President Trump has repeated several times when referring to this peace deal: paraphrase: the biggest thing since 3,000 years or at least 500. So what happened about 3,000 years ago?
Answer:
United Kingdom of Israel: The traditional date for King David becoming king is 1006 BC, marking the start of a "golden age" for the kingdom under his rule and his successor, Solomon.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
What happened about 500 years ago? Several things, including Protestant Reformation and the discovery of America by Columbus. What just happened? Trump signed an EO bringing back Columbus Day as the holiday and ditching indigenous people day at the federal level.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
Protestant reformation gave rise to the end day prophesies, gave rise to Christian support for bringing Jews to Palestine so they could force second coming. This have rise to the current day Israel.
Trump is calling out Israel itself for the conflict
What does that even mean? Martin Luther was 1517. Every one of the 66 canonical books of the bible were written prior to 100 AD. There isn't a single end day prophesy that wasn't written prior to Protestantism by at least 4 centuries.
The 2 witnesses, the 42 months of gentile trampling with restoration afterward, the "man of sin" entering the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God ... these were written long before Protestantism and require a nation of Jews presiding over Jerusalem in the end times.
Plus why the dig at protestants, you think the Catholics don't believe in the mentions of Israel/Jerusalem in the bible?
There are two notions that get conflated together quite often. That Protestants think Israel/Jews are relevant in scripture, and Protestants who supposedly want all our tax dollars sent to Israel because of it.
I personally, in many decades of going to church (mostly baptist, some non-denominational), have never heard anyone recommend our tax dollars go to Israel. I went to youtube searching for any sermon that recommends Americans send tax dollars to Israel, couldn't find one. Support Israel in prayer? Sure. With money? No. Feel free to prove me wrong, drop a link to a sermon somewhere.
Sympathy for the Jews after WW2 pushed the UN to recognize the state of Israel. Russia pushed for this too since half of the Jews in Israel were from Russia. They lived on commune farms just like Socialist. Russia thought they would gain a foothold in the Middle East. Although Christian support for Israel went through the roof after Life Magazine and others shared photos of the Concentration camps being liberated, it had nothing to do with the Reformation. Luther himself was an X-Catholic that believed the Church replaced Israel as God's chosen and he was ANTI SEMITIC for sure is you read what he said about the Jews. Jus sayin
The original contention I responded to was "Protestant reformation gave rise to the end day prophesies".
You say Luther hated Jews, which is true. He also heavily influenced the council of Trent which was the final round of canonization of the 66 books of the bible.
So then, in the 1500s, over 4 centuries after the final book of the bible was written, the 66 books were canonized and a large number of those who participated in the council of Trent didn't like Jews.
That only makes my point, that Protestants didn't invent end day prophesies to prop up modern day Israel. They didn't like Jews, so why would they?
Nevertheless, the canonized books have many references to Jerusalem being controlled by Jews in the end times. It's not a fabrication of modern day Protestants (or even 1500s Protestants), it's the word of God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Explain how that can happen if there is no Temple in Jerusalem, if Jerusalem isn't under control by Jews.
You don't have to like Jews to recognize that Jews have to exist in order for prophesies of God to come true, and those words aren't a fabrication of Protestants.
My understanding, and belief, is that the temple is the body of Christ, not a brick and mortar building. When Jesus Christ said he was the stone that the builders rejected, and again, when he said "Destroy this temple and it will rise up again in three days". With baptism and confessing God in Christ as our savior, the temple is built, and it goes on building, with each conversion and with each renewal of Faith. Only God knows the number of souls it will take to complete his temple. Jews existed to complete the line of David, in the birth of Jesus.Which is why the Messiah prophesied in Isaiah was not born in China or the New World, or to non Jewish parents.
The verse is this:
So you think the anti-Christ will pretend he's God and sit in you? How does that even make sense?
No. I believe end times prophecy that declares a temple must be built in Jerusalem, before Christ returns, has led many to be misled, and taken too literally. Christ is the temple, his Holy Spirit fills those with Faith, and removes the sense of self, we become alive again, with a new life, filled with the Holy Spirit, which is why we remove from our lives sins of the flesh, sins of thought, seeing through a glass darkly. We, as Christians, are the New Jerusalem. It is not geographic, it is Universal.
Again, this is the scripture. I'm going to substitute "temple of God" with ________.
You think "Christ" belongs in that slot? You think the anti-Christ is going to sit in "Christ"?
Everyone is bending themselves into a pretzel trying to make the temple not a real physical temple, and not a single suggestion makes the verse make sense.
Not actually difficult, demons whisper and tickle the ear of mortal men all the time, and if the Holy Spirit isn't in you that leaves space for demons to come in.
Not saying that interpretation is correct.
But the 3rd Temple being the body of Christ (The Church, via Communion), is basic Ecclesiology and Christology. A temple not made with human hands.
There are preterist interpretations of that verse, that it applies to AD 70 not a future theoretical 3rd temple building. Julian the Apostate tried and failed to build such. As Christians it would behoove us not to be on Team Julian at a minimum.
Catholics call the daily mass “the daily sacrifice of the mass,” which makes me wonder if the daily sacrifice that is stopped is this one. Also that the anti christ may set up in the Vatican when he stops the daily sacrifice. Just a theory. You would have to have a deeper understanding of what the sacrifice of the mass is though.
You're not wrong, except I think bubbles' point is that the modern concept of apocalyptic revelation was introduced long after the original writings. Stuff like floating away in rapture, waiting for Jesus instead of seeking him, etc.
As for supporting Israel, you must not have been going to church in the south. In most church-goers eyes Israel is as important as the USA. In their minds they link the modern nation-state with the home of Jesus Christ. Many would be willing to fight and die for it, however misguided...
Tru dat ☝️
And you can't really fault them can you? Un-brainwashing must be done carefully...
Yes, absolutely..
Giving to them is a man thing, which cannot be conflated to a God thing.
Forest, trees is a troubling thing.
I believe the bible without man made dates. Daniel talked about 70 times 7 years. That was the amount of time the Jewish nation had to complete what God called them for. Without going into detail here (you can do it yourself) the last 7 was this. Jesus was baptize by John. His ministry lasted 3 1/2 year then he was cut off. The next 3 1/2 years the gosple went only to the Jews. Then Peter saw the sheet of unclean animals and from that he knew that the gosple was for all people. Reminber the entire 70x7 years was the amount of time the JEWISH nation had not the world. (Daniel 9:24)
Daniel 9:27 has been twisted to push todays political view. that verse says. He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. People try to claim that is a future anti christ because of the english translation. If you really look at it you will see that it is about Jesus. He confirmed the new covernant for the last 7 years. in the middle of that 7 he was "cut off". He became the ultimate sacrifice. Be doiing that He ended the sacrifcial system. Those that continued to sacrifice were doing so outside of God's will. Because of the abomination of rejecting Gods plan the temple was destroyed 40 years later by the people of the ruler to come.
.
According to the gospels Jesus when sacrificed on the tree was a lamb of the first year. His ministry started when he was 30 yo. That is a fulfilling of the law. It was over before he was 31 yo. Sacrificed as the true passover on 14 Nissan 3 B.C. between the hours of 3 and 6 pm. A very clear working of Gods Word in the subject an be found in the book "Jesus Christ our passover" by V.P. Weirwille. Its worth reading if you care about the accuracy of Gods Word.
And he was birthed in the manger that was used for birthing the yearly Passover lamb.
And they wrote God’s Name above him.
I sold my original VPW books decades ago. Is there on line versions? I'm guessing, not, because they don't give anything away for free.
Be thou welcome
https://ia601608.us.archive.org/35/items/012-jcops/011JCOP.pdf
I ist are
🙏
The specific reason would be dispensationalism. A heresy that blossomed due to private interpretation of scripture, along with the Judaizing tendency. Of course, that is only how it played out in history, we don't have the counterfactual timeline to compare it to.
Dispensationalism is real, of course.
There was a time when God commanded that someone be put to death if you worked on Saturday.
Today, God does not command that we be put to death if we work on Saturday.
Why the difference, if not dispensationalism?
There was a time mankind were under the law. Today we're not under the law. Sounds like "a series of distinct historical periods" to me. What other explanation is there?
Covenants were made with specific people groups, the exceptions being the Adamic and Noahide.
Dispensationalists believe that the Abrahamic and Mosiac Covenants hold, and thus there is a special role for the race called Jews. It is not an accident this belief arises with Darwin and the belief in superior and inferior races.
It would be the greatest tragedy for Dispensationalists if all of Abraham's physical seed converted to Christ. Whereas it is the Father's wish that all men be saved, and the Apostles spent great effort in converting their ethnic brothers.
Edit: Of course the new covenant made by Christ is universally offered and is universally binding as well.
It's easy to prove that God dealt with mankind differently during different periods f history. I already gave the example of being put to death for working on Saturday when we were under the law.
Yet no Christian thinks someone should be put to death for that today, because we are under grace.
Romans 6:14
Anyone who believes Romans 6:14 does not believe the Mosaic covenant still holds.
Yet they are still dispensationalists to recognize the different periods of time where God dealt with mankind differently.
Hence, not all dispensationalists believe Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants hold, because they don't think the Mosaic covenant still holds.
The first problem with your example is that is implies God changes. He is eternal, and thus changeless.
The Law is given to a specific people for a specific purpose, to prepare the way for Christ. It is not how God treated all of Mankind, just a set way of life for a particular people. Hence a Covenant not some thing bound to time, as God himself is also not temporal. Not that it matters since the Torah was never implemented by the Israelites anyways. It also served to show how political power is not salvific, despite all the utopian systems since then.
Specific people, specific purpose, specific period of time.
Congratulations, you're a dispensationalist.
Again, the definition:
How is that any different than what you just said?
Exactly. Because if it was, it wouldn't be dispensationalism according to the definition, would it? "Distinct eras".
AI response:
If only that Christians knew individually just how powerful they are with the gift of holy spirit in them. God and even just one of His children make a majority.
THIS! A Thousand times! ✨🙌
Incorrect.
End time prophesies were made by Daniel, circa 600 B.C.
And he wasn't the only one, even Jesus made end time prophesies and gave warning signs.
The end times started when He resurrected.
I don't think we can pin that on Luther, et al. ... Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel , for example, all prophesied of the Jews return to Israel.
It's a very common and well known Biblical theme. God Hinself said he would bring His people back from the 4 corners of the earth to the land He had promosed and given to them.
It's not a conspiracy, yet man in his limited mind/understanding and futile efforts to know the mind of God, try to make sense of One whose thoughts and ways are higher than ours. Who can know the mind of God?
There is a big difference between the End times Jesus talked about, and the End times the Evangelists / Christian Zionists believe in.
Jesus made it clear that no one will know when the End times will occur. Matthew 24:36-51 goes into great detail to drive this point home with many examples about how no one will know when this will happen:
24:36: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
24:42: "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come."
And yet, the Christian Zionists not only believe that they know when it will happen, but they also believe that they themselves can hasten this by doing certain things which includes:
Forcing Jews to go back to Palestine
Persecuting Jews until they accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour
They believe that if they do this, then they can make the second coming happen and in the process become part of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Christian Zionism does not come from a place of love for the Israelites but from a selfish goal of wanting to become part of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Of course, no one acknowledges this. They coat it with a thick veneer of "Love for our Jewish brothers and sisters who have suffered so much", while all along, as the historical events were shaping up resulting in the forceful migration of European Jews to Palestine, they silently watched it unfold all the while gleefully believing that the End times were near.
Now that we have established that Christian Zionism does not come from love for Jews, but rather the kind of indifference (to say the least) you show towards someone who is simply a means to bring about the ends you want, lets explore why I "pin this on Luther".
From Martin Luther's Jews and their Lies
What I find incredibly amazing is how many ways in which Evangelicals twist their brains into pretzels to convince themselves that the things they are selfishly doing and hoping for is part of God's Plan, while at the same time preaching us that we are not ones to know how God works.
u/magavoices
Why you hollerin' at me? Relax. Dont be so angry. We're all on this same plot of dirt.
Lets just tend to our own little piece of this place and hopefully have a positive trickle down effect.
I'm not mad at anyone, nor their take on things, yet i loathe Masons.
That's about it.
Ah, I see. You are one of those who listens to a reasoned argument with sources and immediately feels like you are being attacked. Dont take it personally. If you are interested in continuing this discussion based on facts, I am all for it. If not, no harm done, have a blessed day.
Not the day or the hour, true, but I know someone that claims God told him the year
Again, what did Jesus say about knowing when the day will come?
Written around 600BC, interpreted hundreds of years later. The exact meaning of revelation is not clear.
Interpreted later? It was/is written as it is. Jesus Himself read from the book of Isaiah:
Luke 4:16-21 KJV
[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. [17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, [18] "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, [19] To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. " [20] And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. [21] And he began to say unto them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
Esaias = Isaiah
Isaiah 53:2-12 is easy to interpret:
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. [11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [12] Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Pray for discernment and wisdom when reading such texts, not on what some guy tells you it means or doesn't mean, although there are some good commentaries; some of the best were written in the 1700-1800s. 8 The Holy Spirit leads one into knowledge if one asks.
James 1:5-6, 8 KJV [5] If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6] But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. [8] A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Good luck, fren.
The pro Israel theology is newer than Mormonism and newer than Jehovah witness. This theology was printed in the Scofield Bible notes in 1909.
Many rumors say that Mr. Scofield was controlled by a Jewish Zionist.
Because of dating errors some now believe that Jesus was born in 4bc. He died and rose again when he was 30 at around 26ad. 2026 would be 2000 years since he rose from the dead.
In 2 Peter 3:8 It says Dearly beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord, as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
God created the earth 6000 years ago in 6 days. On the seventh day he rested. If the past 6000 years is the same as the 6 days of creation
are we about to enter the 1000 year day of rest?
The book Jeus Christ our passover by v.p. weirwille has it nailed pretty good at 3b.c. it explains very well how they got that timeframe.
For sure I don't know the exact date but within a couple of years we are at the 2000 year mark from the time that Jesus rose.
https://store.theway.org/store/jesus-christ-our-passover/
I thought it was when he was 33 or 34. Also 30AD would make more sense because punishment numbers seem to go by 40 and 40 years after the Jews crucified their own Messiah Jerusalem was sieged (70AD) which really does make sense. Before Christ's crucifixion the offerings they would do in Jerusalem were always accepted by God. After Christ's crucifixion the offerings were not accepted for 40 years straight & after that they were scattered.
Here is something to consider. You can look up the bible verses if you want but consider this. Old Testament:
Moses and the Law. When they went into the desert God was at the mountain. For three days anyone who when near the mountian was put to death. Moses went up the mountain and 50 days later he comes back with the 10 commandments. 3 thousand people were killed. 40 years later they entered the promised land.
New Testament parallel
Jesus died and was buried for three days. The temple curtain was torn from top to bottom. We can now approach God. 50 days later is the day of Pentecost. 3000 people were saved. 40 years later the temple was destroyed.
Hebrews 10:1 talks about the law being a shadow of things to come.
Wow that's amazing! Thank you for putting that together! I never compared the 50 days Moses went up the mountain to the Pentecost but yes, it does seems like a time period, like the time for God to come or something. Interesting...
If you want to take it one step further, look at Daniel 9 and his vision of the 70x7s, starting at verse 20. You should confirm this on your own, but the first 69 sevens (69 x 7 years) ended when Jesus was baptized. The church often teaches that a gap of over 2,000 years follows, waiting for the final seven. Consider this: Look at verse 27: "He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven." We've been told this refers to the Antichrist and the abomination he will set up. I don’t buy it. Instead, consider that this verse is talking about Jesus. His ministry lasted about 3.5 years. Then, He was "cut off." After that, the gospel was still preached only to the Jews. Then Peter had the vision of the sheet of unclean animals. From that vision, he understood that the gospel now went out to all people. This completed the 70x7s, which, according to Daniel 9:24, was only for Daniel’s people. Jesus died and rose, which, according to God’s plan, ended the need for sacrifices and offerings, yet the Jews continued to offer sacrifices. This was the abomination, and 40 years later, the people of the ruler to come destroyed the temple. If you visit BibleGateway, you can see an alternate translation for Daniel 9:27: "Or, ‘And one who causes desolation will come upon the wing of the abominable temple, until the end that is decreed is poured out on the desolated city.’" If the temple were rebuilt today, it would also be an abomination. It seems to me that some groups have twisted this scripture for political reasons. It’s better to figure this out for yourself—that’s the only way we truly learn.
I have taken a lot of heat for sharing this with others. That's fine with me. I realise that I cannot force someone to believe anything. I can just show you what I found. If you find holes in what I wrote here you are more than welcome to ask questions or challenge what I wrote. I am more than willing to seek and find the truth
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%209&version=NIV
Wouldnt summoning the messiah by completing the Third Temple just look like summoning the antichrist to Chritians?
it does and ppl have been talking about it for a while now.
Jews and Muslims both like to take it upon themselves to make their prophecies come true.
Actually I have heard it said that Muslims have a similar (yet opposite) end time prophecy. However, in there's the character which we call the anti-Christ is for them the great Messiah that they call Mahdi. They also have a return of Jesus but that seems to line up with who we would call the false prophet. etc Three are other parallel as well, of I heard. Pretty scary set up
Or did Rev 20 “Little Season” start 500 years ago?
One other meaningful item for the 3000 years is the displaying the ark of the covenant at Mar a Lago.
I remember that. Another thing that makes you go hmmmm.
yes! That reappeared at Mar a Lago after being lost for 3000 years. I can not even imagine what sort of business deal Trump pulled off for that amazing feat! Obviously someone didn't know what they had, or maybe it was some ancient back channel thief network that only wanted money for it. Who knows???
u/#pepedetective
500 yrs?
https://www.hrc.utexas.edu/gutenberg-bible/
Thank you. I saw that. A much bigger deal than people realize.
Indeed. Spiritual War.
Something ignored by 'indigenous people' is, they ALL migrated to North America from Mongolia and Spain. They OWN no claim to the USA.
There is some thought that under the new covenant, Christians are the chosen people. That is a wrench in the gears for some.
the way I understand it, Galatians 3 lays out how those in Christ are heirs to Abraham's blessing. Christ's death initiated the NEW covenant, but there was overlap.
At 70AD when the temple was destroyed during the siege of Jerusalem, the OLD covenant was ended. There is a book that talks about all kinds of crazy stuff that happened during that time, and some of the end times prophecies were fulfilled then, such as the mark of the beast and so on. I guess I'm a covenant theology guy.
Bottom line, there is no old covenant any more, it's all about Jesus, and I don't think there will be a specific anti-Christ person unless the Israelis make one themselves in order to take stuff over more than they already have.
There is Pretarism, and there is a theory that the 1000 year reign already happened, and other stuff too I suppose, based on how history is written by the victor so we can't be totally sure history is legit.
Thank you for sharing that info. On a related topic: there were quite a few people that thought that we might be in the end times. I think this is one of God’s course corrections.
Exactly! Even biologically. Consider this. There were undoubtedly a few Jews that doubled down on their mistake of crucifying their own Messiah over & over again but those were probably like the Hilary Clintons & George Soros' of their day. Many were of course touched by Christ & couldn't care less what the Jewish authorities said. Others maybe weren't lucky enough to have but, if so, it was probably because they were probably too busy with their lives & so they certainly didn't have the time to be in that crowd before Pilate either.
That crowd was probably just the temple authorities & their bootlickers. Over time more people would have gotten to hear the stories of Christ & been moved by them than those moved by the story the temple leaders would have spread about their description of Christ, right? What's more interesting, prophecies fulfilled & sins forgiven or the fact that the temple had someone executed for something or another? The story of Christ spread from person to person has a lot more 'click value' (to use todays terms) than whatever story the authorizes tried to sell. I mean just think of today with Trump. The more the official narrative attacks him to more people like him. Not to compare the two, of course, but there is something similar there.
So I would bet that between 30AD-70AD most Jews would have heard both stories. Some would have believed & others maybe weren't so sure but they would have heard. Then when Jerusalem was sieged in 70AD just as Christ predicted what do you think those that heard but didn't know what to believe would have thought?
I think most of those ancient Jews became Christians & as such they probably chose mates also in the Christian community & their decedents grew up in the Christian community & in enough generations would not even know they had a Jewish ancestor that was in contact with people who had met Christ. Where did those 1st Christians who were previously Jews go? They went all over the world, I would bet some would have had children with the natives & etc etc.
Do you get the point? By today, those Jews who became the 1st Christians are most likely an ancestor of two of many Christians all over the world of all nationalities.