Catholic doctrine: "The Pope is the Vicar of Christ."
"The pope represents Christ on earth until Christ returns."
Vicar; a substitute or stand-in.
There's just one problem with that… Jesus said "For many will come in my name claiming to be the Christ and will deceive many... See to it that you were not deceived."
See, the Romans were very clever. They figured out that the best way to defeat the Christians was to lead them themselves.
You and u/winn are gonna make me translate and post my chart.
FINE.
Dearest Catholics, I do love you, and it is also good for us to remember to always be humble and self-examining for our own planks, which of only myself I can operate a quite profitable lumberyard.
It took years of me being a non-confrontational PITA-by-refusal to help prod that person to come around… on their own… which is one of a small handful of times I’ve been blessed enough to be convincing of something, somehow. Praise be to The Lord!
Proof that u/christine_grab ‘s method works, it’s just hard to execute!!!
Saved it somewhere but don’t see it at the moment. Wasn’t like some 12 step method or anything, just some suggestions like “don’t be overbearing. Not too much information.”
Through something totally not affiliated with politics that happened in my life 20 years ago, I learned the hard way that people will not believe what they see with their own eyes if they don't want to. I learned that if you tell them "Hey, look at this!" they will disregard you. You have to wait for them to ask you about it. Then, when they ask, you have to answer their questions and ONLY their questions, because if you offer more information than they asked about, they will shut down. If you only answer their questions, they will go away and process that information, then come back and ask you another question, go away to process it, etc. But they only come back if you didn't overwhelm them with too much info when they weren't yet emotionally ready to handle it.
I learned that they more often than not do come around, it just takes them time to process that reality is different than what they were led to believe. Some people come around quickly, most take a while, and some will continue to deny it even when what they are denying exists is right in front of them. You can't make them change their perception of reality. They have to want to.
I've found that saying things like, "c'mon dude... you don't actually think XYZ works that way, do you?" can be effective in getting them to admit gullibility to themselves and think about things in a new way.
I've recently had people come back and admit, "When you told me about the child trafficking... I thought you were nuts. Now I can't believe how most people can't see it everywhere...
Bottom line: Keep chipping away even if you think you're not making a difference. Plenty of seeds planted years ago have grown deep roots into the rabbit hole... You just don't know what influence you're having on the world from your perspective... because few will report back that you were right even though they thought you were nuts before.
It's really interesting the opportunities that come up. At a party, a guy was saying that the idea that there was an elite pedophile ring was crazy. I said "Ghislaine Maxwell is in prison right now for running that ring." And I actually saw the lightbulb click on in his head that the propaganda that he'd been fed didn't line up with reality. I believe, at that moment, he became willing to open up his mind to the possibility. I didn't say another word since he didn't initiate, but I'll bet he started digging on his own after that.
It’s got 48 points, about a sentence or two each, and about 45 interconnections, as an image.
It’s been on my list for a while, but haven’t done it cause it’s gonna be a PAIN to try and translate and remake it in English.
Was the document a good friend of mine made as to why they left the Catholic Church (to stop sinning!) while staying Christian. That friend has a LOT more animosity to them than I do (which is easier since I don’t really have any as a whole, except toward bad doctrine and specific corruptions and actions - same as I do with all other organized branches of Christianity). It’s amazing how impatient people can be, says me, who dumps reservoir-sized buckets of information on people without being asked on the reg. Kek.
Walter Vieth has a great series on the Book of Revelation where he shows that the Vatican is the anti-Christ and lines up how what is happening right now directly fills the prophecies in Revelations. This is one of the earlier sermons in the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kG7sFvwwbE
In short according to a Document from 1075 AD. He has all the powers of a King or Emperor in 1075 AD.
Not that it stopped the Catholic Kings and Emperors of 1075 AD from controlling the Church like a puppet and using it against each other. Or people from having the Pope assassinated.
The Vatican as an independent City State also didn’t exist until 1929 due to the Lateran Treaty. Meaning the Pope was effectively a Monarch of nothing from 1870-1929 until the State of Italy gave him permission to be.
Really undercuts the amount of practical authority the Document gives him. When the state you govern exists largely at the Will of an increasingly Secular Government.
Times change. That was some of the thinking that led to the Protestant Reformation, and led some of the European nations to contain or even de-possess the Catholic Church within their nation.
Basically... pride goes before a fall. The Vatican fell hard over the past 1,000 years. It's becoming an increasingly isolated irrelevant dot on a map.
Indeed. The practical power of the Pope even in governing the affairs of the Catholic Church is ever decreasing.
The Cardinals, Bishops, and Religious orders largely run their respective slices of the Churches sphere of influence as Private Fiefdoms. Ironically somewhat echoing the Holy Roman Empire.
TBH. I wouldn’t necessarily be surprised to see it splinter further into distinct sub-denominations dependent on Continent. We’re already seeing it to an extent now. Aside from sharing some prayers and general Doctrinal points. American Catholics diverge from South American Catholics. South American diverge from European etc.
With the Pope effectively taking on the role of a Constitutional Monarch. In charge according to the fancy paper but powerless in any way that matters. With all real power and Authority being held by the factions of Cardinals.
Essentially he’d be a Tourist attraction and fundraising gimmick. They occasionally trot out for a solemn ceremony to read out some speech crafted exclusively by whatever political faction is in power at the time.
I wouldn’t necessarily be surprised to see it splinter further into distinct sub-denominations dependent on Continent.
You might not agree with the Catholic Church -- that's fine -- but be at least a little aware of history. 2000 years, and still one church - 'but it's going to splinter any day now'.
Meanwhile, there are tens of thousands of Protestant denominations.
I didn’t mean it in the traditional sense of formally establishing a new denomination and more in the practical sense. That aside from a few uniting points of mutual agreement they will continue to diverge on a continental basis. While on paper still listening to the Pope. I suppose I should have been clearer on that.
The amount of power the Pope can wield practically is waning. The Bishops, Cardinals, and Religious Orders essentially run private fiefdoms. That while they listen to the Pope on paper in practice do their own thing the majority of the time.
The universal 'oneness' doesn't rely on the various subgroups listening to the Pope. He is, after all, just a man - with his own personal opinions - that each subgroup can choose to agree or disagree with.
With the exception of the incredibly rare occasion where the Pope speaks 'ex cathedra', everyone is free to 'listen on paper' (as you put it). (The last time a Pope spoke 'ex cathedra' - or 'infallibly' - was over 70 years ago.) Unless that is invoked (in order to 'keep the oneness'), everyone is free to disagree with the 'imperfect man' that is the Pope. (Granted, the last one was far more imperfect than most.)
A good Pope helps to keep everyone 'more' together (the same way a good pastor keeps a good local community together). And a bad Pope tends to let things decay.
Outside of of an (extremely rare) 'ex cathedra' pronouncement, the Pope has no power to 'unite everyone'. That's the job of the Holy Spirit.
Still, there are some who talk about the Pope as if he has the power of a dictator. They are quite mistaken.
Really undercuts the amount of practical authority the Document gives him.
Yeah his power took a big hit. But let the record show the true intent and beliefs of the Catholic church and the "pope"
They think they're the literal Kingdom of God on earth, and treat it as such. An error in the highest degree.
Downdoot and prove that you don't understand Jesus' words on the Kingdom of God. Hint: it's not a physical, geopolitical kingdom that forces "God's will" on its subjects. It's the total collective sum of born-again believers. The more people get born again, the bigger the Kingdom gets! Repent, papists! You are in grave error. You are in MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT...
Catholic doctrine:
"The Pope is the Vicar of Christ."
"The pope represents Christ on earth until Christ returns."
Vicar; a substitute or stand-in.
There's just one problem with that…
Jesus said "For many will come in my name claiming to be the Christ and will deceive many... See to it that you were not deceived."
See, the Romans were very clever. They figured out that the best way to defeat the Christians was to lead them themselves.
"Difficult truths." ~Q
You and u/winn are gonna make me translate and post my chart.
FINE.
Dearest Catholics, I do love you, and it is also good for us to remember to always be humble and self-examining for our own planks, which of only myself I can operate a quite profitable lumberyard.
Chart! Chart! Chart! Chart! Chart! Chart!
u/#pepepopcorn
YOU OWE ME AT LEAST TWO GOOD REPLIES, MISTER.
That chart is the same thing for me! Kek.
I shall do my very best, Captain. HOOAH!
o7
👍
In before the sleepers dv you...
u/#catdance
It took years of me being a non-confrontational PITA-by-refusal to help prod that person to come around… on their own… which is one of a small handful of times I’ve been blessed enough to be convincing of something, somehow. Praise be to The Lord!
Proof that u/christine_grab ‘s method works, it’s just hard to execute!!!
Congrats on helping someone to open their eyes when they were ready!
😆
Not familiar with Christine_grab method? Got a pointing?
Saved it somewhere but don’t see it at the moment. Wasn’t like some 12 step method or anything, just some suggestions like “don’t be overbearing. Not too much information.”
u/ILoveIvermectin pointed out the same thing yesterday.
https://greatawakening.win/p/19BtL7Ru0W/x/c/4eVLQNwQxtA
Whereas I tend to be more of an all-firehose, all-the-time kinda operator. HAVE SOME! DRINK IT UP! YUM! GLUG GLUG GLUG
LoL
u/#catpopcorn
Through something totally not affiliated with politics that happened in my life 20 years ago, I learned the hard way that people will not believe what they see with their own eyes if they don't want to. I learned that if you tell them "Hey, look at this!" they will disregard you. You have to wait for them to ask you about it. Then, when they ask, you have to answer their questions and ONLY their questions, because if you offer more information than they asked about, they will shut down. If you only answer their questions, they will go away and process that information, then come back and ask you another question, go away to process it, etc. But they only come back if you didn't overwhelm them with too much info when they weren't yet emotionally ready to handle it.
I learned that they more often than not do come around, it just takes them time to process that reality is different than what they were led to believe. Some people come around quickly, most take a while, and some will continue to deny it even when what they are denying exists is right in front of them. You can't make them change their perception of reality. They have to want to.
Yep ... this has been my experience as well.
I've found that saying things like, "c'mon dude... you don't actually think XYZ works that way, do you?" can be effective in getting them to admit gullibility to themselves and think about things in a new way.
I've recently had people come back and admit, "When you told me about the child trafficking... I thought you were nuts. Now I can't believe how most people can't see it everywhere...
Bottom line: Keep chipping away even if you think you're not making a difference. Plenty of seeds planted years ago have grown deep roots into the rabbit hole... You just don't know what influence you're having on the world from your perspective... because few will report back that you were right even though they thought you were nuts before.
o7
It's really interesting the opportunities that come up. At a party, a guy was saying that the idea that there was an elite pedophile ring was crazy. I said "Ghislaine Maxwell is in prison right now for running that ring." And I actually saw the lightbulb click on in his head that the propaganda that he'd been fed didn't line up with reality. I believe, at that moment, he became willing to open up his mind to the possibility. I didn't say another word since he didn't initiate, but I'll bet he started digging on his own after that.
Dooo it AE!
It’s got 48 points, about a sentence or two each, and about 45 interconnections, as an image.
It’s been on my list for a while, but haven’t done it cause it’s gonna be a PAIN to try and translate and remake it in English.
Was the document a good friend of mine made as to why they left the Catholic Church (to stop sinning!) while staying Christian. That friend has a LOT more animosity to them than I do (which is easier since I don’t really have any as a whole, except toward bad doctrine and specific corruptions and actions - same as I do with all other organized branches of Christianity). It’s amazing how impatient people can be, says me, who dumps reservoir-sized buckets of information on people without being asked on the reg. Kek.
Yeah, and collossians 1:27 says "its Christ in you the hipe of glory".
Each born again one represents Jesus Christ here in earth.
il Papa ...or is it ill Papa ?
Jeez ... it's a real shame only the sleepers recognize your authority.
u/#classywow
Number 19 is hearsay because It is God that is going to judge every Pope including the current one.
Walter Vieth has a great series on the Book of Revelation where he shows that the Vatican is the anti-Christ and lines up how what is happening right now directly fills the prophecies in Revelations. This is one of the earlier sermons in the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kG7sFvwwbE
Idolatry. "His name alone shall be spoken in the chruches"?
There is no other name under heaven and earth whereby man must be saved than Jesus Christ.
The roman church has its foundations in hell.
https://greatawakening.win/p/19AxGmkyav/if-realdonaldtrump-is-exchequer-/
I think GEOTUS took care of any issues re this while the papal seat was vacant.
Oh wow, I missed that post. Hmm. This is dasting, I will have to keep this in mind. Thank you!
In short according to a Document from 1075 AD. He has all the powers of a King or Emperor in 1075 AD.
Not that it stopped the Catholic Kings and Emperors of 1075 AD from controlling the Church like a puppet and using it against each other. Or people from having the Pope assassinated.
The Vatican as an independent City State also didn’t exist until 1929 due to the Lateran Treaty. Meaning the Pope was effectively a Monarch of nothing from 1870-1929 until the State of Italy gave him permission to be.
Really undercuts the amount of practical authority the Document gives him. When the state you govern exists largely at the Will of an increasingly Secular Government.
Times change. That was some of the thinking that led to the Protestant Reformation, and led some of the European nations to contain or even de-possess the Catholic Church within their nation.
Basically... pride goes before a fall. The Vatican fell hard over the past 1,000 years. It's becoming an increasingly isolated irrelevant dot on a map.
Indeed. The practical power of the Pope even in governing the affairs of the Catholic Church is ever decreasing.
The Cardinals, Bishops, and Religious orders largely run their respective slices of the Churches sphere of influence as Private Fiefdoms. Ironically somewhat echoing the Holy Roman Empire.
TBH. I wouldn’t necessarily be surprised to see it splinter further into distinct sub-denominations dependent on Continent. We’re already seeing it to an extent now. Aside from sharing some prayers and general Doctrinal points. American Catholics diverge from South American Catholics. South American diverge from European etc.
With the Pope effectively taking on the role of a Constitutional Monarch. In charge according to the fancy paper but powerless in any way that matters. With all real power and Authority being held by the factions of Cardinals.
Essentially he’d be a Tourist attraction and fundraising gimmick. They occasionally trot out for a solemn ceremony to read out some speech crafted exclusively by whatever political faction is in power at the time.
Do you hear yourself?
You might not agree with the Catholic Church -- that's fine -- but be at least a little aware of history. 2000 years, and still one church - 'but it's going to splinter any day now'.
Meanwhile, there are tens of thousands of Protestant denominations.
I do hear myself.
I didn’t mean it in the traditional sense of formally establishing a new denomination and more in the practical sense. That aside from a few uniting points of mutual agreement they will continue to diverge on a continental basis. While on paper still listening to the Pope. I suppose I should have been clearer on that.
The amount of power the Pope can wield practically is waning. The Bishops, Cardinals, and Religious Orders essentially run private fiefdoms. That while they listen to the Pope on paper in practice do their own thing the majority of the time.
The universal 'oneness' doesn't rely on the various subgroups listening to the Pope. He is, after all, just a man - with his own personal opinions - that each subgroup can choose to agree or disagree with.
With the exception of the incredibly rare occasion where the Pope speaks 'ex cathedra', everyone is free to 'listen on paper' (as you put it). (The last time a Pope spoke 'ex cathedra' - or 'infallibly' - was over 70 years ago.) Unless that is invoked (in order to 'keep the oneness'), everyone is free to disagree with the 'imperfect man' that is the Pope. (Granted, the last one was far more imperfect than most.)
A good Pope helps to keep everyone 'more' together (the same way a good pastor keeps a good local community together). And a bad Pope tends to let things decay.
Outside of of an (extremely rare) 'ex cathedra' pronouncement, the Pope has no power to 'unite everyone'. That's the job of the Holy Spirit.
Still, there are some who talk about the Pope as if he has the power of a dictator. They are quite mistaken.
Until they paired their banking with the ashkanazi.
Yeah his power took a big hit. But let the record show the true intent and beliefs of the Catholic church and the "pope"
They think they're the literal Kingdom of God on earth, and treat it as such. An error in the highest degree.
Downdoot and prove that you don't understand Jesus' words on the Kingdom of God. Hint: it's not a physical, geopolitical kingdom that forces "God's will" on its subjects. It's the total collective sum of born-again believers. The more people get born again, the bigger the Kingdom gets! Repent, papists! You are in grave error. You are in MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT...
Well said Winn.
this turned into a big ol thing kek 😅
I like these debates though. I learn a lot and hopefully at least give Romanists something to consider. I truly feel bad for them