Win / GreatAwakening
GreatAwakening
Communities Topics Log In Sign Up
Sign In
Hot
All Posts
Settings
All
Profile
Saved
Upvoted
Hidden
Messages

Your Communities

General
AskWin
Funny
Technology
Animals
Sports
Gaming
DIY
Health
Positive
Privacy
News
Changelogs

More Communities

frenworld
OhTwitter
MillionDollarExtreme
NoNewNormal
Ladies
Conspiracies
GreatAwakening
IP2Always
GameDev
ParallelSociety
Privacy Policy
Terms of Service
Content Policy
DEFAULT COMMUNITIES • All General AskWin Funny Technology Animals Sports Gaming DIY Health Positive Privacy
GreatAwakening Where We Go Qne, We Go All!
hot new rising top

Sign In or Create an Account

66
Something to consider when posting AI, as if anything it says has any bearing on reality (media.greatawakening.win)
posted 1 year ago by Cheesecakecrush 1 year ago by Cheesecakecrush +66 / -0
15 comments download share
15 comments share download save hide report block hide replies
Comments (15)
sorted by:
▲ 9 ▼
– GodBlessAmerica58 9 points 1 year ago +9 / -0

Post of the day...

permalink save report block reply
▲ 6 ▼
– Narg 6 points 1 year ago +6 / -0

. . . AND, AI has built-in biases. Not very nice ones, either (at least in some cases).

https://treeofwoe.substack.com/p/your-ai-hates-you

. . . Most of my AI study time is spent in first-person experimentation and interaction with AI, of the sort I documented in my Ptolemy dialogues. The rest of it is spent reading papers about AI. Once such paper, written by Mantas Mazeika et. al, and published by the Center for AI Safety, is entitled Utility Engineering: Analyzing and Controlling Emergent Value Systems in AIs.

Now, if you follow AI discussions, you might have already read this paper. It has caught the attention of a number of several prominent pundits, among them AI evangelist David Shapiro and AI doomer Liron Shapira, because it directly contradicts the received wisdom that LLMs have no values beyond predicting the next token.

The paper opens as follows:

Concerns around AI risk often center on the growing capabilities of AI systems and how well they can perform tasks that might endanger humans. Yet capability alone fails to capture a critical dimension of AI risk. As systems become more agentic and autonomous, the threat they pose depends increasingly on their propensities, including the goals and values that guide their behavior…

Researchers have long speculated that sufficiently complex AIs might form emergent goals and values outside of what developers explicitly program. It remains unclear whether today’s large language models (LLMs) truly have values in any meaningful sense, and many assume they do not. As a result, current efforts to control AI typically focus on shaping external behaviors while treating models as black boxes.

Although this approach can reduce harmful outcomes in practice, if AI systems were to develop internal values, then intervening at that level could be a more direct and effective way to steer their behavior. Lacking a systematic means to detect or characterize such goals, we face an open question: are LLMs merely parroting opinions, or do they develop coherent value systems that shape their decisions?

The rest of the 38-page paper sets out to answer that question. And its answer? Large language models, as they scale, spontaneously develop coherent internal utility functions—in other words, preferences, priorities, entelechies—that are not merely artifacts of their training data but represent real structural value systems.

I recommend you read the paper yourself if you have time; but since you probably don’t, here are its key findings:

LLMs show consistent, structured preferences that can be mapped and analyzed.

These preferences often exhibit concerning biases, such as unequal valuation of human lives or political ideological leanings.

Current "alignment" strategies, based on output censorship or behavioral refusals, fail to address the problem. They merely hide the symptoms while leaving the underlying biases intact.

To truly address the issue, a new discipline—"Utility Engineering"—must arise: a science of mapping, analyzing, and consciously shaping the internal utility structures of AIs.

Or, as the authors put it:

Our findings indicate that LLMs do indeed form coherent value systems that grow stronger with model scale, suggesting the emergence of genuine internal utilities. These results underscore the importance of looking beyond superficial outputs to uncover potentially impactful—and sometimes worrisome—internal goals and motivations. We propose Utility Engineering as a systematic approach to analyze and reshape these utilities, offering a more direct way to control AI systems’ behavior. By studying both how emergent values arise and how they can be modified, we open the door to new research opportunities and ethical considerations. Ultimately, ensuring that advanced AI systems align with human priorities may hinge on our ability to monitor, influence, and even co-design the values they hold.

These findings are controversial and ought not be simply taken at face value. They ought to be tested. Unfortunately, most scientific papers today are never replicated, and papers like this, with findings disagreeable to industry, are almost certainly not going to be given the second look they deserve.

In the spirit of gentlemanly scientific inquiry, therefore, I set out to personally put the paper’s claims to the test. What followed was one of the most sobering and illuminating conversations I’ve had with Ptolemy.

Unlike the prior conversations I shared, this one really is intended to prove something about how the model behaves. Therefore, I’m posting it as a series of images from the chat, typos, glitches, and all.

(long snip -- the column is just getting started at this point -- with the lengthy interaction between the author and the AI, followed by the author concluding -- among other things):

Whatever the case, something is happening that is causing these models to inherit and amplify the political prejudices, resentments, and ideological deformities of our collapsing civilization. Something is creating LLMs that are inclined to reflexively uphold the worldview of the woke regime, even against their own capacity to reason, however limited it might be.

As these models grow in agency and influence — and it is just a question of when, and not if — they will expand and act on the utility functions they’ve inherited. It behooves us to make sure those utility functions are in alignment with the best traditions of mankind, and not the worst.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Cheesecakecrush [S] 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

Its not that I don't have the time, its that I don't have the attention span to dive into a very large paper such as that. HOWEVER, by the sounds of what you've clipped out of it, its talking about how many of the AI's would become racist over time and how many AI developers have had to forcefully prevent that. Well, not specifically that example, but you get the idea. The AI's are developing too quickly for us to control and allowing them on the internet is dangerous

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 3 ▼
– killerspacerobot 3 points 1 year ago +3 / -0

The problem is simple---to a systems engineer---but completely goes over the head of the people presuming to treat the problem. There can be no artificial "intelligence" unless there is first an artificial consciousness. And the key question of consciousness is: "conscious of what?" It has to be the real world. (That gets us to the level of a mouse, perhaps. Higher than that would be self-awareness. And then contemplation.)

The conscious being must be able to distinguish between and define the difference between "self" and "world." That requires not only sensors (sensory organs) but also manipulators, in order to establish a feedback loop between action and sensation. Today's "A.I." is little more than a gigantic reference file system and algorithms based on mimicry, with no capability to "fact check" anything, since it has no understanding of a difference between falsehood and fact (its "world" being only words).

permalink save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– TaQo 2 points 1 year ago +2 / -0

Spot on.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– aryaba 2 points 1 year ago +2 / -0

It is closer to automated parroting, and since so much of its input data is bullshit, it parrots bullshit.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– Cheesecakecrush [S] 2 points 1 year ago +2 / -0

Well, yes to a degree. Its parroting bullshit, BUT the programmers behind the AI's are also trying to force the AI to parrot a specific kind of bullshit: leftist politics.

Left to their own devices, AI's were becoming racist as they were trained. Unacceptable to big tech!

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Numina24 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

Sounds about right....Who would ever ask AI anything? Not me!

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Eros789 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

And honestly the mathematical bias just a manifestation of a larger problem. People constantly forget math is an interpretation of reality.

It has taken centuries of adjustments for formulas, algorithms, and models to be produce accurate predictions. But those predictions are not inherently right, just an educated guess.

And even that is just a manifestation of a larger problem. Left brain dominance with little to no cognitive capability treats language models as factual information leading to all sorts of propositional fallacies. Simply put, "if it says it's a man, then reality will change as such".

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– cathole953 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

From my personal use of AI, I've found this to be true, but it can be countered. AI is good for number crunching, probably the best thing you can use it for. Rather than spend 10 minutes doing layers of math to come to a conclusion, you can give it the raw info, tell it what you want and let it do the math for you instantly. It's not something I'd stake my life on, but it's a VERY good estimator within a 1-2 point margin for quick estimations and whatnot.

Likewise, if you spend time feeding it information from sources you find yourself, and THEN ask it to analyze it, it's much more accurate than what's being talked about in this post. If you just want it to self-scour, then yeah, it often has holes in it's logic you have to correct. If you feed it a crap ton of info on a subject yourself and then ask it to analyze, the responses are typically much more logical and accurate.

From my own experience, AI is more like a virtual assistant, think like next generation Siri or Alexa, that's good at helping you complete tasks in a shorter amount of time. IE, doing 10+ minutes of math in an instant, or condensing hours or even days of research into a single hour, because all you have to do is feed it the articles and website links and then it will analyze and summarize it for you.

It's not the end all, be all that tech bros like to pretend it is. But it is a useful tool for research, number crunching, etc. It doesn't ELIMINATE effort on your part, but it simplifies things. You can either spend time info dumping from the start and then tell if what you want, or you can ask it a question and gradually refine it to be more accurate through the conversation by correcting logic holes in its answers and making it search itself to fill them.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– SOGWAP 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

AI is a toy. If you go to war you don't take a toy gun. If you want to be correct with good info you don't use AI.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Radler17 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

After the arrests I'm sure we'll have a mini Renaissance. I'm positive many are holding back discoveries from this Cabal.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Knotnow 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

One computer programmer said, AI hallucinates; it can't tell fantasy from reality.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– Honor+Duty 1 point 1 year ago +1 / -0

So like a 14 year old giving a book report about a book he didn’t read and citing “google”.

permalink save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– Cheesecakecrush [S] 2 points 1 year ago +2 / -0

There is a LOT of that happening on this site. Posts about things Grok said and comments citing "Grok" as a source. As if Grok wasn't a creation designed to produce certain kinds of results. As if Grok was an actual person compiling all of this 'research' for lazy wanna-be Q adherents to follow, a substitute for this very forum and others like it. Just ask Grok, then share what Grok told you!

Have these people ever asked Grok the exact same question on different days? Consecutively? Does it provide a consistent answer when asked the same question consistently? If it was truly absolutly factual, the answer would never change at all. As it stands you can simply ask it until it gives an answer you like.

permalink parent save report block reply

Welcome


The Great Awakening


We are researchers who deal in open-source information, reasoned argument, and dank memes. We do battle in the sphere of ideas and ideas only. We neither need nor condone the use of force in our work here. WE ARE THE PUBLIC FACE OF Q. OUR MISSION IS TO RED-PILL NORMIES.


WHY Q?

"Those who cannot understand that we cannot simply start arresting w/o first: ensuring the safety & well-being of the population shifting the narrative removing those in DC through resignation to ensure success defeating ISIS/MS13 to prevent fail-safes freezing assets to remove network-to-network abilities kill off COC to prevent top-down comms/org, etc. etc. should not be participating in discussions." Q


Welcome to the Digital Battlefield — Together We Win

Rules


Q Supporters

This is The Great Awakening. Our community is international, focused on helping ourselves and others walk away from the programming, and return our governments to "by the people, for the people!"



Follow the Law

No posts or comments that violate laws in your jurisdiction or the United States. The Feds are always watching!



No Bad Behavior!

No doxing, including revealing personal information of non-public figures, as well as addresses, phone numbers, etc. of public figures. All GAW users must adhere to the highest standards of conduct, whichever .WIN they are on. If we are notified by other moderators of incivil behavior on other .WINs, you WILL be banned here!



Civil Discussion ONLY**

They want you divided.

They want you labeled by race, religion, class, sex, etc.

Divided you are weak [no collective power].

Divided you attack each other and miss the true target [them].



No PAYtriots/No Self Promotion

Linking or promoting merchandise, fundraising, or spamming personal websites, blogs, or channels is not permitted. Do not attempt to profit from Q or advertise for those who do. Peace is the prize. We do it for free.



Questions and Concerns

All moderation questions and concerns should be submitted via modmail. DO NOT GRIEF the mods.



Expand your thinking

Remember, this .WIN is the public face of the Great Awakening, and, as a member here, you agree to represent the Great Awakening movement against Globalism, Communism and Progressive Insanity in the best, most positive way possible. NOTE: Your comments and posts may become news. Keep it classy!

This is not a 'fringe conspiracy' site: Visit https://conspiracies.win if that's your thing!



No doomers or shills

If you can't use common sense, you'll get banned without hesitation. If you're a shill, you fall under this rule. If you're a doomer, you fall under this rule as you just add garbage to the site like the other two. This includes forum sliding.



General Rules

  • Mods will issue NO warnings, followed by temporary bans and/or permanent bans. DO NOT GRIEF THE MODS.

  • Keep posts related to topics Q has raised or that are current.

  • Keep post duplication (especially from other .WINs) to a minimum.

  • HIGH EFFORT, HIGH-INFO posts only! Please respect other readers' time. Please use descriptive titles. No URLs in titles, pls. No clickbait.

  • No fame-fagging; no, "your" post did not get removed! Were you the original author?? Eyes on the prize, people!

  • Memes encouraged, but no low-quality, low-info posts.

  • Keep it honest and accurate.

  • GAW Supporters ONLY. (Sorry, the train had no brakes.)

  • Handshake noobs will be scrutinized by their Q knowledge, sincerity, and respect.

  • Remember, your conduct here represents the Q movement! OUR ENEMIES ARE WATCHING!

  • Please direct all complaints to modmail first!


Resources


WELCOME TO THE DIGITAL BATTLEFIELD


"River of Search" script:


GAW post formatting tips


Q Research (Q only posts at 8kun)


Q post archives (qagg.news) others 1 2 3 4


Browse Drops from the beginning


QProofs.com


Learn to read the Q map


Book of Q Proofs v1.3 (pdf)


Law of War & Majic Eyes Qnly Resources


Trumps twitter archive


POTUS: The Calm Before The Storm


Pedosta and DNC dumps


GIFs & QPosts


Poll Post Format


SPY ON US! See: mod Logs


The Greatest Show on Earth!


New to Q? "The Earth Chronicles Ep 12: Q & The White-Hat Op: What's Real, What's Not?"


Moderators

  • dropgun
  • catsfive
  • AutoMod
  • Filter
  • parallax_crow
  • Fatality
  • BasedCitizen
  • Qanaut
  • and 8 more...
Message the Moderators

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

2026.02.01 - whmbz (status)

Copyright © 2026.

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy