I work with federal agencies. I have many colleagues and friends who are in federal agencies. There are MANY good people working for the federal gov. In fact, I'd venture a guess that an overwhelming majority of them are.
Randomly firing 200K fed employees just because they were the most recent to be hired is not a good idea. There is so much wreckage with this approach.
Why not give an EO that states that each manager needs to eliminate 5% of their staff? And give them a thirty day deadline and if they don't do it then axe them. Or some formula like that.
I just see the benefit of slash and burn tactics. There are so many other ways to approach reduction in force. And to assume that all fed gov employees are part of the problem is just an embarrassing assumption. Trump is the President, so I lay this approach on him.
Fed jobs have had 100% job security my entire life. The rest of the world has to produce actual value and has almost 0 job security. The fact many of these workers have no marketable skills in the “real world” is telling.
That being said, of course I sympathize with individual stories and lives upended. But, on a macro level, this has to stop decades ago. Second best option, it needs to stop right now.
I agree with your take. If someone worked as a landscaper, went skiing one weekend, and broke their arm, chances are - they would be let go when the boss had to find someone to fill his spot. That is the reality many of us face. Federal employees work in a bubble. They are coddled and spoon fed. Most people who choose that lifestyle are aware of this, and eagerly sign up for it, but in doing so, you are playing for a team that has you under contract.
I don't disagree. But I could have gotten to the same end goal in 30 days with much better effect.
Seniority rules,with the union.
Great point. Time to take down that corruption, too.
They want the new people to make them do all the work.
Unions should not be allowed in public sector jobs.
Agree. They just raise money for commies and don't even help their members.
Are we sure what the end goal is? What if it's a 50 percent reduction in staff? I'm not confident that these cuts are the end but really just the beginning.
Doesn't help that 1,000,000 civilian fed jobs have been added since 2019. Holy bloated workforce Batman. Was that just federal worker UBI to cover the true calamity of the nature of the job market?
We lost what 200k small businesses during covid lockdowns? Employers learned to work with less, cutting travel, other benefits and of course staff. We got people in ever increasing numbers working from home blissfully, it would seem, unaware that if their job can be done from their living room, can it not be done virtually anywhere in the world for less?
Big changes are coming no doubt. I think maybe getting laid off first could give you a jump when much deeper cuts come.
I guess we will have to see how this all shakes out. Energy, construction, military might be safe bets , for now.
Good point on the numbers. With just a little bit of time and effort they could find the good ones to keep.
Absolutely valid. One way or another we will probably end up with a pretty talented group at the end. It's painful no doubt. Sorry for your friends, a tough business.
Gotta disagree on this one.
When you are letting go of as much as 95% of the workforce, it doesn't matter if the noobies go first. Almost everyone has gotta go, this is a good place to start. For those new ones, better they don't have the taint of working for the corrupt fed longer than needed, it may very well help their job prospects in the long run.
If my business runs into any former federal employees, you think i'm going to be jumping up and down to hire them?
President Trump is only getting started. USAID had 14,000 employees by itself. IF it stays open, they were already saying it may only take ~295 employees to run all the legitimate business of the agency. If that.
Who said he is getting rid of 95 percent?
Run the numbers. Last est. Was 2.3 million federal employees. Look at how many employed at each agency and how many are being fired. Likewise look at the agencies projected to get closed. When the President supposed only 50% of the federal workforce to the press, I don't think that was accurate, not at the pace we're going.
If anything that was to feed them a line, that it would be the starting point.
Quick easy example, Do you really think we need to keep the 80,000 extra IRS agents who were just hired for the express purpose of going after American citizens? Based on the facts coming down, there is a fairly good chance the IRS could be shut down in <4 years. Or at least drastically reduced in size.
50% is the starting point.
I think you are probably gonna be right.
The IRS is probably toast. No matter what happens regarding how we fund the government, taxing labor is probably not optimal. It's certainly a very cumbersome system. I've always favored taxing consumption. It's immediate, it's transparent, it doesn't punish labor, it's "green", obviously much easier to enforce, everyone has skin in the game, captures the vast underground economy and you could make an argument that it's " fair". I'm a CPA, taxes are a part of what I do but even I can't justify this insane system. I guess we will see.
Not to mention income tax is unconstitutional. Never should have been put in place.
Not just 80,000 new employees at the IRS, but 80,000 ARMED agents. Coming after you and me. Well, they would have been.
Had to happen.
Lots of people think they can do it better. Talk is cheap, especially in DC.
You probably could NOT A HAVE GONE THROUGH THE HELL President Trump did to even achieve the “opportunity” to do what he has done.
Totally missed the point.
You're right, I could not have gone through that hell. I never said I could have. Not sure what yourpoint was.
Then the outcome would not have been the same. Hence, you could not have done it at all. Their homes were not incinerated, or swept away by floods, or their family members killed by the evil genocidal Fauci protocols for COVID & subsequently the vaccines. Our government has betrayed us! They are lucky to only have lost their jobs!
We all have been fired or layed off at one time or another.
Good God! You think the recently hired 200K did all that? The ones hired to do needed jobs at the Meat animal research center? Really?
I believe it has to be this way. The federal government is a behemoth.
A behemoth that grew enormously under Biden.
https://x.com/marionawfal/status/1890920277791363537
I'm going to trust a Fed manager to fire staff?
The "manager" should be gone first
Yup - the vast majority of them will keep the worst and fire the best.
Your assuming that agency will still exist when it's all said and done.
No. Just going off of past experience and history of others who have shared their stories.
Granted, but this President's actions are unprecidented, IMO I think you may be surprised. A merit based system will go a ways to alleviate this issue.
I'm fine with a merit based system. My jobs have all been merit based, except for the fact that most of my bosses in the past played favorites. They couldn't deny the work I'd done or accomplished, or deny a merit based increase, but they could still siphon a little away to pay their buddies a little extra and make it sound like I was doing very well to get what I got. Since I knew the merit range, message received.....
Probably true. So fire them next, but do it wisely. And, yes, you can see if they got the job done, and if not, fore them and then do your cuts as you had promised. I just don't see why so many people are not understanding that if you have the power, you can wield it smartly.
I think the power has been yeilded very wisely. It has kept the left off balance
Like Biden? So many probationary (1 or 2 year probation terms) employees, Biden Administration was purposely bloating the employee count to submarine President Trump’s Second term. Biden’s Administration is the one RESPONSIBLE FOR USING AND HARMING THESE PEOPLE.
I don't disagree. They are twice victimized. That does not mean a more sensible approach could not have been taken. In fact, it means it should have.
I totally disagree. We were all spared Civil War. What side would the federal employees have been on?
You think that every fed employee would have been a FjB enthusiast? You sound as rabid as the lefties.
Well, in DC 93% of population vote Democrat.
I don't disagree. But there are federal agencies all over the country, and they are subjected to the same swamp-draining tactics applied in DC.
The Meat Animal Research Center is located in rural red Nebraska. Cannot get more red. This is a science and research center that helps develop our beef industry in miraculous ways. I know because I have friends who work there. They are always the stepchild and under-funded, and the fed employees always go above and beyond. They care. They just had to fire 17 very needed positions because those people were in the probationary period.
I look at this like math: if I can find one instance in which the solution/theory fails, then it must not be a great solution/theory. Probability suggests that there are more instances like this than not, due to the many types of federal workspaces all over the country. The swamp is in dC. Real work gets done all over the country. This approach doesn't care and fires the good along with the bad.
I wonder if there is a stat that shows what percent of the 200K worked in DC.
Our forefathers wanted a very small federal government. Damn near everything should be done at the state level. We are a republic of independent states and allowing the centralizing of all of these functions to the federal level is the primary reason corruption is so out of hand.
Again, I agree. There are better ways to get there, too.
Much of the corruption comes from the top of each agency telling the underlings what to do. Giving managers discretion to eliminate 5% of their staff, these managers would keep the ones conducting the corruption.
Don't take it personally, decreasing the size of government is one of the ways to decrease the size of the budget. There is not a corporation across the country that will hire anyone because the person needs a job. You don't start a coffee shop and then hire 10,000 people to run it.
If I got laid off from my current employer, I would go find another job, simple.
My suggestion, apply for another government position. After a background check, if your hands are clean, welcome back. If the opposite is true, bye bye biatch. FAFO
Well, you might be right. So, by eliminating the newbies you still haven't got rid of the evil upper management.
It was my understanding that Potato did some things to make it harder to fire govt employees. The newbies were still in probationary status which can be fired without cause. While he and his team look for a solution, he has definitely put the fear of God into those remaining and they may quit before he finds the way to do it without legal ramifications.
IMO, it is more that those agencies weren't getting it done with what they had, how are all the new hands going to help?
They were already so bloated, and fraction of the staff can do the job if they stuck to the core purpose.
That's not nearly enough. I went thru the Reduction in Force days of the military under Slick Willy. There were A LOT of good people that ended up out on their asses. My brother went thru it with [Hussein]. I saw a lot of guys that were awesome Sailors and Marines that survived the Clinton RIFs (there were two of them) end up getting shit canned out of the service under [Hussein], for no other reason than that they weren't "yes" men/women, or were coming up on retirement and weren't going to be promoted because they weren't going to put up with [Hussein]'s crazy, whacked out ideas of what a military should be. It was all under the label of a shit idea called "Perform to Serve." People with 4.5 and higher Evals were sent packing in favor of certain demographics that also happened to be shitty at their jobs. Which, I might add, is what happened to A LOT of workers in the Fed Govt under Clinton, W. Bush, and [Hussein].
In any good business reduction, it's on the employees to show their worth to the company. In the case of the U.S. Govt, it has been purposely and purposefully bloated beyond recognition. And, just because you know someone and think them to be good at what they do, unless you work directly with them or directly supervise them, you have no idea how they are as a productive member of a work force. Especially when it's a work force ride with redundant positions. Even more so with the advent of high capacity computing algorithms and now AI. A lot of people these positions getting eliminated are redundant, can be done more efficiently why an algorithm it with AI computing. And when quantum computing really gets going, a lot of the jobs left after this RIF will get and up being phased out, too. Which will save ALL OF US even more money.
The U.S. Govt has no business employing as many people as it does. The ROI for the American Taxpayer has been horrendous and needs to be turned around.
If your friends can show real value to the U.S. Govt and her People, then they should go out and prove it. Prove that the services they provide the American Taxpayer is worth the salary and benefits WE pay them. Otherwise, they can find work elsewhere. There's more than enough open job postings in the U.S., not to mention the rest of the world, so I'm sure they'll land on their feet somewhere and be just fine.
Which leads me to my next point. Where were you and your friends as you witnessed the bloat and bullshit continue to get worse? Did you all speak out and try to end it, or did you all keep your heads down so you could remain comfortably employed? Because it's clear to me that with the exception of a very, very, very, very small number of whistleblowers, the people working in the govt were more than happy enough to stay silent for a paycheck, even while their fellow Americans were being targeted by the very entity that employed you and your friends.
You call yourself changeagent, so be a TRUE agent of change.
Yes, I fight back againstthe bloat. I am also ethical.
You also assume that people know what is going on, when most are just doing their jobs.
I don't really disagree with you. My only point is that there are smarter and better ways to accomplish the same end. Slash and burn is lazy, egotistical, hurtful, and results in bad optics.
I disagree. The Trump team is hitting them from all sides at rapid speed to prevent them from circling the wagons and finding ways to slow him down. They have already tried, and they are being obliterated. The corrupt judges that put in place TROs are expose, and they will be brought down as well.
It had to be this way.
There are a lot of fed employees who are being fired who first are mad at Trump and then when they think about it mad at FJB for being so bad. There is no way that more than 20 percent of fed employees are evil/cabal. And most of them are in 3-letter agencies and easy to root out.
You sure about that? Do you have equivocal proof? The ranks of federal employees, including the military, have been systematically infiltrated with the evil/cabal. Many of the good people were fired, or they just quit. Of those that stayed...well... at Nuremburg it was determined that just following orders was not a defense. In other words, people stayed silent instead of speaking up. Those that did got crucified, but at least they had the balls. If you turn a blind eye for fear of losing your job, then you are just as guilty as they are.
Exactly this. How good are you at your job when your job is to keep the checks rolling even when it is obviously fraud? When it is painfully obvious your job is silly or unneeded?
When you've been to DC and see the employees there, and you've been to Crystal city and Pentagon city and you see what is going on, it's really hard to imagine, even though there are good people, they know what the score is, yet they are there anyways.
Are all bad? Course not. But a whole lot (most) are and EVERYONE knows what is going on. Turning a blind eye isn't an excuse.
Yeah, not with a 93% Democrat vote turn out.
Is it ethical to post how you could have done a better job?
What?
What does my post haveto do with being ethical or not? My post is constructive feedback.
Yes, I realize Iam sitting in the armchair, but it is obvious that there were other ways to acheive the similar end. I just don't understand why that is so hard for people to understand.
No.
unfortunately with all the Lefts lawfare bullshit, they have little choice but to strike hard and fast to get anything done.Through life i have been through downsizings,reorganizations, the buddy buddy system, echonomic layoffs, and the like so it is part of life of the working folk. Is there a better way to get it done maybe but we are not the ones running the show. what do they know (much more than we do) that we dont??
You do not pussy foot taken a band aide off. You rip that sucker off because it will only hurt just a second.
The fact you work for the Gov't tells me all I need for this post.
Lol, I don't work for the gov. You are as two-dimensional as most of the lefties we talk about.
Were they this compassionate towards DJT? They tried to imprison him, asasinate him. How many J6 prisoners, and grandmas included? How many went to jail, Steve Bannon, among other names. How many lives have they destrroyed? They even went through Melania's closet, undergarment drawers.. Barron's room. They never did this to Hunter. They let them get away with everything for decades.
So this is very KIND of DJT to not imprison these federal workers, the guilty ones and the ones who turn the other cheek.
I don't disagree. But I bet the 200K recently hired were not the ones unkind to him.
They weren't vetted properly and were hired DEI and democrat affiliates with shared lefty ideology imo..
Sauce on that?
I said in my opinion.. because they were hurriedly employed during Biden’s term in office for a reason.. to fill in as many spots with liberals before Trump gets in so they can continue their hold of the government through the staff.. you don’t think PresidentTrump has a legit reason for firing those people and don’t you think they already checked and know who’s who before sending out those letters? Also these positions are not needed at all, hence the department of govt efficiency.
Might I add Biden closed the pipeline on Day 1 leaving those workers unemployed immediately without pay or pension. Wanna talk about brutal, during Covid lockdown how many lost their jobs and lives simply to cheat in the election.. too cruel and what DJT did is NOTHING compared to what we all had to go through.
So sticking up for some who chose those jobs can’t really gain my sympathy, sorry.. it’s too painful, especially thinking about the homeless and the unfair treatment by FEMA during Hurricane Helene
You've got a good rationale. I only disagree with them knowing. There's no way they know who was hired in the 200K. I for fact know that nearly two dozen needed (and previously unfilled positions) were finally filled at the MARC in a red state, and these people are now simply axed. I am skeptical that there was due diligence, but I have no sauce and could be wrong.
I think that most government agencies should be shut down completely. Sorry, with all the people that lost their jobs, businesses, and lives because of government agencies...i have ZERO sympathy or empathy for them.
You make it sound like every fed employee was in on it.
They are doing it right that way they can hire qualified people. If these as you say are the last hired my guess is democrats pulling a fast one by making sure they have enough of their scum inside.
Doge is doing great so please be on their side. When you are done send them to my country Canada.
You must not understand the firing of everyone who was probationary. I know a top level scientist at the Meat animal research center who was recently hired and who had started amazing research but who was terminated because of this. We are cutting talent without any thought.
Fortunately or unfortunately, your and their feelings no longer matter. If you have ever run a successful business (I have, many times) as soon as you start worrying about people’s feelings, you’re done. While it is always nice to employ happy people, they are only happy if you stay in business and none of them would quit of their own volition to help the company. It’s lonely at the top and if you can’t make the tough decisions you’re in the wrong place.
Hey, if they in fact a good employee. They can reapply for one of the new openings. The rest can pound sand.
I actually still don’t trust Elon.
In my view.
Elon’s obsession with efficiency means no humans involved.
I think Elon sees people as useless and would like AI and Robots to be that efficient arm.
This crash and burn approach will also change the culture of private companies.
They also will follow suit and start to get rid of people out of no where.
I actually think this opens up the universal basic income system.
We don’t need everyone to think like Elon who doesn’t have the best social skills to begin with.
Good point...sometimes it is more important what is not seen ...always question...why...and there are so many whys...
I share those same thoughts. But I truly belueve it's inevitable with or without Elon. Just recently the CEO of Blackrock, Fink, said that countries that are actively deporting immigrants are gonna be much better off because in the very near future there would not be a need for their services and you will just be left with the burden of supporting them. I'm sure this sentiment isn't just directed at immigrants.
I have heard many top ceos talking about the inevitability of drastic reductions of staff due to " improvements in technology". And I believe most recently the dock workers strike and writers strike focused on concerns of AI and automation effecting job security.
Something BIG is on the horizon. People better wrap their heads around it because it's coming no matter how much we howl at the moon.
I agree:
I am a software engineer so I know the deal. We just have to question how much power we give Elon to begin with.
No one says they’re bad. DC has 93% Democrat voters. We all have lost jobs. They simply lost their jobs. We’ve lost jobs & livelihoods during COVID. OTHER good people lost homes & livelihoods in these UNNATURAL disasters. Many of these “good” people were insulated from all the crap the deep state implemented. They just lost their jobs. There are plenty of jobs in the private sector.
They were not all in DC. Not even sure what percent were. We have no idea if these roles were needed to be filled. I know of many that were, so I think it was warranted to take a different approach.
It is Bobby who revealed that it is a C_A front. It is a matter of course that the minions were not all in DC. They are throughout the world creating their special brand of havoc! They are throughout the US, they will be able to find jobs in the private sector and join the rest of us.
Maybe some. But I know of 17 at the meat animal research center who were hired to do science and related jobs that improve our food supply. They were simply fired to shrink the numbers.
I disagree. All those people we obviously hired without need. People seen it as a gravy train and in fact it is one. Waste is waste and we can't afford to have waste for one second longer than necessary. This is a bandaid that needs ripped off and ripped of fast.
I wonder if the USA is in big financial trouble (we’ve heard that) so maybe they have to get the money quick before everything crashes. We’ve been told they can only retire 10,000/month because the records are in an underground unit. The recent hires may be online or have a fewer files to access so if the bottom line is what is important then this makes sense.
You might be on to something. I would hope they could spin that, though, and blame FJB.
Why not? If you put your preferred pronouns on your government email it shows you are complicit in a mental health disorder and are no longer qualified due to brainwashing and ideologies. That’s why not