It’s not particularly great outcome. From a letter of the law/legal perspective. But it makes sense from a pragmatic perspective. Some industries. Particularly Agriculture and Hotel/Leisure Businesses have become heavily reliant. If not completely dependent on illegal labor.
We frankly don’t have the raw population numbers to pick up the slack in all the industries that’ll need bodies.
Even if we employed everyone on Welfare full time and they were all 100% physically capable and not addicted to any illicit substances. That still wouldn’t make up the slack.
It’s a numbers game. The Economy needs bodies. Even with automation off setting the cost in bodies. There’s not enough Americans of working age or entering working age.
Again I should have to say. I don’t like this move. Nor do I support it. But I could see why he’d make the move. As infuriating as it maybe.
I understand why as well. And while I don't 100% agree with letting them stay, the reason you state above is very practical. Plus I think that him showing some nuance here will likely endear Trump to a huge amount of people who will then turn and support him- thus kind of thwarting the Dem's strategy with letting illegals in anyway. (Plus, honestly, how will the mainstream media spin this as racist or bad without looking even more hypocritical??)
Again, I don't agree with this stance totally- I think if you're here illegally that you should be deported- but for right now, I would rather see the administration focus on the ones who have just poured over the border like water these last few years- you know, the ones imported for Dem votes- than on ones who came over decades ago and haven't committed crimes and have been law abiding. Maybe we can come back and address them later on once the flood of illegals who came over under the Biden administration have been dealt with.
Regardless of who is in charge, we need to hold their feet to the fire to make sure all criminal border crossers are deported, regardless whether they committed any acts of violence against Americans.
All laws, and even policies, are full of grey areas. The trick for those in charge, i.e. CEs or Prez. is to define the intention of the new law, and then legislate it. Case in point: Deport illegal alien Criminals.
However, without grey areas, one will run into problems, because there are always individuals who 'fall between the cracks', and will be judged too harshly, or conversely, an ill-defined grey area can be driven through, with 18-wheel trucks collecting cash, so to speak. (that is: people will take the opportunity to subvert the system.) <We are here.
So, to summarize the executive actions: First there is the intent of the policy, i.e., deport the crimial aliens. Second, write the policy/law/executive order. Third, know and keep discovering the grey areas, and get very specific how to navigate the 'exceptional' cases. This exerise is not 'going back on promises;, it is making he finer points. So the last process has to be exponentially more thoroughly done than anything else, when writing law or policy.
So, I believe that a massive grey area exists that captures possibly millions or people - i.e., Sabrina Latina worked here for 5 years and she is the most reliable employee of all, we would be devastated to lose her - then the employer should be able to 'vouch' for the employee in some formal way.
Sort of like a trusted employer-nomination of preferred citizenship, or a personal commendation of good character - to facilitate rapid citizenship, on a set of pre-defined conditions, of course - terms and conditions apply.
And then the government must provide clearly described organization-level help for the commended employee so that compilation of the legally prescribed evidences and the lodging of legal forms and completing the process, is rapid, online and live. [<This bit is what I suspect is gwan wrong all these years - a massive backlog of paper. Millions of data-points completely uncaptured, and some sad bureaucrats scratching their heads in a basement, faced with scanning old paper only half-filled in, into a system - LOL].
After all. IF the narrative is to rapidly deport criminals, there should be a counternarrative that is: it should be appropriate to state an intent to not go after the good citizen wannabes, who should be welcome, BTW - but of course they are.
So, if good person = make Legal - just digitize the process already - you can have as many checks you want. Gee - I sound like one of those techy lefties now, LOL
In this way, the diligent workers, at least, don't have to live in fear - BONUS: the lefties have their fangs pulled, and well-behaved adults have an incentive to become an American. One can argue that they came here thinking it was legal. (and that's Biden's fault). So,(how many millions of people?) did not INTEND to break the law.
So I suppose there needs to be a time limitation for this sort of thing, to prevent people coming here in the hope of staying for five years (how are they getting jobs?) before even starting the process.
There is a Visa system, of course, which after several years of re-applying for extensions, etc, one can apply for citizenship. That works for normal people.
I agree. Work-sites that have whole gangs speaking another language are nuts. Suddenly one needs bi-lingual site foremen, and retarded picture-signs everywhere. They did not see that coming when teaching Construction Management degrees, or indeed OSH-management:
Must speak both English and Spanish (and French as well? Chinese?) to fill this Commerial Site-Management role.
There are programs for migrant workers to do that stuff legally. Companies STILL choose the illegals - screwing the legal migrants doing things the right way.
Stop the illegals 100%, and raise the numbers of authorized seasonal workers. The illegals either don't want to declare their pay (taxes), or don't want to be identified because of their background. Otherwise they could just go the legal route with the legal programs.
The companies and the illegals (along with the demons) have everyone suckered, and the demons are happy because they get more people in the state to get more House seats (and electoral votes).
No you have asked those that came during the Biden administration to leave.
If there are illegals here that have families,never used any services for free and work full time supporting their families and adding to the economy. Why would you want them to leave?
Actually I do want them to leave. Some of these DACA people have been here longer than the Obama administration, and they just keep trying to renew their DACA status. They had 13 YEARS to just go file citizenship or even green card paperwork but they didn't. They would've been approved under Zero or Brandon easily. I even have a friend that is in the same boat. Fortunately she got married last year and is in that process now.
I'm sick of hearing how DACA people are here not of their own choice. BS. There is only a VERY small amount of people here that could be on DACA and are too young to take matters into their own hands - and their parent's could've done it for them. They were probably afraid to do it because they aren't DACA and are illegals.
Another angle that I have not read about is how illegal immigration affects new and upcoming AMERICAN businesses. I know this from experience as a new and upcoming AMERICAN business owner. We don't have outrageous pricing but will never be able to beat Pablo's pricing.... Considering we don't have any government handouts and don't have another country to send our money to, it affects our ability to grow at a faster, yet organic rate.
Isn't this old news? Didn't he more or less say he was gonna sign an executive order to allow some of these people to stay under a temporary work visa if they work in specific industries (agriculture, hospitality, etc.) where it'd be hard to completely replace them overnight?
Like, and I could be wrong here since I'm going off memory of an article I read when he first said this stuff, his plan is/was to more or less give them a conditional work visa where their employers would have to vouch for them and would be held responsible if they do anything illegal, basically like a regular work visa with a sponsor, so as to prevent any of the murdering rapist drug lord types from staying here on such a visa. And they WOULD have to leave eventually, as it would be a seasonal work visa, but they could reapply for again next season and keep going back and forth like a regular temp worker.
Overall I'm not particularly worried about it, they're obviously going after crap loads of illegals with all the videos of Contruction sites and farms being emptied out at the sight of an ICE vehicle. People keep complaining about how there's only been X amount of deportations, but don't consider the self deportations that aren't being reported, because there's not really a way to report it. Reverse border crossings are at an all time high and steadily increasing as time goes on. And those statistics don't consider crossings where there wasn't an encounter out in the middle of the desert, nor does it account for people taking planes back to their country of origin.
If I were to hazard a guess, this is a slow process and this is a temporary measure to ensure vital industries don't blow up overnight (like food production for example) and will gradually be reversed as time goes on and we dismantle the cabals influence.
I obviously have no proof of this, but I HIGHLY suspect that once the cat's out of the bag and the cabal falls (pun intended), we'll see a massive influx of european, Australian, and Canadian (assuming we don't annex them) immigrants into the US. Kind of like what happend at the turn of the century in the early 1900s with Italians and Irish, but with more nationalities. The brainwashing is MUCH heavier in Europe, Australia, etc. but there IS a sizable portion of the population whose values and ideals are much closer to American ideals and values than those of their country of origin. And once the cabal is out of the picture, I'd assume many would rush to immigrate to the US since we'd be the first "de-cabalized" nation that's up and running, thus allowing us to replace the illegal laborers with first generation American's (in the making) whose values and ideals are basically identical to our own.
Of course wages and the like will have to go up, but I digress, once the ridiculous rothschild economic system is done away with, that'll be a minor inconvenience and much easier to fix.
Yeah, he has mentioned that a few times. I am actually ok with allowing the long timers to stay with guidelines.. No criminal arrest record since been here, have been employed steadily for many years and that they must register, be counted for AND those that have been employing them MUST include them on record and pay the fees/taxes properly for them and must pay them minimum wage.. so on and so forth. There needs to be a Damn good reason for allowing them to stay and they must be self supportive and not getting Taxpayer benefits. Have them re qualify for green card status active maybe? Dont know but, do like this direction. NO one that has only been here for under a specific amount of years should be eligible and it does NOT include any family members who came here and are NOT employed. so on so forth.
They can actually potentially stay for up to 3 years, although it is usually for one year. Then they go home for 60 days and can get another visa through the company.
A few work permits to keep some good ones suddenly takes the talking point right away from the liberals. We have done migrant farm workers for decades. Time to set up a better policy. It won’t be too long before those numbers start to be reduced by robots.
Fun fact, the majority of agriculture already IS mechanized and automated. Pretty much the only areas that still have a great need for physical human labor are specific treee fruit and ground fruit (like apples and strawberries) that can "bruise" and so need to be picked by hand rather than harvested by a shaker or roll over harevester (like cherries and blue berries respectively). Grains, starches (potatoes), and most other vegetables are already harvested using some form of automated mechanization.
Now having said that, the processing is where most of the illegals get hired, and we could gradually wean ourselves off of it into legal migrant workers or local americans, but I have to begrudgingly agree with most here in saying that if we just got rid of ALL of them at once it would cause food hyperinflation because there wouldn't be enough workers to immediately supply the demand and so food would go unprocessed and sorted, thus causing a shortage.
But like you said, lots of things are being automated and replaced with robots. I'd say within the next decade or so, that'll be the norm on most farms instead of hiring crap loads of cheap human labor
I have thought for a long time about a robotic cart with several robotic arms picking the fruit. Each hand would have a multispectral mini camera to identify the fruit and its appropriate ripeness for picking. The whole cart could be raised or lowered for the proper picking height that day. It’s either apples or oranges that need a twisting motion to pick. That can easily be built in.
I know a guy in Florida with a large organic (chicken fertilizer) orange grove that would be willing to try it.
I knew this was coming. Corporate needs its low-wage slaves. 4.5 months in and less than 1% deported. Probably paying hundreds of hours of wages per deport...
Michael Savage put out a long video yesterday about how Trump is losing Hispanic/Latino support due to his rounding up working illegals and children. Savage said it as a warning, and now Trump sounds like he's repeating exactly what Savage advised. He might be worried about doing too much too fast. Who knows?
Except pretty much every metric possible says that among legal hispanic/latinos are increasingly shifting to the right, supporting Trump, and are GREATLY in support of the deportations. The one's who don't support it are the one's effected by it obviously. The one's here legally and their families love this.
Like everyone else is pointing out, this is more about preventing hyper inflation at the grocery store.
It’s not particularly great outcome. From a letter of the law/legal perspective. But it makes sense from a pragmatic perspective. Some industries. Particularly Agriculture and Hotel/Leisure Businesses have become heavily reliant. If not completely dependent on illegal labor.
We frankly don’t have the raw population numbers to pick up the slack in all the industries that’ll need bodies.
Even if we employed everyone on Welfare full time and they were all 100% physically capable and not addicted to any illicit substances. That still wouldn’t make up the slack.
It’s a numbers game. The Economy needs bodies. Even with automation off setting the cost in bodies. There’s not enough Americans of working age or entering working age.
Again I should have to say. I don’t like this move. Nor do I support it. But I could see why he’d make the move. As infuriating as it maybe.
I understand why as well. And while I don't 100% agree with letting them stay, the reason you state above is very practical. Plus I think that him showing some nuance here will likely endear Trump to a huge amount of people who will then turn and support him- thus kind of thwarting the Dem's strategy with letting illegals in anyway. (Plus, honestly, how will the mainstream media spin this as racist or bad without looking even more hypocritical??)
Again, I don't agree with this stance totally- I think if you're here illegally that you should be deported- but for right now, I would rather see the administration focus on the ones who have just poured over the border like water these last few years- you know, the ones imported for Dem votes- than on ones who came over decades ago and haven't committed crimes and have been law abiding. Maybe we can come back and address them later on once the flood of illegals who came over under the Biden administration have been dealt with.
Regardless of who is in charge, we need to hold their feet to the fire to make sure all criminal border crossers are deported, regardless whether they committed any acts of violence against Americans.
"Give them an inch and they'll take a mile."
All laws, and even policies, are full of grey areas. The trick for those in charge, i.e. CEs or Prez. is to define the intention of the new law, and then legislate it. Case in point: Deport illegal alien Criminals.
However, without grey areas, one will run into problems, because there are always individuals who 'fall between the cracks', and will be judged too harshly, or conversely, an ill-defined grey area can be driven through, with 18-wheel trucks collecting cash, so to speak. (that is: people will take the opportunity to subvert the system.) <We are here.
So, to summarize the executive actions: First there is the intent of the policy, i.e., deport the crimial aliens. Second, write the policy/law/executive order. Third, know and keep discovering the grey areas, and get very specific how to navigate the 'exceptional' cases. This exerise is not 'going back on promises;, it is making he finer points. So the last process has to be exponentially more thoroughly done than anything else, when writing law or policy.
So, I believe that a massive grey area exists that captures possibly millions or people - i.e., Sabrina Latina worked here for 5 years and she is the most reliable employee of all, we would be devastated to lose her - then the employer should be able to 'vouch' for the employee in some formal way.
Sort of like a trusted employer-nomination of preferred citizenship, or a personal commendation of good character - to facilitate rapid citizenship, on a set of pre-defined conditions, of course - terms and conditions apply.
And then the government must provide clearly described organization-level help for the commended employee so that compilation of the legally prescribed evidences and the lodging of legal forms and completing the process, is rapid, online and live. [<This bit is what I suspect is gwan wrong all these years - a massive backlog of paper. Millions of data-points completely uncaptured, and some sad bureaucrats scratching their heads in a basement, faced with scanning old paper only half-filled in, into a system - LOL].
After all. IF the narrative is to rapidly deport criminals, there should be a counternarrative that is: it should be appropriate to state an intent to not go after the good citizen wannabes, who should be welcome, BTW - but of course they are.
So, if good person = make Legal - just digitize the process already - you can have as many checks you want. Gee - I sound like one of those techy lefties now, LOL
In this way, the diligent workers, at least, don't have to live in fear - BONUS: the lefties have their fangs pulled, and well-behaved adults have an incentive to become an American. One can argue that they came here thinking it was legal. (and that's Biden's fault). So,(how many millions of people?) did not INTEND to break the law.
So I suppose there needs to be a time limitation for this sort of thing, to prevent people coming here in the hope of staying for five years (how are they getting jobs?) before even starting the process.
There is a Visa system, of course, which after several years of re-applying for extensions, etc, one can apply for citizenship. That works for normal people.
They will need to take steps to become US citizens or leave the country and apply for those seasonal work visas.
Zigackly fren. You said it so muh more succinctly than I did.
I agree. Work-sites that have whole gangs speaking another language are nuts. Suddenly one needs bi-lingual site foremen, and retarded picture-signs everywhere. They did not see that coming when teaching Construction Management degrees, or indeed OSH-management:
There are programs for migrant workers to do that stuff legally. Companies STILL choose the illegals - screwing the legal migrants doing things the right way.
Stop the illegals 100%, and raise the numbers of authorized seasonal workers. The illegals either don't want to declare their pay (taxes), or don't want to be identified because of their background. Otherwise they could just go the legal route with the legal programs.
The companies and the illegals (along with the demons) have everyone suckered, and the demons are happy because they get more people in the state to get more House seats (and electoral votes).
HERE:
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2a-temporary-agricultural-workers
Another promise broken. For fuck's sake.
Its only been 6mos there are 40M+ illegals... this is wayyyy too early.
We've asked them to leave
we've paid them to leave
Now we are just gonna let them stay?
No you have asked those that came during the Biden administration to leave.
If there are illegals here that have families,never used any services for free and work full time supporting their families and adding to the economy. Why would you want them to leave?
It is the good immigrants you want to stay.
Actually I do want them to leave. Some of these DACA people have been here longer than the Obama administration, and they just keep trying to renew their DACA status. They had 13 YEARS to just go file citizenship or even green card paperwork but they didn't. They would've been approved under Zero or Brandon easily. I even have a friend that is in the same boat. Fortunately she got married last year and is in that process now.
I'm sick of hearing how DACA people are here not of their own choice. BS. There is only a VERY small amount of people here that could be on DACA and are too young to take matters into their own hands - and their parent's could've done it for them. They were probably afraid to do it because they aren't DACA and are illegals.
Their first act in the country was to break our law. I want them all out, in the same way of want a burglar our of my house.
Did they pay a penny into taxes the last 20 years???
I doubt it
How about any AMERICAN who can work these jobs who are STILL struggling to find work? Jobless? Homeless? AI is killing jobs left and right too.
I didnt even scratch the surface our VETS are dealing with
I disagree with POTUS on this. STOP GIVING INCHES, WE'RE OUT OF THEM.
Another angle that I have not read about is how illegal immigration affects new and upcoming AMERICAN businesses. I know this from experience as a new and upcoming AMERICAN business owner. We don't have outrageous pricing but will never be able to beat Pablo's pricing.... Considering we don't have any government handouts and don't have another country to send our money to, it affects our ability to grow at a faster, yet organic rate.
Isn't this old news? Didn't he more or less say he was gonna sign an executive order to allow some of these people to stay under a temporary work visa if they work in specific industries (agriculture, hospitality, etc.) where it'd be hard to completely replace them overnight?
Like, and I could be wrong here since I'm going off memory of an article I read when he first said this stuff, his plan is/was to more or less give them a conditional work visa where their employers would have to vouch for them and would be held responsible if they do anything illegal, basically like a regular work visa with a sponsor, so as to prevent any of the murdering rapist drug lord types from staying here on such a visa. And they WOULD have to leave eventually, as it would be a seasonal work visa, but they could reapply for again next season and keep going back and forth like a regular temp worker.
Overall I'm not particularly worried about it, they're obviously going after crap loads of illegals with all the videos of Contruction sites and farms being emptied out at the sight of an ICE vehicle. People keep complaining about how there's only been X amount of deportations, but don't consider the self deportations that aren't being reported, because there's not really a way to report it. Reverse border crossings are at an all time high and steadily increasing as time goes on. And those statistics don't consider crossings where there wasn't an encounter out in the middle of the desert, nor does it account for people taking planes back to their country of origin.
If I were to hazard a guess, this is a slow process and this is a temporary measure to ensure vital industries don't blow up overnight (like food production for example) and will gradually be reversed as time goes on and we dismantle the cabals influence.
I obviously have no proof of this, but I HIGHLY suspect that once the cat's out of the bag and the cabal falls (pun intended), we'll see a massive influx of european, Australian, and Canadian (assuming we don't annex them) immigrants into the US. Kind of like what happend at the turn of the century in the early 1900s with Italians and Irish, but with more nationalities. The brainwashing is MUCH heavier in Europe, Australia, etc. but there IS a sizable portion of the population whose values and ideals are much closer to American ideals and values than those of their country of origin. And once the cabal is out of the picture, I'd assume many would rush to immigrate to the US since we'd be the first "de-cabalized" nation that's up and running, thus allowing us to replace the illegal laborers with first generation American's (in the making) whose values and ideals are basically identical to our own.
Of course wages and the like will have to go up, but I digress, once the ridiculous rothschild economic system is done away with, that'll be a minor inconvenience and much easier to fix.
Yeah, he has mentioned that a few times. I am actually ok with allowing the long timers to stay with guidelines.. No criminal arrest record since been here, have been employed steadily for many years and that they must register, be counted for AND those that have been employing them MUST include them on record and pay the fees/taxes properly for them and must pay them minimum wage.. so on and so forth. There needs to be a Damn good reason for allowing them to stay and they must be self supportive and not getting Taxpayer benefits. Have them re qualify for green card status active maybe? Dont know but, do like this direction. NO one that has only been here for under a specific amount of years should be eligible and it does NOT include any family members who came here and are NOT employed. so on so forth.
Their criminal record is entering America illegally.
Nope
What do you think he means by that, and what do you think he's going to do about it?
123456whatevs, you are correct. I deal with illegal farm workers everyday, the work they do 80% of white guys woulnd't do.
How much are they getting paid? And how much in taxes are they paying?
I'll ask the next owner operator I speak with & let ya know.
"We need a seasonal visa program for this sector where people can apply legally, pay taxes and go back once their contract is up."
That has been available for decades.
Makes me sick! Don't complain unless you hire legal workers!
Agree totally 123456 I'm in Idaho work in a Deere store.
How much in taxes do you think they paid? How many of these jobs can American citizens actually fill without the illegals?
We have enough people to not worry about illegal immigrants running farms.
Sounds like whoever you spoke to are making shit up and blaming Americans for not accepting poverty wages.
They need to leave now, apply for the program and have it fast-tracked, and come in legally.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2a-temporary-agricultural-workers
There have always been provisions for ag workers to come in legally for the season.
They can actually potentially stay for up to 3 years, although it is usually for one year. Then they go home for 60 days and can get another visa through the company.
A few work permits to keep some good ones suddenly takes the talking point right away from the liberals. We have done migrant farm workers for decades. Time to set up a better policy. It won’t be too long before those numbers start to be reduced by robots.
Fun fact, the majority of agriculture already IS mechanized and automated. Pretty much the only areas that still have a great need for physical human labor are specific treee fruit and ground fruit (like apples and strawberries) that can "bruise" and so need to be picked by hand rather than harvested by a shaker or roll over harevester (like cherries and blue berries respectively). Grains, starches (potatoes), and most other vegetables are already harvested using some form of automated mechanization.
Now having said that, the processing is where most of the illegals get hired, and we could gradually wean ourselves off of it into legal migrant workers or local americans, but I have to begrudgingly agree with most here in saying that if we just got rid of ALL of them at once it would cause food hyperinflation because there wouldn't be enough workers to immediately supply the demand and so food would go unprocessed and sorted, thus causing a shortage.
But like you said, lots of things are being automated and replaced with robots. I'd say within the next decade or so, that'll be the norm on most farms instead of hiring crap loads of cheap human labor
Thanks for that bit of data!!
I have thought for a long time about a robotic cart with several robotic arms picking the fruit. Each hand would have a multispectral mini camera to identify the fruit and its appropriate ripeness for picking. The whole cart could be raised or lowered for the proper picking height that day. It’s either apples or oranges that need a twisting motion to pick. That can easily be built in.
I know a guy in Florida with a large organic (chicken fertilizer) orange grove that would be willing to try it.
I knew this was coming. Corporate needs its low-wage slaves. 4.5 months in and less than 1% deported. Probably paying hundreds of hours of wages per deport...
Michael Savage put out a long video yesterday about how Trump is losing Hispanic/Latino support due to his rounding up working illegals and children. Savage said it as a warning, and now Trump sounds like he's repeating exactly what Savage advised. He might be worried about doing too much too fast. Who knows?
Except pretty much every metric possible says that among legal hispanic/latinos are increasingly shifting to the right, supporting Trump, and are GREATLY in support of the deportations. The one's who don't support it are the one's effected by it obviously. The one's here legally and their families love this.
Like everyone else is pointing out, this is more about preventing hyper inflation at the grocery store.