The thing I don't understand about AI Data Centers is that technology changes so quickly, and computer storage / processing improves so rapidly, that a "center" can become very quickly outdated.
Case in point: In early 1990's, computer servers would take up entire floors of a building, they were each the size of large refrigerators and had tremendous heat loads. By 2003-2004, all of those large servers were replaced by desktop models. In the space of just ONE computer server from 10-years earlier... you could now place 10 servers, each being twice as powerful as the ones they replaced and the heat load was greatly reduced.
By 2010, you had 250 gb and 500 gb thumb drives and buying 1 TB free standing hard drives was as easy as going to a store.
By 2020, I could buy a portable 5 TB hard drive for $250 that could store the entire library of congress. Computer servers stayed about the same size as before, but now can handle 10 X more than they could in 2010, and 100 X more than they handled in 1990's.
By 2026, I can easily buy a 10 TB, 16 TB or even a 22 TB portable hard drive for the same price as that 5 TB drive in 2020 cost. I can even buy a 128 TB hard drive, which could probably store every song from every artist recorded since America was founded. It could probably store more information than the NY Library contains.
The point is... we build huge data centers with massive cooling capacity and all of this huge expensive computing equipment to power the AI system... and in 10 years... it can all be replaced by one large AI computer the size of a volvo that can be cooled by a window air conditioner, and yet can accomplish 10 X as much work as the system built in 2026 did. What can you do with the rest of the building... and all that wiring and cooling capacity?
Is it possible that we are building what will, 10-years from now, be outdated white elephant buildings that need to be renovated or demolished? It seems everyone is so eager to build, build, build... but we know how fast computer systems and technology becomes obsolete. 5-years from now, you either replace all the equipment with newer, smaller and faster computers... or else become outdated.
Agreed with everything you said...It seems to me, that this is a race to make sure the good guys get there first..and have all the precious metals in place to make it stick. Just my opinion...I could be wrong?
We all discuss the downside of AI (which obviously in the wrong hands would be justified) Think Fear...Think Psyop...IF you like what "DOGE" has done..!!Tadaahh!! The Upside is...IT can be used to Uncover ALL the Cabal Spider webs. It can shed light, and truth on the darkest corners. Could we end up with Skynet...it was more of a possibility before DJT / Q. Could it be used to make life more even? Folks, we have been lied to..our whole lives. We do not know..what we think we know AND we certainly don't know..what we do not know. The man said "The best is yet to come". Let's take him at his word.
When you find yourself going through hell and everyone you meet has given up , except the one dude that says follow me I have a way out... What do we have to loose ? "Let's take him at his word."
Well, if we hadn't done the old servers we wouldn't have gotten to the new ones. What are we supposed to do? Stop and not get there? It's kind of like guns. We can't put the genie back in the bottle so we better keep making them.
I remember in early 1990's, a 333 Mhz Pentium-3 desktop computer with a 20 GB hard drive and a CD Rom that plugs into a phone modem and running Windows 95 would cost around $800 to $1,000 or so.
By the year 2000, you could buy a 1.8 Ghz desktop computer with a 4 GB RAM and 128 GB hard drive that would cost about the same $$$.
Just 26 years later, you can buy a laptop coputer with touch screen, 32 GB RAM, 2 TB harddrive, 5 Ghz processor for about the same $$$.
My point is that it's NOT just the computer equipment. That's a fraction of the cost. The rest is the entire buildings that are being built, the huge investment in infrastructure... that in 10-20 years will look as silly as those old mobile phones from the 1980's that were the size of a suitcase or that looked like large military walkie-talkies. It will be as worthless as having invested in phone booths... or having spent all your money on an extremely expensive VCR.
In the late 1990's, a really good top-end VCR could cost $800-$1000. A really good projection TV was the size of a small car, had a bad picture and cost $2,000.
These days, you couldn't give either one away for free if you placed it at the curb with a sign on it.
That's my point about the buildings. In 10-20 years, the investment will look strange. A huge building with 400 tons of AC capacity sitting there... and only one room will be needed, with 2 desks and a couple of IT people working there.... and it will have the same capability then as the $200 Million AI Data Centers that we are spending money on today.
I get that. I'm old enough to remember the same. But my point was is what are we going to do? Wait for China or Japan to beat us there? We won't get a 2nd chance to beat them. It's a stepping stone that unfortunately has to happen.
With quantum computing shit, you'd need way different infrastructure and buildings.
Imo all this data center bullshit is just the future digital prison we will all live under.
It's the WEFs wet dream, watching us 24/7, calculating our carbon footprint bullshit, giving us our once every five years vacation to a neighboring state... Shit like that.
This data center insanity is not natural demand. It's the deep state building up the prisons.
The reality is that yes, hardware improvements can increase computations at an exponential rate. However, humanity is rarely ever satisfied. The data centers we had in the 90s could be powered by a single rack, but our demand in 2026 still requires massive data centers. As hardware improves, demand for resources increase. New technology emerges, which requires higher powered hardware. It's an endless loop.
The fact that just one data center will consume more power and water than an entire populated area of humans while ALSO increasing the prices of those two resources for The People to then have to pay for is NOT propaganda.
That immutable fact....... I'm sick of people glossing over that. Maybe towns don't want 65 sq mi cinder-block buildings consuming their land and resources. They will just be giant square blocks in your town.
The propaganda is actually coming from people who act like we are just propagandists. It's gaslight like a MF. I hate gaslighting, I consider it worse than murder.
Crazy thing is, if Sam Altman, Oracle, Anthropic, etc, are at the helm of our development, then I'm not exactly rooting for the 'Americans' anyway. If the Chinese want to give us powerful openSource models that kill the tech Bro plan to nerf our future AI experiences, then I hope the 'Americans' lose.
The tech bros are not any better friends than the Chi-Chi's. They mean us no LESS harm.
"Whoever controls AI, will control the (future/direction of) the world." Accordingly I'd still rather take my chances with the non-CCP because we still have a chance with them, whereas the CCP actually has an agenda/plan to eliminate most and totally enslave the rest in a post-apocalyptic hellscape.
In the SpaceX IPO Elon mentioned data centers in space which would use the sun to power the data center and I guess heat wouldn't be an issue in space. However, I'm wondering how much they'd have to pay the people maintaining the data centers in space. While you can envision all the software upgrades/fixes could be done from earth, I'm guessing it's unlikely robotics could do all the hardware maintenance.
Elon made a comment not too long ago..that at some point " Money will be irrelevant"...Not sure what the future has in store for us...May not be anything like we are used to??
Or, there truly will be a "golden age" that will be unlike anything we've heretofore seen or known.
(TPTB have kept humanity repressed for centuries in order to keep themselves in $, power and control. Seems possible they'd say and do anything and everything to retain that $, power and control, and to prevent "the minions" from "getting out from under" and ascending/"living the good life".)
I still don't know what daily activity occurs at a "data center", or who the end user is, or who the paying client will be, or what that paying customer will pay for.
prediction the us government has had working safe AI model of a quality not seen . this AI has been around since the 1990s the private start ups. and the government offering AI to the public ends the race and kills potential dangerous AI by slowing down the race
At the moment the industry is a giant bubble. Subscriptions are going to pay for all the money they borrowed, for what ? Not going to happen. They are amidst robbing you, putting the boot on your throat, gutting you, starving you because they damn sure don't need or want you around. Subscribe to who , to do what and then all your unemployed are toast. Add them to your 100 million freeloaders living on your make believe financial pump and dump Las Vegas Fiat Fraudscape Economy. Yikes.
The thing I don't understand about AI Data Centers is that technology changes so quickly, and computer storage / processing improves so rapidly, that a "center" can become very quickly outdated.
Case in point: In early 1990's, computer servers would take up entire floors of a building, they were each the size of large refrigerators and had tremendous heat loads. By 2003-2004, all of those large servers were replaced by desktop models. In the space of just ONE computer server from 10-years earlier... you could now place 10 servers, each being twice as powerful as the ones they replaced and the heat load was greatly reduced.
By 2010, you had 250 gb and 500 gb thumb drives and buying 1 TB free standing hard drives was as easy as going to a store.
By 2020, I could buy a portable 5 TB hard drive for $250 that could store the entire library of congress. Computer servers stayed about the same size as before, but now can handle 10 X more than they could in 2010, and 100 X more than they handled in 1990's.
By 2026, I can easily buy a 10 TB, 16 TB or even a 22 TB portable hard drive for the same price as that 5 TB drive in 2020 cost. I can even buy a 128 TB hard drive, which could probably store every song from every artist recorded since America was founded. It could probably store more information than the NY Library contains.
The point is... we build huge data centers with massive cooling capacity and all of this huge expensive computing equipment to power the AI system... and in 10 years... it can all be replaced by one large AI computer the size of a volvo that can be cooled by a window air conditioner, and yet can accomplish 10 X as much work as the system built in 2026 did. What can you do with the rest of the building... and all that wiring and cooling capacity?
Is it possible that we are building what will, 10-years from now, be outdated white elephant buildings that need to be renovated or demolished? It seems everyone is so eager to build, build, build... but we know how fast computer systems and technology becomes obsolete. 5-years from now, you either replace all the equipment with newer, smaller and faster computers... or else become outdated.
Agreed with everything you said...It seems to me, that this is a race to make sure the good guys get there first..and have all the precious metals in place to make it stick. Just my opinion...I could be wrong?
Probably so. My only fear (as unwarranted as it may be) is choosing between 1984 or Brave New World.
Could the talk-talk of AI centers be about the narrative directed at China and our stock market while less about about real world need/development ?
A ballon server Army as it were ?
We all discuss the downside of AI (which obviously in the wrong hands would be justified) Think Fear...Think Psyop...IF you like what "DOGE" has done..!!Tadaahh!! The Upside is...IT can be used to Uncover ALL the Cabal Spider webs. It can shed light, and truth on the darkest corners. Could we end up with Skynet...it was more of a possibility before DJT / Q. Could it be used to make life more even? Folks, we have been lied to..our whole lives. We do not know..what we think we know AND we certainly don't know..what we do not know. The man said "The best is yet to come". Let's take him at his word.
When you find yourself going through hell and everyone you meet has given up , except the one dude that says follow me I have a way out... What do we have to loose ? "Let's take him at his word."
Agreed!
Well, if we hadn't done the old servers we wouldn't have gotten to the new ones. What are we supposed to do? Stop and not get there? It's kind of like guns. We can't put the genie back in the bottle so we better keep making them.
I get your points though.
I remember in early 1990's, a 333 Mhz Pentium-3 desktop computer with a 20 GB hard drive and a CD Rom that plugs into a phone modem and running Windows 95 would cost around $800 to $1,000 or so.
By the year 2000, you could buy a 1.8 Ghz desktop computer with a 4 GB RAM and 128 GB hard drive that would cost about the same $$$.
Just 26 years later, you can buy a laptop coputer with touch screen, 32 GB RAM, 2 TB harddrive, 5 Ghz processor for about the same $$$.
My point is that it's NOT just the computer equipment. That's a fraction of the cost. The rest is the entire buildings that are being built, the huge investment in infrastructure... that in 10-20 years will look as silly as those old mobile phones from the 1980's that were the size of a suitcase or that looked like large military walkie-talkies. It will be as worthless as having invested in phone booths... or having spent all your money on an extremely expensive VCR.
In the late 1990's, a really good top-end VCR could cost $800-$1000. A really good projection TV was the size of a small car, had a bad picture and cost $2,000.
These days, you couldn't give either one away for free if you placed it at the curb with a sign on it.
That's my point about the buildings. In 10-20 years, the investment will look strange. A huge building with 400 tons of AC capacity sitting there... and only one room will be needed, with 2 desks and a couple of IT people working there.... and it will have the same capability then as the $200 Million AI Data Centers that we are spending money on today.
I get that. I'm old enough to remember the same. But my point was is what are we going to do? Wait for China or Japan to beat us there? We won't get a 2nd chance to beat them. It's a stepping stone that unfortunately has to happen.
If the software for ai scales up to use increased computing hardware, the physical infrastructure could still be used, no?
They could probably retrofit racks etc and reuse the same cooling measures. That said, they probably won't.
That's if you stick with the same technology.
With quantum computing shit, you'd need way different infrastructure and buildings.
Imo all this data center bullshit is just the future digital prison we will all live under.
It's the WEFs wet dream, watching us 24/7, calculating our carbon footprint bullshit, giving us our once every five years vacation to a neighboring state... Shit like that.
This data center insanity is not natural demand. It's the deep state building up the prisons.
Exactly. That's why they are trying to shove as many in as they can before the AI train runs off the track and their cover story is gone.
The reality is that yes, hardware improvements can increase computations at an exponential rate. However, humanity is rarely ever satisfied. The data centers we had in the 90s could be powered by a single rack, but our demand in 2026 still requires massive data centers. As hardware improves, demand for resources increase. New technology emerges, which requires higher powered hardware. It's an endless loop.
This is the correct answer. Demand will continue as technology advances.
Data centers are about power, air conditioning, security and communication
The stuff in the racks gets changed out as technology moves but those things are pretty stable
We shipped all of our jobs and tech to china
This is part of us bringing them back
They will over build and there will be a big dot com bubble just like airlines but the capacity will be used and here instead of china
moore's law is temporary
The fact that just one data center will consume more power and water than an entire populated area of humans while ALSO increasing the prices of those two resources for The People to then have to pay for is NOT propaganda.
That immutable fact....... I'm sick of people glossing over that. Maybe towns don't want 65 sq mi cinder-block buildings consuming their land and resources. They will just be giant square blocks in your town.
The propaganda is actually coming from people who act like we are just propagandists. It's gaslight like a MF. I hate gaslighting, I consider it worse than murder.
Crazy thing is, if Sam Altman, Oracle, Anthropic, etc, are at the helm of our development, then I'm not exactly rooting for the 'Americans' anyway. If the Chinese want to give us powerful openSource models that kill the tech Bro plan to nerf our future AI experiences, then I hope the 'Americans' lose.
The tech bros are not any better friends than the Chi-Chi's. They mean us no LESS harm.
"Whoever controls AI, will control the (future/direction of) the world." Accordingly I'd still rather take my chances with the non-CCP because we still have a chance with them, whereas the CCP actually has an agenda/plan to eliminate most and totally enslave the rest in a post-apocalyptic hellscape.
Isn't the water "usage" gonna be for cooling? Since water is infinitely recyclable; expand on an AI centers water "usage."
In the SpaceX IPO Elon mentioned data centers in space which would use the sun to power the data center and I guess heat wouldn't be an issue in space. However, I'm wondering how much they'd have to pay the people maintaining the data centers in space. While you can envision all the software upgrades/fixes could be done from earth, I'm guessing it's unlikely robotics could do all the hardware maintenance.
Is the water consumed or just used and returned?
Yep
Elon made a comment not too long ago..that at some point " Money will be irrelevant"...Not sure what the future has in store for us...May not be anything like we are used to??
"YOU VILL OWN NAWSSING, ZOO VILL EAT ZE BUGS AND RENT ZEE TOOTHBRUSH!!!" -Unkkkle Klaus
Or, there truly will be a "golden age" that will be unlike anything we've heretofore seen or known.
(TPTB have kept humanity repressed for centuries in order to keep themselves in $, power and control. Seems possible they'd say and do anything and everything to retain that $, power and control, and to prevent "the minions" from "getting out from under" and ascending/"living the good life".)
Think along the lines of Trump getting 10% of the major players for the Sovereign Wealth Fund.
https://x.com/Juliedonuts/status/2064739953737666665?s=20
I still don't know what daily activity occurs at a "data center", or who the end user is, or who the paying client will be, or what that paying customer will pay for.
prediction the us government has had working safe AI model of a quality not seen . this AI has been around since the 1990s the private start ups. and the government offering AI to the public ends the race and kills potential dangerous AI by slowing down the race
At the moment the industry is a giant bubble. Subscriptions are going to pay for all the money they borrowed, for what ? Not going to happen. They are amidst robbing you, putting the boot on your throat, gutting you, starving you because they damn sure don't need or want you around. Subscribe to who , to do what and then all your unemployed are toast. Add them to your 100 million freeloaders living on your make believe financial pump and dump Las Vegas Fiat Fraudscape Economy. Yikes.
Never underestimate Congress' ability to spend any money it discovers.
Quantum computing will change everything!!!