I believe that Scofield Futurism is one of the main reasons Christianity has been so ineffective for the last 50-60 years. The unBiblical teaching of the Rapture, a Tribulation, an Anti-Christ, and that Matthew 24 and Revelation are talking about events in the future has, in essence, caused most Christians (as this Scofield doctrine has been shoved down our throats in every church and seminary for the last 100 years) to passively stand by while evil has been allowed to flourish massively...especially in the political realm.
This Dispensational, Scofield Futurism wasn't even a thing until about 100 years ago and the early church Fathers all believed...contrary to Scofield...that Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation had already occurred. This fundamental belief that Jesus had "actually" won the decisive victory 2,000 years ago when He "actually" rose from the dead was the cornerstone of faith back then. Onward Christian Soldier was the battle cry because Jesus had won the war and Christians were marching on to victory! The rest of history was just cleanup...working to spread God's Word, the message of the Gospel, and win souls for Jesus.
Most Christians today...attending 501c3 Zionist Scofield Churches...are so heavenly minded, they have become no earthly good. They are so enamored with a Rapture (being sucked up outta here before the bad stuff happens), and are so sure that an evil man called the Anti-Christ is going to actually win for a time and set up a global government that there's really no reason to fight. I mean, if the Bible teaches that a One World Government is inevitable and that the Anti-Christ is going to control the world for a 7 year period, why would you fight against something the Bible teaches is absolutely going to happen. I mean...who in their right mind thinks they are going to change Bible Prophecy...right? Hence...you have a Church that doesn't have the will to get involved politically and stop a march toward global governance.
The early Church Fathers believed that the beautiful, simple, message of the Gospel would eventually take over the world in the love and truth of Jesus Christ. This view of the end times was called "Dominion Theology," and was the pervasive belief that led to the spread of Christianity all through Europe and is the very reason why America exists today. Had the Church leaders followed the teachings of Scofield Futurists back in the day, there would have never been a Declaration of Independence or Revolutionary War! Scofield effectively "castrated" the Church...but the good news is that is changing! God is still in control and people are waking up to the Scofield hoax!
So what about Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation. Well, books have been written detailing the true meaning of each verse of these portions of Scripture and why they are not saying what Scofield says they say. A good resource for books on this subject can be found at Americanvision.org. However, if one simply pays attention to the time stamps in the context of both Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation, you can clearly see, in both instances, that the Authors are speaking of events that were going to occur very soon and in the time that Jesus disciples were living. Just read Matthew 24:34...Jesus plainly tells His disciples the following statement with regard to timing..."Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Jesus told His disciples that everything He said previously in the entire chapter of Matthew 24 would happen before their generation would pass. And it did happen when Rome sacked Jerusalem in 70AD. Christians who disbelieve how horrific this period was and that indeed everything Jesus said would happen...did indeed happen...needs to read the eyewitness account found in the writings of Josephus. Josephus was a first century Jewish historian who had a front row seat of this event. The great tribulation that is supposed to happen in the future, according to Scofield...well...that was it according to Jesus (read Matt 24:21-22). So do you believe Christ or do you belief a snake oil salesman like Scofield?
And John tells us plainly in the OPENING verses of the Book of Revelation..."The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Now do you think John would have use words like "shortly" or "the time is at hand" to describe events that are going to occur thousands of years hence? Again, the entire Book of Revelation (which was written about 66AD) was John's more detailed description of what was going to occur in Heaven and on earth when God's judgement fell on Jerusalem in 70AD. Christians today...again...in these anemic, 501c3 Scofield Futurist churches...are just not taught exactly what went on when God unleashed His wrath on Jerusalem through the armies of Rome. All I can say is that this event was the greatest, most horrific, and earth shattering event to ever occur in the history of man...and yes...that includes the Great Flood of Noah! Everyone who calls themselves a follower of Jesus should study exactly what took place when Rome laid waste to Jerusalem. I say this because you will come out the other end with a much greater appreciation for the New Covenant of Grace in which we now live and you will have a much greater understanding of where we are in the "real" timeline of God's plans for this earth and mankind.
The rapture is the greatest lie the devil has ever injected into the church. It has neutered the modern church.
No one polishes brass on a sinking ship.
Edit: here's a YT playlist of some of the best sermons, discussions, debates, and presentations on the end times.... with the best minds from all major positions represented.
These are all very well respected theologians, pastors and scholars and not some weird fringe nutters trying to sell you food buckets and prayer cloths.
Pre-mil, amil, post-mil, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, none of it matters for salvation. None of it should change your faith or how you praise Jesus. We are saved by faith and faith inspires works. Only faith saves you and only faith continues God’s will on earth.
Eschatology is given to us to inspire hope. He told us the end from the beginning to comfort us. Not to separate and judge each other. Think about it, nobody knows anything for certain regarding unfulfilled prophecy. While God has revealed enough for us to know Him by His characteristics, nobody knows His mind or how He will carry out His plans. How can we be prepared no matter what happens? Living in the Spirit of Christ.
Live in the Spirit and you will know what “you” need to know. Live in the Spirit and you will be comforted by what “you” need to be comforted with. Above all, live in the Spirit and the narrow path will be wide enough for “you”.
Pre-mil, amil, post-mil, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, none of it matters for salvation. None of it should change your faith or how you praise Jesus.
Never said it did. But it does matter for other reasons. There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.
Not to..... and judge each other
Christians are commanded to judge each other by God's standards. In fact you just judged me for judging didn't you? So are you a hypocrite or do you maybe have an inconsistent view of what scripture commands?
Live in the Spirit and you will know what “you” need to know.
Hardly. You're not commanded to live by the spirit alone. Your commanded to study and meditate on God's word as well.
Eschatology matters. It affects how you fight, build, and interact with the world.
As I said before, no one polishes brass on a sinking ship. If you think you're about to be yeeted into heaven are you going to fight, build, and take Dominion and start projects that your great-grandchildren will have to finish? Doubtful.
My church is Post Mill. We run EndAbortionNow.com and wrote the amicus brief that overturned Roe v Wade. We have bills of full abolition criminalization pending all over the nation. We have shut down multiple abortion clinics and saved countless babies and equipped churches all over the world to fight abortion In a biblical manner. We know this fight is gods. We know all we have to do is be faithful and step out in faith and do the work and God will give us the victory. Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.
I frequently see churches with pessimistic eschatological views and positions being wildly ineffective to the world and the culture and their communities at large. I don't think this is an accident. If I was the enemy I would see this as a total victory.
Typical combative religious answer. You flaunt your knowledge and works as if you are superior. Pharisee much? Studying the word is a given, I never said live in the Spirit ignorantly. Your church isn’t the only defender of life. Please continue to qualify your earned authority on unfulfilled prophecy. Give it a rest.There are really strong arguments on more than one line of thought. None conclusive in my opinion. Yes we should stand in strong opposition to evil and bring more hearts to Jesus even more so. Let’s not bicker about what might come in the future. If your heart is right with God, come what may, you will be prepared to go about the Father’s work in whatever scenario you find yourself in.
Not against action but against action that is possibly motivated by a false belief and claiming it is God’s will. See my second response to u/Datasinc for clarification.
Combative? No. Conflicting beliefs? Yes. That's called a discussion. Religious? Yes. Christianity IS a religion.... based upon God's Word which is the standard. This is super simple stuff.
You flaunt your knowledge and works as if you are superior.
I was sharing knowledge.... IN A DISCUSSION which is EXACTLY what you are doing too. As for works.... I was demonstrating what the differing views of end times lead to. I could easily give you many other examples from other post-mill churches such as the wonderful work of Christ Church in Moscow Idaho. IDC who does the work and is faithful to God, I want children saved from death. I want churches fighting the culture and being hated for it. I want us to be salt and light. Full stop.
Pharisee much?
LOL you don't even understand what that means. If you are gonna use that in the future I suggest you familiarize yourself with it. I'll help you out.... It describes someone who is hypocritical or overly focused on religious rituals without true understanding or sincerity. Quit throwing around popular evangelical terms you don't understand.
No one was bickering. despite that, you tried to make some pretty stupid and baseless personal attacks against me. You just had your feathers ruffled because i swept the legs out from under some of your other arguments and took it personally. I was addressing your position, not you. You did not respond in kind so here we are. Pearls to swine.
I would recommend you walk away from this one. You don't seem to have the temperament for the exchange of ideas in a productive manor and at a certain point I may choose to start actually punching back which believe me, I haven't even remotely done. I thought we were having a brotherly convo.
I am familiar with Doug Wilson and Christ Church. I am especially thankful for his contributions to education. He is who introduced me to classical Christian education and Dorothy Sayers. I have sought out that type of education for my children and am very thankful. Just one example among other works from him and his church.
My pastor and church are quite active in politics and the national evangelical movement as well. He has been invited to multiple Whitehouse meetings under the Trump administration. He is well known but my post is not about him. Nor is it about his, or his church’s works. His works do illuminate the chasm between you and I. You see he teaches pre-trib/pre-mil. I say this because your comments come off as a pride badge for your post-mil church. You allude to pm churches doing work while others are just sitting around and dooming. That’s just not the case.
“There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.”
“ Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.”
These comments reveal the nature of your opinion that only post-mil believers are active soldiers for Christ or the only Christian’s praising Him correctly.
Yes our pre-Trib/pre-mil church is heavily active in the fight against abortion as well. I find it a bit ridiculous to have to compare the two churches and their works. Works cannot save anyone. It is why Jesus fulfilled the law so that no one can boast. He takes all the credit for salvation. Our faith in Him saves us. Period! So why does your eschatological interpretations, which is what you’re arguing for, matter so much to use labels of right and wrong? No one knows for certain. All camps are arguing about their interpretation of scripture. One says this is literal and that is symbology while the other says the opposite or even the same on some points. It is not hard to use grammar, context, vocabulary, and previous use to determine what scriptures mean. Yet, here we are. Some things are not so clear without first hand anccounts or knowledge and aside from the accounts of the apostles and the knowledge directly revealed to Paul it does not exist. So, we are left with interpretations. I think Paul is pretty clear about things. One could argue he has more knowledge than the disciples as mysteries were revealed to him alone. I digress.
Regardless of interpretation we should all be busy about our Father’s work. This is the perspective I was and still am coming from. Works has no place in an eschatological discussion. Perhaps an absolute like “no place” is too extreme. Let’s say very low relevance. 1. Works are irrelevant in that we should all be doing our own specialized work as appointed from the Father no matter what our eschatological interpretations are. It’s not like only one group works and the other is sitting on their hands waiting. Or that one group’s work is more important other’s. At least it shouldn’t be. 2. Works is merely the fruit of faith. If your works are driven by anything other than your love for Christ and your submission to His will you are doing most likely doing them in vain. In the case of doing work that supports “your” interpretation of prophecy as being the why you work it falls flat.
I think we agree on more than you think but I just see some of your comments and arguments as petty in the grand scheme of things.
Sorry for the attacks earlier. I took some of your comments out of context. Numbers 6:24-26
As a Catholic who attended 12 years of Catholic Schools from 1970 to 1981, and had religion class every day for those 12 years, we were never taught anything like the modern version of Revelation. My Dad scoffs at things like the "Left Behind" series as revisionism and heresy. I call it psychological warfare.
Whatever mod stickied this... God bless you because this is controversial as fuck but absolutely needs to be heard.
I love how so many people are so sure that "this can't be true…"
REVELATION directly implies that the world (Humanity) would be deceived and WOULD NOT KNOW.
What makes these people so sure they would be among the elect that would indeed know if Revelation had already played out, and Satan had been released from the pit?
I'm absolutely, positively impressed and pleased that this was stickied. Like wow.
I fundamentally disagree with this notion for the simple fact that the Bible says the Holy Spirit would be pulled from the world. All true believers still have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that helps guide us and allows us to pray directly to and get answers from, in various forms, from God.
Where I believe we are, is in the lead up. The condition of God's word being heard around the world hasn't been met yet, ( https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-14.htm) but with StarLink allowing high speed internet around the world, AI that could help translate for unreached language groups in record time ... We're on route.
Also, from what we know about the world before the flood, the world was a surprisingly advanced place. Consider what advanced things we found of clockwork mechanisms that we can barely comprehend WITH modern computers. Our brains have not only been degraded by pharmaceuticals and other poisons in our environments, solar radiation degrading DNA each successive generation, but entropy in general. We, without a doubt, are all dummer than our distant ancestors. However, with advances in computers, we're on a trajectory to have advances that may very well rival that of the hidden, distant, and deliberately burried past.
About the last part, I'm not being conspiratorial, but I've seen enough stories come out about archeological discoveries that have been sealed away because they indicate the existence of far more advanced societies far earlier in history than our modern 'science' says would have been possible. Some things bore a striking resembles transformers and pole insulators.
I could make an entire post by itself just on what all likely went on during the flood and how thoroughly it destroyed evidence of the past ... But I'll just summarize that it involved likely nearly liquification of the Earth's crust due to intense seismic waves emanating from multiple asteroid hits, accompanying geologic upheaval that unleashed the literal oceans worth of water contained within ringwoodite (look it up) within the planetary crust that are the cited fountains of the deep within the Bible, extreme volcanic activity, torrential rain likely caused by what would be going on in the atmosphere at this time, and probably more. Needless to say, it's amazing that we've gotten the small clues that we have about the time before the flood.
To the point, there's been some hints that, even with our advancement, we may be behind our pre-flood distant ancestors in a lot of ways ... but those gaps are closing in my view.
I listened through enough. I'm also already versed in the theological aspects of that view in general.
A few points to consider, the two Witnesses have not come. According to Biblical clues, they will mostly likely be Moses and Elijah, who also met with Jesus on Mount of Olives. Moses' body was fought over and kept from Satan and Elijah was taken directly to heaven. They would be calling out the ENTIRE world and we would know if two witnesses were doing that or had done it.
The Bible says that every eye will see the returning of Jesus and Satan would only then be sealed. Frankly, we are not during the millennial reign of Christ and he would not be ruling in secret. We would also certainly know if the reign of Christ had already happened because Satan would only have a short time afterward before the ENTIRE universe is wiped clean with fire. Interesting scientific note on that, enough heat can even break apart atoms and the smallest of molecular bonds, so very appropriate for the purpose.
There's just so many other things that HAVE to happen chronologically BEFORE Satan is bound. We're just not there yet.
Bear in mind, Satan is a great deceiver. What better trick than to make people thing that a) he doesn't exist, or failing that b) that he is bound and not actively working his plan.
It is hard to fill a cup that is already full.
Just like the normies, they refuse to consider new information that contradicts their current world view.
This is a great OP and I'm glad to see some people watched it and considered the possibility.
You say "None of the prerequisites to that events have occurred" but do you agree if the Millennial Kingdom has already happened (I know you don't believe this), that the prerequisites have already happened?
All I know is, history is not accurate as is currently taught. The same corporations that control the media control our textbooks.
Have you read any of the Encyclopedia Brittanica 9th edition (last edition before the Rockefellers bought it)? Things changed after that.
As a side note, I'm sure it was just a coincidence the Rockefellers skipped over the 10th edition and issued the 11th addition, and not some occult 9-11 symbolism (10 represents God, so in effect this means passing over God).
Mark 3:24-27
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
Colossians 2:15
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Revelation 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 20:1-31 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Our body is the temple. What does cleansing the temple look like?
Why did they remove Maccabees from most Protestant Bibles? If our body is the temple, and the Israelites went to war with Greece for putting pigs blood on the altar…?
Parasite Pill claims the Israelites are more prone to parasites, which if true would mean anti-parasitic behaviors are even more important for them to remain in a godly mindset.
Where their worm dieth not and their fire is not quenched…
There’s that one island in India, North Sentinel Island, that supposedly nobody can go anywhere near because omg they have spears, but that’s about all I’m aware of.
Satan has been the God of this world since Adam turned it over to him. He remains so until a period after Christ return. Christ called him the God of this world. Satan offered Jesus every kingdom of the world if he would bow, Jesus never said they weren't his to give. When death is destroyed the fullness of Christ redemption will be achieved. As long as Christians are still in this crooked and perverse nation (world) Christ hasn't returned. What is God waiting for? Ephesians says the fullness of times, until then there is a harvest to be brought in. We are the laborers together with God to bring that harvest in.
Once I discovered who was behind the Schofield bible it all made sense.
Jacob Shiff and Bernard Baruch two very powerful Zionist oligarchs were not only some of the ones who funded the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917 they also funded C I Scofield's Reference 'bible'. This was the twenty year timeline with some very significant events.
God chooses all his creations, but some are more chosen than others.
Satan was let out for a little bit. But the vatican called it back in the ... 50s i think? He was let out for 75 years. And at the end of 75 years, he gets put back in hell.
It's posts like these that I swear sleeper-shills are assigned to fuck with.
I wrote a post addressing this directly. There are users on here whose sole purpose it seems, is to attack certain "sensitive" ideas and information on GAW.
They only wake up and come alive to post against certain select ideas/theories.
I believe this is the time when Satan is in bondage, and man’s own evil is portrayed without outside influence. This is where we see just how evil mankind can be. Don’t be one of the evil. Prayer is the answer. And it helps to vote!
Humbly disagree. Everything being pushed DIRECTLY goes back to satanic influences.
Satan has 4 generals, one promotes transgenderism, one promotes lesbianism, one promotes gayness in men, and the other one is like sinful sexuality. Sound familiar?
Also, look at things like abortion. Where it stands now, if you need one, you can get one. The feminists should be overjoyed. But they keep pushing for constitutional amendments, for it to be included in health insurance, for it to be more accessible (like its not). Why? Because its not about any of those things, its about being a sacrament to satan.
If satan were in bondage, it would be a lot easier to stop sinning. I don't know about you, but im doing a shitty job of that.
I believe Satan and his generals were defeated by the cross and locked up when Jerusalem were destroyed, thus fulfilling the end times revelation.
The Bible says that the hearts of man are evil and nothing good is found in them. So, apart from accepting the Holy Spirit in your heart, and accepting Christ died for our sins, there is no hope.
And it says Satan will be bound for a thousand years. Not sure if that was a literal thousand, if it passed at some time, or what. But, the end times, as all the Revelation followers point to, still has a lot of locked information.
But, the abomination of desolation has already happened. When the Christ said that generation will not pass before those things take place, they took place. Scripture is always 100% accurate.
So, if the “rapture” already happened, what’s next? Yes, the rapture was when the Christians fled to the mountains and hid during the fall of Jerusalem.
Not all Christians believe that is what the scriptures say, but it makes far more sense than Lahay’s books to me…
Satan is obviously out & about much more these days than even 20 years ago. I've even seen young adults running around with tee shirts of inverted pentangles & Satan plainly written on the shirt. No one would have dared to have worn that even 20 years ago There are (leftist) circles where the word: "God" is treated like a 4 letter word but the word Satan is fine to speak. He is clearly out & about these days.
I believe that Scofield Futurism is one of the main reasons Christianity has been so ineffective for the last 50-60 years. The unBiblical teaching of the Rapture, a Tribulation, an Anti-Christ, and that Matthew 24 and Revelation are talking about events in the future has, in essence, caused most Christians (as this Scofield doctrine has been shoved down our throats in every church and seminary for the last 100 years) to passively stand by while evil has been allowed to flourish massively...especially in the political realm.
This Dispensational, Scofield Futurism wasn't even a thing until about 100 years ago and the early church Fathers all believed...contrary to Scofield...that Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation had already occurred. This fundamental belief that Jesus had "actually" won the decisive victory 2,000 years ago when He "actually" rose from the dead was the cornerstone of faith back then. Onward Christian Soldier was the battle cry because Jesus had won the war and Christians were marching on to victory! The rest of history was just cleanup...working to spread God's Word, the message of the Gospel, and win souls for Jesus.
Most Christians today...attending 501c3 Zionist Scofield Churches...are so heavenly minded, they have become no earthly good. They are so enamored with a Rapture (being sucked up outta here before the bad stuff happens), and are so sure that an evil man called the Anti-Christ is going to actually win for a time and set up a global government that there's really no reason to fight. I mean, if the Bible teaches that a One World Government is inevitable and that the Anti-Christ is going to control the world for a 7 year period, why would you fight against something the Bible teaches is absolutely going to happen. I mean...who in their right mind thinks they are going to change Bible Prophecy...right? Hence...you have a Church that doesn't have the will to get involved politically and stop a march toward global governance.
The early Church Fathers believed that the beautiful, simple, message of the Gospel would eventually take over the world in the love and truth of Jesus Christ. This view of the end times was called "Dominion Theology," and was the pervasive belief that led to the spread of Christianity all through Europe and is the very reason why America exists today. Had the Church leaders followed the teachings of Scofield Futurists back in the day, there would have never been a Declaration of Independence or Revolutionary War! Scofield effectively "castrated" the Church...but the good news is that is changing! God is still in control and people are waking up to the Scofield hoax!
So what about Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation. Well, books have been written detailing the true meaning of each verse of these portions of Scripture and why they are not saying what Scofield says they say. A good resource for books on this subject can be found at Americanvision.org. However, if one simply pays attention to the time stamps in the context of both Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation, you can clearly see, in both instances, that the Authors are speaking of events that were going to occur very soon and in the time that Jesus disciples were living. Just read Matthew 24:34...Jesus plainly tells His disciples the following statement with regard to timing..."Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Jesus told His disciples that everything He said previously in the entire chapter of Matthew 24 would happen before their generation would pass. And it did happen when Rome sacked Jerusalem in 70AD. Christians who disbelieve how horrific this period was and that indeed everything Jesus said would happen...did indeed happen...needs to read the eyewitness account found in the writings of Josephus. Josephus was a first century Jewish historian who had a front row seat of this event. The great tribulation that is supposed to happen in the future, according to Scofield...well...that was it according to Jesus (read Matt 24:21-22). So do you believe Christ or do you belief a snake oil salesman like Scofield?
And John tells us plainly in the OPENING verses of the Book of Revelation..."The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Now do you think John would have use words like "shortly" or "the time is at hand" to describe events that are going to occur thousands of years hence? Again, the entire Book of Revelation (which was written about 66AD) was John's more detailed description of what was going to occur in Heaven and on earth when God's judgement fell on Jerusalem in 70AD. Christians today...again...in these anemic, 501c3 Scofield Futurist churches...are just not taught exactly what went on when God unleashed His wrath on Jerusalem through the armies of Rome. All I can say is that this event was the greatest, most horrific, and earth shattering event to ever occur in the history of man...and yes...that includes the Great Flood of Noah! Everyone who calls themselves a follower of Jesus should study exactly what took place when Rome laid waste to Jerusalem. I say this because you will come out the other end with a much greater appreciation for the New Covenant of Grace in which we now live and you will have a much greater understanding of where we are in the "real" timeline of God's plans for this earth and mankind.
Bingo. I've been telling people this for years.
The rapture is the greatest lie the devil has ever injected into the church. It has neutered the modern church.
No one polishes brass on a sinking ship.
Edit: here's a YT playlist of some of the best sermons, discussions, debates, and presentations on the end times.... with the best minds from all major positions represented. These are all very well respected theologians, pastors and scholars and not some weird fringe nutters trying to sell you food buckets and prayer cloths.
There's a lot here but pick a video that interests you and go from there. (They are in no particular order) https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm4vxYfDpoYaWjqK76eZukIyKtyX5Xa-J&si=dMrtPF2UordHRGXZ
Pre-mil, amil, post-mil, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, none of it matters for salvation. None of it should change your faith or how you praise Jesus. We are saved by faith and faith inspires works. Only faith saves you and only faith continues God’s will on earth.
Eschatology is given to us to inspire hope. He told us the end from the beginning to comfort us. Not to separate and judge each other. Think about it, nobody knows anything for certain regarding unfulfilled prophecy. While God has revealed enough for us to know Him by His characteristics, nobody knows His mind or how He will carry out His plans. How can we be prepared no matter what happens? Living in the Spirit of Christ.
Live in the Spirit and you will know what “you” need to know. Live in the Spirit and you will be comforted by what “you” need to be comforted with. Above all, live in the Spirit and the narrow path will be wide enough for “you”.
Never said it did. But it does matter for other reasons. There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.
Christians are commanded to judge each other by God's standards. In fact you just judged me for judging didn't you? So are you a hypocrite or do you maybe have an inconsistent view of what scripture commands?
Hardly. You're not commanded to live by the spirit alone. Your commanded to study and meditate on God's word as well.
Eschatology matters. It affects how you fight, build, and interact with the world.
As I said before, no one polishes brass on a sinking ship. If you think you're about to be yeeted into heaven are you going to fight, build, and take Dominion and start projects that your great-grandchildren will have to finish? Doubtful.
My church is Post Mill. We run EndAbortionNow.com and wrote the amicus brief that overturned Roe v Wade. We have bills of full abolition criminalization pending all over the nation. We have shut down multiple abortion clinics and saved countless babies and equipped churches all over the world to fight abortion In a biblical manner. We know this fight is gods. We know all we have to do is be faithful and step out in faith and do the work and God will give us the victory. Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.
I frequently see churches with pessimistic eschatological views and positions being wildly ineffective to the world and the culture and their communities at large. I don't think this is an accident. If I was the enemy I would see this as a total victory.
Typical combative religious answer. You flaunt your knowledge and works as if you are superior. Pharisee much? Studying the word is a given, I never said live in the Spirit ignorantly. Your church isn’t the only defender of life. Please continue to qualify your earned authority on unfulfilled prophecy. Give it a rest.There are really strong arguments on more than one line of thought. None conclusive in my opinion. Yes we should stand in strong opposition to evil and bring more hearts to Jesus even more so. Let’s not bicker about what might come in the future. If your heart is right with God, come what may, you will be prepared to go about the Father’s work in whatever scenario you find yourself in.
Not against action but against action that is possibly motivated by a false belief and claiming it is God’s will. See my second response to u/Datasinc for clarification.
Yes clarifications were much better. I decided to butt out, but not quick enough!
Combative? No. Conflicting beliefs? Yes. That's called a discussion. Religious? Yes. Christianity IS a religion.... based upon God's Word which is the standard. This is super simple stuff.
I was sharing knowledge.... IN A DISCUSSION which is EXACTLY what you are doing too. As for works.... I was demonstrating what the differing views of end times lead to. I could easily give you many other examples from other post-mill churches such as the wonderful work of Christ Church in Moscow Idaho. IDC who does the work and is faithful to God, I want children saved from death. I want churches fighting the culture and being hated for it. I want us to be salt and light. Full stop.
LOL you don't even understand what that means. If you are gonna use that in the future I suggest you familiarize yourself with it. I'll help you out.... It describes someone who is hypocritical or overly focused on religious rituals without true understanding or sincerity. Quit throwing around popular evangelical terms you don't understand.
No one was bickering. despite that, you tried to make some pretty stupid and baseless personal attacks against me. You just had your feathers ruffled because i swept the legs out from under some of your other arguments and took it personally. I was addressing your position, not you. You did not respond in kind so here we are. Pearls to swine.
I would recommend you walk away from this one. You don't seem to have the temperament for the exchange of ideas in a productive manor and at a certain point I may choose to start actually punching back which believe me, I haven't even remotely done. I thought we were having a brotherly convo.
Have a blessed day.
I am familiar with Doug Wilson and Christ Church. I am especially thankful for his contributions to education. He is who introduced me to classical Christian education and Dorothy Sayers. I have sought out that type of education for my children and am very thankful. Just one example among other works from him and his church.
My pastor and church are quite active in politics and the national evangelical movement as well. He has been invited to multiple Whitehouse meetings under the Trump administration. He is well known but my post is not about him. Nor is it about his, or his church’s works. His works do illuminate the chasm between you and I. You see he teaches pre-trib/pre-mil. I say this because your comments come off as a pride badge for your post-mil church. You allude to pm churches doing work while others are just sitting around and dooming. That’s just not the case.
“There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.”
“ Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.”
These comments reveal the nature of your opinion that only post-mil believers are active soldiers for Christ or the only Christian’s praising Him correctly.
Yes our pre-Trib/pre-mil church is heavily active in the fight against abortion as well. I find it a bit ridiculous to have to compare the two churches and their works. Works cannot save anyone. It is why Jesus fulfilled the law so that no one can boast. He takes all the credit for salvation. Our faith in Him saves us. Period! So why does your eschatological interpretations, which is what you’re arguing for, matter so much to use labels of right and wrong? No one knows for certain. All camps are arguing about their interpretation of scripture. One says this is literal and that is symbology while the other says the opposite or even the same on some points. It is not hard to use grammar, context, vocabulary, and previous use to determine what scriptures mean. Yet, here we are. Some things are not so clear without first hand anccounts or knowledge and aside from the accounts of the apostles and the knowledge directly revealed to Paul it does not exist. So, we are left with interpretations. I think Paul is pretty clear about things. One could argue he has more knowledge than the disciples as mysteries were revealed to him alone. I digress.
Regardless of interpretation we should all be busy about our Father’s work. This is the perspective I was and still am coming from. Works has no place in an eschatological discussion. Perhaps an absolute like “no place” is too extreme. Let’s say very low relevance. 1. Works are irrelevant in that we should all be doing our own specialized work as appointed from the Father no matter what our eschatological interpretations are. It’s not like only one group works and the other is sitting on their hands waiting. Or that one group’s work is more important other’s. At least it shouldn’t be. 2. Works is merely the fruit of faith. If your works are driven by anything other than your love for Christ and your submission to His will you are doing most likely doing them in vain. In the case of doing work that supports “your” interpretation of prophecy as being the why you work it falls flat.
I think we agree on more than you think but I just see some of your comments and arguments as petty in the grand scheme of things.
Sorry for the attacks earlier. I took some of your comments out of context. Numbers 6:24-26
Love that last line...can I use it?
Hey check this playlist I made out of you love eschatology. I put some killer stuff in here.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm4vxYfDpoYaWjqK76eZukIyKtyX5Xa-J&si=dMrtPF2UordHRGXZ
Absolutely 💯
As a Catholic who attended 12 years of Catholic Schools from 1970 to 1981, and had religion class every day for those 12 years, we were never taught anything like the modern version of Revelation. My Dad scoffs at things like the "Left Behind" series as revisionism and heresy. I call it psychological warfare.
You were taught lies about Mary.
Lies about Mary? Enlighten us fren.
The way I see it, basically every denomination is going to have some degree of lies incorporated into it.
Part of our job is to take what’s good and leave the rubbish, and be very careful about it.
Excellent points u/MalonLabe777
Whatever mod stickied this... God bless you because this is controversial as fuck but absolutely needs to be heard.
I love how so many people are so sure that "this can't be true…"
REVELATION directly implies that the world (Humanity) would be deceived and WOULD NOT KNOW.
What makes these people so sure they would be among the elect that would indeed know if Revelation had already played out, and Satan had been released from the pit?
I'm absolutely, positively impressed and pleased that this was stickied. Like wow.
I fundamentally disagree with this notion for the simple fact that the Bible says the Holy Spirit would be pulled from the world. All true believers still have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that helps guide us and allows us to pray directly to and get answers from, in various forms, from God.
Where I believe we are, is in the lead up. The condition of God's word being heard around the world hasn't been met yet, ( https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-14.htm) but with StarLink allowing high speed internet around the world, AI that could help translate for unreached language groups in record time ... We're on route.
Also, from what we know about the world before the flood, the world was a surprisingly advanced place. Consider what advanced things we found of clockwork mechanisms that we can barely comprehend WITH modern computers. Our brains have not only been degraded by pharmaceuticals and other poisons in our environments, solar radiation degrading DNA each successive generation, but entropy in general. We, without a doubt, are all dummer than our distant ancestors. However, with advances in computers, we're on a trajectory to have advances that may very well rival that of the hidden, distant, and deliberately burried past.
About the last part, I'm not being conspiratorial, but I've seen enough stories come out about archeological discoveries that have been sealed away because they indicate the existence of far more advanced societies far earlier in history than our modern 'science' says would have been possible. Some things bore a striking resembles transformers and pole insulators.
I could make an entire post by itself just on what all likely went on during the flood and how thoroughly it destroyed evidence of the past ... But I'll just summarize that it involved likely nearly liquification of the Earth's crust due to intense seismic waves emanating from multiple asteroid hits, accompanying geologic upheaval that unleashed the literal oceans worth of water contained within ringwoodite (look it up) within the planetary crust that are the cited fountains of the deep within the Bible, extreme volcanic activity, torrential rain likely caused by what would be going on in the atmosphere at this time, and probably more. Needless to say, it's amazing that we've gotten the small clues that we have about the time before the flood.
To the point, there's been some hints that, even with our advancement, we may be behind our pre-flood distant ancestors in a lot of ways ... but those gaps are closing in my view.
Did you take the time to watch the video, because it doesn't seem like you did?
I listened through enough. I'm also already versed in the theological aspects of that view in general.
A few points to consider, the two Witnesses have not come. According to Biblical clues, they will mostly likely be Moses and Elijah, who also met with Jesus on Mount of Olives. Moses' body was fought over and kept from Satan and Elijah was taken directly to heaven. They would be calling out the ENTIRE world and we would know if two witnesses were doing that or had done it.
The Bible says that every eye will see the returning of Jesus and Satan would only then be sealed. Frankly, we are not during the millennial reign of Christ and he would not be ruling in secret. We would also certainly know if the reign of Christ had already happened because Satan would only have a short time afterward before the ENTIRE universe is wiped clean with fire. Interesting scientific note on that, enough heat can even break apart atoms and the smallest of molecular bonds, so very appropriate for the purpose.
Now, as to when Jesus said, "This generation shall not pass away ..." I found this handy reference and theological explanation. ( https://licc.org.uk/resources/this-generation-will-not-pass-away-the-hard-sayings-of-jesus/ ). In short, Jesus was referring to the destruction of the temple and other matters, not his full return as the conquering king.
There's just so many other things that HAVE to happen chronologically BEFORE Satan is bound. We're just not there yet.
Bear in mind, Satan is a great deceiver. What better trick than to make people thing that a) he doesn't exist, or failing that b) that he is bound and not actively working his plan.
Doubtful u/LoneWulf
It is hard to fill a cup that is already full.
Just like the normies, they refuse to consider new information that contradicts their current world view.
This is a great OP and I'm glad to see some people watched it and considered the possibility.
Satan was bound for 1000 years and it should be evident he is no longer bound.
All you have to do is turn on the radio or television or shop at a Target to see abundant evidence of Satan's activity.
My point is that Satan has never been bound. None of the prerequisites to that events have occurred.
You say "None of the prerequisites to that events have occurred" but do you agree if the Millennial Kingdom has already happened (I know you don't believe this), that the prerequisites have already happened?
All I know is, history is not accurate as is currently taught. The same corporations that control the media control our textbooks.
Have you read any of the Encyclopedia Brittanica 9th edition (last edition before the Rockefellers bought it)? Things changed after that.
As a side note, I'm sure it was just a coincidence the Rockefellers skipped over the 10th edition and issued the 11th addition, and not some occult 9-11 symbolism (10 represents God, so in effect this means passing over God).
Mark 3:24-27
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
Colossians 2:15
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Revelation 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 20:1-3 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Maybe not but he's certainly out & about a lot more than he was decades ago.
Pork, the other white meat
Homosexual parasite infections
Don’t fast
Ivermectin is given only to unbelievers
Our body is the temple. What does cleansing the temple look like?
Why did they remove Maccabees from most Protestant Bibles? If our body is the temple, and the Israelites went to war with Greece for putting pigs blood on the altar…?
Parasite Pill claims the Israelites are more prone to parasites, which if true would mean anti-parasitic behaviors are even more important for them to remain in a godly mindset.
Where their worm dieth not and their fire is not quenched…
Just some dots.
Where exactly in the world hasn't heard the gospel?
We have sent missionaries EVERYWHERE. That's long since been fulfilled.
Dispensationalism is only about 200 years old.
Why would you hold to a belief that wasn't shared by any of the apostles, Early church fathers or even our founding fathers?
Jesus said "this generation shall not pass till all these things take place."
Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome in 70ad. Rome had 7 hills with 10 governors (7 heads, 10 horns) it all lines up PERFECTLY.
There’s that one island in India, North Sentinel Island, that supposedly nobody can go anywhere near because omg they have spears, but that’s about all I’m aware of.
I don’t buy the story.
Satan has been the God of this world since Adam turned it over to him. He remains so until a period after Christ return. Christ called him the God of this world. Satan offered Jesus every kingdom of the world if he would bow, Jesus never said they weren't his to give. When death is destroyed the fullness of Christ redemption will be achieved. As long as Christians are still in this crooked and perverse nation (world) Christ hasn't returned. What is God waiting for? Ephesians says the fullness of times, until then there is a harvest to be brought in. We are the laborers together with God to bring that harvest in.
Once I discovered who was behind the Schofield bible it all made sense.
God chooses all his creations, but some are more chosen than others.
Ive wondered this myself
Satan was let out for a little bit. But the vatican called it back in the ... 50s i think? He was let out for 75 years. And at the end of 75 years, he gets put back in hell.
The exorcists talk about it from time to time.
Great OP u/inspoken!
It's posts like these that I swear sleeper-shills are assigned to fuck with.
I wrote a post addressing this directly. There are users on here whose sole purpose it seems, is to attack certain "sensitive" ideas and information on GAW.
They only wake up and come alive to post against certain select ideas/theories.
Sleeper-shills ⬇️
https://greatawakening.win/p/19957ciQap/if-i-were-a-shill/
Please keep posting more things about Satan's little season, etc. I'm quite familiar with the topic however I have not seen this video.
WWG1WGA!
1thes 13-18 hasn’t happened yet
100%
Little season
This is the first one I watched. This is a discussion that is a good intro.
https://youtu.be/HCfFH2zvlxA?si=_f99cvJCRr5cZydR
Then these are good for a brief overview broken up into 20ish min vids. https://youtu.be/WrAQHuo7rog?si=7uXa-6pzjsWz0aRW
https://youtu.be/KWzMomirxpA?si=9_GOzA-GTHtLC8IZ
https://youtu.be/mRXepydlnPI?si=rdkDCs3xzUaAxcWN
The youtube channel understanding conspiracy is a large resource.
🤦♀️
I believe this is the time when Satan is in bondage, and man’s own evil is portrayed without outside influence. This is where we see just how evil mankind can be. Don’t be one of the evil. Prayer is the answer. And it helps to vote!
Humbly disagree. Everything being pushed DIRECTLY goes back to satanic influences.
Satan has 4 generals, one promotes transgenderism, one promotes lesbianism, one promotes gayness in men, and the other one is like sinful sexuality. Sound familiar?
Also, look at things like abortion. Where it stands now, if you need one, you can get one. The feminists should be overjoyed. But they keep pushing for constitutional amendments, for it to be included in health insurance, for it to be more accessible (like its not). Why? Because its not about any of those things, its about being a sacrament to satan.
If satan were in bondage, it would be a lot easier to stop sinning. I don't know about you, but im doing a shitty job of that.
I believe Satan and his generals were defeated by the cross and locked up when Jerusalem were destroyed, thus fulfilling the end times revelation.
The Bible says that the hearts of man are evil and nothing good is found in them. So, apart from accepting the Holy Spirit in your heart, and accepting Christ died for our sins, there is no hope.
And it says Satan will be bound for a thousand years. Not sure if that was a literal thousand, if it passed at some time, or what. But, the end times, as all the Revelation followers point to, still has a lot of locked information.
But, the abomination of desolation has already happened. When the Christ said that generation will not pass before those things take place, they took place. Scripture is always 100% accurate.
So, if the “rapture” already happened, what’s next? Yes, the rapture was when the Christians fled to the mountains and hid during the fall of Jerusalem.
Not all Christians believe that is what the scriptures say, but it makes far more sense than Lahay’s books to me…
I’ve been making progress on some of my known fronts, but the cup is not clean yet.
Satan is obviously out & about much more these days than even 20 years ago. I've even seen young adults running around with tee shirts of inverted pentangles & Satan plainly written on the shirt. No one would have dared to have worn that even 20 years ago There are (leftist) circles where the word: "God" is treated like a 4 letter word but the word Satan is fine to speak. He is clearly out & about these days.