Francis may be dead, but the message is still the same:
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I can tell ya HE AIN'T PETER EITHER ⚔️
He's not Steve either.
Technically he is a major Peter if you know what I mean.
😉
I’m 70, recovering Catholic, I knew about the Pope was just a name and title only, at the age of 20. Could never understand the people worshiping him, for what?
Because the Catholic church appeals to the human nature to think you need to work for your salvation, in combination with family tradition, and the idea that you can do whatever sin you want as long as you confess to a priest about it.
And Protestants believe that professing faith in Jesus cancels out their sins. How is that any different?
I am a Catholic, but haven't bothered with confession for decades. I confess to God and God alone. However, I've always wondered why Protestants knock confession when justification by faith accomplishes pretty much the same thing.
Because it is VERY clear that salvation comes from faith and not from works. Justification by faith must be a Catholic thing because I haven't heard it before, or read it in the Bible. Remember, the Catholic writings are all written by people centuries after Jesus walked the Earth. The single Bible verse used to justify the Catholic church is taken out of context; Peter was called the rock because of his faith, and on that faith the church is built.
yes, lots of drama with 'religion'! I think that's why President Trump is now a nondenominational Christian...
It's about what Jesus actually 'said', not all the 'rules'.
“I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he [Jesus] wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other.”[16]
Thomas Jefferson
Letter to Benjamin Rush
April 21, 1803
What he embraced was Jesus’ moral and ethical philosophy, a “rational creed . . . universal & eternal,” what he elsewhere terms “Christianism.”[17]"
https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/jeffersons-religious-beliefs/
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-40-02-0178-0001
We believe true faith produces good works as described in Corinthians. James 2:24 says “you see that a person is justified by works and not faith alone”. That’s why Martin Luther wanted to remove the book of James from the Bible. Pope Benedict actually said that Luther’s faith alone can be true if it is not opposed to faith in charity and love. Like St. Paul says in Gal 5:6 of faith that works through love. We simply don’t believe in a purely intellectual faith is what will get you salvation. We believe in a formed faith that includes charity, hope and love. Neither the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Decree on Justification or the Council of Trent says “justified by faith and works”. The Catholic Church only speaks of good works after initial justification.
What we reject is Protestants that believe you can have a little emotional moment in the 4th grade and be saved forever. An intellectual faith where you can do whatever sin you want and be saved by “faith alone”. Don’t need to go to church, receive communion etc. We believe faith is something that needs to be lived out through submission to God and to cooperate with God’s grace.
And in Catholicism confession is rooted in the apostolic tradition that granted by Jesus Christ. In John 20:21-23 Jesus grants the apostles the authority to forgive sins. And James 5:16 encourages us to confess sins to others for healing and a form of accountability.
Thank you for explaining this so well to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
As a Protestant to Catholic convert I have to deal with so many blatant Protestant lies that I got plenty of ammo in the arsenal. It’s incredibly frustrating cause most Protestants including the people on here have no actual idea what we believe.
When I decided to come back to Christ I spent two years really reading, watching documentaries, listening to podcasts and debates to decide what I was going to be. After listening to a Pints with Aquinas Podcast about the Eucharist I was convinced. Then after that I realized sola Scriptura and sola fide (as in how most Protestants practice it) makes no sense. The Church came before the Bible that’s just a historical fact.
So as a Protestant to Catholic convert you are having to explain this stuff so I have spent hours upon hours listening to guys like Pints with Aquinas, Jimmy Akin, Dr Taylor Marshall and Trent Horne.
And when you look at it objectively and with an open mind you come to the conclusion that to be Protestant you have to agree that either Jesus, the apostles and/or the early Church got it wrong one way or another and the Protestant argument just falls apart.
Which is why I just get downvoted or called names. Protestants on here don’t even try to debate me lol because like many god fearing Protestants including many former Pastors like Scott Hahn and Dr John Bergsma when you actually examine everything with an open mind you just realize Protestantism just isn’t true.
Catholics don't worship the Pope. We worship God The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
Don't you pray to your 'mother mary,' and other people that your pope has deemed to be 'saints?'
We protestants only pray to Jesus, and God. He, alone is worthy of praise.
That is one of the false perceptions non-Catholics have. And you are spreading disinformation.
We may ask Mary to pray for us. *We don't pray to her. * It's not any different than if you post on this platform asking people to pray for you if you have an illness or other need requiring prayer. *Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you? Are you praying TO those people. Do you WORSHIP them? *Of course not. You are asking for intercessory prayer.
This type of ignorance and refusal to understand the truth regarding Catholicism can be likened to calling President Trump a facist or nazi. It's flinging non-truths and it causes division.
"Saints" are all of the souls in Heaven. Popes canonize and elevate a soul to be known as a Saint after two thoroughly vetted, well documented miracles have occurred that can only be attributed to the intercession of a deceased holy person who has been asked to pray for a specific reason. Again, people don't pray to these deceased souls. They ask for intercessory prayer.
why would you confess your sins to a priest?
pretty sure that is not Biblical in any way. we are to confess our sins to God. not some priest.
and the 'services' are nothing more than pomp and circumstance. Chanting, repeating latin, maybe a Bible verse.
the 'pope' has no authority granted by the Bible.
Popes have no authority over God Almighty. canonize, elevate, vetted? hah!
Jesus made miracles, not MEN.
why would you ask Mary to pray for you? She is long gone. My strength is in God alone. God hears our prayers, and is the only one who provides answers and relief. the Holy Trinity is the only ones who hear and answer our prayers.
in the services i attend, our church hears the Word of God. Our pastor guides us through the Word. We go through several Old and New Testament verses, and he discusses the links between them, and how they apply to our current days.
i've known many catholics who wear a St (whatever) medallion, and pray on or to it. IDOL WORSHIP!!!
First, you should be wary about not respecting Mary. What do you think Jesus would think about someone who is not respectful of His mother?
Second, your ignorance about the Catholic faith is fully on display again as the Mass does include scripture readings from the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Gospel, and from Psalms. Not "maybe a Bible verse".
Perhaps you should pray about your hostility towards the Catholic church. It's certainly not Christian-like.
P.S. We confess our sins to God too. "Forgive me Father for I have sinned" is addressing God our Father.
first: you should reconsider that Mary is a vessel, that God used, to deliver the ONLY man that lived sinless, to DIE for our sins. NOT some priest, that is NECESSARY to confess my sins to. Don't give me that we ALSO confess to God. confessing to a priest is NON-Biblical NONSENSE. prove me wrong in the BIBLE.
i am not hostile to any Catholic. i am sympathetic. Jesus taught us to love our enemies. He said we should show them the Way, the Truth, and the Light. We should lead those who have run astray to the TRUE Savior, Jesus Christ! NOONE comes to the Father, except through the SON. Not ANY MAN! Your priest, and pope have NO authority over God.
just like am sympathetic to retarded people that listen to the TV like it is gospel.
I will pray for you. That you may let go of your hostilities and that the scales fall from your eyes. It's useless to continue this back and forth when none of what you say is accurate. It's like dealing with a 3rd grader who thinks they know it all. God bless you.
i'm not disrespectful towards your mother mary. i just don't pray to her.
Yes, mass does repeat scripture. what do you LEARN from your 'mass?' does your 'priest' expound upon these sparse scriptures that are mentioned in your mass? no.
i am not hostile towards the catholic church.
"we confess our sins to God, too." Really?????? where is the Biblical basis in ANYTHING you have repllied???
my fa
https://patriots.win/p/1ARK54Rwvs/
The Catholic sacraments were developed as a way to gatekeep salvation and maintain power
You have literally no idea what you are talking about. They are rooted in apostolic tradition and are backed by scripture.
The Protestant reformation lead to liberal secularism which led to the decline of the west.
And to be Protestant is to say the apostles got it wrong and that after they passed Jesus’s promise that I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it collapsed. So basically you are saying Jesus did not keep his promise.
You don’t have the complete Bible as Martin Luther compiled the Bible in accordance to Jews by removing books from the Old Testament and Martin Luther was close to removing James because it didn’t fit his Sola Fide narrative.
Nope the Protestants removed them. The deuterocanocial books accepted by the Catholic Church, Orthodox Church and the Coptic Church. Even the earliest translations of the King James Bible had them.
And the justification of these books go back to the early church “The teachers of Judaism refuse to admit that the Septuagint is correct. They attempt to frame another translation of the Scriptures. Observe that they have taken away many Old Testament Scriptures, by which proof of Christ’s crucifixion is set forth”- St. Justin the Martyr 150 AD. The Apostoles when they were preaching the Old Testament used the Spetuagint version which includes the deuterocanonical books.
One of the earliest Christian documents the Diadache sites Sirach 4:31 as scripture.
Saint Polycarp in 135 AD cites Tobit 4:10 and Tobit 12:9 in an epistle to Philippi.
Saint Augustine in 397 AD included 1 and 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon and Ecclesiasticus as canon.
So once again as a Protestant you have to say the apostles and the early Church were wrong if you believe they should have been removed.
Interesting. Why do you believe that the Catholic Church has it right and not Coptic Orthodoxy or Eastern Orthodoxy, which includes more books than Catholic Canon?
You're too hung up on church authority and can't see the forest through the trees.
The Catholic church is the people. Without the people, the pope is just a man in funny robes.
I don't need the pope to tell me how to behave. All of the "rules" were clearly outlined in my Baltimore Catechism when I was a little girl. If you follow the rules -- it's really difficult to get yourself into any civil or spiritual trouble. They are that precise.
You'll find that most Catholics do not hang on the word of the pope or the parish priest. Be serious. This isn't medieval times and people are educated. But you don't blame God for the actions of men. And you don't run off and start your own church. You do the best you can within the framework.
Sorry for my ignorance, but doesn't the Catholic Church believe that the Pope's teachings are the final word in matters of faith and morals under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
Only if he speaks ex cathedra which, happens almost never. The last time was in November of 1950.
Everything else he says is really just his opinion and can be ignored.
Hmm interesting. I'm in the rabbit hole of research now. Thanks!
Pups and Catholic priests don't even meet the basic biblical requirements to be a pastor or an elder that are laid out in scripture either.
You must be a married man with obedient children according to the Bible.
u/#q1002
He is to a whole lot of catholic sheeple though.
lol you have people worshipping the “non binary God” and worshipping 1948 Israel. The Protestant Reformation lead to secular liberalism which lead to secularism which lead to the downfall of the west cause you all can’t agree on anything.
I totally agree.
NOT closer to God than you.
NOT favored or loved by God more than you.
He's just a man...in a costume... playing a role.
YOU are the one giving him ANY perceived power, higher station or importance.
Whether you were taught to believe he's holier than thou or you just picked it up along with rituals and dogma.
The reality is... he's just another asshole.
I think a Catholic response to this might be:
Firstly Catholics don't believe mostly the latter half of these (that the pope is God, A Savior, Sinless, or to be Worshipped). God (the Trinity) is God and Sinless; Jesus is the Savior. The word "worship" is sometimes used maybe "liberally", as bodies are "temples of the Holy Ghost", hence the saints (those who are dead and considered saved or to be in heaven eternally) are holy and are thus "venerated" (Catholic encyclopedia on "Dulia" - https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05188b.htm and on "Worship" - https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15710a.htm)
Catholics do believe this. Protestants have criticized this as contradicting Matthew 23:9, "And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven." Haydock (Catholic commentator) says this about the passage:
I suspect that priests being called "Father" is based in history, AI says (cross-check):
Catholics believe this. I think popes are bishops hence being a clergyman is a kind of "holy" vocation. Individual popes by their actions may defile the holiness of their station though, although that's a different thing.
I think Catholics believe specific ex Cathedra statements made by popes are infallible (not that many), but infallibility also exists in other areas: Catholic encylopedia entry on "Infallibility" - https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
Interestingly enough in a discussion with a protestant recently I realized that they believe that the writers of Scripture were basically infallible, like Catholics believe some writing of popes are. Then I thought that orthodox additionally seem to think the councils up to the Great Schism at least were "infallible", maybe.
via OrthodoxWiki:
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Ecumenical_Councils
So, to me this frames things a bit differently, that each group believes in "infallibility", but just applies it to different things: protestants are "theological minimalists" of sorts that believe that only the Scripture and writers of Scripture (guided by God) are / were infallible; the orthodox take this a step further to thinking the ecumenical councils are / were infallible; Catholics take this an additional step as considering certain statements of popes (and perhaps some other actions maybe of bishops) as infallible.
I think Catholics believe this although the words are a bit vague; for me it makes sense that Christ would have a singular leader of the Church, like any other institution, like businesses that have CEOs or the USA which has the POTUS / Trump, which orthodox and protestants do not have.
(Although this is interesting in the present situation as it seems this leadership has been attacked for decades with the Vatican 2 movement which appears to be schismatic / heretical in some sense yet seems to appear to the world to be what Catholicism is thought to be)
You definitely have provided some insight on how Catholics justify the Papacy and the doctrines thereof, including attempting to make scripture appear to support traditions that it contextually doesn't.
AMEN
So, who selects these popes, the Payseur dynasty?
3 Jews, a bunch of didlers and a guy named Mohammed? At this point I wouldn't be surprised.
You opened a can of worms with this friend. Getting a catholic to see the Truth of their religion is as bad as trying to convert a mooslim.
u/#howl
Your link doesn't seem to be working.
"Your link doesn't seem to be working."
...you talkin' to me...
...if so, how so...
...Patriot is looking keen on my end...
I would like to post to your page as you have suggested to me earlier, but I do not know how to do that. Visited your page and could not find any options that would enable me to do that.
"could not find any options that would enable me to do that."
...check your messages...
Yep.
Now do Mary, St. Anthony, rosary beads, St. Jude, St. Christopher, etc, etc, etc.
The pope was supposed to br to catholics what supteme court justices are supposed to be to constitutional law
But he's not.
I never understood the people who always want to kiss the Pope's hand.
Amen
Did the Pope die?
Francis did, but the Papal office itself did not.
"Pope" Francis died this year and was replaced with "Leo XIV"
Who's that guy with Dave?