Because someone said so? King James? Catholic Priests? Thomas targeted for asking questions? Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? Some sauce would be appreciated, Fren.
I know why they were rejected; didn't fit the narrative. Sound familiar?
That is the dumbest rebuttal you could possibly make regarding this issue. If you read the Gospel of Thomas, you would see how none of it lines up with the four canonic gospels. The canon was established early on by the church prior to the foundation of what we now know as Catholicism. The gospel of
Thomas is dated much later than the other gospels and it claims that ignorance is the issue that separates one from God and not sin. It was written by Gnostics and is absolutely heretical to key doctrines known in the Old and New Testament.
"kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it." Yeah, if your father is the devil, then sure.
Edit: downvote me all you want, you can't refute that "gospel" is fraudulent and retarded.
Why did Matthew need a source? He was with Jesus early on, when he heard the Sermon on the Mount in Capernaum and took good notes. Then Jesus called him to be one of the 12 from his tax collection station (probably near the Sea of Galilee where he could collect the fees from the fishermen). He wrote was he saw with his own eyes and heard with his own ears.
Luke probably had Matthew (and maybe an early version of Matthew) plus had sources from the early church. He must have interviewed Mary because her side of the story is shared.
Mark's source was Peter. Peter shared his experience orally and the early church asked Mark to write it all down.
John was with the Jesus from the earliest of days, when he was a disciple of John the Baptist and John the Baptist told his disciples that Jesus was the Son of God. His wrote his gospel much later than the other 3. He shared things from that early ministry that the others didn't know.
Keep it simple. The gospels were most likely written way earlier than the scholars have insisted on. Matthew might have been as early as 10 years after the Crucifixion, maybe he had an even earlier, shorter version. The rapidly growing church needed teaching materials, as missionaries (including many of the apostles themselves) were reaching the far corners of the known world.
Other early sources like the Didache quote Matthew. Paul likely quoted Matthew. The gospels were a lot early than we've been led to believe.
Edited to add two excellent books on the topic:
The Progressive Publication of Matthew - B. Ward Powers
Very well stated. The earliest version of Matthew was Hebrew as stated by later apostolic fathers. It was basically a collection of the sayings of Jesus in Hebrew. It was later put into a more narrative format when finally written in Greek. You are correct that this earlier Hebrew version was first and most likely written no later than 10 years after the resurrection. You are also correct that Mark was the latest of the synoptic gospels written. I don't happen to subscribe to the Markian primacy view which I think many scholars are starting to question. Luke came next and was written pretty early on and more than likely had the Hebrew Matthew as a source work. Luke more than likely wrote his first draft of his gospel during Paul's imprisonment in Caesarea; the draft of Acts was finished in Rome. Caesarea was a great opportunity for Luke to interview many eyewitnesses and family members of Jesus to get first hand accounts for his gospel.
Sounds like you have done your homework. Thank you for your input. God bless.
Deception is the main thing Jesus warned about. Stick with the Bible we know. If you believe it is God inspired then believe God had a hand in what was canonized!
https://totallythedream.com/books-removed-from-the-bible/
The List of 75 Books Removed or Excluded from the Bible
The Protevangelion
The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus King of Edessa
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)
The Apostles’ Creed (throughout history)
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca’s to Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
The Epistle of Clement
The Second Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians
The Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)
Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor
Letter of Pilate to Herod
The Lost Gospel of Peter
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
Book of Enoch 1
Book of Enoch 2 (known as The Secrets of Enoch
Enoch 3
Book of Esdras 1
Book of Esdras 2
Book of Maccabees 1
Book of Maccabees 2
Book of Maccabees 3
Book of Maccabees 4
Book of Maccabees 5
Book of Tobit
Book of Jasher
Book of Judith
Book of Esther
Book of Ecclesiasticus / Sirach
Book of Jubilees
Book of Baruch 1
Book of Barucu 2
Book of Baruch 3
Book of The Shepherd of Hermas
Book of Wisdom / Wisdom of Solomon
Book of The Psalms of Solomon
Book of The Odes of Solomon
Book of Giants
Book of Adam and Eve 1
The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan
The Gospel of James / The Protevangelion
The Gospel of Peter
The Gospel of Thomas
The Gospel of Nicodemus / Acts of Pilate
The Syriac Infancy Gospel / Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus, King of Edessa
The Epistle of Aristeas
The Epistle of Jeremiah
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca
The Epistle of Pilate to Herod
Assumption of Moses
Apocalypse of Moses
Testament of Abraham
Apocalypse of Abraham
Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
The Acts of Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
The Apostles Creed
Psalm 151
Story of Susanna*
Story of Bel and The Dragon*
Story of Ahikar*
The Prayer of Azariah and the Songs of the Three Holy Children*
Prayer of Manasseh
Discernment is the key. Men "controlled" what went into what we now know as the Bible. I believe God inspired ALL the writings and don't believe ANY should be hidden.
Of His own intention, God does not control free will, and men are either His instruments...or they are not. You are in the position of blaming God for all sin, which is heresy. The Scriptures warn of false prophecy.
Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I do not blame God for sin. Where did I say that? I said beware of deception. God gave us free will but He also gave us His Word to live by. The OT is the only scriptures that were available to the Apostles in Jesus' day and Jesus confirmed they were the Word of God. The NT we have today is in full agreement with the OT. They do give us the Spiritual aspect of God's law. The above verse from Isa 45 says God creates evil if you take it out of context. What it means is He did create the calamities and the afflictions that would come upon those who did evil. Any thing that does not agree with what the Bible teaches is FALSE.
You are careless with your words. I was reacting to your challenge: "You either believe God is in control of everything...or you don't." That is the classic atheist critical argument for the responsibility of God for the working of evil in the world IF GOD IS IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING. Not in control of free will, or there would be no free will. (The Book of Jonah is an interesting meditation on how far this goes.)
I regard God as being somewhat similar to a jazz musician, adjusting the music to changes in the situation. He always has a Plan (or Plans). And only He truly knows what it is. I therefore have faith He is watching over us with protection---but not that human beings are infallible or know everything. Making dogma out of the contention that the Q Plan is all-knowing and infallible, is making Q into an idol, and I am not comfortable with that.
As I am a Christian, you do not have to lecture me about Law and Gospel.
God sees the future as well as the past. He knows what is going to happen before it actually does. My statement was the Bible is complete as it is. 66 books--39 Ot and 27 NT. The last few verses of Revelation say add nothing nor subtract anything from this Book.
The fall of Adam and Eve might be a counter-argument to such foreknowledge, but you can ponder it. Or the failure of Mosaic Law to provide salvation, necessitating God personally intervening to rectify matters. The completeness of the Bible was not at issue, and the Book of Revelation is part of it. I did not make any comment on either in the context of our conversation.
"I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others"
"I want to tell you how welcome you are to the White House. I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
The book of Enoch existed. Jesus quoted from it. It's quite interesting. It was also found in the dead sea scrolls along with the book of Isaiah. Also exists in the Ethiopian bible which probably made it to Ethiopia with christian eunuchs who were set free.
yes, ^ comes up occasionally, and it's the Best Coincidence. I've been researching this regularly since
2017...it has changed my life, while also giving a context to our Q. It's SIMPLY the common verses, yet people who haven't studied it, might not realize that...
Everyone needs to be familiar with the verses in the common material between Matthew and Luke;
you're welcome! it's my favorite subject, so I love to talk about it.
helpful video below, and he provides a written guide...so you can use your Own Bible to read the verses known as the Q-Source>
people search for the 'mysterious' written document, but that misses the point; this is inspired text/code given to more than one human scribe; supernatural communication with God from within✨ as it should be...
The source for each of the Gospels according to the bible is God. Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The other gospels were not the source for each other.
Christ didn’t just love and preach to the people in the countries of the New Testament. He said “other sheep have I.” Why would he not bring his message to all the world? I believe he did just that after his resurrection. He was resurrected but his body still bore the injuries of the nails and spear. These were left unhealed to be another testament that it was indeed Him who was the son of God, who was crucified and many will be shocked and have a full realization.
The Gnostic gospels are fake & were rejected, Q is missing because it never existed.
Because someone said so? King James? Catholic Priests? Thomas targeted for asking questions? Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? Some sauce would be appreciated, Fren.
I know why they were rejected; didn't fit the narrative. Sound familiar?
Thanks for teaching the Scofield Bible Babblers.
GOSPELOFTHOMAS on Bitchute https://www.bitchute.com/hashtag/gospelofthomas/
SCOFIELD BIBLE https://www.bitchute.com/search?query=scofield+sparemethelies&kind=video&sensitivity_id=normal&duration=all&sort=new
this is how its done
That is the dumbest rebuttal you could possibly make regarding this issue. If you read the Gospel of Thomas, you would see how none of it lines up with the four canonic gospels. The canon was established early on by the church prior to the foundation of what we now know as Catholicism. The gospel of
Thomas is dated much later than the other gospels and it claims that ignorance is the issue that separates one from God and not sin. It was written by Gnostics and is absolutely heretical to key doctrines known in the Old and New Testament.
"kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it." Yeah, if your father is the devil, then sure.
Edit: downvote me all you want, you can't refute that "gospel" is fraudulent and retarded.
Murder as the winning argument aside, Anthropromorphism is idolatry. The winning narrative of the Roman Catholic hyperdispensation.
Big words that mean things.
Exactly...
I think it best that you don’t confuse Q of the Bible with Q of the Q drops.
Think of Q of the Q drops more in tune with Q Clearance than the Bible.
Now, why the Q? Well, Q is the mathematical symbol for heat. Once I found this out, this became one of my favorite Q drops.
u/#q2830
Aslan speaks the truth. Ck the dates of writting for one
Why did Matthew need a source? He was with Jesus early on, when he heard the Sermon on the Mount in Capernaum and took good notes. Then Jesus called him to be one of the 12 from his tax collection station (probably near the Sea of Galilee where he could collect the fees from the fishermen). He wrote was he saw with his own eyes and heard with his own ears.
Luke probably had Matthew (and maybe an early version of Matthew) plus had sources from the early church. He must have interviewed Mary because her side of the story is shared.
Mark's source was Peter. Peter shared his experience orally and the early church asked Mark to write it all down.
John was with the Jesus from the earliest of days, when he was a disciple of John the Baptist and John the Baptist told his disciples that Jesus was the Son of God. His wrote his gospel much later than the other 3. He shared things from that early ministry that the others didn't know.
Keep it simple. The gospels were most likely written way earlier than the scholars have insisted on. Matthew might have been as early as 10 years after the Crucifixion, maybe he had an even earlier, shorter version. The rapidly growing church needed teaching materials, as missionaries (including many of the apostles themselves) were reaching the far corners of the known world.
Other early sources like the Didache quote Matthew. Paul likely quoted Matthew. The gospels were a lot early than we've been led to believe.
Edited to add two excellent books on the topic:
The Progressive Publication of Matthew - B. Ward Powers
A Trustworthy Gospel - Daniel Moore
Very well stated. The earliest version of Matthew was Hebrew as stated by later apostolic fathers. It was basically a collection of the sayings of Jesus in Hebrew. It was later put into a more narrative format when finally written in Greek. You are correct that this earlier Hebrew version was first and most likely written no later than 10 years after the resurrection. You are also correct that Mark was the latest of the synoptic gospels written. I don't happen to subscribe to the Markian primacy view which I think many scholars are starting to question. Luke came next and was written pretty early on and more than likely had the Hebrew Matthew as a source work. Luke more than likely wrote his first draft of his gospel during Paul's imprisonment in Caesarea; the draft of Acts was finished in Rome. Caesarea was a great opportunity for Luke to interview many eyewitnesses and family members of Jesus to get first hand accounts for his gospel.
Sounds like you have done your homework. Thank you for your input. God bless.
I don't believe in the "Q" source for Matthew. This is what I think happened:
Btw: Gospel of Thomas was a complete fiction, not written by Thomas
Deception is the main thing Jesus warned about. Stick with the Bible we know. If you believe it is God inspired then believe God had a hand in what was canonized!
God had a hand in what was canonized>
And men had a hand in what wasn't.
https://totallythedream.com/books-removed-from-the-bible/ The List of 75 Books Removed or Excluded from the Bible The Protevangelion The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ The Infancy Gospel of Thomas The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus King of Edessa The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate) The Apostles’ Creed (throughout history) The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca’s to Paul The Acts of Paul and Thecla The Epistle of Clement The Second Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians The Epistle of Barnabas The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes) Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor Letter of Pilate to Herod The Lost Gospel of Peter The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians Book of Enoch 1 Book of Enoch 2 (known as The Secrets of Enoch Enoch 3 Book of Esdras 1 Book of Esdras 2 Book of Maccabees 1 Book of Maccabees 2 Book of Maccabees 3 Book of Maccabees 4 Book of Maccabees 5 Book of Tobit Book of Jasher Book of Judith Book of Esther Book of Ecclesiasticus / Sirach Book of Jubilees Book of Baruch 1 Book of Barucu 2 Book of Baruch 3 Book of The Shepherd of Hermas Book of Wisdom / Wisdom of Solomon Book of The Psalms of Solomon Book of The Odes of Solomon Book of Giants Book of Adam and Eve 1 The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan The Gospel of James / The Protevangelion The Gospel of Peter The Gospel of Thomas The Gospel of Nicodemus / Acts of Pilate The Syriac Infancy Gospel / Infancy of Jesus Christ The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus, King of Edessa The Epistle of Aristeas The Epistle of Jeremiah The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca The Epistle of Pilate to Herod Assumption of Moses Apocalypse of Moses Testament of Abraham Apocalypse of Abraham Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs The Acts of Paul The Acts of Paul and Thecla The Apostles Creed Psalm 151 Story of Susanna* Story of Bel and The Dragon* Story of Ahikar* The Prayer of Azariah and the Songs of the Three Holy Children* Prayer of Manasseh
I have faith that God is in control and what is in our Bible is what He wanted us to have.
Discernment is the key. Men "controlled" what went into what we now know as the Bible. I believe God inspired ALL the writings and don't believe ANY should be hidden.
You either believe God is in control of everything ---watching over His Word---or you don't!
Of His own intention, God does not control free will, and men are either His instruments...or they are not. You are in the position of blaming God for all sin, which is heresy. The Scriptures warn of false prophecy.
Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I do not blame God for sin. Where did I say that? I said beware of deception. God gave us free will but He also gave us His Word to live by. The OT is the only scriptures that were available to the Apostles in Jesus' day and Jesus confirmed they were the Word of God. The NT we have today is in full agreement with the OT. They do give us the Spiritual aspect of God's law. The above verse from Isa 45 says God creates evil if you take it out of context. What it means is He did create the calamities and the afflictions that would come upon those who did evil. Any thing that does not agree with what the Bible teaches is FALSE.
You are careless with your words. I was reacting to your challenge: "You either believe God is in control of everything...or you don't." That is the classic atheist critical argument for the responsibility of God for the working of evil in the world IF GOD IS IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING. Not in control of free will, or there would be no free will. (The Book of Jonah is an interesting meditation on how far this goes.)
I regard God as being somewhat similar to a jazz musician, adjusting the music to changes in the situation. He always has a Plan (or Plans). And only He truly knows what it is. I therefore have faith He is watching over us with protection---but not that human beings are infallible or know everything. Making dogma out of the contention that the Q Plan is all-knowing and infallible, is making Q into an idol, and I am not comfortable with that.
As I am a Christian, you do not have to lecture me about Law and Gospel.
God sees the future as well as the past. He knows what is going to happen before it actually does. My statement was the Bible is complete as it is. 66 books--39 Ot and 27 NT. The last few verses of Revelation say add nothing nor subtract anything from this Book.
The fall of Adam and Eve might be a counter-argument to such foreknowledge, but you can ponder it. Or the failure of Mosaic Law to provide salvation, necessitating God personally intervening to rectify matters. The completeness of the Bible was not at issue, and the Book of Revelation is part of it. I did not make any comment on either in the context of our conversation.
And all doorways should be open? Even those to heresy and Hell? How do you know your belief is correct?
Thomas Jefferson would disagree, he told us of the 'corruptions of Christianity'...
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-40-02-0178-0001
"I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others"
Thomas Jefferson was just a man and not some great theologian. Religion corrupted Christianity. The Word of God is true and faithful.
funny how people get perturbed with the mention of the Jefferson Bible.
especially on a Q board...
Q thinks JFK = Awesome
JFK thought Thomas Jefferson = Awesome
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-dinner-honoring-nobel-prize-winners-the-western-hemisphere
"I want to tell you how welcome you are to the White House. I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
Jefferson was a great Patriot but he was not a spiritual leader by any means.
yeah that's not something I can explain, if you're not able to 'see' that side of him...
Monticello was helpful if you're inclined to visit.
The book of Enoch existed. Jesus quoted from it. It's quite interesting. It was also found in the dead sea scrolls along with the book of Isaiah. Also exists in the Ethiopian bible which probably made it to Ethiopia with christian eunuchs who were set free.
yes, ^ comes up occasionally, and it's the Best Coincidence. I've been researching this regularly since 2017...it has changed my life, while also giving a context to our Q. It's SIMPLY the common verses, yet people who haven't studied it, might not realize that...
Everyone needs to be familiar with the verses in the common material between Matthew and Luke;
AKA the Q-Source
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/q.html
Interesting! Thank Q!
you're welcome! it's my favorite subject, so I love to talk about it.
helpful video below, and he provides a written guide...so you can use your Own Bible to read the verses known as the Q-Source>
people search for the 'mysterious' written document, but that misses the point; this is inspired text/code given to more than one human scribe; supernatural communication with God from within✨ as it should be...
https://youtu.be/Zua__tpFvXo?
The source for each of the Gospels according to the bible is God. Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The other gospels were not the source for each other.
Holy men of God existed throughout the world and throughout all traditions. They were moved by the Holy Spirit as well but did not call it that.
Where did Jesus quote enoch? If he did ill consider it.
Christ didn’t just love and preach to the people in the countries of the New Testament. He said “other sheep have I.” Why would he not bring his message to all the world? I believe he did just that after his resurrection. He was resurrected but his body still bore the injuries of the nails and spear. These were left unhealed to be another testament that it was indeed Him who was the son of God, who was crucified and many will be shocked and have a full realization.
https://faculty.uml.edu/ethan_spanier/Teaching/documents/TheCodexTheodosianus.pdf?t&utm_source=perplexity Attached is a summary document from UMass history department that shows what REALLY happened at the 4th century councils. 3 pages. It shows many threats and charges to any early followers who did not buy into the “approved” program re books in cannon, etc.
I need to do more research.
PBS Link https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/qthomas.html#:~:text=The%20answer%20appears%20to%20be,the%20German%20word%20for%20source.
About 3:20 or so Q mentioned https://youtu.be/lPhiVT53JP0?si=cF0VLBx9RzhmIMEi
PBS?!
Exactly why I need to do more research.