Honestly, the cord needs to be cut between religion and the government. Not only should churches have 501c3 removed, but donors should not get the tax break. Donations to your spiritual house should have no records for tax purposes.
I remember a goofy preacher years ago that was in a battle with the federal government over donor records. He basically told the Feds to go *@&! themselves and that he would burn all the records before he turned them over. The Feds didn't like him because he spoke out against the government. The FCC pulled the plug on his UHF television station just when he started getting into HAARP. This guy was red pilling people back in the 80s and the Feds didn't like it. On the flip side however, I do think he was ripping people off. But hey... that is the donor's problem. If someone wants to give their money to a grifter, that is their choice. We don't need nanny state to rescue us from our own stupidity - which is really just an excuse to crawl up everyone's business.
Sadly, the government exerts more influence in our houses of worship more than we realize. Could that be a reason they are so ineffectual? No one wants to rock the boat and receive unwanted attention from the powers that appear to run everything. Houses of worship will be involved in getting everyone into those FEMA camps and getting their shots. If you are in one of these places, get out now. God help us.
Yep, taxes are just democratic theft. I understand that to some degree it is a necessary evil... But the federal gov should certainly never be taxing individuals; all individual taxation should happen at the state level or lower. I mean, why should California and New York be allowed to vote and influence taxes on wages earned in Texas???
For property tax, at the very least, primary residences should be exempt. Let people own their homes!
We saw with lockdowns that the head of the church seems to be the gov. Not Christ. I hate saying this but their compliance seems to indicate that the 501c3 has put them under gov rule.Oh but they did get bailout $ too so that prob justified their obedience to lockdowns. I love Jesus I thank God He saved me and I dont mean to talk bad about HIS church, its just I wonder if many churches in America are HIs, or have they left their first love
Maybe this will hasten a return to simple gatherings of believers around kitchen tables on the Sabbath instead of massive congregations forming in buildings owned by corporate overlords.
Church is a business. They market guilt to get you to pay tithe while consuming your tithes and offerings. These go up from your local congregation to the higher corporate church offices and pay their salaries. Some money gets spent on good works. Some. And some churches actually try to do the good works God commands but most just consume the sacrifices for their own pleasure.
With or without exemption, with or without the IRS, I will still pray. I will still praise GOD. I will still worship GOD. I will still recognize GOD as the provider of ALL blessings. And, ALL means ALL.
And, I will still thank GOD daily for saving me through His Son, Jesus Christ. "The Way, The TRUTH, The Life" .
I have mixed emotions. On the one hand, the Govt has no business telling spiritual orgs what they can and cannot do. On the other, we have groups like Antifa and BLM that are tax exempt "charities" and we all KNOW what that money is really used for. So, this ruling is conflicted, at the very least, and outright tyrannical at the worst.
Time to start filing lawsuits against the IRS for such practices. Especially since this new ruling. That means we can directly go after the U.S. Govt for openly supporting terror orgs like Antifa, BLM, etc.
The government should not be involved in where a stupid person wants to place their money. If people want to give money to organizations like BLM and Antifa, or even some fake prophet or teacher, that is their business and not the government's. In addition, the people are the one's that should expose corrupt organizations as a warning. Nothing dries up donations quicker than negative exposure.
By creating this nanny state, we now have several generations that cannot think for themselves and do their own due diligence in evaluating where their money is going. It has all been part of the dumbing down of the public. Sometimes, experience is the best teacher - not the government. When someone gets financially burned, they normally don't repeat the same thing. Like an overprotective parent, a society is crippled when it stops people from learning hard lessons. We definitely need a reset - but not the kind Schwab wants.
I'd be open to getting rid of religious tax exempt status IF they get rid of tax exempt status all together. Nobody should be exempt nor should businesses get "breaks" if they relocate.
Liberal run "non-profits" in particular should be called "Laundering Spots and Tax Shelters".
Moreover, with the way the Catholic Church is going with Pope Pinko I, I'm sure libs have been and will be exploiting those exemptions in no time.
Giving these dipshits these kinds of cards to play leads to all sorts of bullshit corruption. Like most of DC, they all gotta go.
I would like to unpack that a bit.....no exemption, no foot on the churches neck.....when the church leadership is impacted by the stupid decisions of government taxes, then my hope is they will speak God's truth from the pulpit and contrast the governments actions to what is ordained in scripture. And contrast God's word to how representatives vote/act.
Churches that control larger pieces of real estate will have to act like any other business and realign expenditures to pay any new requirements. The taxation move will also kick open the door for them to use the property to generate income, so now they have a "profit" making store, rent meeting rooms, or charge for a gym membership.
As far as individual donating to the church is concerned, the standard deduction is higher than my itemized right now, so that part of the hammer was addressed a few years ago. Giving and Tithing is an exercise between God and individuals, so the governments position on it is not considered relevant to some practitioners.
Ordained employee's income taxes?....No doubt a churches finance committee will have to adjust an employees salary/compensation for retention. But cooperate America has led the way in utilizing the tax law to maximize the compensation that ends up in a CEOs pocket, now the Church must do the same.
Every church is surrounded by businesses that are paying taxes, and the businesses are surviving.
1 impact, property taxes? That is state/local, but, every member is participating in paying property taxes, so putting a tax value on the church property can be addressed with some wisdom from God.
You have some really good points. I would add that this structure has created vocations for people in the business of religion and not callings. Tax exemption status has in effect, muzzled its voice. I agree that our houses of worship should be self sufficient and should consider community businesses, taxed like any other business, to help with operational costs and also as a service to the community apart from just a place to worship.
We wonder why our houses of worship are so powerless and weak. What you stated is a big part of why the churches are so ineffectual. The threat of losing that tax status keeps them quiet. The Great Awakening of our country back in the day through the churches helped set the stage for the people throwing off tyrannical government overreach. Those churches were not affiliated or controlled by the governmental authorities and were some of the biggest voices speaking truth to power. Until our houses of worship break the government's censoring influence through these tax structures, they will continue being controlled.
Thank you. For many to have any concern about loosing it is really absurd, a lack of writing it down and thinking it through.....taxes are on profits and real estate. There would not be any "profit" once all the widows and orphans had been cared for.
A large percentage of congregations use properties that are small and older. (Not to mention the churches that rent a place, is that rented slot in the strip mall excluded from property taxes while the tenant is a church?).
There are many in low cost areas of their towns and counties, so the value of the facilities would not be exuberant.
The pastor is already bi-vocational.
It is like you have observed, vocations in the business of religion. Further, by people that have been trained in the secular education system for 13 to 17 years to not challenge the "system".....not really what you want for someone that can stand between you and a lake of fire.
Very well stated. For our houses of worship to be healthy and strong, they need to break away from any type of government subsidy. Tax exempt status qualifies as a government subsidy. I like your idea about taking care of the widows and orphans because that is what the Master charged us to do. So much focus has been diverted to feed the beast and grow the number of seat decorations that our mission to take care of the community around us has been lost. They will send missionaries out in the field to foreign countries while those in their own communities are lost. This makes no sense. The body of believers given so much in this country will have much to answer for.
They admit prayer works. Then they try to stop it?
Christians who truly pray and reverence God are more powerful.
Greater is he that is in you( spiritually Christ) than he (satan) that is in this world.
wait, you guys want religions to be tax exempt? thats the biggest scam in our country. Its why scientology pretends to be a religion... we should abolish ALL taxes except for those we actually need. If a religion is true, and just, they will have no trouble getting funding.
Its the 501c3 that kept pastors from preaching what the state doesnt like.
There are no political solutions to a spiritual problem.
Agreed. Removal of 501c3 would be the best thing to ever happen to the church.
Honestly, the cord needs to be cut between religion and the government. Not only should churches have 501c3 removed, but donors should not get the tax break. Donations to your spiritual house should have no records for tax purposes.
I remember a goofy preacher years ago that was in a battle with the federal government over donor records. He basically told the Feds to go *@&! themselves and that he would burn all the records before he turned them over. The Feds didn't like him because he spoke out against the government. The FCC pulled the plug on his UHF television station just when he started getting into HAARP. This guy was red pilling people back in the 80s and the Feds didn't like it. On the flip side however, I do think he was ripping people off. But hey... that is the donor's problem. If someone wants to give their money to a grifter, that is their choice. We don't need nanny state to rescue us from our own stupidity - which is really just an excuse to crawl up everyone's business.
Sadly, the government exerts more influence in our houses of worship more than we realize. Could that be a reason they are so ineffectual? No one wants to rock the boat and receive unwanted attention from the powers that appear to run everything. Houses of worship will be involved in getting everyone into those FEMA camps and getting their shots. If you are in one of these places, get out now. God help us.
Yep, Mark Taylor has been preaching about this for years.
The Left are SO.....Afraid of us. They are doing everything they can to rid us of our Lord and Savior. We will still WIN because GOD WINS.
Amen...??
https://nypost.com/2021/06/17/hong-kong-police-arrest-5-editors-execs-in-newspaper-raid/ Hong Kong right now.
They should be afraid...but not of us...
That's right. It is the Lord himself they are afraid of. But I still feel they are afraid of us too; why else would they be trying to silence us?
501c3 church is a tool of the state anyway.
It's an unpopular opinion because you got it backwards. Business should be taxed like religion.
Yes, absolutely.
I never see anyone saying this.
People should be exempt from property taxes too.
Yep, taxes are just democratic theft. I understand that to some degree it is a necessary evil... But the federal gov should certainly never be taxing individuals; all individual taxation should happen at the state level or lower. I mean, why should California and New York be allowed to vote and influence taxes on wages earned in Texas???
For property tax, at the very least, primary residences should be exempt. Let people own their homes!
We saw with lockdowns that the head of the church seems to be the gov. Not Christ. I hate saying this but their compliance seems to indicate that the 501c3 has put them under gov rule.Oh but they did get bailout $ too so that prob justified their obedience to lockdowns. I love Jesus I thank God He saved me and I dont mean to talk bad about HIS church, its just I wonder if many churches in America are HIs, or have they left their first love
Ah, so it's a battle they want? They choose the wrong side! Let's pray for the removal of the IRS.
Maybe this will hasten a return to simple gatherings of believers around kitchen tables on the Sabbath instead of massive congregations forming in buildings owned by corporate overlords.
Church is a business. They market guilt to get you to pay tithe while consuming your tithes and offerings. These go up from your local congregation to the higher corporate church offices and pay their salaries. Some money gets spent on good works. Some. And some churches actually try to do the good works God commands but most just consume the sacrifices for their own pleasure.
The IRS is not constitutional in origin.
With or without exemption, with or without the IRS, I will still pray. I will still praise GOD. I will still worship GOD. I will still recognize GOD as the provider of ALL blessings. And, ALL means ALL.
And, I will still thank GOD daily for saving me through His Son, Jesus Christ. "The Way, The TRUTH, The Life" .
Don't have a problem with this....much corruption operates under the guise of God.
The easiest solution is to abolish the IRS
I have mixed emotions. On the one hand, the Govt has no business telling spiritual orgs what they can and cannot do. On the other, we have groups like Antifa and BLM that are tax exempt "charities" and we all KNOW what that money is really used for. So, this ruling is conflicted, at the very least, and outright tyrannical at the worst.
Time to start filing lawsuits against the IRS for such practices. Especially since this new ruling. That means we can directly go after the U.S. Govt for openly supporting terror orgs like Antifa, BLM, etc.
The government should not be involved in where a stupid person wants to place their money. If people want to give money to organizations like BLM and Antifa, or even some fake prophet or teacher, that is their business and not the government's. In addition, the people are the one's that should expose corrupt organizations as a warning. Nothing dries up donations quicker than negative exposure.
By creating this nanny state, we now have several generations that cannot think for themselves and do their own due diligence in evaluating where their money is going. It has all been part of the dumbing down of the public. Sometimes, experience is the best teacher - not the government. When someone gets financially burned, they normally don't repeat the same thing. Like an overprotective parent, a society is crippled when it stops people from learning hard lessons. We definitely need a reset - but not the kind Schwab wants.
Good. The 501c3 kept pastors/ministers muzzled anyhow.
I'd be open to getting rid of religious tax exempt status IF they get rid of tax exempt status all together. Nobody should be exempt nor should businesses get "breaks" if they relocate.
Liberal run "non-profits" in particular should be called "Laundering Spots and Tax Shelters".
Moreover, with the way the Catholic Church is going with Pope Pinko I, I'm sure libs have been and will be exploiting those exemptions in no time.
Giving these dipshits these kinds of cards to play leads to all sorts of bullshit corruption. Like most of DC, they all gotta go.
Duplicate
I would like to unpack that a bit.....no exemption, no foot on the churches neck.....when the church leadership is impacted by the stupid decisions of government taxes, then my hope is they will speak God's truth from the pulpit and contrast the governments actions to what is ordained in scripture. And contrast God's word to how representatives vote/act.
Churches that control larger pieces of real estate will have to act like any other business and realign expenditures to pay any new requirements. The taxation move will also kick open the door for them to use the property to generate income, so now they have a "profit" making store, rent meeting rooms, or charge for a gym membership.
As far as individual donating to the church is concerned, the standard deduction is higher than my itemized right now, so that part of the hammer was addressed a few years ago. Giving and Tithing is an exercise between God and individuals, so the governments position on it is not considered relevant to some practitioners.
Ordained employee's income taxes?....No doubt a churches finance committee will have to adjust an employees salary/compensation for retention. But cooperate America has led the way in utilizing the tax law to maximize the compensation that ends up in a CEOs pocket, now the Church must do the same.
Every church is surrounded by businesses that are paying taxes, and the businesses are surviving.
1 impact, property taxes? That is state/local, but, every member is participating in paying property taxes, so putting a tax value on the church property can be addressed with some wisdom from God.
You have some really good points. I would add that this structure has created vocations for people in the business of religion and not callings. Tax exemption status has in effect, muzzled its voice. I agree that our houses of worship should be self sufficient and should consider community businesses, taxed like any other business, to help with operational costs and also as a service to the community apart from just a place to worship.
We wonder why our houses of worship are so powerless and weak. What you stated is a big part of why the churches are so ineffectual. The threat of losing that tax status keeps them quiet. The Great Awakening of our country back in the day through the churches helped set the stage for the people throwing off tyrannical government overreach. Those churches were not affiliated or controlled by the governmental authorities and were some of the biggest voices speaking truth to power. Until our houses of worship break the government's censoring influence through these tax structures, they will continue being controlled.
Thank you. For many to have any concern about loosing it is really absurd, a lack of writing it down and thinking it through.....taxes are on profits and real estate. There would not be any "profit" once all the widows and orphans had been cared for.
A large percentage of congregations use properties that are small and older. (Not to mention the churches that rent a place, is that rented slot in the strip mall excluded from property taxes while the tenant is a church?).
There are many in low cost areas of their towns and counties, so the value of the facilities would not be exuberant.
The pastor is already bi-vocational.
It is like you have observed, vocations in the business of religion. Further, by people that have been trained in the secular education system for 13 to 17 years to not challenge the "system".....not really what you want for someone that can stand between you and a lake of fire.
Very well stated. For our houses of worship to be healthy and strong, they need to break away from any type of government subsidy. Tax exempt status qualifies as a government subsidy. I like your idea about taking care of the widows and orphans because that is what the Master charged us to do. So much focus has been diverted to feed the beast and grow the number of seat decorations that our mission to take care of the community around us has been lost. They will send missionaries out in the field to foreign countries while those in their own communities are lost. This makes no sense. The body of believers given so much in this country will have much to answer for.
George Carlin:
I don't believe in any god that requires heavy financing.
They admit prayer works. Then they try to stop it?
Christians who truly pray and reverence God are more powerful. Greater is he that is in you( spiritually Christ) than he (satan) that is in this world.
if they remove the exemptions they will lose their control over the religious institutions. i say do it.
wait, you guys want religions to be tax exempt? thats the biggest scam in our country. Its why scientology pretends to be a religion... we should abolish ALL taxes except for those we actually need. If a religion is true, and just, they will have no trouble getting funding.
Yes, please! Tax the dogshit out of churches. I'm so tired of Joel Osteen.
Im pretty sure he's literally a demon.