I find it hard to believe one can truly accept The Blood without also being compelled to do works. It just doesn't feel like it works that way, nor do my experiences bear it out.

Really appreciate any and all discussion though. All readings give more context and strengthen faith.

🙏

Which requires repentance, which is the hard part.

lol. There are so many presumptions and interpretations that you are bringing along here. I get it. I've been exposed to that all my life. But really, its the worst possible interpretation, one that almost always is grounded in a reaction to the mistakes, misdeeds and failures of others.

E.g. the person who observes their local priest doings something really bad, who then rejects everything that the priest represents to them.

The gaslighting that your tuning in to is I think of your own creation. Or of someone else's that you've chosen to adopt.

You might try to think about things from a completely different angle, as an exercise. For example, what if....? But if you're negatively attached to the perspective you've adopted, that can be hard.

A few points that might be worth considering;

Christian teaching is heavily reliant on metaphor and parable. What does it mean to put "the blood of Jesus on my heart". Obviously, it's not literal. So then, what does it actually mean? What's the metaphor attempting to communicate?

Spiritual reality is the foundation and basis for the material reality. Physically, our biological system (aka body) is reproduced, lives and dies according to certain principles. Why should the spirit be any different? What if it isn't?

E.g. Genetics. We inherit and carry forward a certain foundation from our lineage, that is, our parentage and their parentage, etc. Epigenetics shows that even mental/emotional/ (spiritual?) content can and is carried down the line. Trauma, for example. When born, we start with what we are given via our lineage. Spiritually, its the same. And if some deep, penetrating flaw was somehow embedded in our entire race (human) early on in our history because of a critical mistake and failure, then that would be carried forward.

E.g. gravity. If you stand on a very tall cliff and simply step off, you'll crash to the ground and be injured or killed. It's got nothing to do with punishment, or whether you like it or not. The action has a consequence. And, to the extent that the action is a result of what you choose to do, YOU are responsible for the result. Not God or anyone else.

Likewise, choices in the spiritual sphere have consequences.

We come from a past in which our ancestors were - for whatever reason - some would say it was a result of the 'fall' of "Adam and Eve" - they have been extremely ignorant and limited in sophistication of thought. Primitive is the word I'm thinking of. So, as they tuned in to and gradually uncovered spiritual principles - just like they tuned in to and uncovered physical principles (laws of nature, etc) - they developed often unsophisticated ways of interpreting and explaining them.

If God is/was communicating to them in order to help them develop their understanding and move forward - just like science has, for example - then it's got to be a progressive movement.

Some people of faith are still in a mindset that was perhaps contemporary 2500 years ago. Others are not.

If evil exists, it's purpose is certainly to get us to make the worst possible interpretation and use the mistakes, failures and short-comings of others as a rationale and justification for the negative views it wants us to adopt. An old game, as old as the hills. And, those who fall for it are just being played.

"my old man was a bastard; he beat my mum. He beat us kids." >>>> "people in our society are basically bad."

"My mother always told me she'd suffer if I didn't do what she wanted" >>>>>> "people just use guilt feelings to manipulate us, and that especially goes for religion"

Cause and effect. Evil is always striving to push us towards the interpretations of events and things and people that poison our hearts and make us less than we could be.

I'm not a big fan of people of faith who over emphasize the "believe or you are screwed for eternity" approach and idea. I think it completely circumvents a much more important reality. It's a very immature approach, imo. I.e.

"Never play with fire, because fire will burn you." sure, we teach that to our little kids, but at some point, it's useless information, and will actually retard development if a guy who is 22 and who lives in the countryside is actually scared of fire and can never use fire to cook, or remove scrub, or whatever, because he's been trained to fear it.

Punishment, guilt, fear - these were necessary in the past when, from a spiritual viewpoint, we were little kids who couldn't grasp much beyond that. That's why the Old testament is the way it is.

To quote Paul: "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known...."

Even Paul recognized that his understanding was limited and restricted, and he intuited or saw in the future some point when he (and the "we) he spoke of, aka his peers, would move beyond what he understood at that time.

Personally, I can relate to what you are saying. You've got a mind that thinks critically, and uses reason. However, I'd like to suggest that there are other factors (i.e. experiences and emotions, etc) shaping WHAT you are looking at and WHAT you are focusing on, and how you are interpreting it.

Be skeptical, but also do an honest think about what feelings you're experiencing and where they might be coming from. And ask, what if I didn't have those feelings? Is there another possible interpretation?

Nothing it lost by such musings. At worst, you'll come away with a slightly expanded view. But you might also find something you never expected to. If a viewpoint being expressed just grates with you ("Accept Jesus or you are going to hell for eternity"), then ask WHY it grates with you, and also ask if perhaps that viewpoint is limited and immature, even if it's connected to a fundamental truth.

Like fire. Fire can hurt and fire can kill. But fire can also save lives, and sustain lives.

Either way, best of luck. (Personal note; When I was a teenager, I rejected Christianity and religion in general, because of all the flaws I saw or felt in the approaches to faith, etc, that others around me adopted. It was only later that I understood, oh, ok, these people are imperfect, and perhaps they are not really as mature as I thought they were as a kid. I became able to accept them and appreciate them, not because they were sophisticated in their approach, but because beyond thought and understanding, human beings have hearts. I found a sense of compassion once I realized that the Christian ideas and concepts being promoted around me were not bad, they were just a limited and immature attempt.

Today, our minds have developed to the level where old and simplistic explanations don't really cut the mustard. So it's natural to reject them in many cases. But if there is any truth underneath them, at their core, then a more sophisticated grasp is required. That's where humanity is today. The faith conceptualizations (aka interpretations) that sustained and developed our civilization for the past 2000 years have become outdated, outmoded.

When the scripture says "the sun will lose its light, the stars will fall, etc" it's a metaphor for the time when old expressions of the truth will not longer suffice. New wine incoming, so we need new wineskins. Doesn't mean the old wineskins were useless. It means, we moved forward enough that we need to go to the next level. In that sense, personally speaking, I appreciate the angle you are coming from. In some ways, I think it's correct. But I also think it's mistaken in some ways as well. The question is, how?

best of luck.

No. Its not just what our ancestors did it’s the free will in all of us and how our flesh and this world affects how we use our free will. We are all sinners and in need of salvation. It’s like being lost at sea in a sinking boat and when the rescuer comes in a lifeboat to save you, you are too stubborn to accept the help needed to be saved. You prolly think you can swim on your own just fine. You’ll see. Jesus is the lifeboat. He is waiting on you. It is your choice that will get you saved or tortured for ever. He sacrificed Himself to save us and to be saved we must sacrifice ourselves for Him. Leave your worldly wisdom, worldly desires, and worldly behaviors behind and live in His spirit. Or don’t. It’s all up to you but He is the only salvation from the torture you speak of.

1 Samuel 23:14?

But even then I fail to see your point.

Partly it's psyop, but also partly it's immaturity.

When our people were much less mature, that was all that they could relate to. Like telling a child "Don't run across the road; it's very, very dangerous!"

if you consider that from God's viewpoint, history is the history of God seeking to re-educate us and bring us out of spiritual ignorance that was caused by "the fall", via a necessarily gradual process going through various stages, then the first ideas and 'truths' were necessary and applicable at their time, but as we moved forward, matured, those older ideas become less effective and less applicable.

E.g. I think of 'religion' like an education system. In the distant pre-record past, intellectually and spiritual, we were like small children, not really understanding anything. Thus, superstitious, etc, and vulnerable to exploitation by evil because we couldn't even distinguish between right and wrong.

The israelites were the beachhead where God could bring into focus certain fundamental spiritual principles, and get one ethnic group among the many in the world to practice those. Then, Jesus appeared with a completely new level, and upgrade. He was rejected because, even though God had prepared them for thousands of years, too many failures and mistakes resulted in getting them to think outside their accepted frame was just too difficult.

It didn't stop God or Jesus, and the new (higher) grasp of the underlying truths spread across the globe.

But the Cabal (and their master, Evil) are always striving to infiltrate, corrupt and manipulate. Thus, the truth that salvation is necessary became exploited and used as a weapon that generates fear and other negative emotional responses. What the idea of salvation being necessary SHOULD stimulate are: reflection on self, understanding, gratitude, hope, inspiration. But evil wants to manipulate HOW we think about ideas and truths so that negative ideas and responses are generated.

So, I think it's partly immaturity, and it's partly psyop (manipulation).

But I agree with you inasmuch as I think the idea that ""fear and obey, filthy sinner, or you'll suffer in hell for all eternity" is way out of date, has become packed with negative energy and should be put to the wayside for a more mature grasp of things. The "filthy sinner" part is problematic in the least. Immature and damaged parents use guilt, fear, negative approaches to control their kids. unless the child can grow and come to realize how damage the parents were, they may well perpetuate the problems.

Oversimplistic, and unhelpful way of putting it, in most cases.

Truth is like a scalpel. It can be used to heal and save, or it can also be used to harm and kill.

"Hey, a scalpel is a scalpel. Truth is truth."

No, anyone who has access to truth is then responsible for how they use it.

Some people kill others spiritually and make their path towards God and Christ MUCH harder because they have no sensitivity to what the other person needs to hear. In other words, wielding the truth but without real guidance by the heart or the holy spirit can be very destructive.

You're not helping anyone, including yourself.

You keep telling yourself that.