I feel like I'm living in crazy world over here. With the exception of some of my immediate family, everyone I know has been bewitched by the covid and vax narrative.
I'll admit, back in the start of 2020 I was shit scared. Seeing images of people collapsed in the street in China etc. I was totally sure it was coming for me. But bit by bit the cracks started appearing and with what we all know now, I feel like I'm totally awake, at least in regards to covid/vax shit.
But it doesn't seem to be... enough? There's literally nothing I can say to my asleep friends and colleagues that they don't immediately jump on me for. E.g.:
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If i say "information about Ivermectin is being suppressed, and actually it looks like it has a lot of potential", they say "it's been debunked and nothing is being suppressed, it just doesn't work!". I can show them link after link but they always say it's from an untrustworthy source or the data is being presented in a biased way.
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If I say "the vaccinated people carry just as many viral particles as the unvaccinated according to the CDC", they just say "NO THEY DON'T", and again, links showing it are poo-pooed as being untrustworthy or misrepresented.
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I told a colleague today that lockdowns and restrictions that are based on vax percentage are silly because even vaxxed people get sick and can spread it around, and I was told that 1. it's not true (vaxxed people don't get as sick), 2. there's no viable alternative and 3. that doing it is "prudent public policy".
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My own father told me "Get yourself and your kids vaxxed, I don't want my grandchildren dying from it. Even 38 year olds like yourself are dying from a mild delta covid." (He didn't seem to grasp the fact that he said "dying of a mild covid")
And of course you can't tell them to look anything up themselves because you know as soon as they type something into google (which they'll use, of course), they're bombarded with a billion "fact check" articles.
I'm trying to be brave and trying to be resilient but I feel like there's nothing I can say that they can't just dismiss by saying it's not from trustworthy sources. And then whenever I mention any new stuff they scoff and think I'm a nut job. I'm starting to think "Am I just persisting with the anti-covid-vax narrative because I'm addicted to being David fighting Goliath? Do I just love being the underdog, or just being contrarian? Is that just my identity now? Maybe they're all correct and I'm just trying to make a personality out of being the opposite...". It's getting to the point of intrusive thoughts...
Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this rant. I'm just tired of trying to wake up the people I care about only to be scoffed at and told I'm the reason people around the world are dying, and that I shouldn't be allowed to work/go out etc. How can I stop feeling so demoralised and let down by the world these days?
Stop trying.
You're right. Actually I have been trying to be less 'edgy' about it and just say "Look if you want the vax, go get it. Just don't tell me off for not wanting it." and trying to end it there. But it doesn't placate them. They just blame me for not being "community minded" or some shit.
You need a sabbatical from these people. Can you do that? And Iceman is right. You need to reach a point where you no longer feel the need to explain anything to anyone. And you always have us here as your family. Sure, we can’t hug you, but we can listen and understand you. And in these crazy times, that goes a long ways.
Peace.
Thanks man. It's mostly my workmates and my dad who are the most brainwashed. I guess I could just avoid talking about anything but it really grinds my gears when they start bragging about how virtuous they are because they got the jab.
Just tell them nobody fucking cares about their stupid bullshit when they get all gushy. That’s the biggest truth bomb you can give them.
Me too, I got really annoyed with that type of person too. My family is loaded with the Genetically Modified.
I direct my anger (rage really) at those that did this TO them.
I do believe they will wake up, and I think it will be a very difficult time for them. All we can do is pray and fight for them as they are unable to fight for themselves at this time.
The people that I love & have been jabbed have all fought & sacrificed for me growing up, I will do the same for them now.
The vaxxed are a cult plain as simple. If you look how a cult works that's them.
I usually respond stating that I got the measles vaccine.
I know, right. They are so proud, as though they actually DID something heroic, like save a baby from a burning building. Maybe you should just call them all heroes. They'd probably believe you were being earnest.
Yup this ^^^
great comment. Short but to the point. We need to reach a point where we no longer feel the need to explain, and just do what we have to do.
OP, when people are disagreeing with your conclusions, then you have to dig down to the premises that those conclusions are based on, and deal with those issues.
Most people today don't seem to understand basic logic. You should learn a little because it might help in your conversations.
One basic form of logic goes like this:
EVERY TIME you are discussing a political issue, it is a CONCLUSION that you are discussing at the surface level.
BUT ... those conclusions are BASED on PREMISES that are NOT being directly discussed.
This is the #1 reason WHY people disagree on these topics. It is NOT the conclusion where we disagree. It ist he HIDDEN PREMISE(S) where we actually disagree.
So, consider this:
You have to examine EACH PREMISE to determine IF the conclusion is true or false. If one or more premise is NOT true, then the conclusion cannot be said to be true.
When someone tells you that Covid is deadly, they are using a FALSE PREMISE to base their conclusion on. Namely, that "The media always tells the truth."
In this case, your REAL disagreement with that person is their false belief that the media always tells the truth.
Of course, there might be another hidden premise, something along the lines of, "OK, the media SOMETIMES tells a lie, but they would NEVER tell a 'Big Lie'." That is another false premise that you would have to deal with, if you encounter it.
Here's another situation:
The people you are dealing with most likely disagree with either Premise #1 or Premise #3. That is why they disagree with your conclusion.
So ...
You have to drill down into WHY they believe something (what the premises are that they accept, which lead them to their conclusions).
MOST people NEVER examine their own premises. In fact, MOST people have NO IDEA that they have accepted premises that OTHER PEOPLE (media, family, friends, co-workers, associates, random "experts") have brainwashed them into believing.
MOST people NEVER understand WHY they believe something. They "just believe it" and then argue it. They defend their position (conclusion) BECAUSE they don't know why they believe it. They THINK this is what they believe. In reality, it is a CONCLUSION based on PREMISES that they believe, but have no idea they believe these premises.
So ...
You might ask them questions (rather than trying to feed them facts) that get at their premises (and ignore for the moment their conclusions) such as ...
These types of questions will get at the ROOT of why they REALLY disagree with you. Then, you attack those premises that they are probably not even aware of.
This is what Socrates did, and he changed the world.
This is awesome. Thanks heaps fren!
I love this place!
This is excellent
Yeah pretty much this. This is how I enrage all of these types. By just asking them questions. However, whether or not they realize it, these people seem to be highly trained in the art of deflection and ignoring their own cognitive dissonance. As long as the TV continues to reinforce their behavior as "compassionate" and "the science" it makes it really easy for them to flip on "American Idol" and start 'batin. After all, they have science on their side.
You'll know it's effective when they deflect, shame or mock, or become agitated. The ones that don't do this, there is hope for. Very few though. I've only met one. Because no matter how the interaction ends, the NPCs will just retreat to their subreddit with the TV on so they can "decompress".
Just ask questions and don't try to tell them they're wrong. If they make a claim, counter it with a question. You won't win the debate (in their mind) but you'll permanently leave them with a little nagger in their head. Then once their beloved media begins to atone, they will act different around you. You'll notice that they are a little more timid around you each time because they are actually feeling shame. When they get to that level, just be nice to them and be an example. You don't gotta rub it in their faces.
This is exactly the point I have been trying to explain. You have to go back to the beginning and throw out almost all the premises.
The problem is that, as can even be seen is this comment/explanation, it is difficult to explain quickly.
Sometimes you do just have to give up. They shit their own bed, they can sleep in it. It’s unfortunate and even sad, but that’s the downside of free will, if being coerced by the TV even counts as free will.
One of the more disgusting manipulations of many has been using the previously well-regarded concept of vaccine to trojan-horse in these nasty little compounds that arent vaccines in any sense, with none of them changing immunity levels, either at the individual level or wider, none stimulating antibodies etc.
So all the social pressure and shared view that these are a public good are based on lies and fraud.
When the vaxxed start dying in numbers too high to continually cover up and distract from, I think it spells the end of the vaccine industry and concept. Companies that are literally too murderous and criminal to ever be trusted again in any way. Think IG Farben, but instead an entire industry razed to the ground instead of just a company.
In a conversation I had today the other guy said “why wouldn’t you trust them, vaccines have been around and trusted for years”
And that’s when I realised that there are still people around who believe that these are typical vaccines, the ones we’ve all been getting since childhood. It was at that point I realised that nothing that came out of this guy’s mouth would be worth listening to since he has flawed understanding of the most basic premise.
Agreed, the 'vaccines have always been safe' concept only continues to hold true, if and only if all new ones are held to the safety standards of past cases. If it takes 10 years of development and testing to bring a typical vaccine to market, then what does that say about any vaccine rushed to market in less than a year? By definition, its unfit for use, since that time-to-market demonstrates a crazy number of corners being cut, tests not being done, and QA, certifications etc being abandoned.
And thats even before you start looking at the never used before mRNA stuff that the new vaccines have. Why sneak in a 1) entirely untested and 2) brand new and unproven tech in the middle of a crisis (that you pretend is still the currently understood 'vaccine' case) unless you were a malicious actor? The lack of honesty is damning.
Be great if that happened - to my knowledge it hasn't happened yet, and they are trying this silly legal maneuver in creating a brand new company, blaming the new company (instead of J&J) as the guilty party, then that new company goes bankrupt instead of them.
Details:
https://greatawakening.win/p/12jJs4CK6C/trust-the-science-you-say--johns/c/
They surely should be bankrupt, and I hope this effort by them to dodge blame is all for naught.
This exactly. The disinformation war has been professionally executed with virtually unlimited resources. You can go crazy trying to counter that persuasion and intense social pressure. Save your energy to protect your wife and children.
I agree but it's difficult when you believe your family will be dead and you could have stopped it. I've accepted the fact that I will lose my brother before his time but I'm sad my kids won't have an uncle.
I know my parents are a lost cause. Brainwashed boomers believing everything the MSM pumps out. I just pray for them. There are no words I can say to wake them so I leave it in Jesus' great hands.
Fren, I have found that asking clarifying questions gets through way easier than coming at them with inconvenient facts.
"How do you feel about being told masks don't work so get the jab - now you're told the jab doesn't work as well so put your mask back on?" "How is the price of gas, rising over $1.00 a gallon in 6 months, hitting you?"
Inevitably someone will ask me, "To what end is all this being orchestrated?"
Again, a question - "Yes, to what end could it be?"
The cognitive dissonance cracks at this point. Maybe just a bit, but the answer back always has either $ or power or both, out of their own mouth.
^This