Gasoline, at least in the amounts found in the average civilian vehicle, isn’t necessarily as forcefully explosive as movies and popular culture would have one believe. It’ll blow up under the right conditions certainly. But not usually with the amount of force necessary to make it externally obvious the vehicle exploded.
Gas is one of those things that tends to flare up. Versus violently explode. And typically the total explosive failure of a Gas Tank, ergo a violent explosion, is rare. Usually there’s a weak spot like a Gas Cap that will give into pressure build up first. Once that pops. There’s a space for fumes to vent. Fumes can vent=No explosion.
And as far as I was aware. Most Modern vehicle Gas Tanks are typically engineered with just such an eventuality in mind. IE there’s usually a part on the Tank, like the Gas Cap, that will deliberately fail in order for fumes to vent and prevent such an explosion if certain conditions are meant. Like the vehicle being on fire.
Though I fully admit I maybe wrong. The above was learned during a conversation with a chemistry teacher about why some exploding vehicles in some movies are unrealistic. Not via personal knowledge or experience.
Plus your assuming that the tanks remained sealed long enough to allow the pressure to build up for the dramatic explosion. If they melted and or were otherwise breached. The fumes could vent which wouldn’t lead to an explosion.
Movie car gas tank explosions are done with explosives and petrol in the car.
Microwave DEW could heat the cars and not the trees or plastic playground equipment.
Getting the tires to light on fire is far more sus than whatever may be happening to the fuel. As I stated in this thread with response to the drone footage contained within:
@4:00: A Huge tree (Oak?) is not even singed sitting right next to a building that is not singed. Right next to the tree are cars with melted tires. What melted the tires? There is no apparent nearby fuel source for these cars to catch fire....
There are several other examples throughout the video of melted cars/tires on the edge of destruction that are very suspicious. There are cars just out in the middle of nowhere, not next to a burnt structure, that are themselves burnt to a crisp. It takes a lot to melt a car (or even have it deform from the heat). It needs to be in an oven. Such an oven can conceivably be created in the middle of a street with buildings burning on both sides, but not on the edge of a street, or the middle of a parking lot, sitting next to unburnt trees.
Tires are not particularly flammable in that they need to be heated to 750 degrees Fahrenheit (400 Celsius) for several minutes in order to ignite. However, once they do catch fire, they can burn for a long time and produce some very toxic smoke.
How are they heated to that temperature when they are next to non-burning trees and 30 to 50+ feet away from any other possible heat source? The temperature needs to be sustained for several minutes. How is that temperature sustained for minutes, in the middle of nowhere, without a heat source, open to air?
If the temperature is hotter than the required lowest temp (750F), it doesn’t have to be sustained for as long. Indeed, if you give the input source enough energy like say, a super high powered microwave laser, you could ignite a car tire in seconds. Notably microwaves preferentially heat up metal, like aluminum wheels, or steel car frames, which can then transfer that energy to the tires. Microwave lasers would probably also transfer a fair bit of energy to the steel belts in tires. DEWs, if they exist, are almost certainly microwave lasers.
I'm not sure why you think that it would. There are three ingredients required for combustion. Oxygen, gas, and heat. But that's just to burn. To explode you also need pressure to build up with a force stronger than the container (in this case a steel tank).
So just to burn, you need to get enough heat and oxygen into the gas tank. Heat shouldn't be a problem if cars are melting (though it does require a rather high heat for gas to ignite at 540F), but gas tanks are designed to be reasonably airtight, so not a lot of oxygen going into the system. If they do get oxygen in, then it will start to burn, but if oxygen is getting in, that means air is getting in, and if air is getting in, there is a hole. If there is a hole then there is a way for the pressure to release. Thus burning, no exploding.
Lack of oxygen and no spark inside the tank. If the tank was violently ruptured so the gas could pour out, then yes there would be a flare up of gas pooling up on the ground. but a burst & explosion is unlikely as the vehicles are designed to mitigate that scenario in an accident.
The theory is the steel belts in the tyres heat from microwaves. We saw canvas belted tyres in the California fires didn’t burn next to steel belted ones.
I was thinking it might be aluminum wheels v. steel wheels, but that's certainly a solid theory worth digging into. It could even be a combination of both. At the least, it would be an interesting dig to get some statistics on.
What might be happening is that as the gasoline gasifies under the heat, the pressure blows out the gas cap and then the gasoline flares out of that vent.
Only gasoline fumes explode under pressure, not the fuel itself. The seams in a gas tank would fail under heat/pressure stress, leaking the fuel out. No containment, therefore, no pressure -- and no explosion.
Most tanks are plastic. And there is usually a good amount of explosive fumes in the tank. Think of it like a rubber balloon. The point is that these fires are not natural. It’s impossible.
That was my point. By the time any combustible material gets in the tank to set off whatever small amount of fumes exist, the seams have already failed. This is one of the reasons gasoline is used for cars, because the systems designed for it are relatively safe from explosion. You might get a brief, small "pop" as the tank fails, but you need pressure for a large explosion.
Typically the gas will not explode but it can burn for some time but will burn off quickly fren. I am a mechanic also. Rmemeber fren thanks to the EPA these systems are sealed and every so often the evap system will open to burn off excess vapors. Cars will not typically explode when on fire, there maybe a flash for a second or two but will resume in just burning. You can throw a match into a bucket of gas and actually have it put the match out because it is the vapor that actually burns/ignites do you remember when consumer reports got caught using a device to ignite the fuel in the old chevy trucks that had the gas tank on the outside of the frame rails?
Was the pavement burning? Cause I would think that tires would need to be sitting on something that was burning before they just ignite. I know in brush fires at home tires have to be deeper into the brush to get the temp high enough for them to burn
750 degrees will ignite a rubber tire. The tire is full of air (oxygen). As soon as the fire punctures the side wall, it's all over. The pavement does not need to be on fire.
Tanks are plastic. If the tires burn the tank will melt. Only few vehicles have metal tanks and they are usually antiques. I have pulled many tanks out to change pumps. The tanks would melt right along with the tires. But they arn’t.
Gasoline, at least in the amounts found in the average civilian vehicle, isn’t necessarily as forcefully explosive as movies and popular culture would have one believe. It’ll blow up under the right conditions certainly. But not usually with the amount of force necessary to make it externally obvious the vehicle exploded.
Gas is one of those things that tends to flare up. Versus violently explode. And typically the total explosive failure of a Gas Tank, ergo a violent explosion, is rare. Usually there’s a weak spot like a Gas Cap that will give into pressure build up first. Once that pops. There’s a space for fumes to vent. Fumes can vent=No explosion.
And as far as I was aware. Most Modern vehicle Gas Tanks are typically engineered with just such an eventuality in mind. IE there’s usually a part on the Tank, like the Gas Cap, that will deliberately fail in order for fumes to vent and prevent such an explosion if certain conditions are meant. Like the vehicle being on fire.
Though I fully admit I maybe wrong. The above was learned during a conversation with a chemistry teacher about why some exploding vehicles in some movies are unrealistic. Not via personal knowledge or experience.
Plus your assuming that the tanks remained sealed long enough to allow the pressure to build up for the dramatic explosion. If they melted and or were otherwise breached. The fumes could vent which wouldn’t lead to an explosion.
It’s the fumes that are explosive, not the lg
Fumes venting into the atmosphere is different than fumes in an enclosed location.
Oxygen is explosive too, yet detonating nuclear weapons didn't destroy our atmosphere as some scientists feared. Because there's more to it than that.
Exactly you could throw a match into a bucket of gas and it could actually put the match out
Movie car gas tank explosions are done with explosives and petrol in the car. Microwave DEW could heat the cars and not the trees or plastic playground equipment.
Getting the tires to light on fire is far more sus than whatever may be happening to the fuel. As I stated in this thread with response to the drone footage contained within:
@4:00: A Huge tree (Oak?) is not even singed sitting right next to a building that is not singed. Right next to the tree are cars with melted tires. What melted the tires? There is no apparent nearby fuel source for these cars to catch fire....
There are several other examples throughout the video of melted cars/tires on the edge of destruction that are very suspicious. There are cars just out in the middle of nowhere, not next to a burnt structure, that are themselves burnt to a crisp. It takes a lot to melt a car (or even have it deform from the heat). It needs to be in an oven. Such an oven can conceivably be created in the middle of a street with buildings burning on both sides, but not on the edge of a street, or the middle of a parking lot, sitting next to unburnt trees.
The melted tires are themselves SUPER sus.
According to this fire fighter website:
How are they heated to that temperature when they are next to non-burning trees and 30 to 50+ feet away from any other possible heat source? The temperature needs to be sustained for several minutes. How is that temperature sustained for minutes, in the middle of nowhere, without a heat source, open to air?
If the temperature is hotter than the required lowest temp (750F), it doesn’t have to be sustained for as long. Indeed, if you give the input source enough energy like say, a super high powered microwave laser, you could ignite a car tire in seconds. Notably microwaves preferentially heat up metal, like aluminum wheels, or steel car frames, which can then transfer that energy to the tires. Microwave lasers would probably also transfer a fair bit of energy to the steel belts in tires. DEWs, if they exist, are almost certainly microwave lasers.
Yes but what is keeping the fuel in the tanks from exploding?
I'm not sure why you think that it would. There are three ingredients required for combustion. Oxygen, gas, and heat. But that's just to burn. To explode you also need pressure to build up with a force stronger than the container (in this case a steel tank).
So just to burn, you need to get enough heat and oxygen into the gas tank. Heat shouldn't be a problem if cars are melting (though it does require a rather high heat for gas to ignite at 540F), but gas tanks are designed to be reasonably airtight, so not a lot of oxygen going into the system. If they do get oxygen in, then it will start to burn, but if oxygen is getting in, that means air is getting in, and if air is getting in, there is a hole. If there is a hole then there is a way for the pressure to release. Thus burning, no exploding.
Lack of oxygen and no spark inside the tank. If the tank was violently ruptured so the gas could pour out, then yes there would be a flare up of gas pooling up on the ground. but a burst & explosion is unlikely as the vehicles are designed to mitigate that scenario in an accident.
The theory is the steel belts in the tyres heat from microwaves. We saw canvas belted tyres in the California fires didn’t burn next to steel belted ones.
I was thinking it might be aluminum wheels v. steel wheels, but that's certainly a solid theory worth digging into. It could even be a combination of both. At the least, it would be an interesting dig to get some statistics on.
What might be happening is that as the gasoline gasifies under the heat, the pressure blows out the gas cap and then the gasoline flares out of that vent.
Only gasoline fumes explode under pressure, not the fuel itself. The seams in a gas tank would fail under heat/pressure stress, leaking the fuel out. No containment, therefore, no pressure -- and no explosion.
Most tanks are plastic. And there is usually a good amount of explosive fumes in the tank. Think of it like a rubber balloon. The point is that these fires are not natural. It’s impossible.
That was my point. By the time any combustible material gets in the tank to set off whatever small amount of fumes exist, the seams have already failed. This is one of the reasons gasoline is used for cars, because the systems designed for it are relatively safe from explosion. You might get a brief, small "pop" as the tank fails, but you need pressure for a large explosion.
Plastic gas tanks probably doesn't help.
Yeah but there are no signs of vehicles exploding. Just burning. Weird hu?
Typically the gas will not explode but it can burn for some time but will burn off quickly fren. I am a mechanic also. Rmemeber fren thanks to the EPA these systems are sealed and every so often the evap system will open to burn off excess vapors. Cars will not typically explode when on fire, there maybe a flash for a second or two but will resume in just burning. You can throw a match into a bucket of gas and actually have it put the match out because it is the vapor that actually burns/ignites do you remember when consumer reports got caught using a device to ignite the fuel in the old chevy trucks that had the gas tank on the outside of the frame rails?
lit cigarette
Exactly
The tires burning off is a large part of it.
But how does the fuel not explode? Gas goes boom when contained and ignited. It goes 💥
Vehicles have a closed loop fueling system and no air is allowed inside of the system. Without oxygen fuel cannot ignite, burn or explode.
Was the pavement burning? Cause I would think that tires would need to be sitting on something that was burning before they just ignite. I know in brush fires at home tires have to be deeper into the brush to get the temp high enough for them to burn
750 degrees will ignite a rubber tire. The tire is full of air (oxygen). As soon as the fire punctures the side wall, it's all over. The pavement does not need to be on fire.
But a 750 deg flame has to get that close to the tire and if it’s sitting on pavement where did the flame come from
Tanks are plastic. If the tires burn the tank will melt. Only few vehicles have metal tanks and they are usually antiques. I have pulled many tanks out to change pumps. The tanks would melt right along with the tires. But they arn’t.
Just think back to 9/11, same burned out cars. Same weapon I expect.