This passage in Romans speaks of the Israelites. Though many/most of the Jews in Israel may be Ashkenazi, we could expect that there is a remnant that remains. Rom 9-11 makes it quite clear that God is not done with Israel. Yes, they are in utter rebellion to God now, but that has happened in the past, and history shows us that He has brought them to brokenness and repentance, after great suffering.
Romans 11:1-6,25-32
I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah---how he appealed to God against Israel: [3] "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me" ? [4] And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." [5] So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. [6] And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. ....... [25] I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. [26] And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. [27] And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." [28] As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, [29] for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. [30] Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, [31] so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. [32] For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Besides, the Khazars intermarried with other Jews and so the Ashkenazi have bloodlines that go back to Biblical Jews. Nobody can demonstrate how the Khazars could have been counted as Jews if they were unwilling to integrate with all other Jews, because they weren't.
I always thought it interesting that Bulan means Elk in old Tutkish....only because in prior meetings of Elites, a Rothschild wears ceremonial mask of an Elk...the symbolism of it has stuck in my mind at very least as notable.
Yes there a lot about Bulan's time that many don't note...one being local synagogues where being sacked and in so doing most Hebrew birth records were wiped out as well...
So a lot of modern Jews are indeed the descendants of people who converted, but a bunch are the real deal as well. It is not illegal to do DNA testing in Israel. A great book that dives deep into all of this is 'The Invention of the Jewish People'.
The question will always be, was it legal to sieze the land of Palestine from the people living there back in 1948? If not, how do we proceed now that tens of millions of people live there now because they thought they were just following their holy book? Where would they even go? Can the descendants of the former inhabitants that were pushed out be made whole through monetary compensation?
If these questions can not be answered than the never ending war will continue. If the people of Israel ever let down their guard, they will be annihilated. One can understand their militancy. Constant war will do that.
You can't even type in the two words that start with the letter "J" in the search engine because this forum CENSORED IT!!! Shows how which types of people runs this forum
Even American Indians would be disposed if the original tribes of those who emigrated over the Bering Straits claimed hegemony. How far back can we go?
According to Y-DNA, there have been at least three separate influxes of people from Asia. The last group came across hundreds of years ago in the winter so they could cross on ice. This was way after the land bridge had disappeared. They came across the continent conquering. They conquered the mound builders near the Mississippi River and drove them into Georgia.
Look up the "Red Book." Here's a quote from Google:
"The "Red Book" in Native history generally refers to the Wallam Olum (or The Red Record), a 3,000-year-old oral and pictographic history of the Leni Lenape (Delaware) people, recording their creation, migration, and genealogies on birch bark. It detailed a migration from the northwest, a great flood, and the eventual arrival of European settlers."
I have a copy of a translation of that book, and it has a pretty detailed history.
Thanks. There is a biologist, Nathaniel Jeanson, who has studied the Y-DNA extensively. He works with the people at the Ark Encounter in KY and a website called "AnswersInGenesis.com." I have his book called "Traced." Excellent reference book.
Very interesting. But the argument on both sides is moot. Virtually all countries and borders are determined by war. Winner owns the land. There is no such thing as stolen land. They fought and lost. Of course, the French just surrendered and let others fight for them.
Dispensational water baptists will never give up making these frauds relevant to justify their false end time prophecy.
Besides, why would you idolize a people that are antichrists and want to make Anglos extinct because they full well know who the descendants of Jacob are?
My advice, knock off the Scofield Bible commentary and ditch water immersion as a basis for salvation.
Get on with Holy Spirit immersion already!
Acts 1:5
But you can't can you? It would mean admitting that your doctrine has in many cases, proven to be wrong.
another big difference is that before dispensational-theology came along (developed in Britain by John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren 1820s and 1830), Christians believe that Christ would return when the duty of evangelizing all peoples and nations was complete completed. Dispensationalism believe that Christ can come when certain prophecies are fulfilled, like the coming of the antichrist or a building of the third temple, return of the Jews to the holy land…
Some people argue that since Christ could be becoming at any moment now, that Christians do not need to be active in certain ways in politics because Christ is coming anyways. Others who opposed dispensationalism argue that the theology makes people lazy., Christ is coming soon, so why get a degree and medicine or law and influence people just follow Jesus live a simple life and Jesus is coming soon. Maybe these ideas influenced people during the Jesus movement. I don’t know how much wasn’t living then, but plenty of dispensational lists, believe in influencing and impacting the world.
Senate Majority Leader Thune, his alma mater is dispensationalist, founded a year before the Scofield Bible was first printed (1908)
also Moody Bible Institue, Dallas theological Seminary = dispensational
Yeah dispensationalism does make people lazy and passive.
(… so do TV and other mediums, smacks self.)
I’d also like to see people learning the Bible’s business teachings again…
What I’ve run into on this site that I don’t get is that I don’t like dispensationalism, and Catholics don’t, but then there’s some weird disagreement about what it is or something that I don’t understand.
maybe the confusion has to do with dispensationalism teaching that God deals separately over the ages with people through seven different stewardship arrangements where during each dispensation God tests, a person or a group of people with one specific revelation.
innocence in the garden of Eden
Conscience from the Fall in the Garden up until the Flood
human government (Noah: 2 instructions, not eat meat like some do with the blood & punish murderers)
Abrahamic Covenant - walk in God’s ways, to the promised land…covenant of circumcision, passed to the 12 Tribes
Dispensation of the Law, Torah with Moses
Dispensation of Grace, church age, between the 69 & 70th weeks of Daniel 9:24 ending with the rapture of the church I Thessalonians 4
the Millenial Kingdom of Christ ____
in contrast, Covenant Theology teaches God has always been dealing with people by grace and the church is the continuation and fulfillment of Israel spiritually and there is a unified people of God with Christ fulfilling the promises of the Old Testament. There are not two separate destinies and not really a restoration of descendants of Abraham getting back the land that was promised Abraham
Yeah, the footnotes, but what I mean is what specific ideas are people pointing at that came from those footnotes that are a problem, and are they being taught in seminary or what?
Went ahead and grabbed some AI notes, would you say this is the issue? If so, I’d tend to agree most of that is bunk. (Not necessarily the Kingdom of God point, but the rest)
Criticisms of the Scofield Reference Bible
The Scofield Reference Bible has faced significant criticism for its promotion of dispensationalism, which many consider a false doctrine. Below are key areas where critics argue that the Bible introduces errors.
Key Doctrinal Errors (Doctrine - Criticism)
Dispensationalism - Critics argue that this system misinterprets biblical prophecy and the nature of God's covenant.
Kingdom of God - Scofield's notes suggest a future earthly kingdom, which some believe contradicts New Testament teachings.
Role of Israel - His interpretation emphasizes a unique role for modern Israel, leading to uncritical support for the state of Israel.
Specific Issues Highlighted
Old vs. New Testament > * Relationship: Critics claim that Scofield's notes create unnecessary divisions between the Old and New Testaments, undermining the continuity of God's plan.
Misinterpretation of Scripture: Some argue that Scofield's annotations distort the meaning of key biblical texts, particularly regarding prophecies and the fulfillment of God's promises.
Influence on Christian Zionism: The Scofield Bible has been linked to the rise of Christian Zionism, which promotes the belief that God demands support for the modern state of Israel, often at the expense of Palestinian rights.
Conclusion
The Scofield Reference Bible is viewed by many as a source of doctrinal confusion within Christianity, particularly regarding eschatology and the interpretation of Israel's role in biblical prophecy. Critics maintain that its teachings can lead to significant theological errors and misapplications of scripture.
First of all I like the way you're leaning into this. Every new day could be a new experience through the Spirit of God.
He is the quintessential teacher, intermediary, comforter, protector and guide in our lives but we always need to be mindful that he's around He's with us He's showing us things we just have to be looking out for that.
You're right about the scriptural commentary and those that have adopted that sort of I don't know what to call it, doctrine, that pastors like John hagee and others have adopted as practically complete idolatry of the so-called Israel the Middle East which is a misnomer because those people that are living in the Middle East they're not descendants of Jacob.
Just remember if you run across the scripture I will bless them the bless thee and curse them that curses thee has nothing to do with with the state of Israel but rather the Christ all has to do with Jesus the Christ whoever blesses him will be blessed he who curses him will be cursed.
So many different people crisscrossed and conquered Canaan that the place is really a blend. I have no idea if any original Palestinians are left in Israel or if they have all been pushed out into Gaza or killed by now. And the immigrant Jewish converts could be from all over, as well. Genetics don't keep people in groups so much as narratives do, like religious tradition and stories. Personally I think God is omnipresent and too big to fit in a religion. To condemn all people outside your own faith is ungodly. But it's hard to see that conundrum ever ending.
I’m trying to understand the logic behind this claim, and something doesn’t add up to me.
If Jewish communities have maintained the same religion, core traditions, texts, and identity across thousands of years, often under extreme persecution, why would it suddenly hinge on whether their DNA is identical to people from ancient times? Continuity of a people has never been purely genetic. It’s also cultural, religious, and historical.
Also, if the argument is that identity only “counts” when there’s a direct genetic match, that raises a bigger question. Does that mean God values people based on DNA rather than their beliefs, actions, and faith? That doesn’t seem consistent with how most religious traditions, including Judaism and Christianity, understand moral worth.
And if we apply that same standard consistently, most modern Christians wouldn’t be considered connected to the earliest Christians either, since the religion spread across entirely different populations over time. Yet no one argues they aren’t “real” Christians because of that.
So I’m genuinely asking, why does this standard get applied here in a way it isn’t applied anywhere else?
Jesus is a Jew. Accept Jesus and we get the benefits of Jesus being a Jew. This is why fake Jews hate Jesus. We are washed in His blood. His Sacrifice.
my dna claims I am Ashkenazi Jew but so called Jews would say I am not a Jew at all. I do not care what they think. Most of them are very bitter people and hateful from growing up around them. I was the outcast because I would always ask questions and even when I was young I believed in God and Jesus.
The first will be last and the last first. To me just being the very last would be completely fine and I am not worthy of even being last. This is why Jesus is the way. Not religion.
my opinion. The birthright claim or the birthright blessing is a thing they always endeavor to scavenge over in the history of man. The crown to be the most glorious victim. It is bizarre but that is the truth. If you are the Jew and you brow beat others into not supporting you... that is the woke mind virus.
Cyrus Schofield was a zionist funded by the Rothschild to create a zionist friendly reference bible. The state of "israel " was funded my the Rothschild. Most of our government is now occupied by jews. Our banking system is created by a privately owned (Rothschild) banking system. You and I are caught in a trap. The best we can do is to pretend we enjoy it. Cheers
DNA would not prove anything since the Jews have intermingled with other races for nearly 2000 years. That is what the Bible says!
Jdg 3:5 And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites, Hittites, and Amorites, and Perizzites, and Hivites, and Jebusites:
Jdg 3:6 And they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons, and served their gods.
This passage in Romans speaks of the Israelites. Though many/most of the Jews in Israel may be Ashkenazi, we could expect that there is a remnant that remains. Rom 9-11 makes it quite clear that God is not done with Israel. Yes, they are in utter rebellion to God now, but that has happened in the past, and history shows us that He has brought them to brokenness and repentance, after great suffering.
Romans 11:1-6,25-32
I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah---how he appealed to God against Israel: [3] "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me" ? [4] And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." [5] So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. [6] And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. ....... [25] I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. [26] And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. [27] And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." [28] As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, [29] for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. [30] Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, [31] so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. [32] For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Besides, the Khazars intermarried with other Jews and so the Ashkenazi have bloodlines that go back to Biblical Jews. Nobody can demonstrate how the Khazars could have been counted as Jews if they were unwilling to integrate with all other Jews, because they weren't.
I always thought it interesting that Bulan means Elk in old Tutkish....only because in prior meetings of Elites, a Rothschild wears ceremonial mask of an Elk...the symbolism of it has stuck in my mind at very least as notable.
Yes there a lot about Bulan's time that many don't note...one being local synagogues where being sacked and in so doing most Hebrew birth records were wiped out as well...
"Their" plan started that long ago.
Whoa! Great catch!
That makes this photo make so much more sense.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-nLRrh_o9HI/maxresdefault.jpg
Indeed
Wow, that is interesting, now it makes sense, damn this is great info fren, another rabbit hole I now must follow. TY
So a lot of modern Jews are indeed the descendants of people who converted, but a bunch are the real deal as well. It is not illegal to do DNA testing in Israel. A great book that dives deep into all of this is 'The Invention of the Jewish People'.
The question will always be, was it legal to sieze the land of Palestine from the people living there back in 1948? If not, how do we proceed now that tens of millions of people live there now because they thought they were just following their holy book? Where would they even go? Can the descendants of the former inhabitants that were pushed out be made whole through monetary compensation?
If these questions can not be answered than the never ending war will continue. If the people of Israel ever let down their guard, they will be annihilated. One can understand their militancy. Constant war will do that.
" If these questions can not be answered than the never ending war will continue. "
Wars and rumors of wars...
...until Jesus' return.
You can't even type in the two words that start with the letter "J" in the search engine because this forum CENSORED IT!!! Shows how which types of people runs this forum
Even American Indians would be disposed if the original tribes of those who emigrated over the Bering Straits claimed hegemony. How far back can we go?
According to Y-DNA, there have been at least three separate influxes of people from Asia. The last group came across hundreds of years ago in the winter so they could cross on ice. This was way after the land bridge had disappeared. They came across the continent conquering. They conquered the mound builders near the Mississippi River and drove them into Georgia.
Look up the "Red Book." Here's a quote from Google:
"The "Red Book" in Native history generally refers to the Wallam Olum (or The Red Record), a 3,000-year-old oral and pictographic history of the Leni Lenape (Delaware) people, recording their creation, migration, and genealogies on birch bark. It detailed a migration from the northwest, a great flood, and the eventual arrival of European settlers."
I have a copy of a translation of that book, and it has a pretty detailed history.
interesting book reference for Leni Lenape history
Take my upvote!
Thanks. There is a biologist, Nathaniel Jeanson, who has studied the Y-DNA extensively. He works with the people at the Ark Encounter in KY and a website called "AnswersInGenesis.com." I have his book called "Traced." Excellent reference book.
Here is a good listen. Brave and Wise men are speaking out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcJQ4UFxaiU
More eye opening Conversations by Americans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6rUe7P-Yw
Thx fren.
Very interesting. But the argument on both sides is moot. Virtually all countries and borders are determined by war. Winner owns the land. There is no such thing as stolen land. They fought and lost. Of course, the French just surrendered and let others fight for them.
I did not know that he wrote "The Thirteenth Tribe 1976 Explores the history and legacy of the Khazar Empire."
I remember his "Darkness at Noon 1940 An anti-totalitarian novel reflecting Koestler's disillusionment with Communism." I have it on my shelf.
https://nitter.net/forbiddenmerch/status/2046207958602625288?s=20
...mostly accurate...
Dispensational water baptists will never give up making these frauds relevant to justify their false end time prophecy.
Besides, why would you idolize a people that are antichrists and want to make Anglos extinct because they full well know who the descendants of Jacob are?
My advice, knock off the Scofield Bible commentary and ditch water immersion as a basis for salvation.
Get on with Holy Spirit immersion already! Acts 1:5
But you can't can you? It would mean admitting that your doctrine has in many cases, proven to be wrong.
Challenge your pastor for once.
When people point at the Scofield Bible, what ideas exactly are they pointing at?
For something with so much alleged influence, I’ve never even seen one, that I’m aware of.
another big difference is that before dispensational-theology came along (developed in Britain by John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren 1820s and 1830), Christians believe that Christ would return when the duty of evangelizing all peoples and nations was complete completed. Dispensationalism believe that Christ can come when certain prophecies are fulfilled, like the coming of the antichrist or a building of the third temple, return of the Jews to the holy land…
Some people argue that since Christ could be becoming at any moment now, that Christians do not need to be active in certain ways in politics because Christ is coming anyways. Others who opposed dispensationalism argue that the theology makes people lazy., Christ is coming soon, so why get a degree and medicine or law and influence people just follow Jesus live a simple life and Jesus is coming soon. Maybe these ideas influenced people during the Jesus movement. I don’t know how much wasn’t living then, but plenty of dispensational lists, believe in influencing and impacting the world.
Senate Majority Leader Thune, his alma mater is dispensationalist, founded a year before the Scofield Bible was first printed (1908)
also Moody Bible Institue, Dallas theological Seminary = dispensational
Here’s a Scofield Bible notes link https://www.biblebelievers.com/scofield/Scofield_1917_Chapter_Notes.pdf
Yeah dispensationalism does make people lazy and passive.
(… so do TV and other mediums, smacks self.)
I’d also like to see people learning the Bible’s business teachings again…
What I’ve run into on this site that I don’t get is that I don’t like dispensationalism, and Catholics don’t, but then there’s some weird disagreement about what it is or something that I don’t understand.
maybe the confusion has to do with dispensationalism teaching that God deals separately over the ages with people through seven different stewardship arrangements where during each dispensation God tests, a person or a group of people with one specific revelation.
in contrast, Covenant Theology teaches God has always been dealing with people by grace and the church is the continuation and fulfillment of Israel spiritually and there is a unified people of God with Christ fulfilling the promises of the Old Testament. There are not two separate destinies and not really a restoration of descendants of Abraham getting back the land that was promised Abraham
Yes, or to put it more simply, God acts through covenant and revelation, and not by changing His mind.
agree, well said! dispensationalists would disagree, but then their ideas will be dispensed with, in time
The commentary in between the scriptures.
You probably could find that bible on line and read the commentary between or at the bottom of the scriptures.
Yeah, the footnotes, but what I mean is what specific ideas are people pointing at that came from those footnotes that are a problem, and are they being taught in seminary or what?
Went ahead and grabbed some AI notes, would you say this is the issue? If so, I’d tend to agree most of that is bunk. (Not necessarily the Kingdom of God point, but the rest)
First of all I like the way you're leaning into this. Every new day could be a new experience through the Spirit of God.
He is the quintessential teacher, intermediary, comforter, protector and guide in our lives but we always need to be mindful that he's around He's with us He's showing us things we just have to be looking out for that.
You're right about the scriptural commentary and those that have adopted that sort of I don't know what to call it, doctrine, that pastors like John hagee and others have adopted as practically complete idolatry of the so-called Israel the Middle East which is a misnomer because those people that are living in the Middle East they're not descendants of Jacob.
Just remember if you run across the scripture I will bless them the bless thee and curse them that curses thee has nothing to do with with the state of Israel but rather the Christ all has to do with Jesus the Christ whoever blesses him will be blessed he who curses him will be cursed.
Yeah, John Hagee is not my cup of tea.
So many different people crisscrossed and conquered Canaan that the place is really a blend. I have no idea if any original Palestinians are left in Israel or if they have all been pushed out into Gaza or killed by now. And the immigrant Jewish converts could be from all over, as well. Genetics don't keep people in groups so much as narratives do, like religious tradition and stories. Personally I think God is omnipresent and too big to fit in a religion. To condemn all people outside your own faith is ungodly. But it's hard to see that conundrum ever ending.
"To condemn all people outside your own faith is ungodly."
John 14:6 NIV Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus says exclusivity is His alone. Everyone without the covering of His blood is accountable to their own sins.
It won't work out for anyone.
Jesus is the ONLY way. He offers freedom from sin. We all stand condemned otherwise.
Amen!!!
I’m trying to understand the logic behind this claim, and something doesn’t add up to me.
If Jewish communities have maintained the same religion, core traditions, texts, and identity across thousands of years, often under extreme persecution, why would it suddenly hinge on whether their DNA is identical to people from ancient times? Continuity of a people has never been purely genetic. It’s also cultural, religious, and historical.
Also, if the argument is that identity only “counts” when there’s a direct genetic match, that raises a bigger question. Does that mean God values people based on DNA rather than their beliefs, actions, and faith? That doesn’t seem consistent with how most religious traditions, including Judaism and Christianity, understand moral worth.
And if we apply that same standard consistently, most modern Christians wouldn’t be considered connected to the earliest Christians either, since the religion spread across entirely different populations over time. Yet no one argues they aren’t “real” Christians because of that.
So I’m genuinely asking, why does this standard get applied here in a way it isn’t applied anywhere else?
The askanazi jews conversions were faked v to prevent invasion from Christian Kings that were sick of their satan worship.
Jesus is a Jew. Accept Jesus and we get the benefits of Jesus being a Jew. This is why fake Jews hate Jesus. We are washed in His blood. His Sacrifice.
my dna claims I am Ashkenazi Jew but so called Jews would say I am not a Jew at all. I do not care what they think. Most of them are very bitter people and hateful from growing up around them. I was the outcast because I would always ask questions and even when I was young I believed in God and Jesus.
The first will be last and the last first. To me just being the very last would be completely fine and I am not worthy of even being last. This is why Jesus is the way. Not religion.
my opinion. The birthright claim or the birthright blessing is a thing they always endeavor to scavenge over in the history of man. The crown to be the most glorious victim. It is bizarre but that is the truth. If you are the Jew and you brow beat others into not supporting you... that is the woke mind virus.
Cyrus Schofield was a zionist funded by the Rothschild to create a zionist friendly reference bible. The state of "israel " was funded my the Rothschild. Most of our government is now occupied by jews. Our banking system is created by a privately owned (Rothschild) banking system. You and I are caught in a trap. The best we can do is to pretend we enjoy it. Cheers
" Cyrus Schofield was a zionist funded by the Rothschild "
,,,valid observation...
...welcome aboard the good ship "Kayfabe"...
DNA would not prove anything since the Jews have intermingled with other races for nearly 2000 years. That is what the Bible says!
Jdg 3:5 And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites, Hittites, and Amorites, and Perizzites, and Hivites, and Jebusites: Jdg 3:6 And they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons, and served their gods.