I was at the VA the other day and I asked my doctor what he thought about masks. He said they help about 10% but the Socio economic impact they have is more damaging than they are helping. He spoke about children and how they are fearful and how they need to see peoples faces to understand facial expressions. He said in my professional opinion as a doctor I have to tell you to wear your mask and get the vaccine, I said what about your personal opinion? He said I’m not allowed to give you my personal opinion.
His personal opinion was obvious. If his personal opinion was the same he would’ve said so. The thing is he doesn’t know If I’m a douche with a recorder in my pocket ready to get him fucked over. He did make sure to tell me he voted for trump though. He said but because I work for the feds (raised his arm like nazi salute) I have to tell you to wear your mask and get the vaccine.
True. Though bigger than masks - a willingness to prescribe HCQ is probably a good litmus test on the honesty and and quality of these doctors. I wouldn't ever bother with the kind of doctor that was trained by the media to think HCQ was bad and masks were good.
And that, right there, screams that these people are willing to stand by while people are needlessly sickened or die from something they KNOW is harmful--face diapers; this is despicable beyond words. The anatomy and physiology is clear, unambiguous and true. I would never trust any of them who go along to get along. What ELSE will they do to feather their own nests? Together, these people could stop this IF they stood up and told the truth. That they won't is demonic.
It is unfortunate, but a lot of people in their position often have to toe the line when it comes to that. OP is an assumed patriot, but his doctor cannot know that for sure. In this current age and culture, we have people out there looking to cause conflict.
When I was working as a delivery driver for a medical company, I would engage in friendly conversation/smalltalk...until one day I received a complaint from an office I had visited. The nurse had called to complain I was unprofessional, when all I did was respond to her initiating conversation. Took me by surprise; I thought she was a very nice lady.
You can bet I stopped talking to anyone, politely telling them I just need to install and be on my way. I needed that job and the money. Is it different than OP’s situation? Absolutely, my opinion isn’t carrying the weight of the doctor’s...but I bet that doc needs that job, and risking it is too much.
I respectfully disagree. Our society would be much better if we were all honest with ourselves and those around us. We are people first, and believing that a title or position takes precedence will lead us to serve false masters. Someone will eventually criticise you anyway for being too silent, or for smiling too much, or too little. When everyone caves in, we live in a world of stuffed shirts where hearts are replaced by hot air and operational manuals. The good news is that it's always easy to be yourself, crack the shell, and let your real self shine. Don't be afraid.
The doctor's job is to teach his patients and impart the truth. To do less is a dereliction of duty and malpractice, at the very least. YOU were delivering and installing; people's lives did not depend on your being truthful as a health professional about things that people would ingest, be injected with, or wear.
How would you like to pay for medical school make a couple hundred thousand dollars a year buy a house have kids then lose your job. It's easy to talk tough.
Precisely! You have to do what you have to do, as long as you conscience allows. I like to think I put myself in other peoples shoes before judging them. Even with these Trump haters, I think if all I heard was MSM rhetoric I would maybe think the same, and especially if all I heard was Trump lovers condemning me.
I come from the angle of saying, 'I can see what you mean but did you hear the whole statement Trump made. People are more willing to listen.
Oh and to u/Dead_Echo my son in law is such a friendly chatty guy too and when he was working in a wood yard, he offered to help carry the wood to a car for a woman. He also used to for some of the men too by the way. This so and so took offence thinking he was inferring that she was weak because she was a woman, and complained to his boss, who literally gave him a warning. Needless to say he left not long after and found another job. This world is crazy right now.
It's also easy to say "I have to give you this info, but outside of the scope of this appointment and my employer's requirements, my personal opinion is X. Please don't repeat this without clarifying that it is my individual opinion and not the company policy." Honesty is always best. And if a person has a license to practice, they can get a new job within a week. The worst case is that they'd be asked to work contrary to their conscience, which is what they are already doing. That said, the doctor communicated his real opinion... context is important, and I can't criticize what I didn't witness, except on a hypothetical basis.
These people take solemn oaths; supposedly they're in these professions to contribute to the better health of those who consult them. There is a lot more to life than the money that some are so concerned with. This demonstrates little integrity, honesty, and a disinterest in doing the high calling that one signs on to do. Many bitch an moan about the condition of our country today. These attitudes and motivations are exactly what got us here.
^^^ This. He says he 'has to tell him to wear a mask and get a vaccine.' He's a freaking medical doctor. Why must he follow orders? And whose orders is he following?
He's following the orders of the company he works for. And in some locations, there is no choice. In my town, one big corporation owns the only hospital and all the doctors offices. They directly control what the doctors can and cannot prescribe.
"As a doctor, then, doesn't your OATH you swore FORBID you from recommending the mask? (Yes it does.) Aren't you therefore committing MALPRACTICE on me right now, knowingly?"
If you actually read the studies they quote, they are basic mechanistic studies testing the physical properties of cloth. They place a petri dish 8" from a person's mouth and have them cough into it, with and without a mask. That is the "study". It bears no relation to how people interact with each other in the real world.
The control they never include: are wearing masks any better than just coughing into your fucking elbow?
For the "studies" that "scientifically determined" that masks were not harmful in long term use, they had people wear fresh masks for one hour and measured their oxygen before and after. Visit any service business and tell me those people have only been wearing their sweat soaked masks for one hour.
OSHA is in the process of destroying decades of science, procedure, and policy on mask wearing right now to cover this up. Prior to Wuhan Flu, long term mask wearing always had to be accompanied by a fresh air supply because it's fucking obvious that you need fresh air.
But medically they help more than not according to science.
False. "According to science," every journal article I can find says the exact opposite. The masks are not only useless, they are medically harmful to many wearers. And this thread has 30 links I haven't even gotten to yet.
"professional opinion...?" That means he's controlled and is a good little sheep willing to promote the "official" [DS] govt narrative.
As for his response re: his personal opinion: this means he's a good little sheep willing to promote the "official" [DS] govt narrative.
All because he's afraid of losing his job. These Drs have "rules" and "protocols" they have to follow while employed by ANY govt subsidized health related govt agency, hospital, health network, etc. Which, "coincidentally," violates the Hyppocratic Oath on every level.
I've experienced this myself at the V.A. Recently, in fact, when I has a sudden, extremely uncontrollable nose bleed. The "protocol," as they kept referring to it, was such that they forced me to acquiesce to a treatment I did not want, in order to control and stop the bleeding, WITHOUT calling in an ENT Dr to oversee it, or even evaluate me. They even threatened to release me under my own care, even though I had lost about 2 pts of blood before the bleeding was contained. Had it pouring out of my nose AND down the back of my throat. They were actually willing to let me die under my own care, than break the protocol and do what I was asking them to do. All I wanted was an ENT to cauterize the wound. Except, the ER Doc flat out REFUSED to even call her. It was either take the rhino rocket, or die. No other choices. And this is my only option for healthcare atm, so I did what I needed to in order to stay among the living. (How fucked up is that?) I was forced to have a fucking inflatable nasal tampon shoved up my left nostril ad left there for a week BEFORE I could even see an ENT. And it was inserted by an ER Doc incorrectly. Highly painful when it shouldn't have been. And I now have a pretty gnarly sinus infection as a result, even though I was prescribed antibiotics to control any infectious outbreak. They didn't even offer me a blood transfusion after I filled up two of those pink plastic bins with blood and saliva. The next day I puked up all the blood that went to my stomach. I'd estimate at least a pint went in my gut, and a pint went out thru me nose. If you've never puked up blood before, it's disgusting. Scared my 10 yr old daughter to the point she had a panic attack because she thought she'd lose her dad, too. (Mom decided to split and left the kids behind to lead a new life, so I'm all she has left now. My girl was 5 when her mother ran out on her. Talk about scary for a kid to witness and deal with!)
My point is, "IF" you think any govt related agency, hospital, Dr, etc is on your side, you're wrong. They don't give a fuck about true medicine, true healthcare, or medical truth in general. If they did, we wouldn't have the issues we have now in EVERY MAJOR health agency, hospital conglomerates, Big Pharma, etc.
I've tried to engage nurses and doctors about covid in the past year. They all seem very uneasy about it and give strange answers. When all of these hospitals went corporate and pretty much strong armed the doctors into being their employees, it really changed everything. In our last visit to the hospital/doctor's office, we both left thinking NOW EVEN THE MEDICAL FIELD IS BROKEN. DS, Washington DC, congress, Supreme Court, public education system and now our doctors. I think this is all going to change in a very short while. NCSWIC!!!!!
I agree I was married to a doctor for over 20 years. I sat and listened to her contract reviews and that’s when I learned what they were under. They are profit centers which often conflicts with careraker
You don’t want their blood now a days anyway. From a fellow vet (who hasn’t been allowed in the building for over a year) you have my sympathy. Such a fracked system.
I was informed the other day all the docs at the via are just school docs, it’sa bing testing place and they know it. They make fun of how they treat us half the time. Disgusting “government” healthcare is another one of the lies we get to live in these days.
Regular docs are highly policed as well, and non-VA care is extremely messed up too. Most other countries have average care levels far above our own, due to the medical cartel. Doctors that buck the system exist, but they have to dodge the regulators.
I agree. It seems even with the funds to post out of pocket, finding an honest doctor is no easy task. A sad state of affairs. Praying it won’t last much longer. I thought it would have broken by now, but it’s super well funded.
Last I knew, the "laws" didn't allow any practitioner to speak against anything medical. That's probably one reason that I lost a lot of interest in my chosen discipline and my discipline was not medical. My answer was to say what I would do in a certain situation. Until health practitioners understand that, as with anything else, there is great power in numbers, we will continue to have people of low principles running things. The light truth can rectify a great many wrongs.
I was at the VA the other day and I asked my doctor what he thought about masks. He said they help about 10% but the Socio economic impact they have is more damaging than they are helping. He spoke about children and how they are fearful and how they need to see peoples faces to understand facial expressions. He said in my professional opinion as a doctor I have to tell you to wear your mask and get the vaccine, I said what about your personal opinion? He said I’m not allowed to give you my personal opinion.
"I’m not allowed”
BS. Grow a pair
His personal opinion was obvious. If his personal opinion was the same he would’ve said so. The thing is he doesn’t know If I’m a douche with a recorder in my pocket ready to get him fucked over. He did make sure to tell me he voted for trump though. He said but because I work for the feds (raised his arm like nazi salute) I have to tell you to wear your mask and get the vaccine.
That's as crystal clear as he can make it without verbalizing it.
True. Though bigger than masks - a willingness to prescribe HCQ is probably a good litmus test on the honesty and and quality of these doctors. I wouldn't ever bother with the kind of doctor that was trained by the media to think HCQ was bad and masks were good.
If he feels more harm is being done with them than without he is legally obligated to uphold his hippocratic oath and is defended in doing so by 1A.
And that, right there, screams that these people are willing to stand by while people are needlessly sickened or die from something they KNOW is harmful--face diapers; this is despicable beyond words. The anatomy and physiology is clear, unambiguous and true. I would never trust any of them who go along to get along. What ELSE will they do to feather their own nests? Together, these people could stop this IF they stood up and told the truth. That they won't is demonic.
It is unfortunate, but a lot of people in their position often have to toe the line when it comes to that. OP is an assumed patriot, but his doctor cannot know that for sure. In this current age and culture, we have people out there looking to cause conflict.
When I was working as a delivery driver for a medical company, I would engage in friendly conversation/smalltalk...until one day I received a complaint from an office I had visited. The nurse had called to complain I was unprofessional, when all I did was respond to her initiating conversation. Took me by surprise; I thought she was a very nice lady.
You can bet I stopped talking to anyone, politely telling them I just need to install and be on my way. I needed that job and the money. Is it different than OP’s situation? Absolutely, my opinion isn’t carrying the weight of the doctor’s...but I bet that doc needs that job, and risking it is too much.
I respectfully disagree. Our society would be much better if we were all honest with ourselves and those around us. We are people first, and believing that a title or position takes precedence will lead us to serve false masters. Someone will eventually criticise you anyway for being too silent, or for smiling too much, or too little. When everyone caves in, we live in a world of stuffed shirts where hearts are replaced by hot air and operational manuals. The good news is that it's always easy to be yourself, crack the shell, and let your real self shine. Don't be afraid.
Wish I could upvote this 1000x and shout it from a mountaintop.
The doctor's job is to teach his patients and impart the truth. To do less is a dereliction of duty and malpractice, at the very least. YOU were delivering and installing; people's lives did not depend on your being truthful as a health professional about things that people would ingest, be injected with, or wear.
How would you like to pay for medical school make a couple hundred thousand dollars a year buy a house have kids then lose your job. It's easy to talk tough.
Precisely! You have to do what you have to do, as long as you conscience allows. I like to think I put myself in other peoples shoes before judging them. Even with these Trump haters, I think if all I heard was MSM rhetoric I would maybe think the same, and especially if all I heard was Trump lovers condemning me.
I come from the angle of saying, 'I can see what you mean but did you hear the whole statement Trump made. People are more willing to listen.
Oh and to u/Dead_Echo my son in law is such a friendly chatty guy too and when he was working in a wood yard, he offered to help carry the wood to a car for a woman. He also used to for some of the men too by the way. This so and so took offence thinking he was inferring that she was weak because she was a woman, and complained to his boss, who literally gave him a warning. Needless to say he left not long after and found another job. This world is crazy right now.
It's also easy to say "I have to give you this info, but outside of the scope of this appointment and my employer's requirements, my personal opinion is X. Please don't repeat this without clarifying that it is my individual opinion and not the company policy." Honesty is always best. And if a person has a license to practice, they can get a new job within a week. The worst case is that they'd be asked to work contrary to their conscience, which is what they are already doing. That said, the doctor communicated his real opinion... context is important, and I can't criticize what I didn't witness, except on a hypothetical basis.
These people take solemn oaths; supposedly they're in these professions to contribute to the better health of those who consult them. There is a lot more to life than the money that some are so concerned with. This demonstrates little integrity, honesty, and a disinterest in doing the high calling that one signs on to do. Many bitch an moan about the condition of our country today. These attitudes and motivations are exactly what got us here.
So much for 1a and Hippocratic oath right.
^^^ This. He says he 'has to tell him to wear a mask and get a vaccine.' He's a freaking medical doctor. Why must he follow orders? And whose orders is he following?
He's following the orders of the company he works for. And in some locations, there is no choice. In my town, one big corporation owns the only hospital and all the doctors offices. They directly control what the doctors can and cannot prescribe.
"As a doctor, then, doesn't your OATH you swore FORBID you from recommending the mask? (Yes it does.) Aren't you therefore committing MALPRACTICE on me right now, knowingly?"
Socio economically they are more damaging than helping. But medically they help more than not according to science.
I think you better recheck your science.
If you actually read the studies they quote, they are basic mechanistic studies testing the physical properties of cloth. They place a petri dish 8" from a person's mouth and have them cough into it, with and without a mask. That is the "study". It bears no relation to how people interact with each other in the real world.
The control they never include: are wearing masks any better than just coughing into your fucking elbow?
For the "studies" that "scientifically determined" that masks were not harmful in long term use, they had people wear fresh masks for one hour and measured their oxygen before and after. Visit any service business and tell me those people have only been wearing their sweat soaked masks for one hour.
OSHA is in the process of destroying decades of science, procedure, and policy on mask wearing right now to cover this up. Prior to Wuhan Flu, long term mask wearing always had to be accompanied by a fresh air supply because it's fucking obvious that you need fresh air.
Bravo! Well said.
False. "According to science," every journal article I can find says the exact opposite. The masks are not only useless, they are medically harmful to many wearers. And this thread has 30 links I haven't even gotten to yet.
He said according to science as if he was quoting someone, not like he conducted the experiments himself.
"professional opinion...?" That means he's controlled and is a good little sheep willing to promote the "official" [DS] govt narrative.
As for his response re: his personal opinion: this means he's a good little sheep willing to promote the "official" [DS] govt narrative.
All because he's afraid of losing his job. These Drs have "rules" and "protocols" they have to follow while employed by ANY govt subsidized health related govt agency, hospital, health network, etc. Which, "coincidentally," violates the Hyppocratic Oath on every level.
I've experienced this myself at the V.A. Recently, in fact, when I has a sudden, extremely uncontrollable nose bleed. The "protocol," as they kept referring to it, was such that they forced me to acquiesce to a treatment I did not want, in order to control and stop the bleeding, WITHOUT calling in an ENT Dr to oversee it, or even evaluate me. They even threatened to release me under my own care, even though I had lost about 2 pts of blood before the bleeding was contained. Had it pouring out of my nose AND down the back of my throat. They were actually willing to let me die under my own care, than break the protocol and do what I was asking them to do. All I wanted was an ENT to cauterize the wound. Except, the ER Doc flat out REFUSED to even call her. It was either take the rhino rocket, or die. No other choices. And this is my only option for healthcare atm, so I did what I needed to in order to stay among the living. (How fucked up is that?) I was forced to have a fucking inflatable nasal tampon shoved up my left nostril ad left there for a week BEFORE I could even see an ENT. And it was inserted by an ER Doc incorrectly. Highly painful when it shouldn't have been. And I now have a pretty gnarly sinus infection as a result, even though I was prescribed antibiotics to control any infectious outbreak. They didn't even offer me a blood transfusion after I filled up two of those pink plastic bins with blood and saliva. The next day I puked up all the blood that went to my stomach. I'd estimate at least a pint went in my gut, and a pint went out thru me nose. If you've never puked up blood before, it's disgusting. Scared my 10 yr old daughter to the point she had a panic attack because she thought she'd lose her dad, too. (Mom decided to split and left the kids behind to lead a new life, so I'm all she has left now. My girl was 5 when her mother ran out on her. Talk about scary for a kid to witness and deal with!)
My point is, "IF" you think any govt related agency, hospital, Dr, etc is on your side, you're wrong. They don't give a fuck about true medicine, true healthcare, or medical truth in general. If they did, we wouldn't have the issues we have now in EVERY MAJOR health agency, hospital conglomerates, Big Pharma, etc.
Yes Big Gov and Big Pharma own the practitioners. Docs have become pill pushers
I've tried to engage nurses and doctors about covid in the past year. They all seem very uneasy about it and give strange answers. When all of these hospitals went corporate and pretty much strong armed the doctors into being their employees, it really changed everything. In our last visit to the hospital/doctor's office, we both left thinking NOW EVEN THE MEDICAL FIELD IS BROKEN. DS, Washington DC, congress, Supreme Court, public education system and now our doctors. I think this is all going to change in a very short while. NCSWIC!!!!!
I agree I was married to a doctor for over 20 years. I sat and listened to her contract reviews and that’s when I learned what they were under. They are profit centers which often conflicts with careraker
You don’t want their blood now a days anyway. From a fellow vet (who hasn’t been allowed in the building for over a year) you have my sympathy. Such a fracked system.
I was informed the other day all the docs at the via are just school docs, it’sa bing testing place and they know it. They make fun of how they treat us half the time. Disgusting “government” healthcare is another one of the lies we get to live in these days.
Regular docs are highly policed as well, and non-VA care is extremely messed up too. Most other countries have average care levels far above our own, due to the medical cartel. Doctors that buck the system exist, but they have to dodge the regulators.
I agree. It seems even with the funds to post out of pocket, finding an honest doctor is no easy task. A sad state of affairs. Praying it won’t last much longer. I thought it would have broken by now, but it’s super well funded.
That sounds horrible. I'm sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing.
Last I knew, the "laws" didn't allow any practitioner to speak against anything medical. That's probably one reason that I lost a lot of interest in my chosen discipline and my discipline was not medical. My answer was to say what I would do in a certain situation. Until health practitioners understand that, as with anything else, there is great power in numbers, we will continue to have people of low principles running things. The light truth can rectify a great many wrongs.
Better find a new doctor.
Unfortunately Government health care doesn’t allow doctor changes by choice. Choice is not allowed when the government pays the bills.
He’s a coward and a liar