Pretty reasonable considering a large part of this operation was because nato kept encroaching so the last thing you'd want is to stop the war and have nato continuing to arm, and fortify the country that they shouldn't have been doing in the first place.
Funny that's what many who are super awake been saying from the start of the War.. do not give Ukraine money or weapon. Leave NATO. That was all it took. Rocket science..
is Russia going to be able to keep the region of Ukraine that wants to be part of Russia? those people in that region have been through hell and back, before the war even started.
I hope Russia will be able to keep those regions as it's the voice of the locals there begging to join Russia.They can even vote on it and without cheating Russia would win 100%.
I’m curious where people get the idea that the residents of those regions want to be part of Russia. Is it from the same kind of fake news we all claim to despise?
It’s similar to how, in the U.S., there are people in places like California (and elsewhere) who might want to dismantle our country or believe we’d be better off belonging to another nation. And just like we say here: if you think somewhere else is better, then move there.
My wife and two children were born just a few miles south of one of the contested regions. From my perspective, the only people who want to be part of Russia are the Russians who moved into the area and tried to take over.
I believe this war is exactly what most of us think it is: a corrupt operation. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are regular, patriotic people in Ukraine who want nothing to do with the corruption, the war, or Russia. Just like here, the majority of people there simply want to live in peace and move on with their lives.
Anyone can downvote if they would like, don't take my comments the wrong way. I don't support any weapons transfers, ect and I believe in the biolabs, but what about all of the citizens that want their independence from Russia? None of the news ever talks about what the people want.
I'll dismantle your argument piece by piece, but I'd like to start with this one:
My wife and two children were born just a few miles south of one of the contested regions.
Never trust a Ukranian woman when it comes to politics. They are very emotional and can never give you the full picture of the situation.
In case if you haven't paid attention to social media or just plain old MSM, Ukraine has some of the most entitled people in the world. The reason for it is very simple. Historically everything was handed down to them. They never had to fight for anything.
Their country? Made up by Lenin and given free lands by Stalin and Khrushchev. During the USSR they were the biggest recipients of welfare out of any soviet SSR. So much so that during the dissolution of the said USSR, the proponents were arguing that Russia would immediately be prosperous because they would stop subsidizing Ukraine.
Just as FYI, during the dissolution of the USSR, Ukraine had a GDP similar to France. In 2022, before the war started it was the poorest country in Europe, all of that despite having their industry built up by soviets(Russians in reailty) to the tune of nuclear power plants, coals mines, hydroplants, coal plants. They also have some of the most fertile lands in the world, and yet most of their domestic foods were imported.
In 30+ years of independence, Ukraine became the most corrupt country in Europe, beating out little agrarian Moldova. They had 30+ years to modernize their country and bring it up to western standards. Instead they spent these 30 years doing indentity politics(the national kind), while their oligarch were siphoning trillions overseas.
And who is to blame for all of this? Russia of course
Ukraine doesn't know how to be an independnt country. Their entire existence they were occupied by either Poland or Russia. That's why they are looking to join the EU and NATO. When you are a slave, slavery feels like the norm.
I’m curious where people get the idea that the residents of those regions want to be part of Russia. Is it from the same kind of fake news we all claim to despise?
The fake news echos your talking points. If we listen to the fake news, Crimea wants to return to Ukranine too.(you know despite the fact that it tried to secede in 3 separate occassions in the 1990's and rejoin Russia.)
From my perspective, the only people who want to be part of Russia are the Russians who moved into the area and tried to take over.
That's bold faced lie. Unless of course you mean, the Russian that colonized eastern Ukraine after the mongols got kicked out back in 1600's. That area became known as Novorossia(New Russia).
Here is a map of how they voted before the civil war started. Notice anything? All of the military opeations are currently going in on in the areas that have 70% support for Yanukovich.(which was a democratically elected pro-Russian President)
It’s similar to how, in the U.S., there are people in places like California (and elsewhere) who might want to dismantle our country or believe we’d be better off belonging to another nation
The situation is more akin to Texas before it joined the Union. Imagine if the US had to fight off a Mexico that was bankrolled by all the European empires for Texas. That's basically what's going on in Ukraine.
But that doesn’t change the fact that there are regular, patriotic people in Ukraine who want nothing to do with the corruption, the war, or Russia.
I really laughed at this one because it's a typical Ukrainian talking point.
Muh brave Ukranians vs the corrupt Russians.
In reality these brave Ukranians fled en masse abroad. I went home last summer(I'm from eastern Europe too) and all my country is overun by these "brave Ukranians". Military aged men that live on the welfare of my country and tell me how brave they are. You can't make it up. And it's not just my country, all of western Europe is fed up with this shit as well.
They literally pay their drafting officers so they wouldn't be sent to the front lines. There are countless videos of Ukranian men being kidnapped off the streets and forced to join the military.
As someone said: Russia is paying their soliders to go to the front lines while the Ukranian soldiers pay to be taken off the front line.
And there is your corrupt Russia vs noble Ukraine in a nutshel.
Thank you fren for writing all this so I don't have to :).
"ukraine" is not a country. Who names their country "Border region". Nobody. It's always been part of Russia. Besides the western part that was part of Austria-Hungary. And that part is where the hardcore nazis come from, where bandera came from.
FFS, Odessa was founded by Catherine the Great, Tzarina of Russia.
In April 2014, the Russian-backed rebels in Donetsk and Luhansk proclaimed the creation of "people's republics" and months later held a popular and unrecognized referendum to declare independence from Ukraine in an effort to become part of Russia, experts said.
are you going to tell me that Ukrainian nazi's weren't going into these two areas for years, raping and murdering these people because they were wanting to return to Russia?
i read the Russians didn't move into that area, they were already there when Ukraine took it.
For ONE, I don’t believe you are living in this area because you obviously have no knowledge of the history.
And TWO - When the SMO started backing February 2022, there were two reasons why president Putin entered Ukraine. To DEmilitarise and DEnazify Ukraine.
Not long after the start of the SMO, the Russian speaking people in the Donbas - Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia oblasts were asked if they wanted a referendum to join Russia. These were Russians caught on the wrong side of a border. With the dividing up of the Soviet Union around 1990, these Russian speaking areas came under Ukraine. The result was overwhelmingly yes with 89+ % wanting to come under the protective wings of Russia - after all, they were Russian. After the referendum they lined up to receive their Russian passports, an internet and phone card. Most had lost everything and it was a very dangerous time and people lining up to wait to vote became targets and some were killed and wounded.
While you say the Ukrainians are peace loving, many, in fact a great number are to this day Nazis. They are Banderites who followed Stephan Bandera. He’s long dead but many of the captured Ukraine fighters display nazi symbols and many have his face on their bodies. I’ve seen video after video - in fact classrooms of little children being taught nazi songs, taught how to do nazi salute, taught to hate Russians and Russia. What was one of the two reasons the SMO occurred? To DE Nazify Ukraine.
From 2014/2015 when the Minsk Agreements were signed up until the start of the SMO, 14,000 Russian speaking citizens living in these areas were murdered by the Ukraine Military. Speaking Russian was forbidden, the Russian Orthodox Church was shut down and many priests were jailed or worse. Churches were burned after they were looted etc. Read up on the murder of even those waiting in groups as the Russian military were evacuating them to safety into Russia, snipers from Ukraine Military were killing these people. Many children in these areas spent their childhood underground in bunkers. Those buildings that were destroyed and plastered over legacy media, were not Ukraines towns, but the bombed out regions of the Donbas. Propaganda. These people are now firmly back home in Russia and have been given brand new apartments and the area is being cleared of rubble as they are liberated. Recently, Angela Merkel revealed that the Minsk Agreements were just a ruse to move more military equipment into the area.
The whole idea was to use Ukraine as a proxy to buildup foreign military on the Russian border. To get Ukraine into NATO. Putin said he would repel any attempt to invade Russia via Ukraine. So far Ukraine have lost nearly a million fighters. The NATO/US/UK/EU thought they would just March into Russia, perform a coup - see history of Victoria Nuland with her swanning around the ME and Europe conducting coupes wherever she feels like it. They met their match with Russia. Russia has an army greater than any army on earth. This SMO has depleted much of Americas military equipment, that of the UK and the EU. They also have unknown weapons that the world hasn’t even seen. Think Sarmat and Oreshnik. Ukraine is finished. One more thing. Ukraine is known as the most corrupt country in Europe - perhaps the world. Think Biden and Burisma. There is a lot that will be revealed very soon.
Number 1 I didn't say I currently live there, I lived there years ago on and off. The last time I was there was a few weeks after the war started.
Everything that you want to post is history and you want me to believe that the elections they held were fair? My wifes parents and most in her neighborhood were going to refuse to vote but in fear of reprisals after armed guards escorted them to the voting booths. Sounds normal right?
I'm just explaining to you my first hand experience and knowledge, not what i read or saw on TV.
When wars start, especially this time in the world, kids and people aren't brave like they use to. They flee, just the same would happen here. At the same time for every person that left, there's someone standing up to fight.
Next when it comes to countries boarders, I don't care your nationality. Eastern Europe was divided up in the 90s and that it. Are you saying it's fair to start uprising because you don't like the agreed on boarders? Tough shit... Just like we say here, if you don't like it move.
Most families were split when the USSR fell, just like my wifes family. Half live in Russia and the other half in Ukraine.
I can tell you that it's not normal to live under that type of sensor-ship, and control from the government. Anyone that thinks that's okay is not normal. So before I can get past that Putin or Russia is on the Good side, I can't get past the simplest freedoms that are not given to the Russian people.
I don't doubt that our CIA meddled in their previous elections and what not... What i think you are failing to understand is Russia is not a good country and i truly don't think anyone would want to live under that kind of control. Think what you want but time will show.
I'm not going to go back and forth arguing, I was just sharing my first hand experience.
Once again, I think that we should stop supplying Ukraine, I think that most of the upper government is still corrupt, no different than Russia. I think there's alot of shady stuff going on in the country as well.
This doesn't change the fact that the citizens of Ukraine and Russia and Belarus are under severely corrupt leadership and the people want and deserve the opportunity to have some of the natural freedoms that most of the world experiences.
I don't doubt there's some Nazis in the government but are you suggesting that the people are? There's Nazis in governments all over the world, we just don't know peoples true feelings. Ukaine use to be home to the largest jewish population before WW2. The citizens don't have a problem. To me this is just an excuse used, just as the left tries to label us.
soooo very glad that you are 100% complete in the know of everything and the rest of us plebs asking a question are beneath you. if you don't like my questions, move on.
don't belittle anons asking questions. nothing about his war is in the light. it's wouldn't be the first time that Russia has had the rug jerked out from underneath them.
i thought you were crapping on me for my question. i'm sorry if i took it wrong.
something about you saying what a question, as i took it as meaning i was dumb for asking. again, i apologize that i took it the wrong way. i like for people to ask questions because not all of us are up to speed on everything and a lot of times i hesitate to ask because i see others getting slammed for asking.
yes this site has a lot of great info on many different topics. hard to keep up with everything. the one anon that replied to me was either trolling or misdirected in his answer to me and a lot of anons set him straight. so, i wasn't sure if you were ripping me as well for asking that question?
from everything i've read here, it seems that Russia keeps getting the short end of the stick that's why i was hoping they could keep the parts of Ukraine that the people who wanted to be Russian could be able to join Russia.
thanks for your great insight on this subject. have a great day.
Irrespective of all the history discussed throught this post, Ukraine would be unable to sustain any military effort without outside assistance, so they would have to give up. Possibly, Putin is suggesting that it will take Ukraine a couple of months to come to that conclusion. When that happens, the new boundaries of Ukraine would probably no longer include the Russian dominated regions, which would become part of Russia.
I believe Putin would likely allow new elections for self-determination; although, they might be moot, because all the non-Russians would have emigrated to other areas.
Pretty reasonable considering a large part of this operation was because nato kept encroaching so the last thing you'd want is to stop the war and have nato continuing to arm, and fortify the country that they shouldn't have been doing in the first place.
this is a movie
with GREAT actors!
Funny that's what many who are super awake been saying from the start of the War.. do not give Ukraine money or weapon. Leave NATO. That was all it took. Rocket science..
is Russia going to be able to keep the region of Ukraine that wants to be part of Russia? those people in that region have been through hell and back, before the war even started.
I hope Russia will be able to keep those regions as it's the voice of the locals there begging to join Russia.They can even vote on it and without cheating Russia would win 100%.
Maybe they should vote on which country they want to be in. That ole self-government thing. I have a feeling I know how that vote will come out.
I’m curious where people get the idea that the residents of those regions want to be part of Russia. Is it from the same kind of fake news we all claim to despise?
It’s similar to how, in the U.S., there are people in places like California (and elsewhere) who might want to dismantle our country or believe we’d be better off belonging to another nation. And just like we say here: if you think somewhere else is better, then move there.
My wife and two children were born just a few miles south of one of the contested regions. From my perspective, the only people who want to be part of Russia are the Russians who moved into the area and tried to take over.
I believe this war is exactly what most of us think it is: a corrupt operation. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are regular, patriotic people in Ukraine who want nothing to do with the corruption, the war, or Russia. Just like here, the majority of people there simply want to live in peace and move on with their lives.
Anyone can downvote if they would like, don't take my comments the wrong way. I don't support any weapons transfers, ect and I believe in the biolabs, but what about all of the citizens that want their independence from Russia? None of the news ever talks about what the people want.
I'll dismantle your argument piece by piece, but I'd like to start with this one:
Never trust a Ukranian woman when it comes to politics. They are very emotional and can never give you the full picture of the situation.
In case if you haven't paid attention to social media or just plain old MSM, Ukraine has some of the most entitled people in the world. The reason for it is very simple. Historically everything was handed down to them. They never had to fight for anything.
Their country? Made up by Lenin and given free lands by Stalin and Khrushchev. During the USSR they were the biggest recipients of welfare out of any soviet SSR. So much so that during the dissolution of the said USSR, the proponents were arguing that Russia would immediately be prosperous because they would stop subsidizing Ukraine.
Just as FYI, during the dissolution of the USSR, Ukraine had a GDP similar to France. In 2022, before the war started it was the poorest country in Europe, all of that despite having their industry built up by soviets(Russians in reailty) to the tune of nuclear power plants, coals mines, hydroplants, coal plants. They also have some of the most fertile lands in the world, and yet most of their domestic foods were imported.
In 30+ years of independence, Ukraine became the most corrupt country in Europe, beating out little agrarian Moldova. They had 30+ years to modernize their country and bring it up to western standards. Instead they spent these 30 years doing indentity politics(the national kind), while their oligarch were siphoning trillions overseas.
And who is to blame for all of this? Russia of course
Ukraine doesn't know how to be an independnt country. Their entire existence they were occupied by either Poland or Russia. That's why they are looking to join the EU and NATO. When you are a slave, slavery feels like the norm.
The fake news echos your talking points. If we listen to the fake news, Crimea wants to return to Ukranine too.(you know despite the fact that it tried to secede in 3 separate occassions in the 1990's and rejoin Russia.)
That's bold faced lie. Unless of course you mean, the Russian that colonized eastern Ukraine after the mongols got kicked out back in 1600's. That area became known as Novorossia(New Russia).
Here is a map of how they voted before the civil war started. Notice anything? All of the military opeations are currently going in on in the areas that have 70% support for Yanukovich.(which was a democratically elected pro-Russian President)
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/
The situation is more akin to Texas before it joined the Union. Imagine if the US had to fight off a Mexico that was bankrolled by all the European empires for Texas. That's basically what's going on in Ukraine.
Muh brave Ukranians vs the corrupt Russians.
In reality these brave Ukranians fled en masse abroad. I went home last summer(I'm from eastern Europe too) and all my country is overun by these "brave Ukranians". Military aged men that live on the welfare of my country and tell me how brave they are. You can't make it up. And it's not just my country, all of western Europe is fed up with this shit as well.
They literally pay their drafting officers so they wouldn't be sent to the front lines. There are countless videos of Ukranian men being kidnapped off the streets and forced to join the military.
As someone said: Russia is paying their soliders to go to the front lines while the Ukranian soldiers pay to be taken off the front line.
And there is your corrupt Russia vs noble Ukraine in a nutshel.
Thank you fren for writing all this so I don't have to :).
"ukraine" is not a country. Who names their country "Border region". Nobody. It's always been part of Russia. Besides the western part that was part of Austria-Hungary. And that part is where the hardcore nazis come from, where bandera came from.
FFS, Odessa was founded by Catherine the Great, Tzarina of Russia.
very, very well said!
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/sep/8/russia-holds-elections-in-occupied-ukrainian-regio/
In April 2014, the Russian-backed rebels in Donetsk and Luhansk proclaimed the creation of "people's republics" and months later held a popular and unrecognized referendum to declare independence from Ukraine in an effort to become part of Russia, experts said.
are you going to tell me that Ukrainian nazi's weren't going into these two areas for years, raping and murdering these people because they were wanting to return to Russia?
i read the Russians didn't move into that area, they were already there when Ukraine took it.
For ONE, I don’t believe you are living in this area because you obviously have no knowledge of the history.
And TWO - When the SMO started backing February 2022, there were two reasons why president Putin entered Ukraine. To DEmilitarise and DEnazify Ukraine.
Not long after the start of the SMO, the Russian speaking people in the Donbas - Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia oblasts were asked if they wanted a referendum to join Russia. These were Russians caught on the wrong side of a border. With the dividing up of the Soviet Union around 1990, these Russian speaking areas came under Ukraine. The result was overwhelmingly yes with 89+ % wanting to come under the protective wings of Russia - after all, they were Russian. After the referendum they lined up to receive their Russian passports, an internet and phone card. Most had lost everything and it was a very dangerous time and people lining up to wait to vote became targets and some were killed and wounded.
While you say the Ukrainians are peace loving, many, in fact a great number are to this day Nazis. They are Banderites who followed Stephan Bandera. He’s long dead but many of the captured Ukraine fighters display nazi symbols and many have his face on their bodies. I’ve seen video after video - in fact classrooms of little children being taught nazi songs, taught how to do nazi salute, taught to hate Russians and Russia. What was one of the two reasons the SMO occurred? To DE Nazify Ukraine.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/the-odessa-trade-union-massacre-ten-years-later/
From 2014/2015 when the Minsk Agreements were signed up until the start of the SMO, 14,000 Russian speaking citizens living in these areas were murdered by the Ukraine Military. Speaking Russian was forbidden, the Russian Orthodox Church was shut down and many priests were jailed or worse. Churches were burned after they were looted etc. Read up on the murder of even those waiting in groups as the Russian military were evacuating them to safety into Russia, snipers from Ukraine Military were killing these people. Many children in these areas spent their childhood underground in bunkers. Those buildings that were destroyed and plastered over legacy media, were not Ukraines towns, but the bombed out regions of the Donbas. Propaganda. These people are now firmly back home in Russia and have been given brand new apartments and the area is being cleared of rubble as they are liberated. Recently, Angela Merkel revealed that the Minsk Agreements were just a ruse to move more military equipment into the area.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html
The whole idea was to use Ukraine as a proxy to buildup foreign military on the Russian border. To get Ukraine into NATO. Putin said he would repel any attempt to invade Russia via Ukraine. So far Ukraine have lost nearly a million fighters. The NATO/US/UK/EU thought they would just March into Russia, perform a coup - see history of Victoria Nuland with her swanning around the ME and Europe conducting coupes wherever she feels like it. They met their match with Russia. Russia has an army greater than any army on earth. This SMO has depleted much of Americas military equipment, that of the UK and the EU. They also have unknown weapons that the world hasn’t even seen. Think Sarmat and Oreshnik. Ukraine is finished. One more thing. Ukraine is known as the most corrupt country in Europe - perhaps the world. Think Biden and Burisma. There is a lot that will be revealed very soon.
Number 1 I didn't say I currently live there, I lived there years ago on and off. The last time I was there was a few weeks after the war started.
Everything that you want to post is history and you want me to believe that the elections they held were fair? My wifes parents and most in her neighborhood were going to refuse to vote but in fear of reprisals after armed guards escorted them to the voting booths. Sounds normal right?
I'm just explaining to you my first hand experience and knowledge, not what i read or saw on TV.
When wars start, especially this time in the world, kids and people aren't brave like they use to. They flee, just the same would happen here. At the same time for every person that left, there's someone standing up to fight.
Next when it comes to countries boarders, I don't care your nationality. Eastern Europe was divided up in the 90s and that it. Are you saying it's fair to start uprising because you don't like the agreed on boarders? Tough shit... Just like we say here, if you don't like it move. Most families were split when the USSR fell, just like my wifes family. Half live in Russia and the other half in Ukraine.
I can tell you that it's not normal to live under that type of sensor-ship, and control from the government. Anyone that thinks that's okay is not normal. So before I can get past that Putin or Russia is on the Good side, I can't get past the simplest freedoms that are not given to the Russian people.
I don't doubt that our CIA meddled in their previous elections and what not... What i think you are failing to understand is Russia is not a good country and i truly don't think anyone would want to live under that kind of control. Think what you want but time will show.
I'm not going to go back and forth arguing, I was just sharing my first hand experience.
Once again, I think that we should stop supplying Ukraine, I think that most of the upper government is still corrupt, no different than Russia. I think there's alot of shady stuff going on in the country as well.
This doesn't change the fact that the citizens of Ukraine and Russia and Belarus are under severely corrupt leadership and the people want and deserve the opportunity to have some of the natural freedoms that most of the world experiences.
I don't doubt there's some Nazis in the government but are you suggesting that the people are? There's Nazis in governments all over the world, we just don't know peoples true feelings. Ukaine use to be home to the largest jewish population before WW2. The citizens don't have a problem. To me this is just an excuse used, just as the left tries to label us.
soooo very glad that you are 100% complete in the know of everything and the rest of us plebs asking a question are beneath you. if you don't like my questions, move on.
don't belittle anons asking questions. nothing about his war is in the light. it's wouldn't be the first time that Russia has had the rug jerked out from underneath them.
i thought you were crapping on me for my question. i'm sorry if i took it wrong.
something about you saying what a question, as i took it as meaning i was dumb for asking. again, i apologize that i took it the wrong way. i like for people to ask questions because not all of us are up to speed on everything and a lot of times i hesitate to ask because i see others getting slammed for asking.
appreciate your time and answering my question.
yes this site has a lot of great info on many different topics. hard to keep up with everything. the one anon that replied to me was either trolling or misdirected in his answer to me and a lot of anons set him straight. so, i wasn't sure if you were ripping me as well for asking that question?
from everything i've read here, it seems that Russia keeps getting the short end of the stick that's why i was hoping they could keep the parts of Ukraine that the people who wanted to be Russian could be able to join Russia.
thanks for your great insight on this subject. have a great day.
The FPV drones are nuts
How u can clean the Bandera Nazi . Simple Ze Is sending them to meet and greet Bandera
His starting negotiating position.
We’ll need more Vlad.
I have no quarrel with that.
Well in fairness thats because ukraine will evaporate
Irrespective of all the history discussed throught this post, Ukraine would be unable to sustain any military effort without outside assistance, so they would have to give up. Possibly, Putin is suggesting that it will take Ukraine a couple of months to come to that conclusion. When that happens, the new boundaries of Ukraine would probably no longer include the Russian dominated regions, which would become part of Russia.
I believe Putin would likely allow new elections for self-determination; although, they might be moot, because all the non-Russians would have emigrated to other areas.
This won't do it
Try again Vlad