My wife miscarried when a DEI dr performed a botched amniocentesis on her. The resulting infection blew out her fallopian tubes and the only way we could conceive was IVF. We managed to get one child out of the procedure and I wouldn't trade her for the world. She's beautiful, kind and smart. Finishing an engineering degree at an Ivy League School and a Trump supporter. Hate on it all you want but some good does come out of it for some people.
Yes. Im sorry, but also congrats. Im truly thrilled for you. Real fubctioning members of society want a family of their own more than anything. Im going to draw the line at taking that from people just because i dont like it. Especially when you can regulate it better. Family and kids is the whole point.
You can even make the argument that god enabled us to discover ivf so we could help the people who otherwise couldnt have children who are very good people. It goes both ways.
Lastly people that shouldnt be having children dont get this procedure done. They are desperate people that want a family more than anything in the world and who are you (anyone with an opinion) to take that from them when god gave us the ability to figure this out.
Family is everything. There is nothing else.
/rant
“I think I have read that they use some of the excess sperm and eggs to grow babies in labs...that is definitely very evil.”
Yes once you go down the rabbit holes on this one IVF may have a very dark side. All too often in this world Good is being used to cover over Evil. I would be very concerned with storing my tiny frozen babies in a lab where it could possibly be stolen. Also these parents have to renew the storage contract each year and pay a fee to continue. What happens to those embryos where mom and dad stopped paying the bill. Did they get discarded or did they get sold? Where there’s money to be made there is usually corruption. Of course we will only hear about all the wonderful stories of parents who were able to give birth to their child. No one wants to look at the dark side behind all that happiness.
IVF is both a blessing and a curse. You are correct about the thin line between good and evil. Look at POTUS how much Good he has done already? But will he be able to prevent evil from entering his plans? Can Musk be fully trusted in the long run being he is a trans-humanist? So many questions left unanswered and only time will tell. We all need to do our best and stay true to God until the end.
We aren't creating them in a lab, we are aiding the fertilization process for parents having difficulty. Then it goes back in the body, and the body is growing the baby as God intended. Do you think IVF life is an abomination? Do you think people born with the hep of IVF are abominations?
Are you saying God is not powerful enough to heal those women and that He would rather choose IVF to create a child? God is Almighty and can do anything by miracle but people wants to go by their own wills and desires in life instead of submitting to His perfect will and plans for our lives. Many women are infertile in their younger years but then all of the sudden gets pregnant. How does that happen one might ask? IMO far too many are too impatient to wait on the Lord or have no faith to trust in his plan so they go out and play Gods themselves, creating human life in Petri dishes instead of the womb as God had intended. All of this is just moving us one step closer to AI. When will the embryos stop being put back into the womb and instead grown in labs?
Who are you to say that ivf isnt god giving them what they are desperately praying for? Regulate it. Dont take it away from desperate people.
If your gonna trust trump to end corruption and save the world then trust him to take care of this too.
Dont take away the one hope these people have of a family from some misguided notion that we are "playing god," when what youre really mad at is the same vampires that corrupt everything they touch. Direct your anger towards removing them instead.
If god touches everything then he made it possible for ivf to happen im the first place. Noone has the authority to claim this is some kind of blasphemy against the creator. If you think you do, youre sinply wrong.
People pray to become pregnant. This is giving and creating life, not taking it away
That’s a very dangerous statement to make that if I trust Trump on one thing I should trust him in all matters without question or hesitation. I don’t blindly follow President Trump. I question things I don’t agree with. I would never put my full trust into any man. Only God can be trusted. I trust in God to take care of the corruption and save our country. I believe God put President Trump in that position to fulfill his plan. But Trump is not God he is man and can fall any day if he goes against Gods will. I pray that’s not the case here and no I’m not the one to say if someone can do IVF or not that would be up to them to decide. I am however entitled to my opinion as are you. I am just a concerned citizen and while I do believe God is in all things I also believe there is a dark side to everything. You have to be able to look at both sides to make such an important decision. No one is entitled to a child - it’s a blessing by God. Many women who were once infertile become pregnant later in life naturally. They either prayed and was answered or perhaps they patiently waited for Gods perfect timing. I do understand some people never get there but there are other ways less harmful than IVF that doesn’t result in throw-a-way children. I would be more open to IVF if they banned selective discarding and freezing. Lots of life lost in those test tubes. Also on another matter I am very concerned with what happened to those embryos left in the freezer once the parents stop paying the account to store them. Do they get thrown away or perhaps sold off to science or traffickers..? With all the evil in the world it’s something to consider and be aware off imo. But you do you and follow Trump. Will you following him into a digital AI world to and accept the mark if offered by him? I love President Trump but we must always be careful whom we put our trust in and in all matters we should retain our critical thinking skills no matter who is in the White House.
Listen, also... sry if i came on strong. Obv this is a contentious issue. However i truly respect the fact that we can discuss it despite a difference in opinion. And im not above feeling bad for using directional language so i apologise for that. But i do think we have the power to regulate it correctly and still help people that want kids more than anything, and that this is the only way for them
Absolutely agree that good comes out and I’m sure your child is a blessing. I have 3 cousins myself that was conceived with IVF. It is absolutely nothing against them but more about the practice itself. In cases such as yours it’s understandable why you went that route. I do believe however that people needs to be more educated on the matter. The problem I have with it is more embryos are fertilized than is needed and these tiny creations of life gets discarded or frozen in time. It’s not always the case as parents to be will have a choice of creating between 2-20 embryos (price is the same no matter how many they choose). The more you create the higher are your chances of success but obviously this means that more will be discarded than what is being brought to life. Many people will freeze the embryos and decide at a later time if they want to use them. Freezing human life in time or discarding it is not pro-life imo. But no hate on you for doing what you believe was right for your family and congratulations on your child. My only hope is that people in the future will be better informed and understand what they are doing.
IVF creates disposable human beings. No matter how much one would treasure a child, this method is a horrible "solution"!
This is similar to "selective abortion" when IVF has allowed more babies in the womb than nature Herself would allow. How many other equally viable children to die, is worth one living child?? NONE, not ONE! Do you want your child to have survivors' guilt?!? What a terrible burden!
They are not implanted until they are feetilized right? And also they are not fertilized until right before they are implanted? Regardless, until then they are just eggs, there is no life until at the very least the first cell splits. Tons of people rely on ivf to build families they otherwise couldnt have. Its life changing for them and gives them real fulfillment and family. Why would anyone want to take that from them?
How many tiny children = embryos was destroyed or frozen in time to make way for that one life? Fully fertilized embryos are frozen not just eggs. The Alabama supreme court has ruled that embryos are children and many Christian’s believes that life begins at conception. Adoption is an option when you can not have children and so many orphans hope to one day have a family. Why not focus on bringing them home first before manipulating with Gods creations?
Exactly by God Almighty. Who are we to play God and manipulate with his perfect creations? Human life is intended to start in the womb - not on a Petri dish plate. And Definitely no human life should be discarded or frozen in time no matter how tiny it is.
Yes we have free will and we can choose to use it for either Good or Evil. Often we end up in a grey area where it’s too dark to see what side we will end up on. Is there hope with IVF? Surely. But there is also a dark side that should not be ignored. I guess people will find out in the end how God will judge on this matter. Prayers for their souls.
Is everyone who disagrees with you a witch? And no I don’t worship nature I worship God the creator of the universe which includes nature. I worship Him. Now his creations.
Wow you seem really upset on this subject. Sorry if your feeling got hurt. Me? Im all good I do however I stand by what I believe in. We can agree to disagree you don’t have to believe what I believe which is that God made babies and stitched us together in the womb as described in the Bible. Humans are part of nature (not sure if you thought otherwise lol) but man’s will and Gods will are not the same. So no everything in this world does not happen as God intended because of man’s free will. We are more than capable at operating outside Gods realm however I don’t believe that is his intention or purpose of our creation. Just because something is possible doesn’t make it right or godly. God allows a lot of evil in this world so that we may seek him out. While he may disapprove and hate many things men do he can however still use it for his purposes. But we were given free will and let’s be honest man throughout history of time has made many mistakes when it comes to relying on his free will. Now I’m curious since you seem to so easily compare boats to babies; with your philosophy do you then believe abortions also are within Gods allowance since man is capable of performing them?
So, by that logic, couples who can't feasibly conceive in a more natural setting, who would also make great parents shouldn't be able to have kids?! Sometimes, adoption isn't an option.
Yes there is the potential of the miracle of life when using IVF. The problem is how many tiny life’s = embryos were destroyed or frozen in time to make way for that one fully matured born child? All life is sacred and should be treated as such. IVF is essentially worse than abortion as it has the ability to discard human life on a much larger scale.
Miscarriages are natural causes of life. I would not compare them to IVF or even abortion for that matter since it’s involuntary and outside the will of the mother. IVF and abortion is a choice. Miscarriage is not.
While I think what this woman did is an abomination, these are not yet embryos. At the moment of conception you have a zygote which is when the fertilized egg begins to divide into multiple cells over a few days, then it becomes a blastocyst when it implants into the uterus. Only after implantation is it considered an embryo. And yes I stated all this to make one simple point, in nature, women fertilize eggs more often than they realize, the reason they don't get "pregnant" is because so many fertilized eggs fail to implant in the uterus. If life is alive at the moment of conception, then nature is just as cruel as ivf is.
I don't know when life becomes alive and i don't believe anyone does. We can argue it's a life form, and that is true, it is very much the beginnings of a human life, but at the stage when much still can go wrong in nature. From failure to implant to early miscarriages, sometimes life never gets a chance to become alive. I do however believe once the heart is beating it is logical to classify it as alive since we classify death when the heart stops. Any arguments beyond that are philosophical in nature and we should continue to have the philosophical discussions.
In the meantime there are many humans who may never have any offspring without the help of ivf, so ifv still leads to bringing a life into this world.
I think abortion is wrong. I think it's wrong when abortion activists call a fetus that is obviously alive, with two eyes, a mouth and a beating heart a "clump of cells". But in the case of ivf, it literally is just a few cells because it's only at the blastocyst stage. It absolutely has the potential to become a life form, but is it alive yet? I consider an abortion, which typically happens after there is a heartbeat, to be far more disgusting and cruel.
Yes and how do we know at which point does that clump of cells receive a soul? Before it implants? Hours afterwards? Once the heart starts beating? Once the first neuron fires?
My point is no one actually knows, but we see what is allowed to happen in nature, and that helps us to make logical decisions until the day when we do know for sure. And in the meantime, children get to be born who would otherwise never be given that chance.
The problem is not the life it creates. The problem is the life it discards. Yes children will be born and that will be wonderful. I think almost everyone knows at least 1 family who has used IVF to conceive a child and therefor it becomes personal and difficult to acknowledge it’s darkside. For every life that gets to be born how many children will be discarded or frozen in time with IVF? How many tiny lives has already been created only to be thrown out and never given a chance at being born?
How many millions are discarded everyday in womens' bodies? It happens all the time in nature. Not all fertilized eggs are implanted in the uterus. The body literally kills fertilized eggs. We are designed this way BY OUR CREATOR. So I doubt the soul enters the body that soon. Why bother with designing us in such a way that so many souls would be wasted.
Embryo is not the first stage. Read my original post. The stage we are talking about here is a stage that the body often rejects in nature too. It's happening all the time in our bodies but no one is outraged about that.
Once MAHA takes effect and people are healed at a cellular level most will not have to seek alternative forms to get pregnant. I am on my journey now for complete transformation. Getting past the detox is the hardest part.
I’m not sure our generations have much hope for complete healing at this point. Perhaps the younger generation and our children will be better off. That’s if they don’t manage to discard new forms of life via IVF.
I believe that is a weak effort to maintain population after sterilizing half of them with a vaccine. Which, I also believe was, if not "the", one of the focal points of the vaccine.
As a proud Aunt of an exceptional Niece and two equally amazing Nephews, all conceived via IVF, I thank God my Brother and Sister-in-Law had access to this process.
I can’t imagine being so arrogant to believe these children should not exist because one objects to the procedure their parents endured, with God’s Grace, to give them Life.
I agree wholeheartedly with President Trump in making IVF available and more affordable to all.
Parents, especially those who are demonstrably willing to undergo any and all hardships in order to conceive, should be encouraged! We need more Babies!
I have 3 adorable cousins myself born with IVF. My belief is not that they shouldn’t exist. Every human life is a blessing. No doubt about it. But Is it really that arrogant not to belive in destroying tiny forms of human life which is the case with IVF? Many embryos = life is created to make way for one born child. The other embryos are discarded or frozen in time.
If people realized how many fertilized eggs get washed away with the woman's period because it failed to implant, they wouldn't get so worked up over ivf because it happens constantly in nature, and they wouldn't call it an embryo because it's not at the embryo stage yet.
Natural causes are not the same as man made causes and an egg is not the same as an embryo. Fertilized eggs are already in the first stage of life. There is no turning back from that. If that life is not given a chance to grow into maturity then it’s basically destroyed.
ivf isn't embryo's though, that's what people here fail to understand. the ivf discard stage happens at the exact stage we just pointed out, the same stage the human body discards these FERTILIZED eggs constantly. I'm old, eggs aren't going to implant reliably in my uterus. All the eggs my husband fertilizes are being thrown away by my body. Failure to understand this is failure to properly understand what's happening with ivf.
I wish he did this in 2016 I would have children. Our population is dying because infertility is an epidemic. maybe it is personal to me. since all I wanted in life was kids. Blah.
Upvoted in support of principled disagreement. Now that MAGA is mainstream and "our guy" is in the White House, it is important that we continue to allow sane, non-malicious, principled voices that disagree with some element of the common interpretation of "our" paradigm. We aren't social insects and we won't all have the same opinions on everything.
I wouldn't even mention that -- it's not a new idea to anyone here -- except for a post by ifififififokiedokie that arrived a couple of hours before this one, concerned about censorship here at GA.
I don't have a problem with IVF (with a huge percentage of the population now COVID-jabbed, I fear many will NEED all the help they can get to have children) -- but then, I haven't researched IVF the way Saltyarmyanon has.
Thank you for being open to discussion. As my title mentioned MAGA is split on this issues I too was pro IVF up until I started looking at the dark side of it. If one believes life starts at conception it’s hard to look the other way on this one. So much life has been frozen in time and discarded. What happens to all those little souls in the universe? They each have sparks of God manifested into life and then was put out by no fault on their own. I marvel at the universe and God’s creations and I really think we need to be more careful with technology matters as they often overrule the will of God. At the very least IVF needs to be regulated. Too many designer babies and excessive embryos created for no valid reason. At minimum selective discarding should be outright banned.
It stands for In vitro fertilization. Basically it’s when sperm and eggs are being fertilized outside the womb in a petri dish creating the embryo. The problem with it is that several embryos are created - some will be discarded, or frozen in time. Many believe and Alabama Supreme Court has ruled that embryos are children albeit tiny and deserves a chance at life. POTUS just signed an order yesterday to expand IVF and make it more affordable. It was one of his later adapted campaign promises. Many Christian’s are not happy. President Trump only learned about the method last year so I honestly don’t think he understands the horror as it essentially equates to mass murder on a much larger scale than abortions ever was.
Very disappointing to see Trump sign off on this. How did he only learn about such a well known bio technology last year? You are spot on. Human life begins at conception and children become commodities in IVF. I could never look at my child day after day and know that several siblings were now sacrificed or in a limbo of deep freeze so I could have MY RIGHT to a bio-child! It's always about MY rights, and never about the rights and dignity of helpless, dependent children. God is out of the picture. Pure selfishness, no matter how much virtue signaling tries to cover that up.
Discussions are important on these matters and people need to be aware that there is a dark side to IVF. If it’s here to stay then at the very least it should be regulated. No selective discarding and designer kids should be allowed.
My wife miscarried when a DEI dr performed a botched amniocentesis on her. The resulting infection blew out her fallopian tubes and the only way we could conceive was IVF. We managed to get one child out of the procedure and I wouldn't trade her for the world. She's beautiful, kind and smart. Finishing an engineering degree at an Ivy League School and a Trump supporter. Hate on it all you want but some good does come out of it for some people.
Yes. Im sorry, but also congrats. Im truly thrilled for you. Real fubctioning members of society want a family of their own more than anything. Im going to draw the line at taking that from people just because i dont like it. Especially when you can regulate it better. Family and kids is the whole point. You can even make the argument that god enabled us to discover ivf so we could help the people who otherwise couldnt have children who are very good people. It goes both ways. Lastly people that shouldnt be having children dont get this procedure done. They are desperate people that want a family more than anything in the world and who are you (anyone with an opinion) to take that from them when god gave us the ability to figure this out. Family is everything. There is nothing else. /rant
Exactly, God instructed us to multiply. We need more families.
He never instructed us to play God and create them ourselves in a lab. That’s manipulating with God’s creations.
“I think I have read that they use some of the excess sperm and eggs to grow babies in labs...that is definitely very evil.”
Yes once you go down the rabbit holes on this one IVF may have a very dark side. All too often in this world Good is being used to cover over Evil. I would be very concerned with storing my tiny frozen babies in a lab where it could possibly be stolen. Also these parents have to renew the storage contract each year and pay a fee to continue. What happens to those embryos where mom and dad stopped paying the bill. Did they get discarded or did they get sold? Where there’s money to be made there is usually corruption. Of course we will only hear about all the wonderful stories of parents who were able to give birth to their child. No one wants to look at the dark side behind all that happiness.
IVF is both a blessing and a curse. You are correct about the thin line between good and evil. Look at POTUS how much Good he has done already? But will he be able to prevent evil from entering his plans? Can Musk be fully trusted in the long run being he is a trans-humanist? So many questions left unanswered and only time will tell. We all need to do our best and stay true to God until the end.
We aren't creating them in a lab, we are aiding the fertilization process for parents having difficulty. Then it goes back in the body, and the body is growing the baby as God intended. Do you think IVF life is an abomination? Do you think people born with the hep of IVF are abominations?
Are you saying God is not powerful enough to heal those women and that He would rather choose IVF to create a child? God is Almighty and can do anything by miracle but people wants to go by their own wills and desires in life instead of submitting to His perfect will and plans for our lives. Many women are infertile in their younger years but then all of the sudden gets pregnant. How does that happen one might ask? IMO far too many are too impatient to wait on the Lord or have no faith to trust in his plan so they go out and play Gods themselves, creating human life in Petri dishes instead of the womb as God had intended. All of this is just moving us one step closer to AI. When will the embryos stop being put back into the womb and instead grown in labs?
Who are you to say that ivf isnt god giving them what they are desperately praying for? Regulate it. Dont take it away from desperate people. If your gonna trust trump to end corruption and save the world then trust him to take care of this too. Dont take away the one hope these people have of a family from some misguided notion that we are "playing god," when what youre really mad at is the same vampires that corrupt everything they touch. Direct your anger towards removing them instead.
If god touches everything then he made it possible for ivf to happen im the first place. Noone has the authority to claim this is some kind of blasphemy against the creator. If you think you do, youre sinply wrong. People pray to become pregnant. This is giving and creating life, not taking it away
That’s a very dangerous statement to make that if I trust Trump on one thing I should trust him in all matters without question or hesitation. I don’t blindly follow President Trump. I question things I don’t agree with. I would never put my full trust into any man. Only God can be trusted. I trust in God to take care of the corruption and save our country. I believe God put President Trump in that position to fulfill his plan. But Trump is not God he is man and can fall any day if he goes against Gods will. I pray that’s not the case here and no I’m not the one to say if someone can do IVF or not that would be up to them to decide. I am however entitled to my opinion as are you. I am just a concerned citizen and while I do believe God is in all things I also believe there is a dark side to everything. You have to be able to look at both sides to make such an important decision. No one is entitled to a child - it’s a blessing by God. Many women who were once infertile become pregnant later in life naturally. They either prayed and was answered or perhaps they patiently waited for Gods perfect timing. I do understand some people never get there but there are other ways less harmful than IVF that doesn’t result in throw-a-way children. I would be more open to IVF if they banned selective discarding and freezing. Lots of life lost in those test tubes. Also on another matter I am very concerned with what happened to those embryos left in the freezer once the parents stop paying the account to store them. Do they get thrown away or perhaps sold off to science or traffickers..? With all the evil in the world it’s something to consider and be aware off imo. But you do you and follow Trump. Will you following him into a digital AI world to and accept the mark if offered by him? I love President Trump but we must always be careful whom we put our trust in and in all matters we should retain our critical thinking skills no matter who is in the White House.
Yikes. If ya gonna strawman go all out I guess.
Thats not what i said at all. I didnt advovate for blind trust in any way friend
Listen, also... sry if i came on strong. Obv this is a contentious issue. However i truly respect the fact that we can discuss it despite a difference in opinion. And im not above feeling bad for using directional language so i apologise for that. But i do think we have the power to regulate it correctly and still help people that want kids more than anything, and that this is the only way for them
Absolutely agree that good comes out and I’m sure your child is a blessing. I have 3 cousins myself that was conceived with IVF. It is absolutely nothing against them but more about the practice itself. In cases such as yours it’s understandable why you went that route. I do believe however that people needs to be more educated on the matter. The problem I have with it is more embryos are fertilized than is needed and these tiny creations of life gets discarded or frozen in time. It’s not always the case as parents to be will have a choice of creating between 2-20 embryos (price is the same no matter how many they choose). The more you create the higher are your chances of success but obviously this means that more will be discarded than what is being brought to life. Many people will freeze the embryos and decide at a later time if they want to use them. Freezing human life in time or discarding it is not pro-life imo. But no hate on you for doing what you believe was right for your family and congratulations on your child. My only hope is that people in the future will be better informed and understand what they are doing.
IVF creates disposable human beings. No matter how much one would treasure a child, this method is a horrible "solution"!
This is similar to "selective abortion" when IVF has allowed more babies in the womb than nature Herself would allow. How many other equally viable children to die, is worth one living child?? NONE, not ONE! Do you want your child to have survivors' guilt?!? What a terrible burden!
Let GOD decide, please!
They are not implanted until they are feetilized right? And also they are not fertilized until right before they are implanted? Regardless, until then they are just eggs, there is no life until at the very least the first cell splits. Tons of people rely on ivf to build families they otherwise couldnt have. Its life changing for them and gives them real fulfillment and family. Why would anyone want to take that from them?
How many tiny children = embryos was destroyed or frozen in time to make way for that one life? Fully fertilized embryos are frozen not just eggs. The Alabama supreme court has ruled that embryos are children and many Christian’s believes that life begins at conception. Adoption is an option when you can not have children and so many orphans hope to one day have a family. Why not focus on bringing them home first before manipulating with Gods creations?
Exactly by God Almighty. Who are we to play God and manipulate with his perfect creations? Human life is intended to start in the womb - not on a Petri dish plate. And Definitely no human life should be discarded or frozen in time no matter how tiny it is.
Yes we have free will and we can choose to use it for either Good or Evil. Often we end up in a grey area where it’s too dark to see what side we will end up on. Is there hope with IVF? Surely. But there is also a dark side that should not be ignored. I guess people will find out in the end how God will judge on this matter. Prayers for their souls.
Is everyone who disagrees with you a witch? And no I don’t worship nature I worship God the creator of the universe which includes nature. I worship Him. Now his creations.
Wow you seem really upset on this subject. Sorry if your feeling got hurt. Me? Im all good I do however I stand by what I believe in. We can agree to disagree you don’t have to believe what I believe which is that God made babies and stitched us together in the womb as described in the Bible. Humans are part of nature (not sure if you thought otherwise lol) but man’s will and Gods will are not the same. So no everything in this world does not happen as God intended because of man’s free will. We are more than capable at operating outside Gods realm however I don’t believe that is his intention or purpose of our creation. Just because something is possible doesn’t make it right or godly. God allows a lot of evil in this world so that we may seek him out. While he may disapprove and hate many things men do he can however still use it for his purposes. But we were given free will and let’s be honest man throughout history of time has made many mistakes when it comes to relying on his free will. Now I’m curious since you seem to so easily compare boats to babies; with your philosophy do you then believe abortions also are within Gods allowance since man is capable of performing them?
So, by that logic, couples who can't feasibly conceive in a more natural setting, who would also make great parents shouldn't be able to have kids?! Sometimes, adoption isn't an option.
Yes there is the potential of the miracle of life when using IVF. The problem is how many tiny life’s = embryos were destroyed or frozen in time to make way for that one fully matured born child? All life is sacred and should be treated as such. IVF is essentially worse than abortion as it has the ability to discard human life on a much larger scale.
Miscarriages are natural causes of life. I would not compare them to IVF or even abortion for that matter since it’s involuntary and outside the will of the mother. IVF and abortion is a choice. Miscarriage is not.
While I think what this woman did is an abomination, these are not yet embryos. At the moment of conception you have a zygote which is when the fertilized egg begins to divide into multiple cells over a few days, then it becomes a blastocyst when it implants into the uterus. Only after implantation is it considered an embryo. And yes I stated all this to make one simple point, in nature, women fertilize eggs more often than they realize, the reason they don't get "pregnant" is because so many fertilized eggs fail to implant in the uterus. If life is alive at the moment of conception, then nature is just as cruel as ivf is.
I don't know when life becomes alive and i don't believe anyone does. We can argue it's a life form, and that is true, it is very much the beginnings of a human life, but at the stage when much still can go wrong in nature. From failure to implant to early miscarriages, sometimes life never gets a chance to become alive. I do however believe once the heart is beating it is logical to classify it as alive since we classify death when the heart stops. Any arguments beyond that are philosophical in nature and we should continue to have the philosophical discussions.
In the meantime there are many humans who may never have any offspring without the help of ivf, so ifv still leads to bringing a life into this world.
I think abortion is wrong. I think it's wrong when abortion activists call a fetus that is obviously alive, with two eyes, a mouth and a beating heart a "clump of cells". But in the case of ivf, it literally is just a few cells because it's only at the blastocyst stage. It absolutely has the potential to become a life form, but is it alive yet? I consider an abortion, which typically happens after there is a heartbeat, to be far more disgusting and cruel.
Yes and how do we know at which point does that clump of cells receive a soul? Before it implants? Hours afterwards? Once the heart starts beating? Once the first neuron fires?
My point is no one actually knows, but we see what is allowed to happen in nature, and that helps us to make logical decisions until the day when we do know for sure. And in the meantime, children get to be born who would otherwise never be given that chance.
The problem is not the life it creates. The problem is the life it discards. Yes children will be born and that will be wonderful. I think almost everyone knows at least 1 family who has used IVF to conceive a child and therefor it becomes personal and difficult to acknowledge it’s darkside. For every life that gets to be born how many children will be discarded or frozen in time with IVF? How many tiny lives has already been created only to be thrown out and never given a chance at being born?
How many millions are discarded everyday in womens' bodies? It happens all the time in nature. Not all fertilized eggs are implanted in the uterus. The body literally kills fertilized eggs. We are designed this way BY OUR CREATOR. So I doubt the soul enters the body that soon. Why bother with designing us in such a way that so many souls would be wasted.
IMO life starts at conception which is when the egg is fertilized and an embryo is created.
It's not an embryo at that stage though.
How is it not? Egg gets fertilized with sperm = embryo
Embryo is not the first stage. Read my original post. The stage we are talking about here is a stage that the body often rejects in nature too. It's happening all the time in our bodies but no one is outraged about that.
This is important to the conversation ^^^^^
Once MAHA takes effect and people are healed at a cellular level most will not have to seek alternative forms to get pregnant. I am on my journey now for complete transformation. Getting past the detox is the hardest part.
I’m not sure our generations have much hope for complete healing at this point. Perhaps the younger generation and our children will be better off. That’s if they don’t manage to discard new forms of life via IVF.
I believe that is a weak effort to maintain population after sterilizing half of them with a vaccine. Which, I also believe was, if not "the", one of the focal points of the vaccine.
As a proud Aunt of an exceptional Niece and two equally amazing Nephews, all conceived via IVF, I thank God my Brother and Sister-in-Law had access to this process.
I can’t imagine being so arrogant to believe these children should not exist because one objects to the procedure their parents endured, with God’s Grace, to give them Life.
I agree wholeheartedly with President Trump in making IVF available and more affordable to all.
Parents, especially those who are demonstrably willing to undergo any and all hardships in order to conceive, should be encouraged! We need more Babies!
I have 3 adorable cousins myself born with IVF. My belief is not that they shouldn’t exist. Every human life is a blessing. No doubt about it. But Is it really that arrogant not to belive in destroying tiny forms of human life which is the case with IVF? Many embryos = life is created to make way for one born child. The other embryos are discarded or frozen in time.
The fertilized egg cannot grow without being implanted in the Mother’s womb, and is therefore not viable on its own. This happens in Nature too.
If people realized how many fertilized eggs get washed away with the woman's period because it failed to implant, they wouldn't get so worked up over ivf because it happens constantly in nature, and they wouldn't call it an embryo because it's not at the embryo stage yet.
Natural causes are not the same as man made causes and an egg is not the same as an embryo. Fertilized eggs are already in the first stage of life. There is no turning back from that. If that life is not given a chance to grow into maturity then it’s basically destroyed.
ivf isn't embryo's though, that's what people here fail to understand. the ivf discard stage happens at the exact stage we just pointed out, the same stage the human body discards these FERTILIZED eggs constantly. I'm old, eggs aren't going to implant reliably in my uterus. All the eggs my husband fertilizes are being thrown away by my body. Failure to understand this is failure to properly understand what's happening with ivf.
True that it can not grow outside the womb. It can however be fertilized in an Petri dish and once this happens you’re at the beginning of life.
I wish he did this in 2016 I would have children. Our population is dying because infertility is an epidemic. maybe it is personal to me. since all I wanted in life was kids. Blah.
Upvoted in support of principled disagreement. Now that MAGA is mainstream and "our guy" is in the White House, it is important that we continue to allow sane, non-malicious, principled voices that disagree with some element of the common interpretation of "our" paradigm. We aren't social insects and we won't all have the same opinions on everything.
I wouldn't even mention that -- it's not a new idea to anyone here -- except for a post by ifififififokiedokie that arrived a couple of hours before this one, concerned about censorship here at GA.
I don't have a problem with IVF (with a huge percentage of the population now COVID-jabbed, I fear many will NEED all the help they can get to have children) -- but then, I haven't researched IVF the way Saltyarmyanon has.
Thank you for being open to discussion. As my title mentioned MAGA is split on this issues I too was pro IVF up until I started looking at the dark side of it. If one believes life starts at conception it’s hard to look the other way on this one. So much life has been frozen in time and discarded. What happens to all those little souls in the universe? They each have sparks of God manifested into life and then was put out by no fault on their own. I marvel at the universe and God’s creations and I really think we need to be more careful with technology matters as they often overrule the will of God. At the very least IVF needs to be regulated. Too many designer babies and excessive embryos created for no valid reason. At minimum selective discarding should be outright banned.
Nothing wrong with a healthy conversation.. thats been a big problem in the world for a long time- the inability to do this.
is that when people make triplets and such? Idk what IVF is
It stands for In vitro fertilization. Basically it’s when sperm and eggs are being fertilized outside the womb in a petri dish creating the embryo. The problem with it is that several embryos are created - some will be discarded, or frozen in time. Many believe and Alabama Supreme Court has ruled that embryos are children albeit tiny and deserves a chance at life. POTUS just signed an order yesterday to expand IVF and make it more affordable. It was one of his later adapted campaign promises. Many Christian’s are not happy. President Trump only learned about the method last year so I honestly don’t think he understands the horror as it essentially equates to mass murder on a much larger scale than abortions ever was.
Very disappointing to see Trump sign off on this. How did he only learn about such a well known bio technology last year? You are spot on. Human life begins at conception and children become commodities in IVF. I could never look at my child day after day and know that several siblings were now sacrificed or in a limbo of deep freeze so I could have MY RIGHT to a bio-child! It's always about MY rights, and never about the rights and dignity of helpless, dependent children. God is out of the picture. Pure selfishness, no matter how much virtue signaling tries to cover that up.
IVF is not going away. People picking this fight could be more useful in other arenas.
Discussions are important on these matters and people need to be aware that there is a dark side to IVF. If it’s here to stay then at the very least it should be regulated. No selective discarding and designer kids should be allowed.
Agree with this. People without a grounding in morals or conscience run rampant, and doctors just go with it.