Never mind that I'm an antitheist but with a particular demographic any mention of 'Gods will' or any such will instantly loose you any argument.......
May not be too popular a thing to say with many here but it is very much true so it bears mentioning as it is sorta in the same vein as Trump never using 'politician speak' or big words, the whole point of communicating is to get the point across and anything that gets in the way of that just means that you have failed at communicating that point.....
I do not agree with you. The other person walking away doesn't mean I lost the argument.
I dont need to see an immediate turn around in the other person's thinking. Planting a seed is a win.
In my opinion their lack of faith is far more desperate of a situation then what is happening in this country. I think the lack of faith is a contributing factor to what is happening in our country.
The problem is that you think witnessing to people is an argument.
Jesus stopped arguing at the age of 12 after he tried it with the pharisees in the temple. Once he started his ministry at age 30, he never brought anyone to God by arguing with them.
He didnt argue.
1 He told stories to the masses.
2 He questioned the authorities.
Think and pray on those two simple truths for the rest of your mortal life. You'll save more sinners.
Actually, I was replying to this statement
"any mention of 'Gods will' or any such will instantly loose you any argument"
I dont think it is a loss.
IC
Inter conversation between Jesus and Nicodemas for starters, then try saying what you just said. Atleast 4 examples come to mind that seem to blatantly disagree with Jesus not arguing/debating with religious leaders John 3, 6, 8.
Why did you feel the need to add /debating to your statement?
Anything that people feel is forced upon them gets resented and resisted so using more of the very things they will resent and resist to argue in favor of the very thing they will resent and resists......
You just illustrated the very reason I made this post for.
When the left tries to bolster their argument by simply repeating it more LOUDLY, does that make you listen more, or less.....
I hope that one day you do find yourself running towards God. When that day comes, I pray that you think back to this post and reflect on why I might have been standing firm in my conviction that God is not the problem here. God is the answer.
“And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”” Joshua 24:15 NKJV
I agree with AZTrumpette1776. It's not a loss if you walk away. A seed has been planted. Whether that seed fell on rock or good soil is yet to be seen, but it was put in place. In time it may take root.
Consider that what you are telling people, saying not to mention God when speaking with others, is a way of 'forcing upon' believers. They don't like that any more than unbelievers. We are all who and what we are. We can only operate within that context. Asking a true believer to quell their belief so that someone else is comfy cozy is akin to telling a man or woman not to be a man or woman.
Besides that, many of us know the power of God's word and discussion of God. It only agitates those who are under the influence of the devil, and that is one sign of success. Someone getting agitated at the mere mention of God.
I understand you identify as an atheist. Most everybody does at one point or another, even many of those who are Christians today. But then something happens, they have an experience that changes their life. You too can have that, if you want it. It's waiting on you, you just have to avail yourself of the gift. Said sincerely, with all humility and sincerity, a little prayer like this will give you the answers you crave.
"God, I don't even believe you exist. It seems to be that you are just the figment of some very fertile imaginations. But just in case I'm wrong, and just in case you actually do exist, I'd like to know. Because I like truth, so I'd like to know the truth. So if you actually do exist, please reveal Yourself to me."
God - the ultimate red pill.
Good luck to them if that what they want to think, if the words God and Jesus Christ embarrass or switch them off that is their problem.
They are a dying breed anyway, more and more people are turning to God each day, they are just dinosaurs.
That's funny I feel the same about atheists.
Yes, I'm sure you are right.
In my experience, Most athiests regards belief in God as irrational and any mention of God will invalidate anything else you have to say about anything, no matter the logic of it,
Not really about the view of belief in deities being irrational as much as it just instantly classifies anything that person says as 'rhetoric' and groups them with everything else they have experienced in that category.
Human psychology and brain function makes classifying things by grouping based on similarity the common reality and anything that is similar enough will be grouped with the rest, this holds true across the board with all people when it comes to everything, so it is basically the brain function equivalent of adding keywords that will lump it in with things that are of no interest and excluded from what is considered relevant information.
It's a habituated reflex for everyone in much the same way that it is a habituated tendency for many religious people to add something religion relevant to many of the things they say, in either case it is done out of habit and without thinking.....
Everybody's brain is ScotchGuarded against something so any argument should include being mindful of not adding anything that will make everything you say bounce of....
After having zealous Christians push their philosophy on me for my whole life while doing some very unloving things to me, the whole Christian religion thing was ruined because of hypocrisy. It still is. BUT..to clarify...I learned rhat a relationship with God's love, with Jesus, is a separate matter. Through grace, I found that relationship in 2012. So when people come at me using certain terms, it is off-putting until I find out what the person is really like and what judgements and labels they are applying to others. In other words, what you are like, speaks far more than what you say. In many cases, it is better to just say ' meditate on what created you and come to an understanding that you continue to matter to that source ' If a person thinks creation is not divine, you will not reach them speaking of God. A person with no sense of wonder about things, does not believe. On the other hand, a pagan lover of nature and invoker incantations to benefit other people, very well understands the spirituality of creation. Be careful not to lump them together with those who have chosen Lucifer as their deity. It is a choice, choosing Dark powers to use. Or invoking The Light. Anyone who invokes The Light is aware of God. They are very close to being able to take it further and understand Jesus' part in things.
The message of Jesus Christ trumps any other message. The salvation of Jesus Christ is more important than anything else you can possible say. Period.
You know what? Tough shit.
“Our lives are a Christ-like fragrance rising up to God. But this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing. To those who are perishing, we are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life-giving perfume. And who is adequate for such a task as this?” 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 NLT
“So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.” Isaiah 55:11 NKJV
I really do think I understand where you are coming from with this, as I was an atheist myself for many many years, and still move in those circles. It's very true that an atheist will close their ears and dismiss the judgement of an individual who they think is capable of believing nonsense. And they really do partly believe that faith in Christ and God is a special form of nonsense. (I say partly because often you discover that it is a belief that hasn't been cross-examined very rigourously)
However, there are 2 kinds of atheist - the kind who turns from God because they turn from truth itself, and the kind who turns from God because they don't yet understand who or what God really is, or aren't yet ready to discover it.
I don't think there isn't a lot to be gained from arguing with the first kind - they aren't playing the same game as you. They will use whatever excuse is convenient to dismiss anything they don't want to believe - religion, politics, any hot topic.
As for the second, well I think this is where faith changes your perspective. The atheist hasn't yet begun to understand the nature and purpose of God's patience, and so can only assess the situation from their human understanding. And from the human perspective, it's true that there may be nothing rational to be gained in insisting on a particular understanding of God's role in events. But the person of faith, if they recognise that they are talking with someone who is also playing the game of seeking the truth, knows that God may very well be planting important seeds of faith in the individual that will sprout when the time is right. You might never see that seed grow, but that doesn't mean that it isn't going to.
The Christian always knows in his heart that the only issue that really matters in the long-term is whether or not the individual comes to a place where they are ready to recieve the salvation Christ offers. Everything else is ultimately second to that, no matter how compelling it is in the present.
That said, I think there are ways of remaining steadfast and open about the nature of our faith without totally closing the ears of those we are talking with, and i always do what I can to try and discern what aspect of faith I think a person might be ready for.
But ultimately God always suprises me - he never reveals himself to others the way I would have had him do it. And so that's partly why we keep speaking up - because we simply don't know how God is using our words and how he is working in those around us. But even if we forget to be honest, kind and careful in the way we express our faith, we know he can find a use it...
Guess what? I don't care. It's godless bullshit that got us here and I'm pretty sure you're about to get real acquainted with evil. Don't look the devil in the eye! Just haul ass and pray. I was like you once. Exactly like you. I accidentally peaked. The devil is very real, therefore so is God who saved me Otherwise, I'd be dead. The time for holding our hearts, ssouls and tongues for you guys is over. Get over it. Get saved or don't. Your soul, not mine. Free will.
You are ABSOLUTELY correct.
They literally (correct use of that damn word) consider the Bible to be as valid as a comic book, and God to be its main superhero. Look at it this way.... anytime you say God, they hear Spiderman. Keep this in mind when you try to persuade them of anything.
Thou shalt have no superhero before Spiderman.
If Spiderman is for us who can be against us.
As for my house, we will serve Spiderman.
When you speak this is truly what they hear. Call it wrong. Call it blasphemous. But just understand that you WILL NOT persuade them at all with your faith.
Dont take it out on me or the OP... instead, Know the truth and the truth will set you free.
God told us to speak His word. What others hear is between them and God. They will be responsible for that and it’s up to God to grow His seeds. He said He would. So in faith, I’ll forever plant them. Regardless of the complaints emitting from the dirt. God said that would happen, it’s not a surprise or anything we need to account for.
God told us not to expect them to listen. Jeremiah 7:27 (ESV) “So you shall speak all these words to them, but they will not listen to you. You shall call to them, but they will not answer you.
But He still told us to tell them, that maybe when we tell them the full truth they will realize the error of their ways and turn back to God.
Jeremiah 26:2b-3 (ESV) 2b “...do not hold back a word. 3 It may be they will listen, and every one turn from his evil way, that I may relent of the disaster that I intend to do to them because of their evil deeds.
“Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.” Hebrews 4:11-13 ESV
2 Peter 1:13 (NLT) And it is only right that I should keep on reminding you as long as I live.
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” Colossians 3:16 ESV
1 Corinthians 2:14 (ESV) The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Ephesians 5:19 (NKJV) speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1 ESV
“Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.” Joshua 1:8 NLT
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV