Yes! And I think more and more people are returning to God. Watched a video today that said book sales are down but Bible sales are up 21%! There's hope!
God is real, and that's one of the most important things to find out in this life. In fact, if you haven't found this out yet, you really need to. The quicker you find out, the more time you have to take advantage of the fact, and help not only improve your life, but the lives of others.
Luke 11:9-10. 9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me.
u/AngryDwarfPaladin/ answered well. I'd also add that studying to show yourself worthy is also important. But i'll also add it's not just study, but applying what you learn sincerely, taking all concerns to Him. He will show you what you need to know to get to Him as your relationship grows.
"the American Founders asserted in the Declaration was the “Law of Nature and Nature’s God.” This universal moral law served as their moral and legal basis for creating a new, self-governing nation. . . . revealed by God in two ways—in nature and in the Bible—and thus evidences the Bible’s influence in America’s founding document."
Natural Law is fundamental, and obvious without even relying on the Bible. It is inherent in Nature herself, as constituted by Nature's God. It is present in the human conscience, regardless of religion. That is the way God created the Universe and the moral law.
"Natural law (Latin: ius naturale, lex naturalis) is a system of law based on a close observation of natural order and human nature, from which values, thought by natural law's proponents to be intrinsic to human nature, can be deduced and applied independently of positive law (the express enacted laws of a state or society). According to the theory of law called jusnaturalism, all people have inherent rights, conferred not by act of legislation but by "God, nature, or reason"
The Bible expounds on the moral law that is Nature's Law. It is totally consistent. But even those who do not "believe in" the Bible, Natural Law is present to them. Except the deniers. It is from God, but it is so present in Nature that only the obtuse can deny it.
Yes, it’s there, in story form. In Genesis chapter 4 is the story of Cain and Abel, Cain being the firstborn of Adam and Eve (actually Chawah as Eve is Babylonian not Hebrew, but that's an aside, though easy to remember: “Chawah the first mama” — doesn’t rhyme, but still memorable).
Abel brought God a sacrifice, a gift, and in the Hebrew sacrifices are often celebrations with God, and in this one Abel would have been enjoying the meal as he thanked God for his blessings over the past season or year!
Cain brought God a wheat or grain offering, and God did not look upon Cain favorably.
There’s got to be more background to this story, such as possibly Cain held back from bringing the best of his farming results for the year from God, Cain could have put more effort into the sacrifice, bringing a ram or a goat and seriously celebrating the opportunity to thank God for his blessings. We don’t have the full story. But Cain’s parents must have taught him some lesson about properly showing thanks to God for blessings each season after his parents got booted from the Garden of Eden.
God’s admonition to Cain gets to your question:
Yahweh said to Cain, “Why be angry, why feel so down? If you do what is right, won’t you be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, then the desire and longing of ‘sin’ (Hebrew “chattah”) is right at your gate (to follow down this path), but you must rule over it (master it).”
This story of Cain and Abel story is set in a time before the giving of the Torah (teaching, guidance, instructions, the law) given to Moses. The setting is some time after his parents were booted from the Garden of Eden. So this is a semi-primitive theme and setting: there are no judges, priests, kings, and thankfully no attorneys. God is testing Cain’s heart, and giving Cain the opportunity to consider his nature, his inner strength and being. Cain knows he can do better, and make a good choice. If God is talking to him, Cain can let God know that he will give his best. Cain can know for the future, and in his heart choose to bring the best offering he can.for celebrations and God likes the meat, and in particular the fat from the grass-fed animals, Omega3 fatty acids….
But in verse 8, Cain chooses a dark path he knows is wrong, and kills his brother.
Did Cain know beforehand it would have been wrong to kill his brother? The story implies: “yes.”
Matthew 5:8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.” How? By choosing to pursue good things in life, and filling one’s heart with good ideas and positive virtues, a person can experience the goodness and hardships of life, and be a blessing to others, being the helping hand of God to others, and just maybe experience a miracle or two, whether big or small.
+1 because I left out the key to understanding the phrase “the laws of nature and of Nature’s God”. “Nature’s God” from the Declaration of Independence = Jefferson’s poetic allusion to natural law theory used by Jefferson as a just and acceptable theory for declaring independence.
Jefferson and Franklin held hybrid deistic/theistic views the Creator God, but in 1776, a majority of the Founders were church attending believers in God and they prayed at the Continental Congress for divine assistance. Jefferson’s use of “Nature’s God” enabled both deists and theists to feel satisfied in the appeal to God as justification for independence from the Crown.
The Signers of the Decl. of Indep., the ones who were firm believers in Christian doctrines including the miracles could, and did sign on to Jefferson’s “laws of nature and of Nature’s God” because to them, this phrase = simply a code for the idea that in a perfect state of nature, the basic principles of knowing we have a creator god and basic rules of right and wrong could be derived without reference to the Revealed Scriptures. They had no problem with Jefferson’s phrase, because Genesis chapter 4 teaches that as human beings with consciousness, we can and should learn to know and do right behavior.
In the Cain and Abel story God tells Cain that he has within him the knowledge of what is right and wrong (his parents had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), and God told Cain he should use his inner strength to conquer any desire to commit any wrongdoing. “Nature’s God” is an allusion to these principles, that the god of nature can be understood, and right behavior can be determined without reference to the written Scriptures. Genesis chapter 4 agrees with Jefferson.
Jefferson explained that he was not inserting in to the Decl. of Indep. a belief that he may or may not have held in a god of nature, different than say, the God of Abraham, Moses, or James the brother of Jesus (Yeshua / Yahowshua).
Jefferson explained that in 1776 he was synthesizing all the thoughts by philosophers from Aristotle to the those of the Enlightenment and telling King George III and Parliament: we’ve got natural law, all of the principles of right and wrong taught by the great philosophers on our side, and we’re on God’s side for carrying out justice for the people we represent. We’ve got all this stacked up against you. Here’s an article that references Jefferson’s 1825 letter explaining what he was doing back in 1776 with his phrase in the Decl. of Indep. https://constitutionleadership.org/2016/06/29/the-founders-view-of-natural-law/
Summary: The western field law of and rights (and responsibilities) has a basis in Greek philosophers and the Scriptures given by God. Parliament and King George 3 asserted their positive laws (man-made laws) over the Colonies. Jefferson asserted in poetic fashion an appeal to all western legal authorities of natural law, from the Greeks to the Hebrews to the Christians whether deist or theist or hybrid theologians.
Always fun when you write a post for an hour, only to have the tab suddenly refresh.
Anyhow, as a short version, there are several scriptural indicators that could be read to imply the concept, but I’m not aware of any explicit scriptures.
However, if you test “the fruits of the spirit” and “the works of the flesh” and look at where each of those acts end a man and society, pragmatically, in combination with verses like “the gentiles will be a law unto themselves” (paraphrased), you can definitely come up with biblical support of “nature’s law”.
Can different cultures have different 'natural law' doctrines? At what level does environment effect the formation of Natural Law for a Society? Does a fisherman from Northern Europe live under the same Natural Law code as a Pirate off the coast of Somalia? Is it OK for different groups to have different understandings of Natural Law?
The United States supreme Court declared / affirmed that America is a Christian nation in the 1892 court decision named "Holy Trinity v the United States" 143 U.S. 457
Thank you for the link. I have read the entire document. It cites numerous quotes throughout the centuries that mention Christianity, in historical documents from the 1600s and in documents of individual states, but the Supreme Court opinion itself limited itself to saying that “this is a religious nation.” It certainly made clear that it would be inappropriate to legislate against Christian religious bodies, but it stopped short of declaring the United States a Christian nation.
In actuality, the United States federal government was founded by masonic deists who have gone to great lengths to blur the important distinction between their false religion and Christianity. The Supreme Court opinion tiptoes around this fact. I’m glad they defended Christianity as they did, and the citations they quoted, but they couldn’t directly declare the nation to be Christian, because that’s absolutely not the case.
I think its very valuable to reflect on the nature of the founding of America (the United States) in the context of the development of Christian civilization and human history as a whole.
Although there is a strong tendency among fundamentalist believers to think only in terms of the supernatural, I think the more powerful perspective unites the two aspects of God's divine creation - spirit and flesh.
The dual, complementary aspects of internal (spiritual) and external (physical) are core to the principles of God's creation. God created his children, not only as male and female, but also having spirit and flesh. However, at the time of the Fall, both of these were claimed and usurped by the fallen angel, who became Satan.
Historically, then, Satan had the upper hand, the dominion over both humanity's spirit and humanity's flesh. The first major step by God towards removing this dominion and restoring all humanity back to him (which was our original position) was the establishment of Israel as a chosen people who united with God on the level of the Law (God's work in that first stage).
During the time of Moses, the Israelites established a form of self-governance under God's word, although later this transformed in to a monarchy before its time. (My personal belief is that God wanted no Monarchy until the arrival of Christ, when the true and model monarchy would be established, contrasting with the satanic versions of monarchy that humanity developed under the fallen archangel..)
Because Satan dominated both spirit and flesh, these were set into a relationship of conflict and division, instead of being united centered on God. The Law was the first stage in resolving that conflict, by tempering the flesh through practice of the Law.
It's significant that at the time of the Victory of the cross, the curtain dividing the holy place (symbolizing the flesh) and the holiest of holies (symbolizing the spirit) in the Temple was torn, signifying that Jesus had conquered the barrier and the division between spirit and flesh.
However, as Christ was compelled to sacrifice his flesh as the price for salvation of a faithless humanity, the door to spiritual salvation was opened, but Satan was still left with jurisdiction over the flesh.
(There are many logical reasons to say that the Cross only became necessary because of the faithlessness of the Jews, those people who SHOULD have received and welcomed Christ. We must consider the fact that Jesus could forgive sins BEFORE the Crucifixion. So if real faith had been accomplished by the then chosen people, would there be any reason they could not receive salvation by believing in Jesus and thereby receive the Holy Spirit?)
God's ideal on this world is a restoration of both spirit and flesh back to their original position as God's manifestation through humanity, free from the shackles of satanic influence. The history of Christianity progressively developed the foundation of the disciples under Jesus to bring better and better forms of governance more in line with God's purpose for humanity, which is self-governance under God in unity with God's principles and vision for humanity.
The conflict between spirit and flesh also manifested as a conflict between brothers: Cain the elder, and Abel, the younger. Just as spirit and flesh need to be reunited under God, the Cain-Abel problem needs to be resolved with the elder ("Cain") accepting and uniting with the younger ("Abel") who is in a position to lead his elder brother to God.
In the realm of philosophy, Cain-like philosophy - emphasizing humanistic thinking and the centrality of man, developed at speed during the 400 years leading up to the 20th century. Likewise, abel-type philosophy also developed, emphasizing God-centered thinking and the centrality of God.
These cain-type philosophies found culmination in Marxism, the ultimate satanic philosophy that denies the existence of God and delivers slavery and death while promising equality and freedom.
The Abel-type philosophies developed through the original Great Awakenings (first half of the 1700's) eventually creating the philosophical foundations for the United States, which is the pinnacle of God-centered governance (self-governance under God and faithful practice).
In my view, the United States is the precursor of God's Kingdom on Earth. It is the practice of self-governance as per God's vision, but the linchpin is unity with God and God's purpose. Without that, the self-governance devolves in to what we see today in humanistic, satanic wokism that denies God and raises the position of human beings to 'gods' in themselves, unbound by moral responsibility or universal principles.
Looking at the development of governance systems under God's providence - the Israelites > Christianity : Patriarchs > Kings > constitutional governance based on Godly principles, we should be able to logically understand that The Kingdom on earth under Christ is one where Christ is king, but that the heavenly Model of "king" is vastly different from the satanic model.
Under God and Christ, human beings will still be responsible for self-governance. We will still have to govern ourselves, but our capacity for self-governance will be elevated beyond the standard of the founding of the United States, where unfortunately the flesh is still subject to Satan's influence even though the spirit seeks to unite perfectly with Christ, to a standard where the flesh and spirit are both united under Christ, and so a truly Christ-like system of self-governance (including freedom) is created where Christ-like principles are enacted on all levels, from the individual and family to the nation and beyond.
The revolution underway in the world today is the collapse of the Satanic power structure that has dominated humanity since the fall, and which continued the last 2000 years, only held in check by religion and most centrally, by faithful Christianity. Is it a coincidence that the "biblical years" from Adam to Abraham is 2000 by count, that the historical (scriptural) time from Abraham to Jesus is also 2000 years (roughly) and that today, we stand roughly 2000 years since the first advent of Christ?
I don't think so.
In this sense, Donald Trump seems to me both like Cyrus, the good King who played a key role in preserving God's then chosen people, inasmuch as he is a champion called by God and is helping restore and protect Christianity in the world today (God's chosen people in the current era), but also in some ways like Charlemagne, the founder of the Holy Roman Empire.
Donald Trump is not a king, but he symbolizes the authority of a kingly God, working to save his people and protect them from evil satanic attack. On the foundation God has build in the world today, the United States finally has the opportunity to fulfill the promise of being that model that the world can rally around, in preparation for the final arrival of the Kingdom.
This is why the USA was founded on the Christian spirit and faith, and why it is so critical that the pure spirit of Christian faith (beyond theology or doctrine) remains central to American culture and vision.
(I acknowledge that some will disagree with me on various points, based on their own theological understanding. That's natural. No one knows or understands God's truth perfectly, so it is important that we learn to listen to each other and learn from others even if they do not share our perspective. It's the only way to truly develop our collective grasp of God's truth and purpose for us as a people.)
If the politicians running the government believed in God they would act accordingly. God speaks many times of equality in Justice, a fair set of balances and accurate weights in commerce. The one command I read that eludes most politicians is, Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
I didn't know a lot of the answers. We don't learn these things in school and we should. Leave it to a Canuck to inform us. Thanks, that was enlightening.
America has always fascinated me. I've always lived near the border, I used to be so amazed at the amount of patriotism you guys had with the flags on the houses. I'm a Civil War history fan. In school here, we used to learn more of your history than our own. I feel more like an American than a Canadian in many ways but don't let Canada fool you... we are extremely patriotic too, we're just a little too laid back on our rights... but when the shit hits the fan we'll be there, as most the world learned during WW1 and 2. At least as long as our kids aren't too brainwashed by the libs.... the same thing you guys are going through but to a lesser degree
Highly suggest wallbuilders on youtube for more info on our country. The men have original papers, books, artifacts etc. From our founding and is so knowledgeable!
Sounds like you are looking for future fulfillment of something that already happened.
The Pax Romana ("Roman Peace") refers to a period of relative peace and stability across the Roman Empire, lasting roughly from 27 BC to 180 AD, initiated under Emperor Augustus. During this time, Rome established control over vast territories and ensured stability through its military might and governance. This period facilitated economic prosperity, cultural exchange, and the spread of ideas, including Christianity.
The Antichrist is described in Scripture (e.g., Daniel 9:27; 1 Thessalonians 5:3) as a figure who will bring a deceptive peace to the world before breaking it and ushering in chaos and persecution.
Well Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus was the Roman emperor in 70 AD, who like all Caesars, demanded worship above all gods, decided to destroy Jerusalem and the temple.
Read your Bible more.... along with history.
Don't get your eschatology from "left behind" books and Darbyism. That shit is only 200 years old and not what Christians traditionally believed for about 1800 years.
Agreed on your final point, but the existence of anti-Christian figures in history does not at all mean that we have already gotten through the period of antichrist. People who read their Bibles, know history, and aren’t duped by e.g. the chiliastic heresy can see that plainly.
Lol that's not what the Bible says. Jesus's victory on the cross is all encompassing.
God said to Jesus "ask of me and I will give all the nations to you as your inheritance“ Do you really think that Jesus forgot to ask? Seriously?
God's fav Bible verse That appears more times in scripture than any other is "sit in my right hand while I make all of the enemies your footstool"
He is reigning. Christ is king.
Your view of the end times is a lie interjected by the enemy because no one polishes brass on a sinking ship. If you think you're gonna be yeeted up into heaven when things get bad you're not taking Dominion. You're not thinking 2+ generations ahead. You're effectively neutered. Right where the enemy wants you.
"Nero Caesar" written in Hebrew letters which are also numbers = 666. His image was on all the coins of the land which you needed to buy or sell. He was also killing Christians that wouldn't say "Kaiser curios" (Caesar is Lord) And he was dressing up an animal skins and mauling Christians to death.
You looking for future fulfillment of things that have already happened is something that only became popular with the publication of the Schofield reference Bible that spread this end times view of darbyism or premillennial dispensationalism throughout The modern Church.
It's not what Christians believed for 1800 years.
IMO the whole rapture and room outlook is the greatest slide the devil ever interjected into the church. No one polishes brass on a sinking ship.
You know what the Bible teaches? Jesus is seated at the right hand of the father making all of his enemies his foot stool and as to the expansion of his kingdom there should be no end.
It also teaches us That in the last days before final judgment that it will be like in the days of Noah. Obviously the ark is symbolic of Christ So those that are in Christ will remain while the wicked are swept off the earth (this time with fire) Just like the parable of the wheat and the tares.
Trump being the false prophet makes no sense. I believe the false prophet would be a religious figure. I can see Musk creating the technology that could create the mark but I don't see that as something he will intentionally seek out to do.
Also from your earlier comment, Trump can't be the Antichrist either because the media has made him into such a polarizing figure. If your honest, you would know the media will make the Antichrist a beloved or at the very least a noncontroversial figure.Do you really think the countries of the world would put Trump in charge of a one world government??? Not to mention his age. The Antichrist will most likely be someone much younger and noncontroversial. Plus Trump's peace deals will most likely last through his term and everyone will start fighting again.
It's always been GOD and country. Thats what the constitution is based on. It's NOT government control and laws.
Yes! And I think more and more people are returning to God. Watched a video today that said book sales are down but Bible sales are up 21%! There's hope!
Winning!
lol “If God is for us, who can be against us?”
Exactly
God is real, and that's one of the most important things to find out in this life. In fact, if you haven't found this out yet, you really need to. The quicker you find out, the more time you have to take advantage of the fact, and help not only improve your life, but the lives of others.
How does someone find out ?
Pray and earnestly ask him to show you He's real.
Luke 11:9-10. 9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me.
u/AngryDwarfPaladin/ answered well. I'd also add that studying to show yourself worthy is also important. But i'll also add it's not just study, but applying what you learn sincerely, taking all concerns to Him. He will show you what you need to know to get to Him as your relationship grows.
Thank you
Amen
"the American Founders asserted in the Declaration was the “Law of Nature and Nature’s God.” This universal moral law served as their moral and legal basis for creating a new, self-governing nation. . . . revealed by God in two ways—in nature and in the Bible—and thus evidences the Bible’s influence in America’s founding document."
https://americanheritage.org/the-law-of-nature-and-natures-god-one-moral-law-revealed-two-ways/
Are the concepts of Natural Law and Nature's God in the bible?
Natural Law is fundamental, and obvious without even relying on the Bible. It is inherent in Nature herself, as constituted by Nature's God. It is present in the human conscience, regardless of religion. That is the way God created the Universe and the moral law.
"Natural law (Latin: ius naturale, lex naturalis) is a system of law based on a close observation of natural order and human nature, from which values, thought by natural law's proponents to be intrinsic to human nature, can be deduced and applied independently of positive law (the express enacted laws of a state or society). According to the theory of law called jusnaturalism, all people have inherent rights, conferred not by act of legislation but by "God, nature, or reason"
The Bible expounds on the moral law that is Nature's Law. It is totally consistent. But even those who do not "believe in" the Bible, Natural Law is present to them. Except the deniers. It is from God, but it is so present in Nature that only the obtuse can deny it.
So do they actually talk about it in the bible or are people just...making that up? Sounds like Nature and Nature's God are not actually in the bible.
Yes, it’s there, in story form. In Genesis chapter 4 is the story of Cain and Abel, Cain being the firstborn of Adam and Eve (actually Chawah as Eve is Babylonian not Hebrew, but that's an aside, though easy to remember: “Chawah the first mama” — doesn’t rhyme, but still memorable).
Abel brought God a sacrifice, a gift, and in the Hebrew sacrifices are often celebrations with God, and in this one Abel would have been enjoying the meal as he thanked God for his blessings over the past season or year!
Cain brought God a wheat or grain offering, and God did not look upon Cain favorably.
There’s got to be more background to this story, such as possibly Cain held back from bringing the best of his farming results for the year from God, Cain could have put more effort into the sacrifice, bringing a ram or a goat and seriously celebrating the opportunity to thank God for his blessings. We don’t have the full story. But Cain’s parents must have taught him some lesson about properly showing thanks to God for blessings each season after his parents got booted from the Garden of Eden.
God’s admonition to Cain gets to your question: Yahweh said to Cain, “Why be angry, why feel so down? If you do what is right, won’t you be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, then the desire and longing of ‘sin’ (Hebrew “chattah”) is right at your gate (to follow down this path), but you must rule over it (master it).”
This story of Cain and Abel story is set in a time before the giving of the Torah (teaching, guidance, instructions, the law) given to Moses. The setting is some time after his parents were booted from the Garden of Eden. So this is a semi-primitive theme and setting: there are no judges, priests, kings, and thankfully no attorneys. God is testing Cain’s heart, and giving Cain the opportunity to consider his nature, his inner strength and being. Cain knows he can do better, and make a good choice. If God is talking to him, Cain can let God know that he will give his best. Cain can know for the future, and in his heart choose to bring the best offering he can.for celebrations and God likes the meat, and in particular the fat from the grass-fed animals, Omega3 fatty acids….
But in verse 8, Cain chooses a dark path he knows is wrong, and kills his brother.
Did Cain know beforehand it would have been wrong to kill his brother? The story implies: “yes.”
Matthew 5:8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.” How? By choosing to pursue good things in life, and filling one’s heart with good ideas and positive virtues, a person can experience the goodness and hardships of life, and be a blessing to others, being the helping hand of God to others, and just maybe experience a miracle or two, whether big or small.
Sorry, I don't see how any bit of what you wrote relates to the question. It's not "God's nature." It's 'Nature's God.'
+1 because I left out the key to understanding the phrase “the laws of nature and of Nature’s God”. “Nature’s God” from the Declaration of Independence = Jefferson’s poetic allusion to natural law theory used by Jefferson as a just and acceptable theory for declaring independence.
Jefferson and Franklin held hybrid deistic/theistic views the Creator God, but in 1776, a majority of the Founders were church attending believers in God and they prayed at the Continental Congress for divine assistance. Jefferson’s use of “Nature’s God” enabled both deists and theists to feel satisfied in the appeal to God as justification for independence from the Crown.
The Signers of the Decl. of Indep., the ones who were firm believers in Christian doctrines including the miracles could, and did sign on to Jefferson’s “laws of nature and of Nature’s God” because to them, this phrase = simply a code for the idea that in a perfect state of nature, the basic principles of knowing we have a creator god and basic rules of right and wrong could be derived without reference to the Revealed Scriptures. They had no problem with Jefferson’s phrase, because Genesis chapter 4 teaches that as human beings with consciousness, we can and should learn to know and do right behavior.
In the Cain and Abel story God tells Cain that he has within him the knowledge of what is right and wrong (his parents had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), and God told Cain he should use his inner strength to conquer any desire to commit any wrongdoing. “Nature’s God” is an allusion to these principles, that the god of nature can be understood, and right behavior can be determined without reference to the written Scriptures. Genesis chapter 4 agrees with Jefferson.
Jefferson explained that he was not inserting in to the Decl. of Indep. a belief that he may or may not have held in a god of nature, different than say, the God of Abraham, Moses, or James the brother of Jesus (Yeshua / Yahowshua).
Jefferson explained that in 1776 he was synthesizing all the thoughts by philosophers from Aristotle to the those of the Enlightenment and telling King George III and Parliament: we’ve got natural law, all of the principles of right and wrong taught by the great philosophers on our side, and we’re on God’s side for carrying out justice for the people we represent. We’ve got all this stacked up against you. Here’s an article that references Jefferson’s 1825 letter explaining what he was doing back in 1776 with his phrase in the Decl. of Indep. https://constitutionleadership.org/2016/06/29/the-founders-view-of-natural-law/
Here’s Jefferson’s full letter. https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/98-01-02-5212
Summary: The western field law of and rights (and responsibilities) has a basis in Greek philosophers and the Scriptures given by God. Parliament and King George 3 asserted their positive laws (man-made laws) over the Colonies. Jefferson asserted in poetic fashion an appeal to all western legal authorities of natural law, from the Greeks to the Hebrews to the Christians whether deist or theist or hybrid theologians.
Thank you for your thoughts on this.
Always fun when you write a post for an hour, only to have the tab suddenly refresh.
Anyhow, as a short version, there are several scriptural indicators that could be read to imply the concept, but I’m not aware of any explicit scriptures.
However, if you test “the fruits of the spirit” and “the works of the flesh” and look at where each of those acts end a man and society, pragmatically, in combination with verses like “the gentiles will be a law unto themselves” (paraphrased), you can definitely come up with biblical support of “nature’s law”.
Can different cultures have different 'natural law' doctrines? At what level does environment effect the formation of Natural Law for a Society? Does a fisherman from Northern Europe live under the same Natural Law code as a Pirate off the coast of Somalia? Is it OK for different groups to have different understandings of Natural Law?
Yes for both. Read the Book of Romans starting at chapter 1 through to chapter 8.
Give a brief explanation.
Awesome! Thanks.
Fun fact that liberals HATE when you show them:
The United States supreme Court declared / affirmed that America is a Christian nation in the 1892 court decision named "Holy Trinity v the United States" 143 U.S. 457
https://www.loc.gov/item/usrep143457/
Cool. Didn't know that.
Thank you for the link. I have read the entire document. It cites numerous quotes throughout the centuries that mention Christianity, in historical documents from the 1600s and in documents of individual states, but the Supreme Court opinion itself limited itself to saying that “this is a religious nation.” It certainly made clear that it would be inappropriate to legislate against Christian religious bodies, but it stopped short of declaring the United States a Christian nation.
In actuality, the United States federal government was founded by masonic deists who have gone to great lengths to blur the important distinction between their false religion and Christianity. The Supreme Court opinion tiptoes around this fact. I’m glad they defended Christianity as they did, and the citations they quoted, but they couldn’t directly declare the nation to be Christian, because that’s absolutely not the case.
Indeed, the Great Awakening of their day preceded the American Revolution.
Thought that was cool!
I think its very valuable to reflect on the nature of the founding of America (the United States) in the context of the development of Christian civilization and human history as a whole.
Although there is a strong tendency among fundamentalist believers to think only in terms of the supernatural, I think the more powerful perspective unites the two aspects of God's divine creation - spirit and flesh.
The dual, complementary aspects of internal (spiritual) and external (physical) are core to the principles of God's creation. God created his children, not only as male and female, but also having spirit and flesh. However, at the time of the Fall, both of these were claimed and usurped by the fallen angel, who became Satan.
Historically, then, Satan had the upper hand, the dominion over both humanity's spirit and humanity's flesh. The first major step by God towards removing this dominion and restoring all humanity back to him (which was our original position) was the establishment of Israel as a chosen people who united with God on the level of the Law (God's work in that first stage).
During the time of Moses, the Israelites established a form of self-governance under God's word, although later this transformed in to a monarchy before its time. (My personal belief is that God wanted no Monarchy until the arrival of Christ, when the true and model monarchy would be established, contrasting with the satanic versions of monarchy that humanity developed under the fallen archangel..)
Because Satan dominated both spirit and flesh, these were set into a relationship of conflict and division, instead of being united centered on God. The Law was the first stage in resolving that conflict, by tempering the flesh through practice of the Law.
It's significant that at the time of the Victory of the cross, the curtain dividing the holy place (symbolizing the flesh) and the holiest of holies (symbolizing the spirit) in the Temple was torn, signifying that Jesus had conquered the barrier and the division between spirit and flesh.
However, as Christ was compelled to sacrifice his flesh as the price for salvation of a faithless humanity, the door to spiritual salvation was opened, but Satan was still left with jurisdiction over the flesh.
(There are many logical reasons to say that the Cross only became necessary because of the faithlessness of the Jews, those people who SHOULD have received and welcomed Christ. We must consider the fact that Jesus could forgive sins BEFORE the Crucifixion. So if real faith had been accomplished by the then chosen people, would there be any reason they could not receive salvation by believing in Jesus and thereby receive the Holy Spirit?)
God's ideal on this world is a restoration of both spirit and flesh back to their original position as God's manifestation through humanity, free from the shackles of satanic influence. The history of Christianity progressively developed the foundation of the disciples under Jesus to bring better and better forms of governance more in line with God's purpose for humanity, which is self-governance under God in unity with God's principles and vision for humanity.
The conflict between spirit and flesh also manifested as a conflict between brothers: Cain the elder, and Abel, the younger. Just as spirit and flesh need to be reunited under God, the Cain-Abel problem needs to be resolved with the elder ("Cain") accepting and uniting with the younger ("Abel") who is in a position to lead his elder brother to God.
In the realm of philosophy, Cain-like philosophy - emphasizing humanistic thinking and the centrality of man, developed at speed during the 400 years leading up to the 20th century. Likewise, abel-type philosophy also developed, emphasizing God-centered thinking and the centrality of God.
These cain-type philosophies found culmination in Marxism, the ultimate satanic philosophy that denies the existence of God and delivers slavery and death while promising equality and freedom.
The Abel-type philosophies developed through the original Great Awakenings (first half of the 1700's) eventually creating the philosophical foundations for the United States, which is the pinnacle of God-centered governance (self-governance under God and faithful practice).
In my view, the United States is the precursor of God's Kingdom on Earth. It is the practice of self-governance as per God's vision, but the linchpin is unity with God and God's purpose. Without that, the self-governance devolves in to what we see today in humanistic, satanic wokism that denies God and raises the position of human beings to 'gods' in themselves, unbound by moral responsibility or universal principles.
Looking at the development of governance systems under God's providence - the Israelites > Christianity : Patriarchs > Kings > constitutional governance based on Godly principles, we should be able to logically understand that The Kingdom on earth under Christ is one where Christ is king, but that the heavenly Model of "king" is vastly different from the satanic model.
Under God and Christ, human beings will still be responsible for self-governance. We will still have to govern ourselves, but our capacity for self-governance will be elevated beyond the standard of the founding of the United States, where unfortunately the flesh is still subject to Satan's influence even though the spirit seeks to unite perfectly with Christ, to a standard where the flesh and spirit are both united under Christ, and so a truly Christ-like system of self-governance (including freedom) is created where Christ-like principles are enacted on all levels, from the individual and family to the nation and beyond.
The revolution underway in the world today is the collapse of the Satanic power structure that has dominated humanity since the fall, and which continued the last 2000 years, only held in check by religion and most centrally, by faithful Christianity. Is it a coincidence that the "biblical years" from Adam to Abraham is 2000 by count, that the historical (scriptural) time from Abraham to Jesus is also 2000 years (roughly) and that today, we stand roughly 2000 years since the first advent of Christ?
I don't think so.
In this sense, Donald Trump seems to me both like Cyrus, the good King who played a key role in preserving God's then chosen people, inasmuch as he is a champion called by God and is helping restore and protect Christianity in the world today (God's chosen people in the current era), but also in some ways like Charlemagne, the founder of the Holy Roman Empire.
Donald Trump is not a king, but he symbolizes the authority of a kingly God, working to save his people and protect them from evil satanic attack. On the foundation God has build in the world today, the United States finally has the opportunity to fulfill the promise of being that model that the world can rally around, in preparation for the final arrival of the Kingdom.
This is why the USA was founded on the Christian spirit and faith, and why it is so critical that the pure spirit of Christian faith (beyond theology or doctrine) remains central to American culture and vision.
(I acknowledge that some will disagree with me on various points, based on their own theological understanding. That's natural. No one knows or understands God's truth perfectly, so it is important that we learn to listen to each other and learn from others even if they do not share our perspective. It's the only way to truly develop our collective grasp of God's truth and purpose for us as a people.)
You've done some thinking. I like that. Funny you mention Cyrus, i've had the same feeling since 2016.
If the politicians running the government believed in God they would act accordingly. God speaks many times of equality in Justice, a fair set of balances and accurate weights in commerce. The one command I read that eludes most politicians is, Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
Hard to fear when you think you're God...
They will have a rude awakening!
yes, i agree. But they need it.
I didn't know a lot of the answers. We don't learn these things in school and we should. Leave it to a Canuck to inform us. Thanks, that was enlightening.
America has always fascinated me. I've always lived near the border, I used to be so amazed at the amount of patriotism you guys had with the flags on the houses. I'm a Civil War history fan. In school here, we used to learn more of your history than our own. I feel more like an American than a Canadian in many ways but don't let Canada fool you... we are extremely patriotic too, we're just a little too laid back on our rights... but when the shit hits the fan we'll be there, as most the world learned during WW1 and 2. At least as long as our kids aren't too brainwashed by the libs.... the same thing you guys are going through but to a lesser degree
lol . I did know some but probably no more than you. You're giving me too much credit!
Highly suggest wallbuilders on youtube for more info on our country. The men have original papers, books, artifacts etc. From our founding and is so knowledgeable!
Thanks. Never heard of them.
Historian David Barton put together a nice video series teaching this and showing the documentation.
Yes, I found that interesting too. And I like the word covenant. Has soft spiritual kind of feeling
Theology guy here:
Sounds like you are looking for future fulfillment of something that already happened.
The Pax Romana ("Roman Peace") refers to a period of relative peace and stability across the Roman Empire, lasting roughly from 27 BC to 180 AD, initiated under Emperor Augustus. During this time, Rome established control over vast territories and ensured stability through its military might and governance. This period facilitated economic prosperity, cultural exchange, and the spread of ideas, including Christianity.
The Antichrist is described in Scripture (e.g., Daniel 9:27; 1 Thessalonians 5:3) as a figure who will bring a deceptive peace to the world before breaking it and ushering in chaos and persecution.
Well Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus was the Roman emperor in 70 AD, who like all Caesars, demanded worship above all gods, decided to destroy Jerusalem and the temple.
Read your Bible more.... along with history.
Don't get your eschatology from "left behind" books and Darbyism. That shit is only 200 years old and not what Christians traditionally believed for about 1800 years.
Agreed on your final point, but the existence of anti-Christian figures in history does not at all mean that we have already gotten through the period of antichrist. People who read their Bibles, know history, and aren’t duped by e.g. the chiliastic heresy can see that plainly.
Seeing future fulfillment of Daniel and the book of Revelation only became popular with the publication of the Schofield reference Bible.
But since you're so versed in history I'm sure you knew that.
I'm sure you also know that having differing eschatological viewpoints isn't in the category of heresy as well.
I’m an Orthodox Christian and posted from that perspective. In the Orthodox Church the belief in chiliasm is formally denounced as heresy.
Cool. I'm talking about classical post-millennialism.
I reject chiliasm too.
The Orthodox Church does not consider post-millennialism heretical.
Trump has been very clear that Jesus Christ is greater than him. That’s not what the antichrist will say.
Lol that's not what the Bible says. Jesus's victory on the cross is all encompassing.
God said to Jesus "ask of me and I will give all the nations to you as your inheritance“ Do you really think that Jesus forgot to ask? Seriously?
God's fav Bible verse That appears more times in scripture than any other is "sit in my right hand while I make all of the enemies your footstool"
He is reigning. Christ is king.
Your view of the end times is a lie interjected by the enemy because no one polishes brass on a sinking ship. If you think you're gonna be yeeted up into heaven when things get bad you're not taking Dominion. You're not thinking 2+ generations ahead. You're effectively neutered. Right where the enemy wants you.
Jesus Christ is God, the second Person of the Holy Trinity.
Yeah and the sky is blue.
Sorry, are we both saying things the other agrees with now?
I'm more than a little bit familiar with the triune godhead and nothing that I said above remotely called into question the Trinity.
That's a classic heretical believe of gnosticism.
The church has already rejected that.
You need Just sit down with your pastor or elders.
"Nero Caesar" written in Hebrew letters which are also numbers = 666. His image was on all the coins of the land which you needed to buy or sell. He was also killing Christians that wouldn't say "Kaiser curios" (Caesar is Lord) And he was dressing up an animal skins and mauling Christians to death.
You looking for future fulfillment of things that have already happened is something that only became popular with the publication of the Schofield reference Bible that spread this end times view of darbyism or premillennial dispensationalism throughout The modern Church.
It's not what Christians believed for 1800 years.
IMO the whole rapture and room outlook is the greatest slide the devil ever interjected into the church. No one polishes brass on a sinking ship.
You know what the Bible teaches? Jesus is seated at the right hand of the father making all of his enemies his foot stool and as to the expansion of his kingdom there should be no end.
It also teaches us That in the last days before final judgment that it will be like in the days of Noah. Obviously the ark is symbolic of Christ So those that are in Christ will remain while the wicked are swept off the earth (this time with fire) Just like the parable of the wheat and the tares.
God wins.
Trump being the false prophet makes no sense. I believe the false prophet would be a religious figure. I can see Musk creating the technology that could create the mark but I don't see that as something he will intentionally seek out to do. Also from your earlier comment, Trump can't be the Antichrist either because the media has made him into such a polarizing figure. If your honest, you would know the media will make the Antichrist a beloved or at the very least a noncontroversial figure.Do you really think the countries of the world would put Trump in charge of a one world government??? Not to mention his age. The Antichrist will most likely be someone much younger and noncontroversial. Plus Trump's peace deals will most likely last through his term and everyone will start fighting again.