The real reason behind this is IT'S NOT JUST THE STAND ALONE FLOCK UNITS!! Truth is every single intersection has cameras. Every single one. They have actually implemented an AI program NATIONWIDE using that AI to track everything folks. The data centers are the key. They need massive amounts of data centers and computing power for the next stage.
China already has this and has perfected the technology. You will be tracked and you will get a social credit score. Your insurance company already tracks you, did you know that? You know that shingle on your roof that flipped up during that storm last year, the one still flipped up? It's logged in their database. They already are aware and are actively changing your policy to reflect that it isn't covered. Every time you speed in your vehicle, they know. Using Google maps?? All the data collected is packaged and THEY can access it, for a small fee. You agreed to it.
Flock Safety's automated license-plate-reader systems are deployed in cities nationwide and capture every vehicle that passes, storing plate numbers, timestamps, and locations. The denial came on privacy grounds despite the requester asking only for records tied to his own vehicle.
the mirror of this subject is one to be amazed at.
for almost a decade now I have been watching many people who live stream or record in public areas around the USA/Canada/England.. albeit the USA one's to me are more entertaining because the police (feeling police) in the other 2 are just completely insane for a very long time when it comes to self control. We as an individual can not be made mad or angry, it is a choice we make individually. Words can not physically harm if you learn that they are only words.
however the people who tout they are the most holy and conservative in much of this arena are very insane too.
Maybe it is because I grew up in a City where it was a tourist city? I learned when I was about 4 years old that there is no expectations of privacy while in public and whoever says you are private while in public no matter if they are the R or the D are retards.
In tourist cities we see how people who do things in public viewed are charged with things like public intoxication and urination and so much. If they are to be private in a public place then those charges would never be correct. All the person would have to claim is it is against his rights to look at him while he is urinating in public and that would cover it.
a license plate is in view of the public anyone can right down your license plate and record it because there is no expectations of privacy while in public and since everyone believes we have to have license plates and it is a law, well it is public record.
This is why there is flock, they are a private contractor and the government is training the sheep that since it is a private company they can do whatever they want but it won't last if we stay a republic.
IF the R sheep would ever understand the 1st Amendment and the 5 parts of it and stop the perpetual victimhood of the gossip news, we might have a chance. The D sheep are to stupid but IF they are told to chant a saying over and over, they will and it gives them a sense of being smart.
In Denmark they added licence plate reading cameras on the Great Belt Bridge to measure the average speed across the 18km distance. Turned out nobody has been charged because the cameras were privately contracted, and police work has to be done by the police. I don't know the exact legal reasons, but it was along these lines.
Don't know the laws in the US, but perhaps a similar legal avenue could be applied?
yes in the democratic city I live in they did this in construction zones. they mailed a bunch of people tickets... everything they come up with is only a totalitarian power grab. It is not legal, they are so stupid.
the construction zone itself is designed as a trap and in reality the people should be sending the government a fine for they way they are doing these construction zones. plus it the guy in front of you is going 80 MPH and you are stuck in a traffic flow of 80 MPH.. guess what? if you are the one that decides to go 45 in the zone... you are going to cause an accident.
So in once they are not stupid.. they want to cripple tax payers at all angles and make them more reliant on the government to tell them how they live.
the news is supposed to report on this nonsense but they have become part of the government.
Time for class action lawsuits. It needs to be formalized that if a company, business, NGO, or other entity has a gov't contract they are by extension part of the government and subject to the restrictions that apply to the gov't.
Or we can simply go full ULEZ on them until they give up.
What these idiots don't realize is that the "citizens" don't quit being citizens asking for their own information. It is incumbent on the government entity to fulfill the request.
I do believe that when it is all said and done, these cameras will be ruled to be an "invasion of privacy" since the person is NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BEING INFORMED THAT THEY ARE PHOTOGRAPHED WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION!!!!!!! AND THAT, DEAR SIR, IS AN INVASION OF PRIVICY!!!!!
I can take a photograph of your car and/or license plate whenever I please; you are out in public, with no expectation of privacy. If you came over and demanded to see it, I would tell you to walk off a dock, and you wouldn't dare to raise a finger against me.
This neurotic obsession with being observed in public needs to end. 200 years ago, you could be easily identified by the breed and coloring of the horse you rode in on. It was too trivial to even think about.
Being observed is not an issue with any of us. Having our daily movement and electronics inside our vehicles recorded and compiled into a database is an issue. These data are then used to track us…and in the future it can be used to prosecute us for who knows what they’ll invent.
The argument against Flock is that a future tyrannical government could use it against you. I think this is an irrational argument. We live in the most filmed public world ever.
All power will have abuses. Everytime someone was abusing Flock and was caught and fired or prosecuted is a success story for checks and balances on power and authority working.
You have register your car and get tags because it is the law and you can be filmed in public without consent. If you want to make a sovereign citizen argument against having to register your car that is different than being filmed in public.
Your phone is bigger privacy invasion than Flock cameras. Cell phone providers keep what tower you are using and will give it to law enforcement with a warrant. And your actual phone is giving all kinds of data to apps which also can go to law enforcement.
The question you have to ask is if a cop is stalking his ex girlfriend with flock and gets fired is it worth tearing down the system that could catch a murderer or a child kidnapper. If the answer is “yes muh privacy!” I wonder how you would feel if someone you loved was a victim of a crime.
I think that trusting a private company interfacing with government is the real problem.
I don't see a way out of the problem though.
Embracing a crowdsourced public recording solution and making 100% of the content publicly available without any censorship or editing is something I would like more because it should be less corruptible.
We would need something like this anyhow to Audit any results from Flock or similar companies.
I think people would hate that even more than they hate Flock though because it would make the creepiness visible.
I think people accept the creepiness that happens with their phones because it usually isn't "directly visible" to them.
The flock situation is similar to form 4473…and the BATFE taking these records from firearm dealers…they say they don’t use them as a registry…but have them and can use them as a registry.
Taking your argument one step further let’s lobby placing cameras in everyone’s homes. Will allow a gov bureaucrat to monitor your eating and drinking habits, make sure you don’t spank your kids, make sure you don’t surf the web all night so you get decent sleep and can work to pay your taxes tomorrow, and on and on.
Flock cameras and all other similar are wrong, anti American, and unconstitutional.
Crime investigation does not require unconstitutional obtrusive monitoring of everyone.
I was born in 1984. I have read the book and seen the film adaptation.
Funny how the civil liberties argument seems to coincide with anarchist. If you are going to always view the government as the enemy then I suppose you support vigilante justice as opposed to law and order. At some point you have to either trust the authorities to be just or simply say I am an outlaw as a guiding principle and deal out justice as I see fit.
You mingle two things, or maybe you were not clear. Daily movement "recorded and compiled" and "being observed" are the same thing. Memory is allowed.
Events inside your vehicle are inside your property and should be protected by the 4th Amendment.
How do you know the data is used to track you? So far as I can tell, that is only a fear, not a fact. Reconstructing your past public actions in the pursuit of a criminal investigation is another matter. You don't like cameras, but you are okay with eyewitnesses? Like your neighbor who has a powerful grudge against you?
If anyone wants to go after you, there is no difficulty dreaming up anything and finding you. Read Solzhenitsyn's works to find out how they go about it, 20th century style. (But tapping one's phone is again a violation of the 4th Amendment.)
General surveillance is not particular to any person. And there is no contact with anyone. If my Ring camera captures all the comings and goings of my neighbor, that is just a function of its field of view. The neighbor cannot accuse me of "stalking" when my camera is functioning automatically 24/7 for anything in its field of view. No such lawsuits have been made, to my understanding, or the whole industry would collapse. So, general surveillance is NOT criminal for an individual.
And, post facto investigation of a suspected crime is NOT "normal circumstances."
General surveillance is not particular to any person.
This is not accurate.
I'm not taking issue with 'all' of your comments -- but this one is wrong. This is not 'general surveillance', as in 'a single camera mounted near a restaurant window to catch someone breaking in'. This is different.
Once an investigation is triggered, this certainly becomes equivalent to 'stalking'. The data is filtered, and all the 'generality' of it fades away. The output becomes 'hundreds of pictures of you, across weeks or months, in dozens of locations, at all times of the day or night'. How is that not equivalent to the output of a stalker?
One response could be that this also is the exact output of 'good police work during an active investigation'. But that raises a question -- Does that mean that all of us are constantly under an active police investigation? Because that's the only justification for collecting all this data.
And just to be clear - I think that the ability to conduct a post-facto investigation of a true criminal is useful -- but perhaps not useful enough to put every citizen under active investigation, 24/7.
I would like to think that all 'investigations' would be for noble purposes, but we know they aren't.
Perhaps the (proper) solution is to actually incarcerate the criminals that are caught instead of constantly releasing them and letting them roam free.
The "investigation" consists of interrogating the data record, which is otherwise in oblivious storage. No one is under "constant" investigation, any more than one would be were a police department to look through the field reports of its patrol officers for a special purpose. This is 19th century stuff.
I have no problem with incarcerating criminals. But I would want to first have the means to detect them, track them down, and apprehend them, which is the real problem to solve.
But, really, what is the harm in being under "investigation"? It doesn't violate any of one's rights. I had to be investigated various times over the years to establish and maintain my security clearances. It was all behind the scenes and essentially invisible. No hassles. Of course, I wasn't committing espionage...
That would be your fallacious interpretation. A brainless camera recording a continuous scene is not an "investigation." No actual investigation is ever "continuous." Even investigators have budgets and dislike waste of time.
I mean, I'm speaking from the life experience of being investigated. Does that count?
But also a nice day to you. Never enough of them...
It can't be a 'fallacious interpretation'. I was responding to your statement 'But, really, what is the harm in being under "investigation"?'
And I'm not quite sure we're 'on the same wavelength'. I understand that until queried, the data is simply 'stored'. But once queried, that data is filtered and the output is the functional equivalent of having been constantly monitored (or investigated, or stalked) for months.
Or do you see a difference in the output of the query?
I'm working on a way to obfuscate these readers. I looked into my state and city laws and doing it the way I am, doesn't break any law or ordinances. It may make them mad, but I've printed out the info and will be carrying it with me for when I get pulled over.. And I'm sure I will. And I will be taking it to court. I'm having to order the products I'm using and I'm sure that when the maker figures out what I'm using it for and if anyone else starts ordering similar products, they will stop selling the items. At least in the form I'm getting them in. I'll post all info when I get them and test my theory.
I read somewhere that a particular type of WD-40 spray will render your license plate unreadable by a license plate reader... is this true? And is it legal? Does that include readers mounted on cop cars? Would that be probable cause for a cop to pull you over if the reader on his car couldn't see your license plate?
If they can't read your license plate, they will make sure it becomes your problem, not their problem. That is the entire purpose of the license plate requirement.
Time to de- flock them.
Here is a good map of the entire country.
https://deflock.org/
The real reason behind this is IT'S NOT JUST THE STAND ALONE FLOCK UNITS!! Truth is every single intersection has cameras. Every single one. They have actually implemented an AI program NATIONWIDE using that AI to track everything folks. The data centers are the key. They need massive amounts of data centers and computing power for the next stage.
China already has this and has perfected the technology. You will be tracked and you will get a social credit score. Your insurance company already tracks you, did you know that? You know that shingle on your roof that flipped up during that storm last year, the one still flipped up? It's logged in their database. They already are aware and are actively changing your policy to reflect that it isn't covered. Every time you speed in your vehicle, they know. Using Google maps?? All the data collected is packaged and THEY can access it, for a small fee. You agreed to it.
Yeah, dystopia happens literally overnight. ✌️ ✌️
Flock Safety's automated license-plate-reader systems are deployed in cities nationwide and capture every vehicle that passes, storing plate numbers, timestamps, and locations. The denial came on privacy grounds despite the requester asking only for records tied to his own vehicle.
SOURCE: https://x.com/ObviousRises/status/2080137879758790944 SOURCE (mirror): https://xcancel.com/ObviousRises/status/2080137879758790944
the mirror of this subject is one to be amazed at.
for almost a decade now I have been watching many people who live stream or record in public areas around the USA/Canada/England.. albeit the USA one's to me are more entertaining because the police (feeling police) in the other 2 are just completely insane for a very long time when it comes to self control. We as an individual can not be made mad or angry, it is a choice we make individually. Words can not physically harm if you learn that they are only words.
however the people who tout they are the most holy and conservative in much of this arena are very insane too.
Maybe it is because I grew up in a City where it was a tourist city? I learned when I was about 4 years old that there is no expectations of privacy while in public and whoever says you are private while in public no matter if they are the R or the D are retards.
In tourist cities we see how people who do things in public viewed are charged with things like public intoxication and urination and so much. If they are to be private in a public place then those charges would never be correct. All the person would have to claim is it is against his rights to look at him while he is urinating in public and that would cover it.
a license plate is in view of the public anyone can right down your license plate and record it because there is no expectations of privacy while in public and since everyone believes we have to have license plates and it is a law, well it is public record.
This is why there is flock, they are a private contractor and the government is training the sheep that since it is a private company they can do whatever they want but it won't last if we stay a republic.
IF the R sheep would ever understand the 1st Amendment and the 5 parts of it and stop the perpetual victimhood of the gossip news, we might have a chance. The D sheep are to stupid but IF they are told to chant a saying over and over, they will and it gives them a sense of being smart.
typos are fun... apologize. most here can still understand. :)
Username checks out. 🍻 ✌️
In Denmark they added licence plate reading cameras on the Great Belt Bridge to measure the average speed across the 18km distance. Turned out nobody has been charged because the cameras were privately contracted, and police work has to be done by the police. I don't know the exact legal reasons, but it was along these lines.
Don't know the laws in the US, but perhaps a similar legal avenue could be applied?
yes in the democratic city I live in they did this in construction zones. they mailed a bunch of people tickets... everything they come up with is only a totalitarian power grab. It is not legal, they are so stupid.
the construction zone itself is designed as a trap and in reality the people should be sending the government a fine for they way they are doing these construction zones. plus it the guy in front of you is going 80 MPH and you are stuck in a traffic flow of 80 MPH.. guess what? if you are the one that decides to go 45 in the zone... you are going to cause an accident.
So in once they are not stupid.. they want to cripple tax payers at all angles and make them more reliant on the government to tell them how they live.
the news is supposed to report on this nonsense but they have become part of the government.
I don't think FOIA requests extend to private company data...
All the hardware is leased.
Access is granted via subscription.
Governments don't own squat...
It's so they can't give you what they don't actually own/possess. By design
This seems to be the latest "clever trick" to avoid public scrutiny like what's Lockheed or Northrup Grumman up to?
Private company - We don't owe you any explanation about anything whatsoever...but keep paying for those sweet govt contracts tho
u/#seriouspopcorn
They didn't deny that the data was a government record, though...
We need to raise enough hell,to get the laws clarified.
Right now its the wild west and they can do what they want.
I hate new laws,but I also hate letting fuktards run wild.
Time for class action lawsuits. It needs to be formalized that if a company, business, NGO, or other entity has a gov't contract they are by extension part of the government and subject to the restrictions that apply to the gov't.
Or we can simply go full ULEZ on them until they give up.
TaQo...THE ONLY THANG I CAN SAY TO THAT IS :
BOOOOOOOM....🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨
What these idiots don't realize is that the "citizens" don't quit being citizens asking for their own information. It is incumbent on the government entity to fulfill the request.
I do believe that when it is all said and done, these cameras will be ruled to be an "invasion of privacy" since the person is NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BEING INFORMED THAT THEY ARE PHOTOGRAPHED WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION!!!!!!! AND THAT, DEAR SIR, IS AN INVASION OF PRIVICY!!!!!
I can take a photograph of your car and/or license plate whenever I please; you are out in public, with no expectation of privacy. If you came over and demanded to see it, I would tell you to walk off a dock, and you wouldn't dare to raise a finger against me.
This neurotic obsession with being observed in public needs to end. 200 years ago, you could be easily identified by the breed and coloring of the horse you rode in on. It was too trivial to even think about.
Being observed is not an issue with any of us. Having our daily movement and electronics inside our vehicles recorded and compiled into a database is an issue. These data are then used to track us…and in the future it can be used to prosecute us for who knows what they’ll invent.
The argument against Flock is that a future tyrannical government could use it against you. I think this is an irrational argument. We live in the most filmed public world ever.
All power will have abuses. Everytime someone was abusing Flock and was caught and fired or prosecuted is a success story for checks and balances on power and authority working.
You have register your car and get tags because it is the law and you can be filmed in public without consent. If you want to make a sovereign citizen argument against having to register your car that is different than being filmed in public.
Your phone is bigger privacy invasion than Flock cameras. Cell phone providers keep what tower you are using and will give it to law enforcement with a warrant. And your actual phone is giving all kinds of data to apps which also can go to law enforcement.
The question you have to ask is if a cop is stalking his ex girlfriend with flock and gets fired is it worth tearing down the system that could catch a murderer or a child kidnapper. If the answer is “yes muh privacy!” I wonder how you would feel if someone you loved was a victim of a crime.
I think that trusting a private company interfacing with government is the real problem.
I don't see a way out of the problem though.
Embracing a crowdsourced public recording solution and making 100% of the content publicly available without any censorship or editing is something I would like more because it should be less corruptible.
We would need something like this anyhow to Audit any results from Flock or similar companies.
I think people would hate that even more than they hate Flock though because it would make the creepiness visible.
I think people accept the creepiness that happens with their phones because it usually isn't "directly visible" to them.
Not "could", "would". I guarantee it.
The flock situation is similar to form 4473…and the BATFE taking these records from firearm dealers…they say they don’t use them as a registry…but have them and can use them as a registry.
Taking your argument one step further let’s lobby placing cameras in everyone’s homes. Will allow a gov bureaucrat to monitor your eating and drinking habits, make sure you don’t spank your kids, make sure you don’t surf the web all night so you get decent sleep and can work to pay your taxes tomorrow, and on and on.
Flock cameras and all other similar are wrong, anti American, and unconstitutional.
Crime investigation does not require unconstitutional obtrusive monitoring of everyone.
Driving on a public street is completely different than having a government camera inside your home.
Do you have a right to shop at Walmart and not be filmed?
Born in 1984 were you? Because it’s certainly not a warning due to the book…as some of us fear…
I was born in 1984. I have read the book and seen the film adaptation.
Funny how the civil liberties argument seems to coincide with anarchist. If you are going to always view the government as the enemy then I suppose you support vigilante justice as opposed to law and order. At some point you have to either trust the authorities to be just or simply say I am an outlaw as a guiding principle and deal out justice as I see fit.
You mingle two things, or maybe you were not clear. Daily movement "recorded and compiled" and "being observed" are the same thing. Memory is allowed.
Events inside your vehicle are inside your property and should be protected by the 4th Amendment.
How do you know the data is used to track you? So far as I can tell, that is only a fear, not a fact. Reconstructing your past public actions in the pursuit of a criminal investigation is another matter. You don't like cameras, but you are okay with eyewitnesses? Like your neighbor who has a powerful grudge against you?
If anyone wants to go after you, there is no difficulty dreaming up anything and finding you. Read Solzhenitsyn's works to find out how they go about it, 20th century style. (But tapping one's phone is again a violation of the 4th Amendment.)
If an individual tracks my movement and logs it for an extended period of time, that is deemed stalking and is a crime.
If it’s criminal for an individual, it should be criminal for the government under normal circumstances.
General surveillance is not particular to any person. And there is no contact with anyone. If my Ring camera captures all the comings and goings of my neighbor, that is just a function of its field of view. The neighbor cannot accuse me of "stalking" when my camera is functioning automatically 24/7 for anything in its field of view. No such lawsuits have been made, to my understanding, or the whole industry would collapse. So, general surveillance is NOT criminal for an individual.
And, post facto investigation of a suspected crime is NOT "normal circumstances."
This is not accurate.
I'm not taking issue with 'all' of your comments -- but this one is wrong. This is not 'general surveillance', as in 'a single camera mounted near a restaurant window to catch someone breaking in'. This is different.
Once an investigation is triggered, this certainly becomes equivalent to 'stalking'. The data is filtered, and all the 'generality' of it fades away. The output becomes 'hundreds of pictures of you, across weeks or months, in dozens of locations, at all times of the day or night'. How is that not equivalent to the output of a stalker?
One response could be that this also is the exact output of 'good police work during an active investigation'. But that raises a question -- Does that mean that all of us are constantly under an active police investigation? Because that's the only justification for collecting all this data.
And just to be clear - I think that the ability to conduct a post-facto investigation of a true criminal is useful -- but perhaps not useful enough to put every citizen under active investigation, 24/7.
I would like to think that all 'investigations' would be for noble purposes, but we know they aren't.
Perhaps the (proper) solution is to actually incarcerate the criminals that are caught instead of constantly releasing them and letting them roam free.
The "investigation" consists of interrogating the data record, which is otherwise in oblivious storage. No one is under "constant" investigation, any more than one would be were a police department to look through the field reports of its patrol officers for a special purpose. This is 19th century stuff.
I have no problem with incarcerating criminals. But I would want to first have the means to detect them, track them down, and apprehend them, which is the real problem to solve.
But, really, what is the harm in being under "investigation"? It doesn't violate any of one's rights. I had to be investigated various times over the years to establish and maintain my security clearances. It was all behind the scenes and essentially invisible. No hassles. Of course, I wasn't committing espionage...
Ok, this was a useful exchange.
You have no problem with every single citizen being under constant investigation.
I do have a problem with that.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Have a nice day.
That would be your fallacious interpretation. A brainless camera recording a continuous scene is not an "investigation." No actual investigation is ever "continuous." Even investigators have budgets and dislike waste of time.
I mean, I'm speaking from the life experience of being investigated. Does that count?
But also a nice day to you. Never enough of them...
It can't be a 'fallacious interpretation'. I was responding to your statement 'But, really, what is the harm in being under "investigation"?'
And I'm not quite sure we're 'on the same wavelength'. I understand that until queried, the data is simply 'stored'. But once queried, that data is filtered and the output is the functional equivalent of having been constantly monitored (or investigated, or stalked) for months.
Or do you see a difference in the output of the query?
Ironic. What about his privacy violation?
I'm working on a way to obfuscate these readers. I looked into my state and city laws and doing it the way I am, doesn't break any law or ordinances. It may make them mad, but I've printed out the info and will be carrying it with me for when I get pulled over.. And I'm sure I will. And I will be taking it to court. I'm having to order the products I'm using and I'm sure that when the maker figures out what I'm using it for and if anyone else starts ordering similar products, they will stop selling the items. At least in the form I'm getting them in. I'll post all info when I get them and test my theory.
https://nitter.net/ObviousRises/status/2080137879758790944
I read somewhere that a particular type of WD-40 spray will render your license plate unreadable by a license plate reader... is this true? And is it legal? Does that include readers mounted on cop cars? Would that be probable cause for a cop to pull you over if the reader on his car couldn't see your license plate?
If they can't read your license plate, they will make sure it becomes your problem, not their problem. That is the entire purpose of the license plate requirement.
The official deflocker
https://polartool.us/products/milwaukee-fuel-sawzall-tool-only