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Firepit 1 point ago +1 / -0

I already told you.

The Jesuit reductions, established in the 17th and 18th centuries primarily among the Guaraní in Paraguay, Argentina, Brazil, and Bolivia, were mission settlements organized by the Jesuit order to evangelize, educate, and protect indigenous peoples from colonial exploitation, like enslavement by Spanish and Portuguese settlers. Some historians and critics have labeled them as “communistic” or “socialist utopias” due to their communal economic practices, but this characterization oversimplifies their structure and ignores key distinctions from modern communism. Here’s why the reductions were not communist, addressing their economic, social, and ideological features:

  1. Economic Structure: Communal but Not Collectivist in the Marxist Sense • Communal Property: The reductions had shared resources, like common fields (tupambae) and livestock herds, with yields used for the poor, sick, or emergencies. Goods like yerba maté were traded for European tools, benefiting the community. However, individuals also had private plots (abamba) whose produce was theirs to keep or barter, unlike communism’s abolition of private property. • Not State-Controlled: Communism, as defined by Marx, involves state ownership of production means. In the reductions, Jesuits and indigenous leaders (caciques) managed resources, but this was a theocratic and paternalistic system, not a proletarian state. The economy aimed at self-sufficiency and protection, not class struggle or wealth redistribution. • Profit Motive Absent: While reductions were economically successful, generating surpluses through yerba maté and cattle, the goal was community welfare and mission sustainability, not capital accumulation or exploitation, which contrasts with both capitalism and communism’s focus on systemic economic transformation.
  2. Social Organization: Theocratic, Not Egalitarian • Hierarchical Governance: The reductions were ruled by Jesuit priests and indigenous chiefs acting as governors, with a clear top-down structure. Exemptions from labor for caciques, magistrates, and artisans show inequality, unlike communism’s aim for a classless society. • Religious Core: The reductions were explicitly Christian, aiming to convert and “civilize” the Guaraní by imposing European values and Catholic rituals. Communism, rooted in atheism and materialism, rejects religious frameworks, whereas the reductions were theocratic, with Jesuits reporting to Rome, not a secular authority. • Voluntary Participation (to an Extent): Guaraní joined reductions often for protection from slavers or material benefits (e.g., iron tools, safety), not ideological commitment. While some relocation was coerced, it wasn’t forced collectivization akin to communist regimes. Many Guaraní outside missions lived traditionally, showing choice absent in strict communist systems.
  3. Ideological Differences: Salvation vs. Revolution • No Class Struggle: Communism hinges on overthrowing the bourgeoisie to empower the proletariat. The reductions had no such agenda; they shielded Guaraní from colonial encomiendas (forced labor systems) but didn’t seek to dismantle Spanish rule. Jesuits even secured royal permission for militias to fight slavers, aligning with the crown. • Theological Motivation: The Jesuits’ goal was spiritual—saving souls through Christianity—not economic or political revolution. Their “communism,” as some call it, was closer to monastic sharing (like early Christian koinonia in Acts 4:32–35), rooted in charity, not Marxist dialectics. • Historical Context: Communism emerged in the 19th century with Marx and Engels, long after the reductions (1609–1767). Labeling them communist is anachronistic, as they predate the ideology’s framework. Critics like Montesquieu praised them as “noble savage” communities, but even Rousseau, no Catholic ally, didn’t equate them to modern collectivism.
  4. Key Distinctions from Communism • Private Property: Unlike communism, which eliminates private ownership, Guaraní had personal plots and bartered goods, reflecting individual agency within a communal framework. • No Atheism or Materialism: Communism’s rejection of religion clashes with the reductions’ Catholic foundation, where faith drove all activities, from work to governance. • No Revolutionary Intent: The reductions aimed to preserve order, not upend it. Jesuits clashed with settlers over labor but worked within colonial structures, even paying tribute to the Spanish crown (1 peso/year for men 18–50). • Cultural Imposition: While protecting Guaraní from slavery, Jesuits imposed European norms, sometimes disrupting traditional practices (e.g., suppressing shamans). This paternalism differs from communism’s focus on empowering the oppressed through their own agency.
  5. Why the Communist Label Persists • Romanticized Views: Enlightenment thinkers like Montesquieu and later depictions (e.g., the 1986 film The Mission) portrayed reductions as utopian, fueling “Christian communist” or “socialist” labels. These ignore the coercive aspects and religious control. • Shared Resources: The communal fields and storehouses resemble early Christian or monastic sharing, which some equate to communism’s collectivism. However, this was practical for survival, not ideological. • Critics’ Bias: Some sources, like R.W. Thompson’s 1894 book, call reductions communist to critique Jesuit influence, projecting 19th-century fears onto a pre-Marxist system. Others, like X posts, exaggerate to tie Jesuits to modern conspiracies, but these lack historical grounding.
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Firepit 1 point ago +1 / -0

That you didn’t provide any proof Jesuits created communism?

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Firepit 1 point ago +1 / -0
  1. 1848: Communism emerges as a modern ideology with Marx and Engels’ The Communist Manifesto.
  2. 1849: The Catholic Church takes its first clear anti-communist stance in Pope Pius IX’s encyclical Nostis et Nobiscum. Summary: Communism was formalized in 1848, and just one year later, in 1849, the Catholic Church responded with its initial opposition, criticizing communism’s anti-religious and socially disruptive ideas. As of April 11, 2025, these events occurred 177 sand 176 years ago, respectively.
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Firepit 2 points ago +2 / -0

The Catholic church they called ROME was not finally destroyed. That’s not an opinion.

The décade was a direct jab at the Catholic order. Introduced with the Republican Calendar, it replaced the seven-day week with a 10-day cycle, scrapping Sunday’s religious significance. Each month had three décades, and days were named numerically (primidi, duodi, up to décadi) instead of carrying Christian or pagan associations. The rest day, décadi, was meant for civic festivals celebrating republican virtues, not Mass or prayer. This wasn’t just a tweak to the schedule—it was a bold attempt to secularize time itself, stripping the Church of its authority over daily life.

You are ignorant.

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Firepit 1 point ago +1 / -0

The Decree Against Communism was a 1949 Catholic Church document issued by the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, and approved by Pope Pius XII, which declared Catholics who professed atheistic communist doctrine to be excommunicated as apostates from the Christian faith.

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Firepit 1 point ago +1 / -0

Catholicism is vehemently anti Communist. You gave zero primary sources proving Marx was funded by the priestly order called Jesuits.

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Firepit 1 point ago +1 / -0

“Rome therefore will finally be destroyed”

So much for that. It’s the Church Jesus established and he promised the gates of hell would not prevail. Rome is going nowhere.

France breaking away from Catholicism earned them a bloody revolution and 10 day work week.

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Firepit 1 point ago +1 / -0

Significant differences challenge the idea that this was “perfected communism.” The reductions were not driven by a secular ideology of class struggle or economic equality, as modern communism is, but by a religious mission to convert and “civilize” the Guaraní within a colonial context. The Jesuits maintained strict hierarchical control, and the system depended on their authority rather than egalitarian self-governance. Moreover, the reductions were not a prototype for Marxist communism—Karl Marx’s ideas emerged much later, in the 19th century, influenced by European industrial conditions and philosophical traditions, not Jesuit experiments in South America.

The claim may also originate from fringe theories suggesting Jesuits directly inspired modern communism, sometimes tied to conspiracy narratives about their influence on figures like Marx. No credible historical evidence supports this; Marx’s intellectual roots are well-documented in German philosophy, British economics, and French socialism, not Jesuit writings from Paraguay.

Historically, the reductions achieved remarkable economic success and protected the Guaraní from enslavement by Spanish and Portuguese colonists, peaking with a population of over 140,000 across 30 missions by 1732. Yet, they ended abruptly in 1767 when the Jesuits were expelled from Spanish territories, and the communities largely dissolved, suggesting the system’s reliance on Jesuit oversight rather than an inherent, replicable model.

In short, while the Jesuit reductions shared some features with communal living—collective labor, shared resources—they were a unique product of their religious and colonial context, not a perfected form of communism. The assertion oversimplifies both the reductions and communism, conflating a 17th-century missionary project with a 19th-century political ideology. Historians generally view the comparison as an anachronistic stretch rather than a substantiated fact.

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Firepit 10 points ago +10 / -0

Just had our seventh a few months ago. Zero family help though. It’s hard. They have better family support.

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Firepit 2 points ago +2 / -0

SS uses email to notify people about increases? Seems like something you’d be notified of via letter.

If true, that’s wonderful and I hope she can rest a little easier!

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Firepit 3 points ago +3 / -0

I have read that the body identifies lead much like calcium and stores it away in the bones only to have it leech out when the woman’s body is growing a baby or breast-feeding. Have you heard of anything like this? Did you find out where the lead came from?

Ferritin is sort of like the storage of iron. Your blood levels of hemoglobin and iron can look good but your ferritin can be low, causing all kinds of issues. It’s a very easy test to get. However, it’s not part of a regular CBC. I’ve always had to ask for it to be added on to my blood panel or onto my children’s blood panel, but it’s always been approved.

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Firepit 2 points ago +2 / -0

Have you ever had her ferritin levels tested?

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