I'm glad DJT is finally highlighting this gasoline price gouging ...I noticed this a while ago and got criticism from some on here that felt compelled to explain 'supply vs. demand' to me🙄 Edit to add: I did need more education on this ...thanks to u/killerspacerobot people read on 😊
I got a doctoral-level schooling 😂 by a freaking 40 yr. skilled, systems engineer! Gracious to appreciate quality people on here. ❤️ My name is RaggedyBritches - I'm not a killerspacerobot 😂 Love this place, I do.
The cost (not price) of gasoline depends on two components: (1) the cost of petroleum, and (2) the cost of refining. Only the cost of petroleum has reduced. Price can drop, at best, only with the resulting total cost. And as the cost of petroleum drops further, it will have less effect on the total cost, and thus the price.
I feel smarter for reading your comment.. ❤️ So, the last sentence...Do you mean, cost of this petroleum must radically drop even further to have an effect on total cost - since the refining cost is still limited by the lack / number of working refineries? Or do you mean that too low a cost of petroleum is just as bad as too high a cost?
Ok, next issue I have....WHAT HAS VENEZUELA done to help or hinder the prices? I believe that the oil companies are keeping prices high to make us pay for their rebuilding the dilapidated Venezuelan Petro/refinery infrastructure. Because that is what global corps do.
Also, Hegseth is lobbying Capitol Hill for more money ($85b yesterday; $200b in March) because of Iran war ...I imagine aviation fuel is high. Different contents or ratios of fuel? Bottom line is either our War Dept. or the private oil companies will pass on the eventual "prices" to us, the end consumer.
Thanks for engaging, I 'm only mussing, w/o field knowledge.
No, the drop in the price of raw material will always help...but as it drops, its ability to affect the pump price diminishes, as the price begins to be dominated by other costs. In other words, if the price of crude oil drops in half, don't expect the pump price to drop as much.
Pricing is always what the market can bear. When someone finds its internal or raw materials costs have gone down, they have an incentive to INCREASE MARKET SHARE by lowering prices. This is what caused the formation of OPEC in the first place, as a restraint on an all-out "gas war" among oil producing countries. These market movements may take some time before business management concludes it would be a wise step.
As I understand it, both U.S. and Venezuelan production has compensated partly for the hiccup in Persian Gulf exports. Maybe also Russian oil, now that it is no longer encumbered by sanctions.
I don't think Pentagon use is at all large compared to the world market, and any extra being used for the Iran situation is only a small adjustment to that. I also get the idea that Europe is going on an austerity program (out of necessity). Remember, we had Gulf Wars I and II and the Afghanistan nation building going on for decades, and nobody thought to wonder, "Gee...what is this doing to the price of gasoline?"
Just remember that even the most vile corporations are driven by economics, and the relevant metric is NOT profit/gallon, it is (market share x profit/gallon). Market share is inversely related to price (profit)/gallon. They can unilaterally double their price at the pump...and sell nothing. So, don't get seduced by the idea that they have impunity to price level.
Nah. Just a 40-year systems engineer. An economy is only a complex system with lots of cause and effect relationships. The basic laws of economy prevail, supply and demand being the big one. It explains inflation exactly as the ratio between available money and available goods & services. When government throws a big bucket of money into the economy (stimulus!), a big rise in prices is inevitable because the "stimulus" does nothing to increase supply (crestfallen suckers).
It also explains why Trump's tariff's work when everyone says they shouldn't. All goods offered for sale as imports have a price consisting of (cost + profit). The "conventional" wisdom holds that if you apply a tariff, it will raise the cost of a good. But that makes sense only if there is NO PROFIT to begin with. If there is any profit, the importer must make a calculation of how much of the tariff should be paid by a price increase and how much by a profit decrease. Add into this that any price increase will shrink their market share (why they are importing in the first place). And---here's the big one---What if the profit is huge to begin with? Think of Chinese goods, made by pseudo-slave labor in a weak economy, with paltry cost, being sold to wealthy Westerners at lower cost than Western product, but far, far above the Chinese cost of manufacture. In that case, it makes sense for the importer to shrug, eat the tariff, and preserve his market share while still making a good profit. I don't hear that Walmart is going out of business!
As for the corporations, they may do a lot of things we don't like, but they never jeopardize their profitability (except when they make monumentally stupid strategic decisions---think Jaguar---but are generally aware of the economics of their situation).
I have to vent. I'm a Jaguar owner. Wonderful car to drive. So, the big brass hired some bald monkey with a lust for bananas and they dreamed up this wonderful strategy: "We have a great name and a loyal customer base---but we are going to abandon everything that makes a Jaguar a Jaguar and discard our customer base altogether---because we are going to slug it out with Bentley and Rolls Royce for a piece of a very small market share, with vehicles that will be all-electric ("chariots of fire"), and styling like a bar of soap." In other words, their strategy is to shoot themselves in the nuts, then arise from the dead in order to appeal to a very tiny market consisting of wealthy weirdos. Sir William Lyons must be reliving his death agonies in the grave.
Goodness gracious !! 🤓 I'm humbled by your thoughtful indulgence to my surface-level understanding of the supply /demand ratio as related to our fuel inflationary issues. I do think we're in a strange capitalist space due to different global factors. Also, I'm sorry for your Jaguar betrayal - of which I commiserate. Broke my heart when they did that too. I grew up loving the style of that XK - E type sports coupe ❤️
I hope my explanation was clear enough. If it was, all you need to do is break down the problem into simple pieces and follow the applicable economic law. This isn't rocket science (which I should know, since I am a rocket scientist) and humanity has been using markets since time immemorial. Don't be afraid to go "Hmmmmmm...now how does that work?" It amazes me how some people can be full of book learning and they are never able to think their way through to a conclusion. They just repeat dogma.
I had a 2001 XK8 convertible, but as a result of a 2021 break-in, which damaged the driver's door keylock (the only keylock), for which no replacement could be found worldwide (hard to believe, but there it was), the vehicle had to be totaled for insurance purposes. A fond but sad memory. I now have a 2019 Jaguar F-Pace, which is nice, but not at all the same as a grand touring car. I thought at one time they could make a great BMW beater by offering a convertible XE model, alas. Their entire regular car line just withered away. The XF station wagon was a superb vehicle. The XJ was heavenly. (The F-type was supposed to replace the XK models, but in driving one, I found the seat was too hard and the cockpit too tight. It was a sports car, not a GT.)
He further stated:: “I have instructed the DOJ to immediately start looking into this. Gasoline prices better start going down a lot faster than what I’m seeing! President DJT👍👍🇺🇸
Yes and don’t forget wage theft. Same thing with companies now giving workers the workload of 3-4 people for the price of one person in the 1980s, relative to housing prices and cost of living
I’m not eligible for overtime, but when I do have to work longer it’s ‘flex’ (even though I’m not eligible for flextime either) - but it does mean I can take time off without having to submit leave.
Finally, I said this months ago when they raised prices overnight after a big jump in oil the day before. If he calls for an investigation, you will see prices drop immediately.
I was happy when my local station went under $6 by going all the way down to $5.95! But they are closed on Tues and my tank was empty, so I had to pay (well) over $6 at the tourist-trap station instead. [Location: Behind Enemy Lines in WA state]
Down the coast from you in Commiefornia and I was thinking this exact thing yesterday, when are we going to see our prices drop to match the real reductions in oil prices? Still hovering around $6 in N CA
I'm glad I don't live there. Gas has never been as high as $5 a gallon here in northeastern NC. It's in the neighborhood of $3.50 at most places, but I get a 5 cent discount at some of those places.
Don't expect prices to drop significantly, if at all. As I have heard it, about $2.50 of the Washington pump price is due to Gov. Inslee's "green" surcharge. The actual cost of the petroleum is a surprisingly small portion of the price, and as it gets lower, it will become an even smaller portion. We are paying for the privilege of pulling a pump handle off a pump.
Right. Kinda doomed over here. I watched a documentary about Mt. St. Helens the other day and they showed clips of Dixie Lee Ray. Oh, my, what a different state this was back then.
I paid $2.93 yesterday at a WalMart in East Texas. I do have WalMart+, so I get a 10c per gallon discount at WalMart and Murphys gas stations (as well as some Exxons) so the advertised price was actually $3.03. Good benefit, but the Exxon part doesn't really matter because they are always more than 10C higher anyway.
Oil is under 70 a barrel today yet gas prices in my area of Michigan are at their highest since this all began. They are sitting between 4.09 and 4.29 per gallon. They have not moved from this level since oil prices began dropping.
Gas prices actually should be different prices at different stations because of differing costs of doing business. When every place in town is the same, right to the penny, that's when you know there is collusion. That's how it used to be in my home town back in the 70s and 80s. If Albert's Etna station changed, every other place in town matched him.
Prices should vary some because of the differences in rent, electricity, labor, and many other things. If a gas place accepts plastic, they have to charge that merchant fee on top of everything else. We have one Indian station that only takes cash, and they are a few cents cheaper than everyone else.
I have friends who can't get it through their heads that prices vary based on cost of doing business as well as wholesale costs. They don't seem to notice that groceries vary from store to store, hardware varies from store to store, and restaurant food varies from place to place. They fail in logic completely.
Are they free-standing pumps with no building present? Do they all get their gasoline from the very same distributor? If there is a building, the cost of doing business is different from location to location. If they are getting gas from different distributors, they have different deals. Some locations get better prices from the distributors. I know of a place called Choco-Mart in Chocowinity, NC that actually quit selling gas for a few months a few years ago, because his distributor was wholesaling gas for more than what bigger stations were retailing gas for. There was no way he could sell gas for less than he paid for it.
There are reasons, even though most people can't conceive it.
EVERY one of them has buildings. They all have a cost of doing business. There is NO reason a Chevron station in Meridian, MS is 40 cents a gallon cheaper than a Chevron station where I live on 28 miles away. The same as Walmart. The Walmart where I am is a small Walmart with a Murphey station selling at 3.42 and the Walmart in Meridian is 3.07. The only difference is 38 miles and the competition is higher in Meridian.
38 miles is a big difference in supply and demand. Ever heard of that? Greenville, NC has higher gas prices than surrounding areas because it's a college town, and there's a lot more demand. There are gas places on almost every corner every place I've been, so there is plenty of competition everywhere.
Also, distributors give better deals to retailers with more locations and higher gas sales. People think a few pennies is a big deal, mainly because it used to be when gas was just 47.9 a gallon. Now it's less difference than the price of beans between different supermarkets. People seem to apply different rules to gasoline for some reason.
I do recall oil refineries in the US being sabotaged with manmade fires, hurricanes and tornados (OKLAHOMA I think)..so I do realize time to repair. Still 😡 angry. Send national guards to guard these facilities from our Int'l/domestic terrorists and illegal aliens..I still contend inflated gas/diesel is NOT solely due to lack of refineries.
I often remind myself that a lot of fraudulent revenue streams have been cut off, so I'm sure the criminal cabal is feverishly searching for other ways to keep their grift machines running.
My husband was pointing this out last week. He is borderline thinking the Iran MOU was giving too much to Iran. He listens to the fake news too much unfortunately.
Prices haven't fallen much on anything since the greedy got a taste of high profit during Covid.
I'm glad DJT is finally highlighting this gasoline price gouging ...I noticed this a while ago and got criticism from some on here that felt compelled to explain 'supply vs. demand' to me🙄 Edit to add: I did need more education on this ...thanks to u/killerspacerobot people read on 😊
And its not just the gas. All prices moved higher due to higher oil prices but nothing at all has dropped.
I got a doctoral-level schooling 😂 by a freaking 40 yr. skilled, systems engineer! Gracious to appreciate quality people on here. ❤️ My name is RaggedyBritches - I'm not a killerspacerobot 😂 Love this place, I do.
The cost (not price) of gasoline depends on two components: (1) the cost of petroleum, and (2) the cost of refining. Only the cost of petroleum has reduced. Price can drop, at best, only with the resulting total cost. And as the cost of petroleum drops further, it will have less effect on the total cost, and thus the price.
I feel smarter for reading your comment.. ❤️ So, the last sentence...Do you mean, cost of this petroleum must radically drop even further to have an effect on total cost - since the refining cost is still limited by the lack / number of working refineries? Or do you mean that too low a cost of petroleum is just as bad as too high a cost? Ok, next issue I have....WHAT HAS VENEZUELA done to help or hinder the prices? I believe that the oil companies are keeping prices high to make us pay for their rebuilding the dilapidated Venezuelan Petro/refinery infrastructure. Because that is what global corps do. Also, Hegseth is lobbying Capitol Hill for more money ($85b yesterday; $200b in March) because of Iran war ...I imagine aviation fuel is high. Different contents or ratios of fuel? Bottom line is either our War Dept. or the private oil companies will pass on the eventual "prices" to us, the end consumer. Thanks for engaging, I 'm only mussing, w/o field knowledge.
No, the drop in the price of raw material will always help...but as it drops, its ability to affect the pump price diminishes, as the price begins to be dominated by other costs. In other words, if the price of crude oil drops in half, don't expect the pump price to drop as much.
Pricing is always what the market can bear. When someone finds its internal or raw materials costs have gone down, they have an incentive to INCREASE MARKET SHARE by lowering prices. This is what caused the formation of OPEC in the first place, as a restraint on an all-out "gas war" among oil producing countries. These market movements may take some time before business management concludes it would be a wise step.
As I understand it, both U.S. and Venezuelan production has compensated partly for the hiccup in Persian Gulf exports. Maybe also Russian oil, now that it is no longer encumbered by sanctions.
I don't think Pentagon use is at all large compared to the world market, and any extra being used for the Iran situation is only a small adjustment to that. I also get the idea that Europe is going on an austerity program (out of necessity). Remember, we had Gulf Wars I and II and the Afghanistan nation building going on for decades, and nobody thought to wonder, "Gee...what is this doing to the price of gasoline?"
Just remember that even the most vile corporations are driven by economics, and the relevant metric is NOT profit/gallon, it is (market share x profit/gallon). Market share is inversely related to price (profit)/gallon. They can unilaterally double their price at the pump...and sell nothing. So, don't get seduced by the idea that they have impunity to price level.
Ok, tell me the truth... you're a macroEcon professor aren't you? 🤩 Thank you! On your last sentence, ...I will try to keep my cynicism in check. Ha.
Nah. Just a 40-year systems engineer. An economy is only a complex system with lots of cause and effect relationships. The basic laws of economy prevail, supply and demand being the big one. It explains inflation exactly as the ratio between available money and available goods & services. When government throws a big bucket of money into the economy (stimulus!), a big rise in prices is inevitable because the "stimulus" does nothing to increase supply (crestfallen suckers).
It also explains why Trump's tariff's work when everyone says they shouldn't. All goods offered for sale as imports have a price consisting of (cost + profit). The "conventional" wisdom holds that if you apply a tariff, it will raise the cost of a good. But that makes sense only if there is NO PROFIT to begin with. If there is any profit, the importer must make a calculation of how much of the tariff should be paid by a price increase and how much by a profit decrease. Add into this that any price increase will shrink their market share (why they are importing in the first place). And---here's the big one---What if the profit is huge to begin with? Think of Chinese goods, made by pseudo-slave labor in a weak economy, with paltry cost, being sold to wealthy Westerners at lower cost than Western product, but far, far above the Chinese cost of manufacture. In that case, it makes sense for the importer to shrug, eat the tariff, and preserve his market share while still making a good profit. I don't hear that Walmart is going out of business!
As for the corporations, they may do a lot of things we don't like, but they never jeopardize their profitability (except when they make monumentally stupid strategic decisions---think Jaguar---but are generally aware of the economics of their situation).
I have to vent. I'm a Jaguar owner. Wonderful car to drive. So, the big brass hired some bald monkey with a lust for bananas and they dreamed up this wonderful strategy: "We have a great name and a loyal customer base---but we are going to abandon everything that makes a Jaguar a Jaguar and discard our customer base altogether---because we are going to slug it out with Bentley and Rolls Royce for a piece of a very small market share, with vehicles that will be all-electric ("chariots of fire"), and styling like a bar of soap." In other words, their strategy is to shoot themselves in the nuts, then arise from the dead in order to appeal to a very tiny market consisting of wealthy weirdos. Sir William Lyons must be reliving his death agonies in the grave.
Goodness gracious !! 🤓 I'm humbled by your thoughtful indulgence to my surface-level understanding of the supply /demand ratio as related to our fuel inflationary issues. I do think we're in a strange capitalist space due to different global factors. Also, I'm sorry for your Jaguar betrayal - of which I commiserate. Broke my heart when they did that too. I grew up loving the style of that XK - E type sports coupe ❤️
I hope my explanation was clear enough. If it was, all you need to do is break down the problem into simple pieces and follow the applicable economic law. This isn't rocket science (which I should know, since I am a rocket scientist) and humanity has been using markets since time immemorial. Don't be afraid to go "Hmmmmmm...now how does that work?" It amazes me how some people can be full of book learning and they are never able to think their way through to a conclusion. They just repeat dogma.
I had a 2001 XK8 convertible, but as a result of a 2021 break-in, which damaged the driver's door keylock (the only keylock), for which no replacement could be found worldwide (hard to believe, but there it was), the vehicle had to be totaled for insurance purposes. A fond but sad memory. I now have a 2019 Jaguar F-Pace, which is nice, but not at all the same as a grand touring car. I thought at one time they could make a great BMW beater by offering a convertible XE model, alas. Their entire regular car line just withered away. The XF station wagon was a superb vehicle. The XJ was heavenly. (The F-type was supposed to replace the XK models, but in driving one, I found the seat was too hard and the cockpit too tight. It was a sports car, not a GT.)
He further stated:: “I have instructed the DOJ to immediately start looking into this. Gasoline prices better start going down a lot faster than what I’m seeing! President DJT👍👍🇺🇸
I said this months ago. We already paid the price when it was high, why would they ever lower it
And that applies to everything else as well... food, energy, rent, clothes, vehicle prices, home prices... everything. Literally everything.
Yes and don’t forget wage theft. Same thing with companies now giving workers the workload of 3-4 people for the price of one person in the 1980s, relative to housing prices and cost of living
Oh so im not the only one experiencing that BS. 😅
And theyre stingy about overtime too. 😒
I’m not eligible for overtime, but when I do have to work longer it’s ‘flex’ (even though I’m not eligible for flextime either) - but it does mean I can take time off without having to submit leave.
Including taxes and illegal fees that government agencies add.
And the fuel surcharges by usps, FedEx, ups. Fucking criminal.
Yep
From what I’ve seen there are a lot of indians running these franchises, so expect to be robbed.
Maybe trade poo for a .10 discount?
Finally, I said this months ago when they raised prices overnight after a big jump in oil the day before. If he calls for an investigation, you will see prices drop immediately.
I was happy when my local station went under $6 by going all the way down to $5.95! But they are closed on Tues and my tank was empty, so I had to pay (well) over $6 at the tourist-trap station instead. [Location: Behind Enemy Lines in WA state]
Down the coast from you in Commiefornia and I was thinking this exact thing yesterday, when are we going to see our prices drop to match the real reductions in oil prices? Still hovering around $6 in N CA
I'm glad I don't live there. Gas has never been as high as $5 a gallon here in northeastern NC. It's in the neighborhood of $3.50 at most places, but I get a 5 cent discount at some of those places.
Don't expect prices to drop significantly, if at all. As I have heard it, about $2.50 of the Washington pump price is due to Gov. Inslee's "green" surcharge. The actual cost of the petroleum is a surprisingly small portion of the price, and as it gets lower, it will become an even smaller portion. We are paying for the privilege of pulling a pump handle off a pump.
Right. Kinda doomed over here. I watched a documentary about Mt. St. Helens the other day and they showed clips of Dixie Lee Ray. Oh, my, what a different state this was back then.
It’s currently $3.15 for regular gas in my area at a particular station, all other stations will be slightly higher.
$4.6999 at the moment here
3.99 9/10ths here
$3.89 in central Mass.
Just checked again today and the price actually just went UP from $3.15 yesterday evening to $3.25
Why do they allow gas stations to post nine tenths of a cent on their prices and no one else?
I paid $2.93 yesterday at a WalMart in East Texas. I do have WalMart+, so I get a 10c per gallon discount at WalMart and Murphys gas stations (as well as some Exxons) so the advertised price was actually $3.03. Good benefit, but the Exxon part doesn't really matter because they are always more than 10C higher anyway.
https://files.catbox.moe/8x6oux.jpg
I just checked mine again today and the price actually just went UP from $3.15 yesterday evening to $3.25
$4.20 in Michigan.
$5.399 here in California. Down from $5.999 a week ago.
Not surprised by how high it is in Cali. I feel for ya!
Thank you. I'll take all the sympathy I can get.
Here’s Trump’s TS post - https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/116803130747198847
Ive got an idea. As long as we pay for the safe delivery of their oil we get a fifty percent discount. Then make taxing fuel illegal.
Oil is under 70 a barrel today yet gas prices in my area of Michigan are at their highest since this all began. They are sitting between 4.09 and 4.29 per gallon. They have not moved from this level since oil prices began dropping.
These evildoers refuse to do it, they are enriching themselves, all over the place the prices are up but salaries are way lower due to the illegals.
"gouged" starts with "go", continues with "uge", and ends with a "d".
I love this man
We will know the Massie crowd is desperate if they decide to make a “principled stand” against Trump “interfering in private markets” over this.
When you see gas prices from 3.19 a gal to 3.79 a gallon in a 20 mile radius, ya know you are getting screwed but that is not some big revelation.
Gas prices actually should be different prices at different stations because of differing costs of doing business. When every place in town is the same, right to the penny, that's when you know there is collusion. That's how it used to be in my home town back in the 70s and 80s. If Albert's Etna station changed, every other place in town matched him.
Prices should vary some because of the differences in rent, electricity, labor, and many other things. If a gas place accepts plastic, they have to charge that merchant fee on top of everything else. We have one Indian station that only takes cash, and they are a few cents cheaper than everyone else.
I have friends who can't get it through their heads that prices vary based on cost of doing business as well as wholesale costs. They don't seem to notice that groceries vary from store to store, hardware varies from store to store, and restaurant food varies from place to place. They fail in logic completely.
All we have around here is self serve gas stations. There is no reason for it to be 50 cents a gallon different.
Are they free-standing pumps with no building present? Do they all get their gasoline from the very same distributor? If there is a building, the cost of doing business is different from location to location. If they are getting gas from different distributors, they have different deals. Some locations get better prices from the distributors. I know of a place called Choco-Mart in Chocowinity, NC that actually quit selling gas for a few months a few years ago, because his distributor was wholesaling gas for more than what bigger stations were retailing gas for. There was no way he could sell gas for less than he paid for it.
There are reasons, even though most people can't conceive it.
EVERY one of them has buildings. They all have a cost of doing business. There is NO reason a Chevron station in Meridian, MS is 40 cents a gallon cheaper than a Chevron station where I live on 28 miles away. The same as Walmart. The Walmart where I am is a small Walmart with a Murphey station selling at 3.42 and the Walmart in Meridian is 3.07. The only difference is 38 miles and the competition is higher in Meridian.
38 miles is a big difference in supply and demand. Ever heard of that? Greenville, NC has higher gas prices than surrounding areas because it's a college town, and there's a lot more demand. There are gas places on almost every corner every place I've been, so there is plenty of competition everywhere.
Also, distributors give better deals to retailers with more locations and higher gas sales. People think a few pennies is a big deal, mainly because it used to be when gas was just 47.9 a gallon. Now it's less difference than the price of beans between different supermarkets. People seem to apply different rules to gasoline for some reason.
I kind of expected this. Good for the Pres for weighing in for us. Actually in Cali prices went from $5.69 down to $5.59.
Why would Blackrock/Rothschild help Trump? Trump just took away their oil empire.
Big Oil's bread was buttered by the Deep State, so they don't play on our team.
If they like socialists so much, then the Boss should start the process of Government ownership
I think we know why, oil refineries issues, and they are not all owned by the major oil companies
I do recall oil refineries in the US being sabotaged with manmade fires, hurricanes and tornados (OKLAHOMA I think)..so I do realize time to repair. Still 😡 angry. Send national guards to guard these facilities from our Int'l/domestic terrorists and illegal aliens..I still contend inflated gas/diesel is NOT solely due to lack of refineries.
sounds like an important thing, guard the facilities, and since the Pres. points at the oil companies, there must be something there
I often remind myself that a lot of fraudulent revenue streams have been cut off, so I'm sure the criminal cabal is feverishly searching for other ways to keep their grift machines running.
My husband was pointing this out last week. He is borderline thinking the Iran MOU was giving too much to Iran. He listens to the fake news too much unfortunately.