Boy oh boy. Pentecostalism is mostly a health, wealth, prosperity scam. They cherry pick verses like nobody’s business twisting scripture at every turn. Just as Q said, “ be careful who you follow!” I can spot it a mile away. And as far as this rapture, Jesus does come gather the saints but not at the time most evangelical pastors would have you believe. Jesus said it would come after the sun and moon are darkened and after that man of lawlessness stands in the holy place and proclaims to be God. His image has, at that point of time along with his mark, already been established. This would be in a 75 day time frame after 3 1/2 years of this Great persecution (tribulation) of Christs church. Such as the world has never seen before. Jesus told us that we would know as the days approached but no man knows th the day or hour. Not even himself. He told us exactly what to watch for. When you see the abomination that makes desolation! The reason nobody can agree on this subject is because a false docterine has been pounded down our throats for over 200 years now and there are a lot of pastors getting rich selling the world and not the gospel. Ci Scofeild was a heritic who made millions selling his reference Bible full of his opinions that are now considered facts. Truth is ci Scofeild was a pervert. A homo. Look it up. The whole rapture docterine came from a 15 year old girl who had a fever and started hallucinating. This image she saw became what is known as the pretrib rapture docterine. It is false. Once you learn to study scripture what you find is that over and over and over again the Bible confirms everything it says. It is actually phenomenal. The understanding only comes from the spirit. Jesus gave us the timeline yet 90% of modern evangelicals do not believe what Jesus said. This tells me two things. 1.) they are being misled. 2-) if the pastor says it it must be true. 3.) repeating a prayer does not get you saved. There is nothing a person can do in their own will or power to enter the kingdom of Christ. One must simply turn from self and turn to God. You wouldn’t believe this talking to most “Christian’s. You would think self is the only thing people think about. Sad reality. Most professing Christian’s are not born of the spirit. Now back to understanding scripture. The number one thing to always remember is context. The Who, what, where , when, why, and how. Ask it with every verse you read. Who wrote it, who are they speaking to, when and what was the time of writing and the customs of that time. Once you do this and realize it is written mostly in chronological order then whe you read revelation it becomes clear. It opened my eyes when I realized everything I have ever been taught is a lie. Government was not my first awakening. The church was. Once I woke to that I became the biggest conspiracy theorist I know. I am a fundamentalist when it comes to church. I don’t like titles. Baptist, Methodist, ect. I believe it all started with Constantine and his desire to keep Rome in power. They were loosing control of the people due to this, “Jesus” speak and they couldn’t have it. So Rome adopted it as a state religion and added paganism in order to appease and control the masses. History is long l, but you can see the same evil then as now. The difference is we are starting to enter a period of time where the beast will wage war on the saints and most are not prepared if even saved. They have been taught that Jesus gonna rapture you out so you don’t have to face the devils wrath. False. It’s Gods wrath we are safe from, not satans. Persecution is another word for tribulation. Why would there be tribulation or persecution of the saints if all the saints disappeared. It makes no sense and people just write it off as, “revelation is too scary to understand, but I know what my pastor says and he said if I give him more money then God will give me 100 fold and I’m gonna get to buy me a nice car with a fancy house and live my best life now in prosperity cause Jesus wants me to enjoy all the pleasures of this world.” That is 100% antithetical to scripture. Jesus said be seperate. Hate the world and all the things in it. We are not of this world. We have been born again a new creature. We are to worship the creator not the creation. Food for thought fren!
When Christ spoke of the abomination of desolation in Matthew, he’s talking to Jews.
How do we know this? He instructs His listeners to pray that their flight from the abomination not take place on the sabbath. Christians don’t observe the sabbath as Christ is our sabbath per Hebrews.
The church is the bride of Christ. In the Jewish wedding traditions that early Christians would have been familiar with, the bride makes herself ready for the groom to come take her without knowing when he’ll arrive. If this analogy holds, then why would Christ let His church go through the Tribulation, which is tantamount to the groom abusing his bride before the marriage? Why would Christ let His church endure His wrath when He’s already paid for their sin?
Short answer - Tribulation is what man does to Christ's bride, Not the wrath of God. Jesus said Himself that we would see persecution for His name's sake, and Revelation confirms this.
If you would like, I will provide a more detailed answer.
Part of the confusion here is that "tribulation" is used in two different senses. Yes, the church does go through tribulation here on earth, though I try to use persecution instead to avoid confusion. The Tribulation, the contents of Revelation 6-19, is notably different from the kind of persecution that Christ said the church would go through.
Persecution of the church comes exclusively at the hands of other men, the best examples are from the gospels and Acts. Aside from the Antichrist's persecution of those who don't take the Mark, virtually all of the woes/trumpets/bowls/etc. in Revelation come straight from God.
The phrase "wrath of God/the Lamb" is used extensively to refer to the Tribulation, and to my knowledge never to general persecution. This phrase first pops up in Revelation 6:16-17. This is after the sixth seal is opened, and the seals are the first catastrophic events of the Tribulation period. This in my mind refutes the growing theory that only the second half of the Tribulation is the wrath of God.
The difficulty I have with that position is two fold, but voted you up anyway for explaining it clearly.
(1)
Many times people blame God for natural disasters, when we people have not followed God's principles for stewardship of creation. Some of the seals (woes) here can now be accomplished by evil men. Also, when the first plagues hit Egypt, both the Israelites and the Egyptians delt with the consequences of them.
Revelation 11 is the first time we see anyone trustworthy mention the wrath of God: (the 24 Elders) 15 - 18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; **and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.>
and the harvest of souls occurs afterward,
Rev, 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, (Hint! and a big one!) having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Yeah and they give it exactly. 3.5 years in after the the abomination the sun and moon are darkened the dead in Christ rise and all who are alive and remain are caught up (transformed in the blink of an eye). It’s always the same. Then a period of about 75 days takes place. If not for Christ shortening those days then no flesh would be saved. It is appointed once for man to die!
Acts 2:20 mentions the sun going dark and the moon turning to blood before the Day of the Lord, but that is not the Rapture. The Day of the Lord is when Christ comes back at the end of the Tribulation, which logically requires the Rapture to happen first. References in the gospels and Revelation to the sun going dark place it during the Tribulation, and don’t give a direct time frame between this event and the Rapture. They don’t even definitely say that the Sun going dark comes first. Of course in my view the Rapture happens first; a full list of arguments can be found in the links that I provided earlier.
I also still can’t find your 75 days. Daniel 12:11-12 gives the closest number, but it’s still not 75. It gives 1,290 days between the Abomination being set up and the Temple being cleanses, then says that those who make it to 1,335 days after the Abomination are blessed. I’m my view the 1,335 day is the Day of the Lord, when AntiChrist is defeated and the Millennial Kingdom is established. It’s still a difference of 45 days, not 75. And since Daniel uses days instead of years or months in its calculations, these numbers don’t change depending on what calendar you use.
75 comes from the fact that they did not use an American calendar in those days. It’s all in revelation and Daniel. Plain as day. Chronological order. And confirmed in many other scriptures that the timeline is flawless. It is exact every time. Sun and moon first! Pay attention when reading in context. Don’t take pastor bobs word for it. It blew my mind when I realized it. It’s what originally woke me up. Use a Jewish calander and add up the days mentioned and you will see exactly to the week what will take place. It’s not distorted by a people, it is distorted by false teachers who lack study. I am not claiming you to be this I am just saying, I once was lost and now I am found. Was blind but now I see. I studied for myself and took all preconceived notions and traditions out. I found out that the old fundamentalist have it right. The old fire and brimstone preachers were right up until the corporate mega seminaries too over in the 16-1700’s. It’s always been about control. It is the enemies forte. You control people by telling them they can do whatever they want and if they will just repeat a little prayer all their dreams will come true. It is another gospel!
The old fundamentalists generally subscribed to the pre tribulation pre millennial position. Including some of the oldest church fathers like Iraneus.
Mid Trib, post Trib, a millennial, and post millenial are all positions invented later and/or adopted by denominations with other doctrinal problems (Catholics, Anglicans, LDS, etc).
In either case, none of the alternate views of eschatology constitute another gospel in and of themselves. A post Tribulation a millennial can preach the gospel just as accurately as a premillennial pre Trib preacher. Salvation is still by grace through faith in Jesus Christ no matter how future events shake out.
Oh here we go with Matthew preaching to Jews. Yes Matthew was written to Jew, but this book was written to Christian converts. When Christ instructs John to write to the churches in revelation he speaks of those he saw at the alter crying how long until God avenges their blood on earth. The angel tells them to wait until the rest of the martyrs are killed. Why would Christ say the sun and moon should be darkened first? Only for the Jews? He came to his own and they received it not. The same is repeated over and over that we would see the abomination. It is in the Old Testament as well as the new. This timeline never changes. It is the same in all the books mentioned. You are to overcome the flesh. Not expect God to save your flesh. It is spiritual. When you are changed in the blink of an eye then you will see. When the veil of flesh is lifted and you realize that we were created from the earth and will remain with the earth in the flesh. It is appointed once for man to die after this is the judgment. We will die. We have to. If I use your logic then why has Christ allowed the persecution of his church ( Bride) as long as he has already? Because the martyrs are waiting on the rest of us. They are asleep waiting for Christ to raise them from the dead. Then those who are alive and remain are transformed in the blink of an eye. Once the antichrist declares all who hold the testimony of Christ to be put to death it is said that if Christ dosnt shorten those days then no flesh would be saved. This is in a time span of about 75 days after the abomination. The Jews who have claimed him as the messiah will realize they were wrong. War is waged at that point on Jews and Christian’s because it is at that point they realize that Jesus was their messiah and because of the two witnesses many will get saved. But it’s about 75 days until Christ and the saints following him unleash hell on earth as they pour out The Wrath of God on all who took the mark and worshiped the beasts image. Jewish calendar and parallel scripture confirms this timeline over 20 biblically. Christ told us they would kill is because they hate him!
I didn't say the whole book of Matthew was only for Jews, I said that in that specific conversation in Matthew 24 Christ is speaking to a Jewish audience, which we know because He mentions the observation of the sabbath.
Revelation doesn't mention the martyrs until chapter 6, which is after the Tribulation starts. Furthermore it doesn't specify when those martyrs were killed. Lastly, many Israelites during the Tribulation will be saved only to be persecuted and martyred by the Antichrist. None of this conclusively indicates that the church goes through the Tribulation.
I also don't see where Christ says that the sun and the moon must be darkened before the abomination. Could you provide a reference?
"He came unto His own and His own received Him not" has already been fulfilled, hence why the phrase is in the past tense. No relevance to end times prophecy.
You are to overcome the flesh. Not expect God to save your flesh.
You are conflating the metaphorical meaning of "flesh" referring to our sin nature with the literal meaning of God saving us from His Wrath.
If I use your logic then why has Christ allowed the persecution of his church ( Bride) as long as he has already?
Because the persecution that the church has encountered thus far is not the Wrath of God. Only the Tribulation gets that moniker.
This is in a time span of about 75 days after the abomination.
According to Daniel 12:12 there is going to be approximately three and a half years from the time the abomination is set up to the time it is abolished. Not sure where you're getting 75 from.
The two witnesses start their ministry toward the beginning of the Tribulation, being executed and resurrected shortly before or right as the abomination is set up, which is the halfway point of the 7 year Tribulation. You are correct that many, Jew and Gentile alike, will still have the opportunity to get saved.
Tribulation is sometimes used in scripture to refer to general persecution, but in modern vernacular the word tribulation is almost always associated with the 7 year period dominated by the Antichrist. Furthermore the Bible itself makes a distinction between general persecution and the Tribulation. Revelation says that this period will be worse than any other period or any other type of persecution in history, and as you have rightly pointed out, it will be so bad that if allowed to continue it would wipe out all life on earth.
When I remember to do so I’ll capitalize Tribulation to refer to the 7 years before the Day of the Lord, and persecution to refer to, well, the persecution that Christians encounter during the church age. That should eliminate any confusion.
What if the tribulation, 2nd coming, millenial reign already happened shortly after Jesus said it would "come to pass shortly?" What if we are in Rev 20 after Satan was loosed to deceive the world and waiting on the New Earth? We have been lied to about so much of our history. Question everything!
This is something I have been thinking as well. I go back and forth between partial preterism and we are now in the end times.
The 'short season' theory would explain the rush of the mid 1800s to date to destroy technologies and architectures that may have been creates during Christs reign.
This!! Dispensationalism, pretrib rapture are all modern "christian" thought. I consider myself a partial preterist (meaning most of revelations was already fulfilled during the early church period along with the destruction of the temple in ad70, Christ is actually reigning, and will return in final judgment at the end of time). Regarding the millennium I've yet to decide post vs amil. Post mil is more positive, so I'd lean that way honestly
I agree. There is always a possibility but i know that if per chance Donald Trump starts demanding we take a mark then i merely dont take it and become a martyr.
The signs are pretty straight forward and those who love and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ are not afraid of death like those who whose hearts are fulled with fear and doubts.
Because multiple OT prophecies talk about the millennial reign, with proclamations that Jesus will reign from Jerusalem and that the lion will lie with the lamb.
As far as I’m aware, neither of those things has occurred yet. Satan should be bound for the entire time period of 1,000 years and unable to deceive the nations, but it seems clear to me that he has had free rein to do so for all of recorded history.
Lastly, the specific events surrounding the Tribulation have not been precisely replicated by historical events. Some people try to make Antiochus IV the Antichrist because he desecrated the Temple, but the duration of his desecration does not match the time period given in Daniel for the Abomination of Desolation.
I don’t think any of the events in Revelation after the letters to the 7 churches has happened yet. We’re still waiting for the trumpet.
In the pamphlet above, it would be MOST informative if we knew either (1) actual dates, or failing that, at least (2) a date this was published. Maybe the pamphlet is a year old....maybe 5....or 10 or 20. Who knows? As it is, it exists in a vacuum that is impossible to interpret.
This is not accurate.. The book of revelation is mind bending, however this timeline shows “we are here” just before the 6th trumpet. There are 7 seals followed by 7 trumpets followed by 7 bowls of wrath. The two witnesses begin their ministry at the opening of the seals (scrolls). Not after the trumpets. Also, after the 1000 years, satan is released once more for final judgement and then is thrown into the lake of fire. It’s not a massive read if you start at chapter 4.
Christians will be killed for the cause of Christ. And pastors are not warning people to strengthen their faith. It’s coming and if you cannot see the birthing pains of this then you might need to wake up. Not you op but anyone in general. Christianity is under attack like back in the Roman days. It’s only going to get worse. And no DJT is not going to save us. I hate this world. It is a miserable lonely place full of crooks looking to take advantage. A roaring lion seeking who’s he may devour. We are a bunch of sheep in the midst of wolves. Come Lord Jesus Come Yeshua!
The abomination (that leads to) Desolation was the rejection of Gods plan through His son Jesus.
They rejected His plan and continued to offer sacrifices in the temple.
The desolation of the temple took place in 70ad.
If they were to build another temple as many say that temple would also be an abomination. Because once again they have completely rejected Gods plan.
Christians;
We really should consider why things like this are pushed.
In Daniel 9 we read about the seventy sevens.
The last seven has been twisted to produce ideas like this pamphlet.
The truth is the last seven was Jesus and His ministry.
Jesus started His ministry after he was baptized. (the end of the 69th seven).
There is no 2000 year gap between the 69th seven and the 70th seven. That idea is just nonsense.
Daniel 9 24
Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR people to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy.
The Seventy Sevens were about the Jews (your people) not the world.
Jesus fulfilled all of that.
In Daniel 9 verse 27 we read
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.
Jesus ministry lasted 3 1/2 years. Then he died and rose again.
THAT ENDED THE SACRIFICE AND OFFERING.
The temple sacrifice and offering that continued after that point WAS the abomination. That abomination lead to the temple being destroyed in 70ad.
For 3 1/2 years after Jesus rose the gospel only went to the Jews. That completed the seventy seven.
Right after that Peter had a vision of the sheet with the unclean animals. That is when the gospel went out to everyone. (Acts 10).
I know this is not what is taught in "Christian" books and churches. Just consider who you trust and why you trust them. (that includes what I wrote here).
The Abomination of Desolation does not refer to Jews continuing to make sacrifices after the crucifixion.
Daniel makes it clear that the Antichrist, who sets up the abomination, is not himself an Israelite, but a foreigner (possibly Syrian or Turkish) who makes a deal with Israel for 7 years. He betrays Israel halfway through and sets up the abomination for 3.5 years, after which Christ returns and judges the nations. Then the millennial kingdom, then eternity.
By your timeline we should already be in eternity with no sin.
If your interpretation were correct, which historical figure made a 7 year deal with Israel during Jesus ministry? Why did Jewish sacrifices continue for nearly 30 years after the crucifixion, rather than the 3.5 years given by Daniel?
the seventy sevens where for Daniels people ONLY. You can see that in Daniel 9:24
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people.
verses 24-25 talk about the first 69 "sevens" or weeks.
verse 26
26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[g]
the footnote (g) reads... Daniel 9:26 Or death and will have no one; or death, but not for himself.
The rest of verse 26 The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood:
We see that is history. The ruler who came after Jesus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70ad.
That temple had become an abomination because the people rejected The Living God and His son.
Verse 27
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.
There is no where is scripture where it says that anyone other than God confirms a covenant.
Jesus confirmed the covenant. In the middle of that Seven he died and rose. At That point any sacrifice at the temple would be a rejecting of the new covenant.
That is what the abomination was.
3 1/2 years after Jesus started his ministry he was "cut off" 3 /12 year after that the gospel when only to the Jews. That ended the 70 sevens.
Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Scripture makes it clear that as far as God is concerned there is no longer a separation between Jew or Gentile.
There are a people today that call themselves Jews but they are most likely not blood related in the Jews of the bible.
If they decide to build a temple the only reason they are doing that is because they have rejected the gospel. That temple would be a pagan temple.
I am not looking to get people upset here. I know full well that this is a touchy subject. I have my suspicions as to why a certain idea is pushed about this subject in scripture.
It's political, I will leave it at that.
...By your timeline we should already be in eternity with no sin.
By my timeline we are in what the bible calls "the age to come"
That is the age after the law was removed (70ad).
The first century Christians were like the first Generation Jews that left Egypt. They wandered in the dessert for 40 years until a new generation came along.
The first century Christians were still partially holding on to the law. 40 years after Jesus the temple was destroyed
There are other parallels between the 40 years in the dessert and the 40 years before the temple was destroyed.
One of those parallels is this. Moses went up into the mountain and after 50 days came back with the Ten Commandments. The people were sinning and 3000 were put to the sword.
Compare that to Jesus rising from the grave. 50 days later was the day of Pentecost when 3000 people were saved
2 Corinthians 5:21
Jesus became sin so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
When we trust God our sins are no longer counted against us. That is what it means when it says there is no more sin.
The ruler who came after Jesus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70ad.
And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Daniel 9:26
Here we see that a group of people shall destroy the city, with a prince coming afterwards from the same people. Who destroyed the Temple in 70 AD? They were led by a Roman general, but the soldiers were primarily Syrians or Turks. This indicates that Antichrist might be from one of those two groups.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week...
From Hebrews and Paul we know that a testament is of no effect until the death of the testator. Ergo by your reckoning the 7 year final week wouldn't even start until the crucifixion. Either way the Temple was not eradicated either 3.5 or 7 years after the crucifixion. Having the crucifixion as either the start or the middle of the final week doesn't match Daniel at all.
The clearest interpretation is that Christ came at the end of the 69th week, with the church age being a "pause button" of sorts before the final week. Keep in mind OT prophecy completely overlooks the church age, as that is the time of the Gentiles and thus not relevant to the Jews.
There is no where is scripture where it says that anyone other than God confirms a covenant.
Incorrect. Israel made a covenant with the Gibeonites (Joshua 9). David made a covenant with Jonathan (1 Samuel 18). In Exodus 23 God commands Israel to not make covenants with other gods, implying that they have the physical capability to do so (there wouldn't be a point to God telling you not to sin if you couldn't commit the sin in the first place). In 2 Kings 23:3 King Josiah made a covenant before the Lord. People make covenants in the Bible all the time. There's no reason to believe that the Antichrist is incapable of making a covenant, even if purely out of wicked mockery of God's covenant with Israel.
The age to come is used almost exclusively to refer to eternity, after sin is finally defeated and we live forever with Christ. Compare Mat. 12:32, Mark 3:28-30, Mark 10:30, Luke 20:34-36, Mat. 12:24-43, Eph. 1:21, and Col. 2:14. None of these passages make sense if "this age" means pre church age and "the age to come" means the church age.
The first century Christians were still partially holding on to the law.
Only some did, the Judaizers and those who fell prey to their false doctrine. This error was corrected by the Council of Jerusalem well before 70 AD. It was never a majority position or one held to by the Apostles.
You are right, outside of the bible do not trust what I or anybody else have written.
Take the information and seek God for the truth. That is what we are called to do.
James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
No, we live in what the bible called the age to come.
An age where grace and forgiveness rules.
Free Will is our choice to believe what God said is true and walk in that. Or to allow our fears to eat away at what God freely gives us.
Daniel Chapter 9:24 says
The Jews have seventy sevens to do six things. (notice this was written to the Jews not to the rest of the world) It was pointing to Jesus.
to finish transgression
to put an end to sin
3)to atone for wickedness
4)to bring in everlasting righteousness
5)to seal up vision and prophecy
To anoint the Most Holy One
Jesus has done all of that.
Jesus has brought in everlasting righteousness. Our sins are no longer counted against us.
That does not mean that we have lost our free will. We will always have free will.
Some people seem to think that Jesus will return and we will no longer sin. Are they saying that we will no longer sin because free will was taken away? Or are they saying that because we see God we will not sin?
Adam and Eve were walking and talking with God and yet they sinned. Will we be any different then them?
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory!
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Our righteousness even with our new nature will never be enough. We will always have free will. With free will there will always be the ability to sin.
The only lasting solution is the Grace of God.
Where our sin is no longer counted against us.
We are just called to trust in Him
Agreed, but we have a part to play, as well - Trusting enough to obey, not perfectly, (Yet!) but with a pursuit of Him that is whole hearted. We will have no desire to sin when the new heavens and the new earth come, and some will have no desire to sin even before that, when the event described in the passage quoted above comes to fruition.
When I talk about trusting God I am not talking about just saying some words. I mean trusting God.
Let me try to explain.
Back in 1979 I was not a very good person. Just to keep this simple one moment I was not a believer the next moment I was.
I did not know anything about church or what I was "supposed" to do. I did not "repent" by confessing my sins.
I spent the next couple of months reading the bible, praying and seeking God. I found that I did not want to lie or cheat because I knew it was not life.
For me there was amazing joy just knowing that God was real and he loved me.
My girlfriend (who is now my wife) also became a Christian.
For the first month or so I didn't talk to anybody. Except my girlfriend. Not because I didn't want to but because I was seeking God every moment I had.
It may sound boring to you but it was the best time of my life. I was walking in pure joy.
Then I went to visit a friend that did not know what had happened with me.
I knocked on his door. When he opened it he took a step back and say you're different, I want what you have. So he is also a Christian.
Then someone told me about Christian churches. Talk about being clueless. I just didn't know.
I go to church and I hear that in order to be a Christian I need to pray at least 15 minutes a day, Read my bible every day, Repent of my sins. On and On.
So I thought I was doing great. I easily prayed 15 minutes a day. I was always reading my bible. I wasn't sure if I repented the way I was "supposed" to. So I told God I was a sinner and asked Him to forgive my sins.
Things changed after that. Instead of praying because I wanted to be with God I was checking my watch to make sure I was praying for at least 15 minutes. I was checking how much time I was reading my bible.
In other words what was a joy became a law that I had to follow.
To keep it simple I was completely deceived. I don't blame anybody, it was my choice to be deceived. I look back now and I realize that I wanted to be sure that I was walking with God. I no longer trusted that He was speaking to me. Maybe I was making it all up.
I started to do more things for the church. We had a youth group that was growing fast. I poured my life into it
What was really happening was not good. I replaced Loving God with repenting of my sins by doing good works. It all sounded holy and right.
A few years later I was falling apart on the inside. I wanted so much to be perfect in his eyes. I just couldn't do it. I failed at being perfect over and over.
Finally I just gave up. I told God that I couldn't follow Him anymore because I was a complete failure.
That is when I heard Him say, When did I tell you to do these things? Return to your first love.
So when I say that trusting God is all we need to be saved I am saying that from my understanding of trusting God instead of what we can do to be right with Him.
So... Christ will not return, and we'll just be living in this nominal, depraved world and just be content with "grace"? I'm sorry, but I just don't follow.
We are called to Worship in Spirit and Truth.
We have to question why do we think we need to See Him in order to worship Him?
I believe Jesus will return but not in flesh (Just to be clear He can do whatever He wants).
We were created to live in the Garden. My belief is that in some way we are returning to a garden. Just like the Garden of Eden.
I don't know how that will happen I just know that the 2,000 year gap is a money maker for the people that push it.
It is also used to justify political things going on in the Middle East.
This is absolute rubbish and plainly concocted by someone who has not studied what the Bible actually says.
I do not know of a scripture which says there will be a great revival before the return of Christ in fact the opposite a great apostacy - falling away.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Satan banished from Heaven 3 1/2 years into the final 7 years??
"It is certain that Satan had fallen before Genesis 3 where the temptation of Adam and Eve is recorded. He fell before man fell; but whether he fell before or after man’s creation, we cannot say for certain." (ANGELS ELECT AND EVIL, by C. Fred Dickason, p. 135
Yet from Job we see that Satan comes before the throne of God just as the other non fallen angels do. God strikes up conversation with him as if it’s not a rare occurrence. Satan was clearly allowed some level of access into heaven after his rebellion, possibly even on a regular basis.
Revelation 12 speaks of the war in heaven in which Satan is cast down to the earth, and this chapter lies squarely in the middle of the Tribulation period, after the seven trumpets, after the two witnesses, and before the Mark of the Beast is introduced.
To be fair, this is pretty much the one thing the chart gets right. Everything else makes no sense under a literal, chronological reading of Revelation and Daniel.
I am not a bible expert but here is an interesting observation. The DS was supposed to have their new world all sorted by 2030 ( hence agenda 2030). In the grand scheme of timelines, an intended bad timeline has an equally opposite good time line. If that's the case, it sure puts us at an interesting point because that's right about 7 years until 2030. Food for thought.
Exactly. Doug Wilson has written a great little book on the subject titled, "when the Man Comes Around". Gary Demar can be helpful with his works, but he is leaning full preterist, which has always been considered heresy. Also James White, Apologia church have some great info, and there's a great podcast Eschatology Matters which may help as well.
Ok so I was reading several different things just this morning by different writers, where it says The mideast peace treaty….. according to what I read basically more places in the middle east including and most importantly the Palestinians MUST sign on to the peace accord this is what they attempted to do with the Abraham accords but I think it was not on Gods timeline yet so it didnt happen. Once that does happen then the process of building the 3rd temple can begin. This in turn is supposed to bring the Antichrist into the public because he will be one of the people who signs and the 7 years begins. As far as the rapture, I believe and it does speak of it in the bible but it is called Harpazo. I think you should pray and ask God to reveal to you what it is etc. http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/Definitions/Harpazo.html
They are prepared to build the 3rd temple you can research further but one example. https://free.messianicbible.com/feature/the-temple-vessels-are-ready-for-the-rebuilding-of-jerusalems-third-temple/
From apparitions it has been stated that 7 years of tribulation begins with the Antichrists reign I think… he is walking the earth now but has yet to step onto the global stage. However thanks to prayers from people & Gods mercy that time has been shortened to 3 1/2 years the Antichrist will reign. Prior to this - there will be signs from God- everyone in the world (over the age of 7) will experience what their spiritual fate is if they were to face God- called The Warning all at the same time. Many will kill themselves & be in despair. Humanity will have 2 weeks with no evil influence to evangelize & try to save souls for God. After that 2 weeks the line will be drawn & christians will be martyred and hunted down. There will be a permanent sign in the sky for all to see (a luminous cross?) but science won’t be able to explain it. We are to separate ourselves as much from this world as we can during the Antichrists reign & God will provide us with what we need. Then when Christ comes we will be transfigured like he was - raised up body & soul and all the old shall die off. Humanity & earth need to be purified first so we can join the heavenly realm.
Over the age of 7. There is another docterine that cannot be found in scripture. Nowhere in the Bible is an age of accountability mentioned. What about the retarded? You think God would send them to hell at the age of 40? No offense just pointing out how easy it is to create docterine off man’s opinions. Sorry if that came of confrontational I meant no harm. All in love fren!
The age of 7 is believed to be the age of reason… when you can reason with a child. The mentally disabled will still experience The Warning- some may be healed. Gods the just judge so I have no idea who goes where 🤷♀️
This isn’t a biblical scripture- this is through the apparitions & messages given throughout the last few hundred years - from the Virgin Mary & Saints - like Fatima- Medjugorje-Garabandal to name a few - some verified - some not.
Mary’s dead. She’s in heaven with the father. She is not a deity. She is not omnipotent or omnipresent. She simply gave birth to God. Mary’s divinity is not taught in the Bible either.
Mary Lives - Christ broke the bondage of death. THAT is the Good News. Mary is the new Eve for the new heaven & earth- through her son Jesus Christ. She is not a diety- she is the mother of us all & deserves all respect & asks we seek her son Jesus as he is The Redeemer. Idk why people get upset with her. The Devil himself does too…
Mary lives in the spirit not in the flesh. And no there is nowhere in scripture that says she is the new Eve. She was the blessed mother of Jesus and as the rest of us, she was sinful. Only one was perfect. Only one was worthy. She was just a vessel to bring Christ into the world. Jesus never once put any focus on Mary in his ministry.
That would be paganism. False idols. There is no mediator between The father and the saint other than the Son. The papacy is not scripturally sound. In any shape or form. When comparing and contrasting with what scripture teaches I am told by the spirit to run from that teaching and to have nothing to do with it because it is another gospel. Paul would say it is accursed.
She was not without sin. That is nowhere to be found in scripture. Only one fulfilled Gods law and that was Jesus. She was as much a sinner as the rest of us.
Think what you want but the messages throughout the ages are the same. And some of the children of Medjugorje are still alive … I’ll let you read about it on your own.
https://www.medjugorje.ws/
Understood, but respectfully disagree. Acts 1: 6 - 9
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
(He Himself had promised they would reign over the twelve tribes of Israel: Luke 22: 29 - 30:
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Acts 1: 7 - 9
And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority." (In other words, It's for the Father to know, and you to find out when it happens!)
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Sorry but I disagree Mary is told that Jesus would sit on the throne of His fatehr David - David's throne was a physical one.
Revelation 5 we read that we will reign with Christ on the earth.
Daniel 2 the stone cut without hands (Jesus) a kingdom which will fill the whole earth.
Luke 1:30-32 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him** the throne of His father David.**
Revelation 5:9-10 And have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God; **and we shall reign on the earth.”
**
Daniel 2:35 the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are not the same thing.
The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom, namely the church. That kingdom is in effect now.
But there will be a future kingdom of heaven where Christ reigns physically on earth, which will be fulfilled during the millennium after the Tribulation.
OT prophecy focuses on this millennial reign and overlooks the church age, because the church age is coincident with the times of the gentiles.
Regarding the antichrist deceiving people during the millennium, this is impossible as he will be in the lake of fire and Satan will be bound after the Tribulation. Revelations indicates that the millennium is after the Tribulation, so these two players will be out of commission. Satan is only briefly released toward the end of this period, and the Antichrist is not released from the lake of fire at all.
No - try Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
This! And listening to dispensationalists today they are driving just as hard for the establishment of the third temple, which if they are right will lead to the utter destruction of the temple and Judaism as it stands in the face of Jesus Christ the Messiah. It would be another blatant rejection of Christ, making the whole endeavor part of an anti-christ agenda
I was thinking about the verse from 2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
I know there is a big fight over how old the earth is. I am not going to get into that. Just consider this.
Creation took 6 days (God rested on the 7th)
According to the Bible creation happened 6 thousand years ago.
So we are about to enter the 7th day (thousand years) of rest.
Revelation 20 we read about the ancient serpent who will be bound for 1000 years. So that he can no longer deceive the nations.
Q talked about this being bibical.
Could The Great Awakening really be the 1000 years where evil no longer controls the nations as Revelations 20 states.
Boy oh boy. Pentecostalism is mostly a health, wealth, prosperity scam. They cherry pick verses like nobody’s business twisting scripture at every turn. Just as Q said, “ be careful who you follow!” I can spot it a mile away. And as far as this rapture, Jesus does come gather the saints but not at the time most evangelical pastors would have you believe. Jesus said it would come after the sun and moon are darkened and after that man of lawlessness stands in the holy place and proclaims to be God. His image has, at that point of time along with his mark, already been established. This would be in a 75 day time frame after 3 1/2 years of this Great persecution (tribulation) of Christs church. Such as the world has never seen before. Jesus told us that we would know as the days approached but no man knows th the day or hour. Not even himself. He told us exactly what to watch for. When you see the abomination that makes desolation! The reason nobody can agree on this subject is because a false docterine has been pounded down our throats for over 200 years now and there are a lot of pastors getting rich selling the world and not the gospel. Ci Scofeild was a heritic who made millions selling his reference Bible full of his opinions that are now considered facts. Truth is ci Scofeild was a pervert. A homo. Look it up. The whole rapture docterine came from a 15 year old girl who had a fever and started hallucinating. This image she saw became what is known as the pretrib rapture docterine. It is false. Once you learn to study scripture what you find is that over and over and over again the Bible confirms everything it says. It is actually phenomenal. The understanding only comes from the spirit. Jesus gave us the timeline yet 90% of modern evangelicals do not believe what Jesus said. This tells me two things. 1.) they are being misled. 2-) if the pastor says it it must be true. 3.) repeating a prayer does not get you saved. There is nothing a person can do in their own will or power to enter the kingdom of Christ. One must simply turn from self and turn to God. You wouldn’t believe this talking to most “Christian’s. You would think self is the only thing people think about. Sad reality. Most professing Christian’s are not born of the spirit. Now back to understanding scripture. The number one thing to always remember is context. The Who, what, where , when, why, and how. Ask it with every verse you read. Who wrote it, who are they speaking to, when and what was the time of writing and the customs of that time. Once you do this and realize it is written mostly in chronological order then whe you read revelation it becomes clear. It opened my eyes when I realized everything I have ever been taught is a lie. Government was not my first awakening. The church was. Once I woke to that I became the biggest conspiracy theorist I know. I am a fundamentalist when it comes to church. I don’t like titles. Baptist, Methodist, ect. I believe it all started with Constantine and his desire to keep Rome in power. They were loosing control of the people due to this, “Jesus” speak and they couldn’t have it. So Rome adopted it as a state religion and added paganism in order to appease and control the masses. History is long l, but you can see the same evil then as now. The difference is we are starting to enter a period of time where the beast will wage war on the saints and most are not prepared if even saved. They have been taught that Jesus gonna rapture you out so you don’t have to face the devils wrath. False. It’s Gods wrath we are safe from, not satans. Persecution is another word for tribulation. Why would there be tribulation or persecution of the saints if all the saints disappeared. It makes no sense and people just write it off as, “revelation is too scary to understand, but I know what my pastor says and he said if I give him more money then God will give me 100 fold and I’m gonna get to buy me a nice car with a fancy house and live my best life now in prosperity cause Jesus wants me to enjoy all the pleasures of this world.” That is 100% antithetical to scripture. Jesus said be seperate. Hate the world and all the things in it. We are not of this world. We have been born again a new creature. We are to worship the creator not the creation. Food for thought fren!
The reality is the more you seek God the more likely you WILL be persecuted.
Seeking the truth is worth whatever the cost.
When Christ spoke of the abomination of desolation in Matthew, he’s talking to Jews.
How do we know this? He instructs His listeners to pray that their flight from the abomination not take place on the sabbath. Christians don’t observe the sabbath as Christ is our sabbath per Hebrews.
The church is the bride of Christ. In the Jewish wedding traditions that early Christians would have been familiar with, the bride makes herself ready for the groom to come take her without knowing when he’ll arrive. If this analogy holds, then why would Christ let His church go through the Tribulation, which is tantamount to the groom abusing his bride before the marriage? Why would Christ let His church endure His wrath when He’s already paid for their sin?
Short answer - Tribulation is what man does to Christ's bride, Not the wrath of God. Jesus said Himself that we would see persecution for His name's sake, and Revelation confirms this.
If you would like, I will provide a more detailed answer.
Part of the confusion here is that "tribulation" is used in two different senses. Yes, the church does go through tribulation here on earth, though I try to use persecution instead to avoid confusion. The Tribulation, the contents of Revelation 6-19, is notably different from the kind of persecution that Christ said the church would go through.
The difficulty I have with that position is two fold, but voted you up anyway for explaining it clearly.
(1) Many times people blame God for natural disasters, when we people have not followed God's principles for stewardship of creation. Some of the seals (woes) here can now be accomplished by evil men. Also, when the first plagues hit Egypt, both the Israelites and the Egyptians delt with the consequences of them.
Revelation 11 is the first time we see anyone trustworthy mention the wrath of God: (the 24 Elders) 15 - 18
and the harvest of souls occurs afterward,
Rev, 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, (Hint! and a big one!) having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Also in revelation he was speaking to gentiles when he spoke of the abomination. So there’s that.
While Revelation uses the word "abomination", the book does not directly reference the abomination of desolation.
Revelation, Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and other prophetic books have to be taken together to construct the Tribulation timeline.
Yeah and they give it exactly. 3.5 years in after the the abomination the sun and moon are darkened the dead in Christ rise and all who are alive and remain are caught up (transformed in the blink of an eye). It’s always the same. Then a period of about 75 days takes place. If not for Christ shortening those days then no flesh would be saved. It is appointed once for man to die!
Acts 2:20 mentions the sun going dark and the moon turning to blood before the Day of the Lord, but that is not the Rapture. The Day of the Lord is when Christ comes back at the end of the Tribulation, which logically requires the Rapture to happen first. References in the gospels and Revelation to the sun going dark place it during the Tribulation, and don’t give a direct time frame between this event and the Rapture. They don’t even definitely say that the Sun going dark comes first. Of course in my view the Rapture happens first; a full list of arguments can be found in the links that I provided earlier.
I also still can’t find your 75 days. Daniel 12:11-12 gives the closest number, but it’s still not 75. It gives 1,290 days between the Abomination being set up and the Temple being cleanses, then says that those who make it to 1,335 days after the Abomination are blessed. I’m my view the 1,335 day is the Day of the Lord, when AntiChrist is defeated and the Millennial Kingdom is established. It’s still a difference of 45 days, not 75. And since Daniel uses days instead of years or months in its calculations, these numbers don’t change depending on what calendar you use.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEmijWNNU32ppOxxGZYr1AArvhjgChQFl
75 comes from the fact that they did not use an American calendar in those days. It’s all in revelation and Daniel. Plain as day. Chronological order. And confirmed in many other scriptures that the timeline is flawless. It is exact every time. Sun and moon first! Pay attention when reading in context. Don’t take pastor bobs word for it. It blew my mind when I realized it. It’s what originally woke me up. Use a Jewish calander and add up the days mentioned and you will see exactly to the week what will take place. It’s not distorted by a people, it is distorted by false teachers who lack study. I am not claiming you to be this I am just saying, I once was lost and now I am found. Was blind but now I see. I studied for myself and took all preconceived notions and traditions out. I found out that the old fundamentalist have it right. The old fire and brimstone preachers were right up until the corporate mega seminaries too over in the 16-1700’s. It’s always been about control. It is the enemies forte. You control people by telling them they can do whatever they want and if they will just repeat a little prayer all their dreams will come true. It is another gospel!
The old fundamentalists generally subscribed to the pre tribulation pre millennial position. Including some of the oldest church fathers like Iraneus.
Mid Trib, post Trib, a millennial, and post millenial are all positions invented later and/or adopted by denominations with other doctrinal problems (Catholics, Anglicans, LDS, etc).
In either case, none of the alternate views of eschatology constitute another gospel in and of themselves. A post Tribulation a millennial can preach the gospel just as accurately as a premillennial pre Trib preacher. Salvation is still by grace through faith in Jesus Christ no matter how future events shake out.
Oh here we go with Matthew preaching to Jews. Yes Matthew was written to Jew, but this book was written to Christian converts. When Christ instructs John to write to the churches in revelation he speaks of those he saw at the alter crying how long until God avenges their blood on earth. The angel tells them to wait until the rest of the martyrs are killed. Why would Christ say the sun and moon should be darkened first? Only for the Jews? He came to his own and they received it not. The same is repeated over and over that we would see the abomination. It is in the Old Testament as well as the new. This timeline never changes. It is the same in all the books mentioned. You are to overcome the flesh. Not expect God to save your flesh. It is spiritual. When you are changed in the blink of an eye then you will see. When the veil of flesh is lifted and you realize that we were created from the earth and will remain with the earth in the flesh. It is appointed once for man to die after this is the judgment. We will die. We have to. If I use your logic then why has Christ allowed the persecution of his church ( Bride) as long as he has already? Because the martyrs are waiting on the rest of us. They are asleep waiting for Christ to raise them from the dead. Then those who are alive and remain are transformed in the blink of an eye. Once the antichrist declares all who hold the testimony of Christ to be put to death it is said that if Christ dosnt shorten those days then no flesh would be saved. This is in a time span of about 75 days after the abomination. The Jews who have claimed him as the messiah will realize they were wrong. War is waged at that point on Jews and Christian’s because it is at that point they realize that Jesus was their messiah and because of the two witnesses many will get saved. But it’s about 75 days until Christ and the saints following him unleash hell on earth as they pour out The Wrath of God on all who took the mark and worshiped the beasts image. Jewish calendar and parallel scripture confirms this timeline over 20 biblically. Christ told us they would kill is because they hate him!
I didn't say the whole book of Matthew was only for Jews, I said that in that specific conversation in Matthew 24 Christ is speaking to a Jewish audience, which we know because He mentions the observation of the sabbath.
Revelation doesn't mention the martyrs until chapter 6, which is after the Tribulation starts. Furthermore it doesn't specify when those martyrs were killed. Lastly, many Israelites during the Tribulation will be saved only to be persecuted and martyred by the Antichrist. None of this conclusively indicates that the church goes through the Tribulation.
I also don't see where Christ says that the sun and the moon must be darkened before the abomination. Could you provide a reference?
"He came unto His own and His own received Him not" has already been fulfilled, hence why the phrase is in the past tense. No relevance to end times prophecy.
You are conflating the metaphorical meaning of "flesh" referring to our sin nature with the literal meaning of God saving us from His Wrath.
Because the persecution that the church has encountered thus far is not the Wrath of God. Only the Tribulation gets that moniker.
According to Daniel 12:12 there is going to be approximately three and a half years from the time the abomination is set up to the time it is abolished. Not sure where you're getting 75 from.
The two witnesses start their ministry toward the beginning of the Tribulation, being executed and resurrected shortly before or right as the abomination is set up, which is the halfway point of the 7 year Tribulation. You are correct that many, Jew and Gentile alike, will still have the opportunity to get saved.
Tribulation is another word for persecution not wrath.
Tribulation is sometimes used in scripture to refer to general persecution, but in modern vernacular the word tribulation is almost always associated with the 7 year period dominated by the Antichrist. Furthermore the Bible itself makes a distinction between general persecution and the Tribulation. Revelation says that this period will be worse than any other period or any other type of persecution in history, and as you have rightly pointed out, it will be so bad that if allowed to continue it would wipe out all life on earth.
When I remember to do so I’ll capitalize Tribulation to refer to the 7 years before the Day of the Lord, and persecution to refer to, well, the persecution that Christians encounter during the church age. That should eliminate any confusion.
Ci Scofeild reference Bible! That’s where that teaching came from.
What if the tribulation, 2nd coming, millenial reign already happened shortly after Jesus said it would "come to pass shortly?" What if we are in Rev 20 after Satan was loosed to deceive the world and waiting on the New Earth? We have been lied to about so much of our history. Question everything!
This is something I have been thinking as well. I go back and forth between partial preterism and we are now in the end times.
The 'short season' theory would explain the rush of the mid 1800s to date to destroy technologies and architectures that may have been creates during Christs reign.
This!! Dispensationalism, pretrib rapture are all modern "christian" thought. I consider myself a partial preterist (meaning most of revelations was already fulfilled during the early church period along with the destruction of the temple in ad70, Christ is actually reigning, and will return in final judgment at the end of time). Regarding the millennium I've yet to decide post vs amil. Post mil is more positive, so I'd lean that way honestly
I agree. There is always a possibility but i know that if per chance Donald Trump starts demanding we take a mark then i merely dont take it and become a martyr.
The signs are pretty straight forward and those who love and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ are not afraid of death like those who whose hearts are fulled with fear and doubts.
It's as the addage goes... God Wins!
Because multiple OT prophecies talk about the millennial reign, with proclamations that Jesus will reign from Jerusalem and that the lion will lie with the lamb.
As far as I’m aware, neither of those things has occurred yet. Satan should be bound for the entire time period of 1,000 years and unable to deceive the nations, but it seems clear to me that he has had free rein to do so for all of recorded history.
Lastly, the specific events surrounding the Tribulation have not been precisely replicated by historical events. Some people try to make Antiochus IV the Antichrist because he desecrated the Temple, but the duration of his desecration does not match the time period given in Daniel for the Abomination of Desolation.
I don’t think any of the events in Revelation after the letters to the 7 churches has happened yet. We’re still waiting for the trumpet.
In the pamphlet above, it would be MOST informative if we knew either (1) actual dates, or failing that, at least (2) a date this was published. Maybe the pamphlet is a year old....maybe 5....or 10 or 20. Who knows? As it is, it exists in a vacuum that is impossible to interpret.
This is not accurate.. The book of revelation is mind bending, however this timeline shows “we are here” just before the 6th trumpet. There are 7 seals followed by 7 trumpets followed by 7 bowls of wrath. The two witnesses begin their ministry at the opening of the seals (scrolls). Not after the trumpets. Also, after the 1000 years, satan is released once more for final judgement and then is thrown into the lake of fire. It’s not a massive read if you start at chapter 4.
Christians will be killed for the cause of Christ. And pastors are not warning people to strengthen their faith. It’s coming and if you cannot see the birthing pains of this then you might need to wake up. Not you op but anyone in general. Christianity is under attack like back in the Roman days. It’s only going to get worse. And no DJT is not going to save us. I hate this world. It is a miserable lonely place full of crooks looking to take advantage. A roaring lion seeking who’s he may devour. We are a bunch of sheep in the midst of wolves. Come Lord Jesus Come Yeshua!
The abomination (that leads to) Desolation was the rejection of Gods plan through His son Jesus. They rejected His plan and continued to offer sacrifices in the temple. The desolation of the temple took place in 70ad.
If they were to build another temple as many say that temple would also be an abomination. Because once again they have completely rejected Gods plan.
Christians; We really should consider why things like this are pushed. In Daniel 9 we read about the seventy sevens. The last seven has been twisted to produce ideas like this pamphlet.
The truth is the last seven was Jesus and His ministry. Jesus started His ministry after he was baptized. (the end of the 69th seven).
There is no 2000 year gap between the 69th seven and the 70th seven. That idea is just nonsense.
Daniel 9 24 Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR people to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy.
The Seventy Sevens were about the Jews (your people) not the world.
Jesus fulfilled all of that.
In Daniel 9 verse 27 we read
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.
Jesus ministry lasted 3 1/2 years. Then he died and rose again. THAT ENDED THE SACRIFICE AND OFFERING. The temple sacrifice and offering that continued after that point WAS the abomination. That abomination lead to the temple being destroyed in 70ad.
For 3 1/2 years after Jesus rose the gospel only went to the Jews. That completed the seventy seven.
Right after that Peter had a vision of the sheet with the unclean animals. That is when the gospel went out to everyone. (Acts 10).
I know this is not what is taught in "Christian" books and churches. Just consider who you trust and why you trust them. (that includes what I wrote here).
The Abomination of Desolation does not refer to Jews continuing to make sacrifices after the crucifixion.
Daniel makes it clear that the Antichrist, who sets up the abomination, is not himself an Israelite, but a foreigner (possibly Syrian or Turkish) who makes a deal with Israel for 7 years. He betrays Israel halfway through and sets up the abomination for 3.5 years, after which Christ returns and judges the nations. Then the millennial kingdom, then eternity.
By your timeline we should already be in eternity with no sin.
If your interpretation were correct, which historical figure made a 7 year deal with Israel during Jesus ministry? Why did Jewish sacrifices continue for nearly 30 years after the crucifixion, rather than the 3.5 years given by Daniel?
the seventy sevens where for Daniels people ONLY. You can see that in Daniel 9:24
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people.
verses 24-25 talk about the first 69 "sevens" or weeks.
verse 26 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[g] the footnote (g) reads... Daniel 9:26 Or death and will have no one; or death, but not for himself.
The rest of verse 26 The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood:
We see that is history. The ruler who came after Jesus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70ad. That temple had become an abomination because the people rejected The Living God and His son.
Verse 27 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.
There is no where is scripture where it says that anyone other than God confirms a covenant. Jesus confirmed the covenant. In the middle of that Seven he died and rose. At That point any sacrifice at the temple would be a rejecting of the new covenant. That is what the abomination was.
3 1/2 years after Jesus started his ministry he was "cut off" 3 /12 year after that the gospel when only to the Jews. That ended the 70 sevens.
Galatians 3:28 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Scripture makes it clear that as far as God is concerned there is no longer a separation between Jew or Gentile.
There are a people today that call themselves Jews but they are most likely not blood related in the Jews of the bible.
If they decide to build a temple the only reason they are doing that is because they have rejected the gospel. That temple would be a pagan temple.
I am not looking to get people upset here. I know full well that this is a touchy subject. I have my suspicions as to why a certain idea is pushed about this subject in scripture.
It's political, I will leave it at that.
...By your timeline we should already be in eternity with no sin.
By my timeline we are in what the bible calls "the age to come" That is the age after the law was removed (70ad). The first century Christians were like the first Generation Jews that left Egypt. They wandered in the dessert for 40 years until a new generation came along. The first century Christians were still partially holding on to the law. 40 years after Jesus the temple was destroyed There are other parallels between the 40 years in the dessert and the 40 years before the temple was destroyed.
One of those parallels is this. Moses went up into the mountain and after 50 days came back with the Ten Commandments. The people were sinning and 3000 were put to the sword. Compare that to Jesus rising from the grave. 50 days later was the day of Pentecost when 3000 people were saved
2 Corinthians 5:21 Jesus became sin so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
When we trust God our sins are no longer counted against us. That is what it means when it says there is no more sin.
Here we see that a group of people shall destroy the city, with a prince coming afterwards from the same people. Who destroyed the Temple in 70 AD? They were led by a Roman general, but the soldiers were primarily Syrians or Turks. This indicates that Antichrist might be from one of those two groups.
From Hebrews and Paul we know that a testament is of no effect until the death of the testator. Ergo by your reckoning the 7 year final week wouldn't even start until the crucifixion. Either way the Temple was not eradicated either 3.5 or 7 years after the crucifixion. Having the crucifixion as either the start or the middle of the final week doesn't match Daniel at all.
The clearest interpretation is that Christ came at the end of the 69th week, with the church age being a "pause button" of sorts before the final week. Keep in mind OT prophecy completely overlooks the church age, as that is the time of the Gentiles and thus not relevant to the Jews.
Incorrect. Israel made a covenant with the Gibeonites (Joshua 9). David made a covenant with Jonathan (1 Samuel 18). In Exodus 23 God commands Israel to not make covenants with other gods, implying that they have the physical capability to do so (there wouldn't be a point to God telling you not to sin if you couldn't commit the sin in the first place). In 2 Kings 23:3 King Josiah made a covenant before the Lord. People make covenants in the Bible all the time. There's no reason to believe that the Antichrist is incapable of making a covenant, even if purely out of wicked mockery of God's covenant with Israel.
The age to come is used almost exclusively to refer to eternity, after sin is finally defeated and we live forever with Christ. Compare Mat. 12:32, Mark 3:28-30, Mark 10:30, Luke 20:34-36, Mat. 12:24-43, Eph. 1:21, and Col. 2:14. None of these passages make sense if "this age" means pre church age and "the age to come" means the church age.
Only some did, the Judaizers and those who fell prey to their false doctrine. This error was corrected by the Council of Jerusalem well before 70 AD. It was never a majority position or one held to by the Apostles.
You are right - do not trust what you have written.
You are right, outside of the bible do not trust what I or anybody else have written. Take the information and seek God for the truth. That is what we are called to do.
James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
So where does that put us? Were we just forgotten about?
No, we live in what the bible called the age to come.
An age where grace and forgiveness rules.
Free Will is our choice to believe what God said is true and walk in that. Or to allow our fears to eat away at what God freely gives us.
Daniel Chapter 9:24 says The Jews have seventy sevens to do six things. (notice this was written to the Jews not to the rest of the world) It was pointing to Jesus.
to finish transgression
to put an end to sin
3)to atone for wickedness
4)to bring in everlasting righteousness
5)to seal up vision and prophecy
Jesus has done all of that.
Jesus has brought in everlasting righteousness. Our sins are no longer counted against us.
That does not mean that we have lost our free will. We will always have free will. Some people seem to think that Jesus will return and we will no longer sin. Are they saying that we will no longer sin because free will was taken away? Or are they saying that because we see God we will not sin?
Adam and Eve were walking and talking with God and yet they sinned. Will we be any different then them?
Most say because we see God face to face, we will not sin. I would add, that our new nature will be completely put on at that time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9QdJZUJz8o (Petra, Grave Robber)
1 Cor.15:50 - 58
Adam and Eve saw God. Yet they sinned.
Our righteousness even with our new nature will never be enough. We will always have free will. With free will there will always be the ability to sin. The only lasting solution is the Grace of God. Where our sin is no longer counted against us. We are just called to trust in Him
Agreed, but we have a part to play, as well - Trusting enough to obey, not perfectly, (Yet!) but with a pursuit of Him that is whole hearted. We will have no desire to sin when the new heavens and the new earth come, and some will have no desire to sin even before that, when the event described in the passage quoted above comes to fruition.
When I talk about trusting God I am not talking about just saying some words. I mean trusting God. Let me try to explain.
Back in 1979 I was not a very good person. Just to keep this simple one moment I was not a believer the next moment I was. I did not know anything about church or what I was "supposed" to do. I did not "repent" by confessing my sins.
I spent the next couple of months reading the bible, praying and seeking God. I found that I did not want to lie or cheat because I knew it was not life. For me there was amazing joy just knowing that God was real and he loved me.
My girlfriend (who is now my wife) also became a Christian.
For the first month or so I didn't talk to anybody. Except my girlfriend. Not because I didn't want to but because I was seeking God every moment I had.
It may sound boring to you but it was the best time of my life. I was walking in pure joy.
Then I went to visit a friend that did not know what had happened with me. I knocked on his door. When he opened it he took a step back and say you're different, I want what you have. So he is also a Christian.
Then someone told me about Christian churches. Talk about being clueless. I just didn't know.
I go to church and I hear that in order to be a Christian I need to pray at least 15 minutes a day, Read my bible every day, Repent of my sins. On and On.
So I thought I was doing great. I easily prayed 15 minutes a day. I was always reading my bible. I wasn't sure if I repented the way I was "supposed" to. So I told God I was a sinner and asked Him to forgive my sins.
Things changed after that. Instead of praying because I wanted to be with God I was checking my watch to make sure I was praying for at least 15 minutes. I was checking how much time I was reading my bible.
In other words what was a joy became a law that I had to follow.
To keep it simple I was completely deceived. I don't blame anybody, it was my choice to be deceived. I look back now and I realize that I wanted to be sure that I was walking with God. I no longer trusted that He was speaking to me. Maybe I was making it all up.
I started to do more things for the church. We had a youth group that was growing fast. I poured my life into it What was really happening was not good. I replaced Loving God with repenting of my sins by doing good works. It all sounded holy and right.
A few years later I was falling apart on the inside. I wanted so much to be perfect in his eyes. I just couldn't do it. I failed at being perfect over and over.
Finally I just gave up. I told God that I couldn't follow Him anymore because I was a complete failure.
That is when I heard Him say, When did I tell you to do these things? Return to your first love.
So when I say that trusting God is all we need to be saved I am saying that from my understanding of trusting God instead of what we can do to be right with Him.
I understand, and in the sense you described, I agree. It all relies on grace.
So... Christ will not return, and we'll just be living in this nominal, depraved world and just be content with "grace"? I'm sorry, but I just don't follow.
We are called to Worship in Spirit and Truth. We have to question why do we think we need to See Him in order to worship Him?
I believe Jesus will return but not in flesh (Just to be clear He can do whatever He wants).
We were created to live in the Garden. My belief is that in some way we are returning to a garden. Just like the Garden of Eden.
I don't know how that will happen I just know that the 2,000 year gap is a money maker for the people that push it. It is also used to justify political things going on in the Middle East.
This is absolute rubbish and plainly concocted by someone who has not studied what the Bible actually says.
I do not know of a scripture which says there will be a great revival before the return of Christ in fact the opposite a great apostacy - falling away.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Satan banished from Heaven 3 1/2 years into the final 7 years??
"It is certain that Satan had fallen before Genesis 3 where the temptation of Adam and Eve is recorded. He fell before man fell; but whether he fell before or after man’s creation, we cannot say for certain." (ANGELS ELECT AND EVIL, by C. Fred Dickason, p. 135
https://www.biblesprout.com/articles/hell/satan-cast-heaven/
Yet from Job we see that Satan comes before the throne of God just as the other non fallen angels do. God strikes up conversation with him as if it’s not a rare occurrence. Satan was clearly allowed some level of access into heaven after his rebellion, possibly even on a regular basis.
Revelation 12 speaks of the war in heaven in which Satan is cast down to the earth, and this chapter lies squarely in the middle of the Tribulation period, after the seven trumpets, after the two witnesses, and before the Mark of the Beast is introduced.
To be fair, this is pretty much the one thing the chart gets right. Everything else makes no sense under a literal, chronological reading of Revelation and Daniel.
Yeah, I noticed that too.
I am not a bible expert but here is an interesting observation. The DS was supposed to have their new world all sorted by 2030 ( hence agenda 2030). In the grand scheme of timelines, an intended bad timeline has an equally opposite good time line. If that's the case, it sure puts us at an interesting point because that's right about 7 years until 2030. Food for thought.
It was agenda 21 as in century, hundred years, that’s why they r very patience. Agenda 2030 and Agenda 2050 are subdivisions of A21.
Look into Post Millennialism.
I personally think a covenantal Pre - millennial position is equally valid. (and in some ways even more so.)
https://www.gotquestions.org/historic-premillennialism.html
Most Reformed people hold a Post-Millennial view, but there are exceptions. https://www.monergism.com/critique-dispensational-premillennialism
https://www.historicism.com/
Many are amillennialists too, which can also lead to a positive fulfillment as with Post-mil.
Exactly. Doug Wilson has written a great little book on the subject titled, "when the Man Comes Around". Gary Demar can be helpful with his works, but he is leaning full preterist, which has always been considered heresy. Also James White, Apologia church have some great info, and there's a great podcast Eschatology Matters which may help as well.
The story of Joseph tells of a seven year time of prosperity before the famine in Egypt, so that may well be a factor in the Tribulation scenario.
I have one of these from each decade.
Pre Trib Rapture is in my view the most consistent interpretation of Scriptural prophecy.
https://barrysetterfield.org/Pre-Tribulation_Rapture.html
So then the timeline looks more like this:
https://barrysetterfield.org/Tribulation_Events_Timeline.html
Ok so I was reading several different things just this morning by different writers, where it says The mideast peace treaty….. according to what I read basically more places in the middle east including and most importantly the Palestinians MUST sign on to the peace accord this is what they attempted to do with the Abraham accords but I think it was not on Gods timeline yet so it didnt happen. Once that does happen then the process of building the 3rd temple can begin. This in turn is supposed to bring the Antichrist into the public because he will be one of the people who signs and the 7 years begins. As far as the rapture, I believe and it does speak of it in the bible but it is called Harpazo. I think you should pray and ask God to reveal to you what it is etc. http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/Definitions/Harpazo.html They are prepared to build the 3rd temple you can research further but one example. https://free.messianicbible.com/feature/the-temple-vessels-are-ready-for-the-rebuilding-of-jerusalems-third-temple/
From apparitions it has been stated that 7 years of tribulation begins with the Antichrists reign I think… he is walking the earth now but has yet to step onto the global stage. However thanks to prayers from people & Gods mercy that time has been shortened to 3 1/2 years the Antichrist will reign. Prior to this - there will be signs from God- everyone in the world (over the age of 7) will experience what their spiritual fate is if they were to face God- called The Warning all at the same time. Many will kill themselves & be in despair. Humanity will have 2 weeks with no evil influence to evangelize & try to save souls for God. After that 2 weeks the line will be drawn & christians will be martyred and hunted down. There will be a permanent sign in the sky for all to see (a luminous cross?) but science won’t be able to explain it. We are to separate ourselves as much from this world as we can during the Antichrists reign & God will provide us with what we need. Then when Christ comes we will be transfigured like he was - raised up body & soul and all the old shall die off. Humanity & earth need to be purified first so we can join the heavenly realm.
Over the age of 7. There is another docterine that cannot be found in scripture. Nowhere in the Bible is an age of accountability mentioned. What about the retarded? You think God would send them to hell at the age of 40? No offense just pointing out how easy it is to create docterine off man’s opinions. Sorry if that came of confrontational I meant no harm. All in love fren!
The age of 7 is believed to be the age of reason… when you can reason with a child. The mentally disabled will still experience The Warning- some may be healed. Gods the just judge so I have no idea who goes where 🤷♀️
Where is this taught in scripture? Chapter verse? I want to read it in the Bible.
This isn’t a biblical scripture- this is through the apparitions & messages given throughout the last few hundred years - from the Virgin Mary & Saints - like Fatima- Medjugorje-Garabandal to name a few - some verified - some not.
Mary’s dead. She’s in heaven with the father. She is not a deity. She is not omnipotent or omnipresent. She simply gave birth to God. Mary’s divinity is not taught in the Bible either.
Mary Lives - Christ broke the bondage of death. THAT is the Good News. Mary is the new Eve for the new heaven & earth- through her son Jesus Christ. She is not a diety- she is the mother of us all & deserves all respect & asks we seek her son Jesus as he is The Redeemer. Idk why people get upset with her. The Devil himself does too…
Mary lives in the spirit not in the flesh. And no there is nowhere in scripture that says she is the new Eve. She was the blessed mother of Jesus and as the rest of us, she was sinful. Only one was perfect. Only one was worthy. She was just a vessel to bring Christ into the world. Jesus never once put any focus on Mary in his ministry.
That would be paganism. False idols. There is no mediator between The father and the saint other than the Son. The papacy is not scripturally sound. In any shape or form. When comparing and contrasting with what scripture teaches I am told by the spirit to run from that teaching and to have nothing to do with it because it is another gospel. Paul would say it is accursed.
Mary is the mother of Jesus. Born without sin herself- she was the vessel God used to bring forth our Savior Jesus.
She was not without sin. That is nowhere to be found in scripture. Only one fulfilled Gods law and that was Jesus. She was as much a sinner as the rest of us.
Oh boy!😖
Think what you want but the messages throughout the ages are the same. And some of the children of Medjugorje are still alive … I’ll let you read about it on your own. https://www.medjugorje.ws/
I don't believe that God sends anybody to hell. That we do ourselves.
Example. Adam in the garden. God pours out His blessings on Adam. That is all Adam knows about God.
Adam sins and he hides from God. That is what we will all do unless we can accept the forgiveness He freely offers us.
Our unforgiven sin will compel us to hide in shame from God. In this life and the next. That is hell.
All we need to do is accept His forgiveness. We will always have free will. The freedom to accept His forgiveness or not.
Like you posted I am not trying to piss people off here. This is just food for thought.
Thank you. Yes this is the right way to put it. We send ourselves by rejecting God. Thanks again.
Understood, but respectfully disagree. Acts 1: 6 - 9
(He Himself had promised they would reign over the twelve tribes of Israel: Luke 22: 29 - 30:
Acts 1: 7 - 9
Sorry but I disagree Mary is told that Jesus would sit on the throne of His fatehr David - David's throne was a physical one.
Revelation 5 we read that we will reign with Christ on the earth.
Daniel 2 the stone cut without hands (Jesus) a kingdom which will fill the whole earth.
Luke 1:30-32 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him** the throne of His father David.**
Revelation 5:9-10 And have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God; **and we shall reign on the earth.” **
Daniel 2:35 the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
fair enough. I'll check it out when I have access to a computer again. I will be on/off-line for about a week + or - for family emergency.
Thank you for praying!
The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are not the same thing.
The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom, namely the church. That kingdom is in effect now.
But there will be a future kingdom of heaven where Christ reigns physically on earth, which will be fulfilled during the millennium after the Tribulation.
OT prophecy focuses on this millennial reign and overlooks the church age, because the church age is coincident with the times of the gentiles.
Regarding the antichrist deceiving people during the millennium, this is impossible as he will be in the lake of fire and Satan will be bound after the Tribulation. Revelations indicates that the millennium is after the Tribulation, so these two players will be out of commission. Satan is only briefly released toward the end of this period, and the Antichrist is not released from the lake of fire at all.
No - try Revelation 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
This! And listening to dispensationalists today they are driving just as hard for the establishment of the third temple, which if they are right will lead to the utter destruction of the temple and Judaism as it stands in the face of Jesus Christ the Messiah. It would be another blatant rejection of Christ, making the whole endeavor part of an anti-christ agenda
I completely agree. If you get a chance read the other comment I just posted on this and tell me what you think.
I will look them over.
I was thinking about the verse from 2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
I know there is a big fight over how old the earth is. I am not going to get into that. Just consider this.
Creation took 6 days (God rested on the 7th) According to the Bible creation happened 6 thousand years ago. So we are about to enter the 7th day (thousand years) of rest.
Revelation 20 we read about the ancient serpent who will be bound for 1000 years. So that he can no longer deceive the nations.
Q talked about this being bibical. Could The Great Awakening really be the 1000 years where evil no longer controls the nations as Revelations 20 states.