Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò dropping bombs!
(twitter.com)
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It was cut short. Was this done on purpose? Didn't he refuse to go to the Vatican some time ago under the last pope?
Thank you. Somehow I missed the actual excommunication. This x video was confusing.
I am surprised they haven’t murdered him.
Well, they were about to, but then they read the 10 commandments.
Outsourcing it to those who nose. Like they did when funding The pedo wannabe prothet Muhammad.
That's why he's still in hiding...
Should've been Pope.
By the way, curious: Is it at all possible for an excommunicated Catholic to be...um, re-communicated?
Yes.
Neat, cool to know.
Forgiving the unforgivable, as long as it’s genuinely repented is a consistent theme of the whole Christianity thing. It’s what they do.
No other religion I’m aware of does that. The church at Rome, however is currently (since Pascha of 1054) out of communion with the actual legitimate Church but if they sincerely repent of their multitudinous heresies they can return to the unity of Truth. There’s always a chance…. lol
There's more than one thing Pascha could mean here, so...fill me in? What happened in 1054?
Pascha is “Easter”. 1054 was the year of the “great schism” between East and West. Of the 5 Christian Churches: Antioch Jerusalem Alexandria Constantinople and Rome which had established the dogmas of Christianity through seven ecumenical councils in 1054 Rome insisted on being “first among equals” and also had erred theologically and philosophically from prior mutual agreements. Rome sent a legate to Constantinople and he pointedly placed the excommunication order on the altar during the Divine Liturgy on Paschal Sunday. Bold!
The dogmatic disagreements concerned “original sin” in which Rome believed and whether Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father AND the Son (the so called “filioque”) and the “immaculate conception” by Joachim and Anna of Mary herself. These errors are ascribed to Augustine of Hippo’s poor translation of Greek. Nevertheless since then Western Christianity has been more legalistic while Eastern Christianity has been more therapeutic. As in “I’m not bad, I’m afflicted”. Sin isn’t the same as crime it’s more like the inevitable result of our fallen human nature. Chris came to heal us, and liberate us, not accuse and punish us. (That’s Satan’s job.) It’s a different approach. Thus, according to the East Rome through its errors has spawned thousands of illegitimate offspring, now known as “denominations”. Presbyterians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Seventh Day Adventists, Methodists, Pentecostalists, Jehovas Witnesses, etc. etc. etc. there are thousands of these communities calling themselves churches. There’s only one Church. The body of Christ. (Or so the story goes.)
My worthless opinion is more generous as I’m a more universalist type who believes God has plans we cant possibly anticipate which required all this to occur for the fulfillment of universal salvation. Also known as the fulfillment of the gentiles, (nations, all of them). The Parousia (second coming) will imho be facilitated by a worldwide communications network which without western technological innovation would be practically impossible. So, maybe it was all meant to be and we’re getting close. I guess we’ll see.
“I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.” — Nicene Creed.
You asked. Here’s your answer. Please don’t be offended. It’s not the intent.
No matter where. Once communists gain power, they never peacefully relinquish their power.
They did it to ST. Joan of Arc then reversed the excommunication after they killed her and canonized her a saint in 1920!! Following her execution in 1431, her mother worked to clear her name. A retrial, ordered by Pope Callixtus III, exonerated her and declared her a martyr in 1456.
Didnt watch but I get the sense Vigano is a "limited hangout" (i.e. someone who mostly tells the truth but is deflecting from a major issue)
This major issue is his theological position which takes Catholics into the nowhere zone position of the SSPX recognize-and-resist "schism"; i.e. he was recognizing Francis previously as "pope" but then disobeying him. Either he had to obey or if he didn't think he was a pope then join us sedevacantists. He is promoting in our view a contradictory theological position, acting as a modern Archbishop Lefebvre
Instead my view, contrary to a lot of other sedevacantists, is we probably need to get all the Vatican 2 supporters to reject Vatican 2 and then elect an actually Catholic pope.
Vigano by recognizing a "pope" and celebrating excommunication in this way undermines Catholic obedience and the beliefs about the papacy and leads Catholics away from a position that resolves the Crisis going on. He affirms the "Communists" who took over the Vatican have a right to be there and rule as "popes", while he is "excommunicated" for being "faithful". So he is basically selling the idea for faithful Catholics to think of themselves as excommunicates of a pope they recognize. This allows Catholics to be maeginalized and for "Communists" to continue to rule the Vatican without a challenge.
(If Vigano isn't purposely deflecting, I'd simply hold his view as mistaken then. I also don't know if he has changed his views over the last year)
Just read through the ENTIRE Bible, and you will absolutely conclude that there is virtually no theological justification for the Catholic church and many of their practices. Most Catholics have never read through the Bible. Those who do, start to question things.
u/The_Watcher
Obviously these are complicated conversations but I got in to a conversation with a protestant about Purgatory. Apparently there is a passage in Maccabees (1 or 2?) that supports the idea of praying for the dead (supporting Catholic beliefs).
However, most protestants have omitted the books of Maccabees from their Bibles and don't consider them to be "canonical". Hence immediately this calls in to question who has the authority to decide what is and isn't Scripture.
The Catholic side here would argue that the protestants are simply omitting the books as they contradict their beliefs. The protestant side argues these books are being omitted for various reasons the believe to be sincere.
Anyway, I guess the point is that people disagree about what Scripture is canonical so it can be difficult to appeal to the Scripture for answers to some of these questions since different groups have decided what is canonical or not
(Catholic encyclopedia on Prayers for the Dead entry: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04653a.htm)
Things are never easy. According to AI:
Protestants have 39 books in their Old Testament, Catholics have 46, and Orthodox Christians may have up to 53. The key difference lies in the inclusion of additional books in the Christian Old Testament, known as the Deuterocanonical Books (or Apocrypha), which are accepted as canonical by Catholics and Orthodox Christians but not by Jews or most Protestants
Beyond scripture, it's the whole idea of having some large, over-reaching government authority (The Vatican) over a Christian denomination, and the Catholic church's fairly rigorous set of practices. Jesus came to do away with the "religious" practices of the Jews, emphasizing close fellowship with fellow believers, one-on-one fellowship with God, and very limited "churchiness". The Catholic church seems to be just a Christian version of ancient Judaism.
Reading the Bible is what made me Catholic as a former Protestant. It’s so funny how arrogant Protestants are about reading the Bible especially when Luther wanted to remove James cause he couldn’t even use scripture to justify it.
And the authority from the Apostles is backed by scripture. And without a central authority to settle disputes heresy spreads. Even Jesus said to settle disputes at the Church if necessary.
And as we see with Protestantism they never stop breaking about from each other. The Anglican Church just split again lol. This is why Sola Scriptura falls apart. Also with the historical fact that the Church came BEFORE the Bible.
Protestantism places the individual as the ultimate authority because it reduces everything to individual interpretation of scripture which is why most of Protestantism is overrun with LGBTQ and worship of 1948 Israel. Since Protestants do not have apostolic succession or authority through the combination of ecumenical councils and scripture Protestants just bend with the wind like for example with contraception which significantly lead to the demographic and moral decline of the west.
Saying Jesus wanted us to have “limited Churchness” is ridiculous and to believe that is to basically say Jesus, the apostles and the early church fathers and Christians were all wrong. What do you think Christians did before the Bible came? From Pentecost to when the Bible was canonized?
I mean the most important sacraments the Eucharist and Baptism have to be done with a Priest. Jesus says “unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have no life in you” John 6:53. So not sure how we are supposed to be less “Churchness”.
And yes that is the whole point of the New Testament. Jesus is the fulfillment of the covenant of Abraham and the early Church emerged from the 2nd temple Judaism. So yes we have some liturgical similarities of the real Jewish people.
You are the first person I have ever encountered who was once a Protestant and became a Catholic! All the people who I have met who dealt with the two are former Catholics who feel they have been freed when they were baptized as a believing Christian (do you really think infant baptism is Biblically justified?) Do you feel that praying to Mary is Biblically justified? Do you feel the regimented practices of Catholics is Biblically justified?
I agree. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that there must be a (literal) hierarchy to rule the Christians and that those in charge should be provided with their own palaces at the expense of ordinary Christians.
However, when someone spotted a power vacuum they were happy to fill it and, if something gains a degree of power, those seeking power will gravitate towards it.
The same thing happened to Greenpeace. It started as an organisation to "look after the planet" but when it gained power it attracted those who sought power.
I asked Grok, and it said no, there was no recent arrest of Slade Sohmer, who was arrested on November 10, 2023. Grok says this is an old video clip. Slade WAS a friend of John Podesta, and he was caught by police with Videos of toddlers (3–4 years old) being raped; he is still awaiting trial. And Vigano was excommunicated back on on July 5, 2024. We still hear from Vigano, so he was not silenced.
I heard of his arrest before this but I just looked it up for any updates. It appears he recently was sentenced only to five years probation. Wow.
https://archive.ph/P76Fb
I wish we could see the full clip.