habit of when drinking always drinking in order to get wasted, is actually older than that.
But there are at least two studies which seem to indicate that once upon a time Finns were mostly moderate users. Alcohol was mostly made by home brewing, and was mostly beer, but back then some distilling locally was also done. And especially the harder stuff was mostly used rarely, maybe a drink or two after sauna, a few drinks during any kind of celebrations like weddings, or Christmastime and so on.
Now that was before the Swedish crown - as all that is from those centuries what is now Finland was mostly part of Sweden (hey, we were colonized... not that any group of white folks are allowed to play victims for that these days :D ) - decided to make making alcohol illegal for anybody else but the crown.
But after that, drinking to excess seems to have become more common. When you could get it, legally or illegally, get what you can, and use all of it.
Having something as illegal - the forbidden fruit - in general seems to encourage using it badly when it gets used, as the users are, first of all, mostly going to be those people who like playing some sort of rebels. And also, illegality destroys whatever cultural inhibitions there may have been, or could possibly have developed, if the substance had once been, or had been, legal to use from the beginning.
The big problem is of course that getting BACK to those cultural inhibitions, basically creating them anew from zero, once something has been that "forbidden fruit" for generations can be pretty damn hard. Hopefully not impossible, if it is decided to go that route, but even in the best scenario it is probably going to take a lot of time.
And there are still going to be individuals who use the substance badly, and destroy themselves through it. But from those studies I have seen, it seems possible, even likely, that when those things are legal there may very well be a lot fewer of those people than there are when they are illegal.
And yes, that of course concerns only those substances that aren't so destructive any kind of moderate use is basically impossible because the addiction etc will develop from even a few times of "trying" the stuff.
There are functioning alcoholics as well as functional pot heads. There are also those that fall totally off the wagon with consequences of a life so unmanageable that they need serious help.
We got another invader of a red state trying to change it into a blue state. No thank you! You may be a rare case of a high functioning pot head, but the majority of them are not. When pot is legalized, fatal accidents go up and we all have to suffer the consequences of more idiot drivers.
I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there... I moved to a red state mostly because and my wife and I were done fighting our liberal friends in a blue state and wanted the school system for our kinds (first one just entering preschool at the time) that we have now. As far as marijuana goes your "fatal accidents go up" statement is muted quite a bit when you look at the studies done that show this. Sure, in CO they attribute a 1.4% increase in fatal accidents. This is in the realm of hardly-noticeable. Personally, I no longer drink but maybe a couple beers a year if the right situation comes up and never at home but I never was a drinker really. And when I say 24/7 pothead, I mean it - I would blaze on the way to work - code for hours, take a break, blaze some more, lunch, another break, then after work. I'd then basically sober up for when the wife and I were doing dinner and watching some shows... then I'd spark it back up for some hot WoW action for 4-6 hours then rinse-and-repeat. Then when we had a child this changed to no longer having it at home at all (well, maybe a couple times a week late at night) and then when I moved to TX and its not legal I just stopped... because it isn't addictive the same way alcohol or hard-drugs are. The minute its legal here I'll be buying some and firing it up. But driving... I love driving high... just love it, but I know many of my friends just couldn't do it. To each their own I guess. I say that the driving aspect is something I've talked to many about because there isn't a breathalizer test for the sweat sinsemilla - and if you smoke often enough a blood test could show elevated levels up to 30 days after you stopped - and, well, thats a risk you run and balances itself out nicely I think.
Well said, and I'll add that one big difference between alcohol and cannabis in terms of driving is people either like it (and do it very well) or don't want to Drive and so they don't. They choose not to drive. Whereas, alcohol distorts peoples decision making and confidence which makes them more likely to choose to drive when they absolutely should not be driving. While also impairing motor functions while cannabis generally improves motor functions (hence, the connection to video gaming).
So you're okay with a 1.4% increase in fatal accidents per year as long as you get to get high? So there are about 40,000 car accident deaths in the US per year (because you're advocating for the legality of it throughout the country). Just so I understand your position, you're saying the ability to get high is worth around 400 innocent lives yearly?
Pretty poor argument here - now do guns. Bottom line, I, like many other people, feel that marijuana is better than or at least equal to alcohol and should be treated the same. Are the penalties for causing a fatal accident while drunk stiffer than sober? This should be the same. Now take a look at numbers of non-driving desks related to alcohol compared to weed.
Tell that to someone who has been crashed into by a pothead on a freeway going 60+mph, which I personally have. Miraculously, no one got hurt. My newborn was in the car. It was an act of God, but the skunky driver walked away with no punishment (this was in California). Yes, alcohol is also an issue. I'm not arguing that. But, the more mind-altering substances we allow, the worse everything gets--(particularly accidents and cultural decay) Would you say it's generally a good thing for you and your kids to be subjected to skunky potheads whenever you go out, like one does in ANY city/town where it has been legalized? If you haven't been to a liberal city/town in awhile, I implore you to take your family on an outing to experience firsthand the richness that marijuana has added to these population centers. You have to ask yourself as a father, do the benefits of allowing weed outweigh the negatives? Do I like the world I see around me where weed is heavily apart of the culture day to day?
Guns aren't the same as marijuana because you don't have an inalienable right to weed. The founders intended that we have an obligation to defend ourselves from tyranny which is only possible through bearing arms. I used to be very libertarian and thought along the lines of you with weed, even though I don't smoke it myself. Witnessing the cultural decay over the course of a few decades made me more religious and now I see whenever a society deviates from God's plan you have the kind of world that you have fled from. Altering your cognition is not in accordance with God's plan for us. It's just another vice that separates us from our spiritual connection to a higher power and allowing it widespread harms us overall.
Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. I think we're in a spiritual war. I probably didn't change your mind, but maybe you'll start noticing things about the way the world is and how we got here/where we are going. Thanks for the discussion.
Or some of us are in these blue areas watching clowns do nothing but smoke it all day and commit crimes while under the influence. There is such a twisted layer to society that any drugs only amplify it.
I see this every day. Smoking it around babies, in cars, committing hit and runs. Falling asleep behind the wheel. Robbing and breaking into the cannabis stores that are "legal".
Under moderate use and not the wrong type of person using it, it can be fine and help with medical issue sure. I am not naive to that. But at the same time I am watching the worst of humanity run around all day smoking it everywhere because it was decriminalized. As soon at that happened, problems became worse. Not better.
Just like a good person knows murder and robbery are bad. That person might be able to be "high functioning" but the people who don't.... all weed does is amp it up. I see it every damn day.
Those who say we are stuck in our ways are saying it for a specific reason. Once the genie is out of the bottle there is no putting it back in. Besides specific medical reasons there should be no use of it randomly or wherever you want. Its no different than pain pills being prescribed by a doctor. You don't just willy nilly pop them and give them to kids and stuff. So why is weed different when there are so many examples of it causing harm instead of helping.
The only way to have it work IMO, is to make it exactly like alcohol. 21+, no driving, not in public, etc.... BUT the punishment for breaking it if that goes into effect needs to be so extreme that people don't break the law. Just like DUI and the rest need to be WAYYYYYYY harsher penalties.
In regards to it being a plant and that means its ok?
Heroin comes from a plant.
Cocaine comes from a plant.
Psychedelic Mushrooms are natural, are they ok too?
Poison Ivy/Sumac are plants too. Should we smoke those? People avoid it because of the obvious negative effects on the body.
There are so many things made by God but not all are meant to be used to alter mental and physical states of people.
Until the dindonuffin high as a kite gets into an accident.“
So the dindu wasn’t getting high before the drugs were legalized? The dindu has that much respect for the law that he waited for the drugs to be legalized… before he overindulged and then committed the unlawful action of reckless driving?
The amount of "dindu's" doing it blatantly out in public and driving has 100% increased since the decriminalization of it in my shit hole state. I see it every day at work.
I mean just read this thread... one dude said he has been smoking it for 30 years and went on a tweaker (ironically liberal like tangent) about it higher up in the thread. Another said they moved to a red state for their kid but also stated they smoked for hours every day even while driving and at work and at home. Does any of that seem reasonable to you? If it does and you choose to open that door, heroin and coke are next. They are part of the "plant" argument most in here are quoting.
There is a reason no smoking inside exists even for cigarettes. Yet the pot heads do it all the time. Had to move my grandmother out of her apartment because the jackass had a medical card and the smoke was literally entering her apartment. Its obnoxious and not needed.
What you permit, you promote. Marijuana use has gone up each year with this last year being the highest ever recorded. Well of course it has, it's legal in many states. As more and more states legalize it and it becomes easier to access, use will continue to rise, thus producing more DUIs and fatal car accidents. How is this logic flawed? The stats even back this up.
People should get over the idea that legal = encouraged. If heroin was legalized, would you do it? Alcohol is legal for me but I don’t use it and don’t want to.
No, I personally would not do heroine if it were legalized, but you would definitely see an increase in use. You can take any example of when something becomes legal the usage of it increases: abortions, alcohol consumption during and after prohibition, marijuana usage. The data is available, don't take my word for it, do some research yourself. Of course legalizing something encourages it, just as prohibiting something discourages it's use since there is a consequence for using it!
Weed improves driving performance. This is why cannabis and video games go together so well. Alcohol and most other drugs works completely differently than pot and slow down motor functions.
There’s a difference between being affected and having your rights violated.
Let’s say your neighbor throws an annual Halloween party that is the talk of the town and something you look forward to every year. This year he can’t though, because he has become an alcoholic. You and your social life have been affected for the worse, but your rights haven’t been violated because you never had a right to your neighbor’s party in the first place.
We need to get it clear in our heads that government violence is one of the most dangerous things in the world, and that it should only be applied sparingly and as a response to or prevention of the violation of people’s rights to life, liberty, and property. Having government goons with guns shackle and cage your neighbor for his substance abuse problems is not going to make your life better or your rights more protected.
I see what you're saying, but what if your right to smoke weed infringes on my right to life? Driving under the influence is already against the law, yet crashes and traffic fatalities go up in the states that have legalized it recreationally. What's the answer to this? Steeper penalties for DUIs?
I'm not sure how I'm advocating for anarcho-tyranny because anarchy means no government interreference and I'm advocating for more in this instance. But besides that, one has to ask oneself, does recreational marijuana use improve or hurt society? I believe it has more negatives than positives and that's where I'm coming from. Sure you can say, "whatever I do with my body on my own time should be up to me", but if there truly is an increase in vehicle fatalities after legalization, then is it really just the individual using that is affected?
The problem with your correlation is confounding variables. The legalization of weed began in blue states around the same time they decriminalized everything (or at minimum "de-emphasized enforcement") and shifted to catch-and-release for repeat offenders. Someone caught for DUI might get their license suspended, but with no real consequences for committing crimes, they keep doing it. Fatalities go up.
Ideally we'd lock up dangerous criminals while allowing the law-abiding to enjoy recreational substances safely at home.
If you know my story about my arm being 1/2 torn off for 16 years, tell I started telling doctors I don't want it anymore, cut it off. I didn't take pain medication because they would think I was a drug seeker and not Fix my arm. So I did prescription Cannabis. When The Lord fell on me for those 4 days after I was home from DC Jan. 6th I thought He would talk to me about my cannabis, He did Not say 1 Thing about it, Not a single Word, yes about my arm and why things went the way they did But Not 1 word about my choice in pain management....
All drugs should be legal and sellers should be legally required to be truthful about what they’re selling.
The problem is a demand issue. Instead of attacking users with lawfare, we should be strengthening them spiritually so that they no longer demand hard drugs.
Letting people get high, drive high and basically waste their lives away. Sigh, it weakens us as a people. Hey man what's your problem, you're harshing my buzz. We ain't hurting anyone. Understood, but you are also hurting our society and citizenry. Imagine our enemies drugging our people to make us weak and feckless. YOU, are that person, wasting time, wasting potential, wasting your life. The dopers are just weakening the strength of a nation. I'm not sure what the answer is but I do know having dopers, fuck off and do nothing with their lives and pull down the potential in getting high with buddies isn't the answer.
And I want to add that when I talk about "bad faith actors" I am literally talking about you, Weneverleft. You are engaging in bad faith argument right now.
Every pothead is lying when they say they are high functioning or that they can stop at any time. Utter lies and cope. Talk to your local budtenders and they will tell you that most clients are paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford the addiction.
Lady, everybody is living paycheck to paycheck. Least all of us hardworking folks. We deserve to relax in our healthy way that God intended for us. So, biblegirl, next time you pray, you tell God what a fool you think he was for giving us the GREATEST PLANT IN THE WORLD.
And don't forget about shrooms, ayahuasca, and peyote! Powerful and important plant medicines, and an absolute absurdity that these things are prohibited in any form. I own my body, I decide what goes goes in, not some nosy busybody goody-too-shoes or a commitee or anyone else. Peace
Ps: and kratom!
Especially as I see how poorly criminalization measures are going, I'm more for legalizing all drugs as time goes on
So I agree cannabis shouldn't be schedule 1 but don't see why you'd want to criminalize "hard" drugs like fent
You can overdose on alcohol and many people do
Fent is used in hospitals so banning it prevents people from having medicine (I don't want the gov cutting people off from their pain meds, wasn't wise putting medical freedom in govt hands with covid)
Criminalizing drugs creates a more dangerous black market
A free country allows people to freely buy and sell drugs (18+)
The list goes on
If we want to combat drug abuse, we need a solid economy and culture of sobriety where people aren't gonna wanna turn to legal or illegal drugs; otherwise measures like "bombing narcoterrorists" are ineffective because the demand for drugs in some form still exists (so new drug dealers set up shop once a few get shut down)
Decriminalization without regulation just means you have people free to do whatever they want without any regulatory oversight at all.
That's arguably just as bad as outright prohibition.
You want some regulation in place to keep product clean and uncontaminated and mitigate the effect on society caused by dishonest people who engage in bad faith.
I utterly hate the smell in public. I want the police to fine ppl smoking in public places. That's my stance. Yeah it sucks thats its unreg but hey im all for freedom soooo I say have at it as its the best business practice for true capitalists
I don’t agree with banning opiates. Especially now that the mask is completely off for Tylenol, and we’ve known for decades how damaging NSAIDs are.
I’ve been taking a low dose of oxy for back pain for years with no adverse effects. I would rather put this substance in my body than some chemical cooked up in a lab by chemists and Pharma execs with nefarious motives.
That said I’m not being dismissive of the massive opiate crisis in this country. But I wonder how bad it would be if we got the borders under control.
Anyone thinking mary jane should be schedule 1 needs to chill out and spark the owl themselves a bit. I used to be a 24/7 high-functioning pothead. Been a few years now as I've moved to a state where its not legal in, but I'm voting every chance I get to make it legal. My glass hukkah has been dry for way too long. And, yes I could get it easily and know sources... but with children in the house I'm not about to mess with the legal aspect of having it around - but really it should be the same as alcohol in my opinion.
I disagree. I watched my childhood friend go into dope smoking so hard he lost everything. I visited him after graduation from military training. All he wanted to do was get high. I was telling him This is teen bullshit! I was so fucking angry, he did nothing but live off his parents and smoke his life away. All that potential just sitting in his basement getting high. Let me ask you this. Why do you fear your children seeing you get high. Because you know what it will do to them. The incident with my childhood friend , do you think it was an isolated incident. Or has the drug cartels pushed dope into all our communities. It's a weakness, and it makes weak people.
A lot of people waste their lives on the shopping network, video games, social media, wine, etc. Should we ban all those things too just because some people can’t handle it?
People like you would have us all live in a nanny state tyranny just based on one outlier. I’m sick of you telling me how to live my life. As the other commenter said, God gave me dominion over all plants bearing seed. I am a free man and not a slave under the whims of a few. The weaknesses of others are not my chains to bear!
Just like alcoholics... they are the ones that can't handle it... or do it to excess. Pot as well as everything else you listed like social-media and video games are same-same - all ok in moderation.
Right but how is the shopping network hurting random people in society? Same goes to all the things you listed. Can they be hurtful to people and immediate family? Sure. But the same thing can be said about weed except weed can also hurt random people in the society.
Drugs and Alcohol do. That's why they are regulated. I personally thing the punishment for DUI needs to be so extreme the idea of touching keys NEVER enters anyone's mind. How many lives have been lost or ruined because of alcohol? The same is for weed. For every person it helps (legitimately, not some BS stress relief or something), hundreds are probably hurt. Maybe more. The violence that is around it is astoundingly high and people refuse to look at it.
Legalizing it wont change any of it. People will still sell it. People will still mix it with stuff. People will still drive while high and wreck. There is a reason anything that alters mental or physical state is prohibited while operating vehicles and stuff.
Its not a nanny state when someone can be killed at anytime by someone operating a vehicle high/altered state.
As for you saying "God gave me dominion over all plants bearing seed. I am a free man and not a slave under the whims of a few. The weaknesses of others are not my chains to bear!"
Do you think Heroin and Cocaine should be full legal as well? They both comes from plants with seeds? Should we start smoking poison ivy/sumac as well? Why don't we? Because it give obvious signs of damage to the body.
There are several sections in the Bible that clearly state not to get drunk because it alters the mind. Clearly weed alters the mind.
BULLSHIT!!
You are just making shit up. Provide factual evidence if you have any proof of this ridiculous claim (which I know you don’t).
Once again, I am not obligated to live like a slave just because you live your life marinating in fear and hatred. The booodbath on the roads that exists solely in your head does not exist in objective reality. Drug warriors like yourself have tried for decades to show that weed makes you drive poorly but they have come up short every time. If anything potheads drive slower and safer and they have less tendency to road rage. If you have any actual evidence please share it but I know you only have delusional rantings.
I’ve been smoking for 30 years so I’ve heard all these lies before. I defy you to show me 1 —just one— person I’ve harmed through my 3 decades of smoking. Spoiler: YOU CAN’T. Because I’ve never injured anyone because of weed.
Quit making up lies and impinging my honor. Oh and here’s a list of conditions that are improved with medical marijuana. Interesting that you want to condemn all the people suffering from these to pain and even death just because of your own personal hangups:
Crohns Disease
Seizure Disorders
Cancer‑Related Symptoms (also helps prevent cancer)
Immune Deficiency (e.g., HIV, AIDS, etc.)
Persistent Nausea
Arthritis
Muscle Spasms
Chronic Pain
Insomnia
Neurological Disorders
PTSD
Anxiety
Depression
Mood disorders
Ulcerative colitis
Opioid Alternatives (cannabis helps people get off dangerous drugs)
Migraines
I could list more but that’s a good start. Feel free to start investigating things instead of just reacting and ruminating like a fool. You will find you’ve been lied to your whole life about cannabis. You’d think someone on GA would be more aware of the lies of the deep state. Keeping cannabis in the medical ghettto only serves Big Pharma and their trillion dollar scams. Many of the best medicines are plants or non patented therapeutics. But the mainstream press will never let you know that because they are totally dependent on Big Pharma money. Quit falling for their lies and DYOR!!
Clearly you are beyond emotional about weed and that raises some serious questions alone but you do realize people are actually killed over the stuff every day right? They are under the influence behind the wheel of a car and kill people all the time right? You do know that legal and illegal drug shops are robbed and shot up all the time right? This is what I am talking about.
"I’ve been smoking for 30 years so I’ve heard all these lies before. I defy you to show me 1 —just one— person I’ve harmed through my 3 decades of smoking. Spoiler: YOU CAN’T. Because I’ve never injured anyone because of weed."
As clearly stated in my multiple responses in this thread, I stated that there are some who can use it moderately and be fine and not be the problem person. I on the other hand was referring to the nonsense in these shit hole blue cities where there are people everywhere out in public, driving while high, and doing legal/illegal sales while being victims of violence or causing said violence. I have witnessed ALL of this. Since the decriminalization in the city I work, its use and its problems have been amplified.
If you use it responsibly and never were high and decided to drive and hit someone then I'm not talking specifically about YOU. I am talking about the general public. The responsible and those who are not. Like I also stated, I think DUI penalties need to be severely more harsh.
I have seen fatal accidents from both people drunk and high. Again, that doesn't mean YOU. There are more people than YOU. Since you went straight to the extreme of saying I need to show someone YOU hurt instead of a generalized statement about the public, YOU are showing little emotional control.
"Drug-involved crash fatalities now account for approximately 25% of all crash deaths in California, representing 751 fatalities related to drug-involved driving in 2021. People who drive immediately after using marijuana may increase their risk of getting into a crash by 20 to 35 percent." This is from one of the most legalize everything states out there and they are even admitting the increase.
This isnt even accounting for the violence connected to its sale/use.
Again, that does not mean YOU cant be responsible.
God made plants and saw that they are good. Its on page one of the Bible. You think you and the corrupt government know better than god and the rest of us? God made a mistake that the corrupt government needed to fix? Alcohol ruins lives. Sorry bout your friend, but thats his life and his choices. Television does the same thing you mentioned to way more people. Should we ban TV?
Maybe, but making those things illegal is what both seems to have created a lot of crime, and possibly increased the use. What I know about is some studies of the historical role of alcohol in my country, Finland, where in general during my lifetime there have been a lot of problems with it. Part of that was of course due to the wars, a lot of the veterans came back with traumas, got no help for them, and self-medicated with alcohol, but the behavior - excessive use and the habit of when drinking always drinking in order to get wasted, is actually older than that.
But there are at least two studies which seem to indicate that once upon a time Finns were mostly moderate users. Alcohol was mostly made by home brewing, and was mostly beer, but back then some distilling locally was also done. And especially the harder stuff was mostly used rarely, maybe a drink or two after sauna, a few drinks during any kind of celebrations like weddings, or Christmastime and so on.
Now that was before the Swedish crown - as all that is from those centuries what is now Finland was mostly part of Sweden (hey, we were colonized... not that any group of white folks are allowed to play victims for that these days :D ) - decided to make making alcohol illegal for anybody else but the crown.
But after that, drinking to excess seems to have become more common. When you could get it, legally or illegally, get what you can, and use all of it.
Having something as illegal - the forbidden fruit - in general seems to encourage using it badly when it gets used, as the users are, first of all, mostly going to be those people who like playing some sort of rebels. And also, illegality destroys whatever cultural inhibitions there may have been, or could possibly have developed, if the substance had once been, or had been, legal to use from the beginning.
The big problem is of course that getting BACK to those cultural inhibitions, basically creating them anew from zero, once something has been that "forbidden fruit" for generations can be pretty damn hard. Hopefully not impossible, if it is decided to go that route, but even in the best scenario it is probably going to take a lot of time.
And there are still going to be individuals who use the substance badly, and destroy themselves through it. But from those studies I have seen, it seems possible, even likely, that when those things are legal there may very well be a lot fewer of those people than there are when they are illegal.
And yes, that of course concerns only those substances that aren't so destructive any kind of moderate use is basically impossible because the addiction etc will develop from even a few times of "trying" the stuff.
There are functioning alcoholics as well as functional pot heads. There are also those that fall totally off the wagon with consequences of a life so unmanageable that they need serious help.
We got another invader of a red state trying to change it into a blue state. No thank you! You may be a rare case of a high functioning pot head, but the majority of them are not. When pot is legalized, fatal accidents go up and we all have to suffer the consequences of more idiot drivers.
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6382187928112
I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there... I moved to a red state mostly because and my wife and I were done fighting our liberal friends in a blue state and wanted the school system for our kinds (first one just entering preschool at the time) that we have now. As far as marijuana goes your "fatal accidents go up" statement is muted quite a bit when you look at the studies done that show this. Sure, in CO they attribute a 1.4% increase in fatal accidents. This is in the realm of hardly-noticeable. Personally, I no longer drink but maybe a couple beers a year if the right situation comes up and never at home but I never was a drinker really. And when I say 24/7 pothead, I mean it - I would blaze on the way to work - code for hours, take a break, blaze some more, lunch, another break, then after work. I'd then basically sober up for when the wife and I were doing dinner and watching some shows... then I'd spark it back up for some hot WoW action for 4-6 hours then rinse-and-repeat. Then when we had a child this changed to no longer having it at home at all (well, maybe a couple times a week late at night) and then when I moved to TX and its not legal I just stopped... because it isn't addictive the same way alcohol or hard-drugs are. The minute its legal here I'll be buying some and firing it up. But driving... I love driving high... just love it, but I know many of my friends just couldn't do it. To each their own I guess. I say that the driving aspect is something I've talked to many about because there isn't a breathalizer test for the sweat sinsemilla - and if you smoke often enough a blood test could show elevated levels up to 30 days after you stopped - and, well, thats a risk you run and balances itself out nicely I think.
Well said, and I'll add that one big difference between alcohol and cannabis in terms of driving is people either like it (and do it very well) or don't want to Drive and so they don't. They choose not to drive. Whereas, alcohol distorts peoples decision making and confidence which makes them more likely to choose to drive when they absolutely should not be driving. While also impairing motor functions while cannabis generally improves motor functions (hence, the connection to video gaming).
So you're okay with a 1.4% increase in fatal accidents per year as long as you get to get high? So there are about 40,000 car accident deaths in the US per year (because you're advocating for the legality of it throughout the country). Just so I understand your position, you're saying the ability to get high is worth around 400 innocent lives yearly?
Pretty poor argument here - now do guns. Bottom line, I, like many other people, feel that marijuana is better than or at least equal to alcohol and should be treated the same. Are the penalties for causing a fatal accident while drunk stiffer than sober? This should be the same. Now take a look at numbers of non-driving desks related to alcohol compared to weed.
Tell that to someone who has been crashed into by a pothead on a freeway going 60+mph, which I personally have. Miraculously, no one got hurt. My newborn was in the car. It was an act of God, but the skunky driver walked away with no punishment (this was in California). Yes, alcohol is also an issue. I'm not arguing that. But, the more mind-altering substances we allow, the worse everything gets--(particularly accidents and cultural decay) Would you say it's generally a good thing for you and your kids to be subjected to skunky potheads whenever you go out, like one does in ANY city/town where it has been legalized? If you haven't been to a liberal city/town in awhile, I implore you to take your family on an outing to experience firsthand the richness that marijuana has added to these population centers. You have to ask yourself as a father, do the benefits of allowing weed outweigh the negatives? Do I like the world I see around me where weed is heavily apart of the culture day to day?
Guns aren't the same as marijuana because you don't have an inalienable right to weed. The founders intended that we have an obligation to defend ourselves from tyranny which is only possible through bearing arms. I used to be very libertarian and thought along the lines of you with weed, even though I don't smoke it myself. Witnessing the cultural decay over the course of a few decades made me more religious and now I see whenever a society deviates from God's plan you have the kind of world that you have fled from. Altering your cognition is not in accordance with God's plan for us. It's just another vice that separates us from our spiritual connection to a higher power and allowing it widespread harms us overall.
Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. I think we're in a spiritual war. I probably didn't change your mind, but maybe you'll start noticing things about the way the world is and how we got here/where we are going. Thanks for the discussion.
This meme is very accurate, given the responses in this thread. Conservatives are still so uneducated and way behind about some things...
Or some of us are in these blue areas watching clowns do nothing but smoke it all day and commit crimes while under the influence. There is such a twisted layer to society that any drugs only amplify it.
I see this every day. Smoking it around babies, in cars, committing hit and runs. Falling asleep behind the wheel. Robbing and breaking into the cannabis stores that are "legal".
Under moderate use and not the wrong type of person using it, it can be fine and help with medical issue sure. I am not naive to that. But at the same time I am watching the worst of humanity run around all day smoking it everywhere because it was decriminalized. As soon at that happened, problems became worse. Not better.
Just like a good person knows murder and robbery are bad. That person might be able to be "high functioning" but the people who don't.... all weed does is amp it up. I see it every damn day.
Those who say we are stuck in our ways are saying it for a specific reason. Once the genie is out of the bottle there is no putting it back in. Besides specific medical reasons there should be no use of it randomly or wherever you want. Its no different than pain pills being prescribed by a doctor. You don't just willy nilly pop them and give them to kids and stuff. So why is weed different when there are so many examples of it causing harm instead of helping.
The only way to have it work IMO, is to make it exactly like alcohol. 21+, no driving, not in public, etc.... BUT the punishment for breaking it if that goes into effect needs to be so extreme that people don't break the law. Just like DUI and the rest need to be WAYYYYYYY harsher penalties.
I think God would strongly disagree.
In regards to it being a plant and that means its ok?
Heroin comes from a plant. Cocaine comes from a plant. Psychedelic Mushrooms are natural, are they ok too? Poison Ivy/Sumac are plants too. Should we smoke those? People avoid it because of the obvious negative effects on the body.
There are so many things made by God but not all are meant to be used to alter mental and physical states of people.
Whatever you want to do on your time is fine with me I don’t care as long as it doesn’t impact me I have no problems with what is done.
Until the dindonuffin high as a kite gets into an accident. Now your still ok with an empty child's bedroom.
Reckless driving is already illegal.
Yes, but legalization of more drugs causes more reckless driving.
So the dindu wasn’t getting high before the drugs were legalized? The dindu has that much respect for the law that he waited for the drugs to be legalized… before he overindulged and then committed the unlawful action of reckless driving?
Some flaws in your logic.
The amount of "dindu's" doing it blatantly out in public and driving has 100% increased since the decriminalization of it in my shit hole state. I see it every day at work.
I mean just read this thread... one dude said he has been smoking it for 30 years and went on a tweaker (ironically liberal like tangent) about it higher up in the thread. Another said they moved to a red state for their kid but also stated they smoked for hours every day even while driving and at work and at home. Does any of that seem reasonable to you? If it does and you choose to open that door, heroin and coke are next. They are part of the "plant" argument most in here are quoting.
There is a reason no smoking inside exists even for cigarettes. Yet the pot heads do it all the time. Had to move my grandmother out of her apartment because the jackass had a medical card and the smoke was literally entering her apartment. Its obnoxious and not needed.
What you permit, you promote. Marijuana use has gone up each year with this last year being the highest ever recorded. Well of course it has, it's legal in many states. As more and more states legalize it and it becomes easier to access, use will continue to rise, thus producing more DUIs and fatal car accidents. How is this logic flawed? The stats even back this up.
People should get over the idea that legal = encouraged. If heroin was legalized, would you do it? Alcohol is legal for me but I don’t use it and don’t want to.
I am 13 years clean off opiates and if heroin were legalized tomorrow I would not do it.
I also do not drink.
I smoke cannabis only these days in compliance with state laws in my area. Mostly at home, in my house that I own.
No, I personally would not do heroine if it were legalized, but you would definitely see an increase in use. You can take any example of when something becomes legal the usage of it increases: abortions, alcohol consumption during and after prohibition, marijuana usage. The data is available, don't take my word for it, do some research yourself. Of course legalizing something encourages it, just as prohibiting something discourages it's use since there is a consequence for using it!
Do you think stoners get in accidents more often than non-stoners?
Video game performance destroys the liars in this thread. In sports, Weed is classified as a performance enhancing drug, alcohol is not.
Weed improves driving performance. This is why cannabis and video games go together so well. Alcohol and most other drugs works completely differently than pot and slow down motor functions.
That is an outright lie.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35838426/
Its not a lie. That study was done under Faucis leadership. The NEJM did a study in 1995 that proved my point. It was never publicized.
How convenient?
It was published. You can look it up. I meant it was not widely publicized, as in, not mentioned much on the fake news.
No man is an island. What your neighbors do privately affects all of us.
There’s a difference between being affected and having your rights violated.
Let’s say your neighbor throws an annual Halloween party that is the talk of the town and something you look forward to every year. This year he can’t though, because he has become an alcoholic. You and your social life have been affected for the worse, but your rights haven’t been violated because you never had a right to your neighbor’s party in the first place.
We need to get it clear in our heads that government violence is one of the most dangerous things in the world, and that it should only be applied sparingly and as a response to or prevention of the violation of people’s rights to life, liberty, and property. Having government goons with guns shackle and cage your neighbor for his substance abuse problems is not going to make your life better or your rights more protected.
I see what you're saying, but what if your right to smoke weed infringes on my right to life? Driving under the influence is already against the law, yet crashes and traffic fatalities go up in the states that have legalized it recreationally. What's the answer to this? Steeper penalties for DUIs?
Steeper penalties for bad driving that causes accidents
You are advocating for anarcho-tyranny.
Laws that unfairly punish the responsible because the irresponsible might do something wrong.
I'm not sure how I'm advocating for anarcho-tyranny because anarchy means no government interreference and I'm advocating for more in this instance. But besides that, one has to ask oneself, does recreational marijuana use improve or hurt society? I believe it has more negatives than positives and that's where I'm coming from. Sure you can say, "whatever I do with my body on my own time should be up to me", but if there truly is an increase in vehicle fatalities after legalization, then is it really just the individual using that is affected?
If you are responsible then you would not be the one driving and causing the accident then right?
The problem with your correlation is confounding variables. The legalization of weed began in blue states around the same time they decriminalized everything (or at minimum "de-emphasized enforcement") and shifted to catch-and-release for repeat offenders. Someone caught for DUI might get their license suspended, but with no real consequences for committing crimes, they keep doing it. Fatalities go up.
Ideally we'd lock up dangerous criminals while allowing the law-abiding to enjoy recreational substances safely at home.
If you know my story about my arm being 1/2 torn off for 16 years, tell I started telling doctors I don't want it anymore, cut it off. I didn't take pain medication because they would think I was a drug seeker and not Fix my arm. So I did prescription Cannabis. When The Lord fell on me for those 4 days after I was home from DC Jan. 6th I thought He would talk to me about my cannabis, He did Not say 1 Thing about it, Not a single Word, yes about my arm and why things went the way they did But Not 1 word about my choice in pain management....
All drugs should be legal and sellers should be legally required to be truthful about what they’re selling.
The problem is a demand issue. Instead of attacking users with lawfare, we should be strengthening them spiritually so that they no longer demand hard drugs.
The constitution was written on FUCKING HEMP. Cannabis should not be illegal in the US.
Letting people get high, drive high and basically waste their lives away. Sigh, it weakens us as a people. Hey man what's your problem, you're harshing my buzz. We ain't hurting anyone. Understood, but you are also hurting our society and citizenry. Imagine our enemies drugging our people to make us weak and feckless. YOU, are that person, wasting time, wasting potential, wasting your life. The dopers are just weakening the strength of a nation. I'm not sure what the answer is but I do know having dopers, fuck off and do nothing with their lives and pull down the potential in getting high with buddies isn't the answer.
But everyone smokes, right up to the most successful people around.
Another example of conservatives being braindead.
"You want to legalize drugs? Why do you want to let people drive high?"
Same logic as, "You want to legalize alcohol? Why do you want to let people drive drunk?"
Zero brain cells used making that argument. Nobody thinks you should be allowed to drive high on anything.
Sounds like a strawmans argument. So that's your take. Simple first order thinking.
And I want to add that when I talk about "bad faith actors" I am literally talking about you, Weneverleft. You are engaging in bad faith argument right now.
Every pothead is lying when they say they are high functioning or that they can stop at any time. Utter lies and cope. Talk to your local budtenders and they will tell you that most clients are paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford the addiction.
Thats because weed is helluv expensive! Just like cable tv.
Lady, everybody is living paycheck to paycheck. Least all of us hardworking folks. We deserve to relax in our healthy way that God intended for us. So, biblegirl, next time you pray, you tell God what a fool you think he was for giving us the GREATEST PLANT IN THE WORLD.
And don't forget about shrooms, ayahuasca, and peyote! Powerful and important plant medicines, and an absolute absurdity that these things are prohibited in any form. I own my body, I decide what goes goes in, not some nosy busybody goody-too-shoes or a commitee or anyone else. Peace Ps: and kratom!
Oh and kratom obviously
Especially as I see how poorly criminalization measures are going, I'm more for legalizing all drugs as time goes on
So I agree cannabis shouldn't be schedule 1 but don't see why you'd want to criminalize "hard" drugs like fent
You can overdose on alcohol and many people do
Fent is used in hospitals so banning it prevents people from having medicine (I don't want the gov cutting people off from their pain meds, wasn't wise putting medical freedom in govt hands with covid)
Criminalizing drugs creates a more dangerous black market
A free country allows people to freely buy and sell drugs (18+)
The list goes on
If we want to combat drug abuse, we need a solid economy and culture of sobriety where people aren't gonna wanna turn to legal or illegal drugs; otherwise measures like "bombing narcoterrorists" are ineffective because the demand for drugs in some form still exists (so new drug dealers set up shop once a few get shut down)
I'm all for the cannabis decriminalization but not the legalization.
Decriminalization without regulation just means you have people free to do whatever they want without any regulatory oversight at all.
That's arguably just as bad as outright prohibition.
You want some regulation in place to keep product clean and uncontaminated and mitigate the effect on society caused by dishonest people who engage in bad faith.
I utterly hate the smell in public. I want the police to fine ppl smoking in public places. That's my stance. Yeah it sucks thats its unreg but hey im all for freedom soooo I say have at it as its the best business practice for true capitalists
I don’t agree with banning opiates. Especially now that the mask is completely off for Tylenol, and we’ve known for decades how damaging NSAIDs are. I’ve been taking a low dose of oxy for back pain for years with no adverse effects. I would rather put this substance in my body than some chemical cooked up in a lab by chemists and Pharma execs with nefarious motives.
That said I’m not being dismissive of the massive opiate crisis in this country. But I wonder how bad it would be if we got the borders under control.
Theres a possibility fentanyl can be engineered into a transdermal and/or airborne chemical weapon.
But it already fills a substantial niche, EFFICIENTLY killing off those brain-rotted enough to not be deeply scared of it.
Involuntary or nonconsensual intake of drugs should be illegal of course, but that’s a different issue.
Weed Bad.
I wouldn't care about weed if it didn't smell so fucking awful