EKO: BEYOND SACRIFICE - WHY JESUS REALLY DIED
(eko.substack.com)
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I understand that quotation to be a mistranslation. The intended word is closer to "among," which would have been true. It would have been Him. It is at odds with everything else Jesus said about salvation and the kingdom of heaven.
My struggle has always been rectifying a Loving God with "we're born sinners".
Doesn't that sound more like what the other side wants us to believe?
Be Orthodox then.
In Orthodox Christian theology, humans are not born addicted to sin but inherit a fallen nature due to the ancestral sin of Adam and Eve. This nature inclines people toward sin, but it’s not an addiction from birth. Sinful behavior can become addictive through repeated choices, as habits form and passions take root. The Orthodox view emphasizes free will—people can choose to resist sin with God’s grace, through prayer, repentance, and the sacraments. Addiction to sin is seen as a distortion of the will, not an inborn state.
I believe I have a direct connection with God; Religion, of any flavor, is not required. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm with you there! I have never trusted "organized religions", history repeats this theme constantly. Organized religion to me, is nothing more than another way to control the thoughts of the masses simply by telling the followers what to believe, when to believe and how to believe, etc. I could go on but I think my point is made and i dont need to go any further. Free thinking is not desirable.
Note: I believe in God, not man's "interpretation" of how to believe.
Definitely a distraction from God...When two or more are gathered is all that's necessary. To me, coming from a Presbytirian and Masonic childhood background, "church" can be all you said and more. In the US Mega Church's music is more like a rock concert with lighting, special effects, etc. When I ask people what they like about their church they usually say all the "activities" they have. It's the social environment they like.
I agree! My Mom had so many "interpretations" of the Bible. And the King James version everyone promotes? Been down that rabbit hole too.
I had a Professor say, " If Jesus and all the other religious leaders were sitting around a table they wouldn't be arguing." That stuck with me as how many "denominations" or non-denominations are there? Why? Different doctrines made by MAN.
I have one burning question that nobody seems to have an answer for. Even my college religious profs (Jesuit college) were stymied on. It is a very fundamental one too. I've asked people of the cloth of many different faiths as well.
IF God is all loving, powerful and loving (no doubt here on that) then why is the purest and ugliest of evil aloud to exist? To grow like a cancer on humankind? Why doesn't the most powerful entity man knows (God) just completely eradicate evil as we know it and no longer allow humanity to suffer like we are today? No body can give me a sound logical reason other than to pray on it?
Evil is a corollary to man having a free will because the only 2 real choices are: We can choose God, or we can reject God (Jereminah 2:13). If we are unable to reject God, neither are we able to choose God. His desire is that we, of our own free will, choose Him.
So, that begs the question, Why does God want us to choose Him? Revelation 4:11 tells us that all things were created for God's will. God has a will, not just "for our lives," but He wants something for Himself. He doesn't hide the reason. Ephesians 5:23-32 shows us that He wants man to be His counterpart, like Eve to Adam, and wife to husband. That is the great mystery revealed there. Then jumping over to Revelation 19:7 and we see the marriage of the Lamb and His wife has come. In chp. 21, John saw the church as a holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband, having the glory of God (v. 11). Chp. 21 & 22 then give details of the city. But these details, according to Revelation 1:1 & 3 are signs, which are prophecies. Signs are symbols with spiritual significance. The Bible interprets itself. To understand the signs, you have to follow them through the whole Bible beginning in Genesis.
So, why does evil exist? It's because God wants humanity, a corporate person, as a counterpart, a bride, who will love Him and choose Him of her own free will. It is an irrevocable choice, because He comes into our spirit and becomes one spirit with us (1 Cor. 6:17) for eternity.
Thank you for your effort! I see it, I understand it yet I am disturbed because of the absolute power of God to do nothing about evil while allowing fellow humans suffer through no fault of their own? That's what I honestly have a difficult time comprehending. I believe but I truly wonder at times as the "why" of it all? Again, thanks for your response!!
In Biblical times, the woman had the final say on whether she agreed to marry a man or not. The man would present her with a cup of wine. If she agreed to the marriage, she would take a sip from the cup. If she refused the marriage, she would reject the cup.
If she agreed, the marriage document would be signed in front of the town elders and both parties would return to their homes to prepare for the wedding feast.
So to take this a step farther, God makes us an offer and we, as the bride, have the choice of whether to accept or reject this offer.
I have so many questions too! Yours is a good one. I don't claim to have "The" answer, but there are so many contradictions with what we think God has control over.
Why would God make this beautiful place, Adam and Eve, only to give the world to Satan? Oh! But, He gave us free will; so we can either suffer or follow him.
Everything has an opposite; a ying and a yang. I believe it's our choices that make the difference. 🤷🏻♀️
I concur on your assessment. It's the ONLY logical answer yet that seems so "off" on it being so.... we can only go through our time on this planet, do the best we can and try to leave it a better place when we leave.. As Josh Allen stated:
"Be good. Do good. God bless (and my favorite) Go Bills!"
Even the Wicken philosophy of Do as you wish, harm no others has merit. So... it all boils down to we, as individuals have a waking moment of choice to do, or not do. But then we can dive deep into the philosophical rabbit hole on life, so I won't. I guess we do the best we can with what we have and make life better while we can.
So were the 12 apostles “organized religion”? Or did that come later? When did it apostate? Or if you aren’t Christian then it’s a moot point I guess. But if you do believe Jesus is the Son of God where do you think that information came from? I get where you’re coming from and especially being orthodox I hear you. But it’s a bit more nuanced.
And here’s a bit of wisdom from CS Lewis… Jesus was either who he said he was or he was a lunatic.. there is no middle ground where Jesus is some kind of mystical wise person.
IMHO, The organized obviously came later... as evidence with power latched on to by the church leaders... etc. History has scholars throughout and were able to record many teachings, etc in scrolls which were "cherry-picked" through the ages to suite papacies philosophies or view points. Today, many of these ancient wisdoms are lost. Imagine the potential man would have today had all been preserved?
Totally agree and we know "they" suppressed our true history for centuries.
Good response. Just because men have subverted religious organizations does not necessarily mean the fundamental teachings of those religions are untrue.
Truth is unto itself. Ergo, I do not give up my faith because men have used Christianity as a control measure. Christ came first.
The original church structure was established by the Holy Spirit. It wasn't an organization, it was an organism. There was one church that was located in various localities. The church began to degrade during the times of the apostles. In 2 Tim. 1:15, Paul says that "all who are in Asia turned away from me." Paul wrote almost half of the New Testament. It was given to him to complete the word of God (Col. 1:25), and reveal the mystery that had been hidden from the ages and the generations (Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:3). John wrote in Revelation that the church in Ephesus left their first love (2:4).The ultimate degradation was the Roman Catholic Church with its hierarchical system. The church in Rome should never have been catholic (universal). Then the Reformation broke away but began to divide into thousands of divisions, which is contrary to God's word also.
Glad you have it all figured out because your previous comment seemed to have doubt. ✌️
Peace Fren. Do you? Will we ever have no doubt about anything?
Even Christ had a moment or two of not understanding according to the scriptures. But he remained faithful.
Little babies hit one another, little babies take from one another, little babies are defiant. I think differently about myself as a Christian. I'm not a one-part being.
I believe I am a three-part being. A mind, a body, and a spirit. My spirit is at war with the flesh, and the flesh at war with the spirit, and the mind is the battlefield where it takes place.
What we have to ask ourselves, ensuring that we are in Christ (belief and confession) is: Which of these is stronger, my spirit which has been redeemed by Christ, or my flesh, which is fallen?
God is just. I earnestly believe that if a baby passes here on earth, then they will be with the Lord in heaven. We can trust in His goodness for things we don't understand.
Regarding the Blood and the Body of Christ in the sacrament... We do this in remembrance of him. We remember what He did for us. His blood was spilt, and his body was broken.
Belief for me is more than just a statement. When we believe in something, we try. "If you believe a truck is coming, you move out of the way" - Ray Comfort
For me, that means following what Jesus says, even when it's hard. Jesus says to do this "in remembrance of me."
Jesus says to abide in Him and He will abide in us. So that means trusting in Him, and doing what He said to do. Lending when I don't want to. Giving when it hurts. Forgiving others that I might also be forgiven, among other things.
I'm not perfect, and I don't understand much. Satan will twist scripture, like he did when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness. You have to stand on the word of God, and take it to the Lord in prayer.
My best advice is to lean not on our own understanding, but trust God. He says we have sinful flesh nature, He made us, he knows us, He watched as we made the decision to side with the serpent and fall, and He knew every day of my life from the moment I was born. God's at the first day, and God's at the very end, simultaneously. Nothing that exists, exists for it's own glory, but for the Glory of God.
I hope these words are helpful.
Sin is in our flesh. It's like a defect in our programming. It is the reason we get sick and die. This defect is there even before we are born, before we have done anything good or bad. This defect is "sin" that is located in the flesh. It came in through Adam and passed to all his descendants. Romans 7 shows sin acting like a person. In verse 8, it seizes opportunities to work out sins (our actions of trespass). Verses 15-17 shows that, sin in our flesh makes us commit sins; it even makes us do things we don't want to do. This sin in us has the nature of Satan. Satan's "genetic code" was uploaded into the Adam's germ cell line, was passed down, and operates in us automatically. It works out Satan's expression in us whether we like it or not. That makes us slaves of sin.
Christ came to be our trespass offering, for the things we have done, and our sin offering, for what we are. Once sin is out of the way, God can put His Spirit in us to take care of the damage sin has done in us. This is the new covenant revealed in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:27. This new covenant is what Jesus enacted on the night of His betrayal (Luke 22:20).
Adam did an act of disobedience and took Satan into himself. Taking the Lord's table (communion) is an act of obedience, receiving symbolically through faith, Christ and what He has done, into us.
There are interpretations of those things that make more sense, and seem to be more scripturally aligned.
Yes.
This needs prayer. A lot of prayer.
Indeed this does... I will be taking it to the Lord tonight and as long as I need to understand it.
He looks correct to me.
Interesting perspective. I will be sharing with some friends at church this morning to get their thoughts on it. Thank you for posting! ✝️
Enjoyed this, thank you. This is basically what my personal walk has revealed to me.
Simply broken down:
The perception of "religion" and "faith" have always been tied together, but this is not the case. Religion is an institution, faith is a birth right, no matter your denomination. You do not need "religion" to have "faith". Religion can be modified, based on the perception of history and reality, faith has always existed, has never changed, and only has 3 purposes; to teach us how to love, trust and forgive, as God does us.
Jesus was showing us what we ALL can do. Not what only ONE could do. His place on earth was not to be an example of "perfect" to us, but an example of "perfect" in us. The war ever since was meant to destroy that bridge, that reality that Jesus brought to us, but keep just enough of its remnants within "religion" to keep people influenced.
Even evil cannot deny the fact that we are God's angels. He gives us a choice to believe in him and live by his side, a controlling God would not.. that's how much faith He has in us.
The greatest sign Jesus gave for the end times is deception. Beware, if it does not agree with what the Bible teaches, steer clear of it!
I'm not sold. If divine love flows, why is there the transaction of belief? The entire Bible follows the transactional model - believe and follow His instruction or be punished and perish. Solomon to David. Judas. Jonah.
It takes me back to an argument we've probably all had in our faith: if I live a good life and abide by the morals of the Book but don't know God or Jesus, am I to perish and have my soul tossed upon the waste of Gehenna? Where is the 'loving God' when He is demanding fealty?
I was taught that Jesus died for our sins, yes, but that He gave it freely to instill in the model He taught us to pattern our lives after: forgive others, turn the other cheek. Be Heaven's representative on earth even knowing that He is the sword and will divide you from your family and property.